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Post by bobdavis on May 7, 2009 18:49:33 GMT -8
I'm planning to take the existing Gold Line to Metro HQ next Thursday--we'll see if the trains clear out and then keep going over the new bridge.
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Post by wad on May 8, 2009 4:19:13 GMT -8
Methinks that the Mayor was a bit hasty with his pushing for a date of opening. It'll open when it's safe, and not a day earlier. Villaraigosa was probably pushing for the opening date to be the same as the normally scheduled bus shake-up in June (usually the second week). I'd be stunned if that was why he had announced the date.
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Post by kenalpern on May 8, 2009 6:08:29 GMT -8
At this point, it's really impossible to know why he chose that date...but hey, on another level it's not really that big a deal. Frankly, it's not like he smashed the progress of mass transit like Rep. Waxman and Sup. Yaroslavsky did at another time in their political lives, and it's not like his misstatement of the opening date will hurt anyone.
So he was wrong? Again, it's no big deal. There ARE certain planning and other policies that the Mayor and I fundamentally disagree with, but this is the same guy who fought to reverse the financial and political inertia for mass transit that had plagued the City and County of L.A. for a generation...and we're nailing him for being a bit hasty about the opening date of a long-overdue line to serve the Eastside?
Perhaps he wanted a quick boost to his political standing, or he's just excited about a new extension of the current Gold Line that means so much to him (and which his son used every day). I think we're making a mountain out of a molehill, and if we make too big an issue of this then it reflects poorly on us, not the Mayor.
The Eastside Gold Line WILL start this year, even if it's as ridiculously late as September, October or November (which I highly doubt)! That's really all that matters, and any connecting Downtown Connector, Expo Line and Eastside Extension will be in large part thanks to our current Mayor's efforts.
Mayor Villaraigosa has been the best transit/transportation mayor since Mayor Bradley, whether we agree with him on this or any other issue.
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Post by metrocenter on May 8, 2009 7:53:08 GMT -8
^ Agreed Ken. Big picture: the Eastside Line will open this year, hopefully in the summer. If it's June, so much the better.
BTW, I've been asked by many people how to justify the expense of a line that runs from East L.A. to Union Station. They ask "L.A. County is huge: what percentage of those people are traveling between Union Station and East L.A.?" (The same question has also come up for every other LRT line, BTW.) IMO, this kind of question is inspired by a fundamental misunderstanding of how transit systems work.
I see the Eastside Line not just as a new LRT line but as an enhancement to the Metro Rail system as a whole. It is in this context that the true value of the line is realized. This new "extension" is actually a system extension. It will add a new end-node to the system, making seven end-nodes altogether (Long Beach, Norwalk, Redondo Beach, Mid-Wilshire, North Hollywood, Pasadena, East L.A.).
El "premio del oro", ultimately, is the Downtown Connector. Once this comes online, L.A.'s two LRT systems will finally be unified.
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Post by erict on May 8, 2009 10:50:12 GMT -8
I agree with that - the DTC is one of the most important project as far as connecting our rail lines and getting East LA line and Expo, Pasadena and Long Beach downtown. I'm sure the Eastsiders will see the importance once the solid-gold line is up and running, and press their politicians (I won't mention names) to get it going.
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Post by James Fujita on May 8, 2009 11:04:31 GMT -8
the mayor may be a tad too overenthusiatic in his pronouncements, but there's no real harm in that. imagine the uproar if he had complained about the Gold Line extension. do test trains run on the weekends? that's the only time when I'm able to watch the progress.... ^ Agreed Ken. Big picture: the Eastside Line will open this year, hopefully in the summer. If it's June, so much the better. BTW, I've been asked by many people how to justify the expense of a line that runs from East L.A. to Union Station. They ask "L.A. County is huge: what percentage of those people are traveling between Union Station and East L.A.?" (The same question has also come up for every other LRT line, BTW.) IMO, this kind of question is inspired by a fundamental misunderstanding of how transit systems work. I see the Eastside Line not just as a new LRT line but as an enhancement to the Metro Rail system as a whole. you're right about the Eastside line being an enhancement to the whole system. every new mile has the potential to add value to the overall rail system, although some miles (Green Line to LAX, Downtown Connector) would have more added value than others. however, I'm not sure if it's a fundamental misunderstanding or a snarky attempt at building up anti-rail sentiment. I see the same sort of comments regarding high-speed rail: take two unlikely station pairs between L.A. and San Francisco (say, from Bakersfield to Merced) and complain about them. I sometimes suspect that the more blatantly stupid comments are deliberate - "if you can't convince 'em, confuse 'em" is a time-honored practice in politics. don't worry about the off-the-wall comments, and personally I hope the mayor is right!
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Post by kenalpern on May 8, 2009 11:05:46 GMT -8
I agree with the two posts above. When the DTC opens up, the value of these nonconnecting lines will just absolutely skyrocket.
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Post by Jason Saunders on May 8, 2009 15:40:49 GMT -8
My favorite analogy is that of the telephone. The telephone is only as useful as there are people to call.
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Post by LAofAnaheim on May 8, 2009 19:22:51 GMT -8
The car isn't as useful unless if there are parking spots....(soak that one in and understand now why we have traffic).
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Post by bobdavis on May 14, 2009 17:01:13 GMT -8
I was at Union Station today and noticed that the wheel blocks are in place and the red signs are up. Also noted that what I presume are trolley power feeder cables near the south end of the platform still haven't been connected. I was hoping to watch to train I took from Pasadena go soaring over the (congested) Santa Ana Fwy., but it stopped and started loading Pasadena-bound passengers. If it takes six weeks of test runs on a schedule before the line is opened for revenue passengers, June is unlikely. Well, we've waited 46 years to see electric cars return to First St., another two or three months won't make that much difference.
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Post by Jason Saunders on May 14, 2009 18:06:29 GMT -8
I rode my bicycle on Sunday from just east of La Ciniega/Expo ROW along the alignment until the blue Line goes underground then rod over to Alvarado and East side Line and rode it to Beverly and Atlantic. I didn't see much visible change on Expo but East side seemed pretty far along. The one interesting thing I noticed was that appeared to be very little opportunity for vegetation. I know foliage will be one of the very last things to go in So I'm kind of curious how "hard" the line will be.
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snuffy
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Post by snuffy on May 14, 2009 18:27:49 GMT -8
The two car test train was running this afternoon around 3PM at Little Tokyo & 1 ST street bridge area.
Snuffy
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Post by Jason Saunders on May 14, 2009 20:13:51 GMT -8
I really like the design aesthetically of that train. Very art deco.
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Post by masonite on May 14, 2009 21:04:55 GMT -8
If I had to guess, I think we'll see the real opening of the Eastside sometime in July. Still ahead of the original schedule and under budget, which is something to celebrate.
I'd like to see Expo open to Crenshaw in the Summer of 2010, but it looks like Fall is more likely, which is too bad since it would be good to have open by the start of SC football season and the fall semester. It would be good to get the recovery schedule focused on the first half of the line to get it going earlier.
As far as the map of Metro at 2035, I'd hope we could get the Green Line connection to the HSR and Metrolink station in Norwalk. Also, I would add something on the Harbor Sub and the Valley to West LA line. Personally, I think this is a more realistic map for say 2024 or so, but we'll see. We have a lot of problems such as potential inflation and reduced sales taxes due to the slow economy. The only saving grace may be a large federal infusion of dollars.
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Post by kenalpern on May 14, 2009 21:18:45 GMT -8
Actually, the slow economy has allowed materials and labor costs to plummet--and bids are waaaaaaaaaaay down. Very good, and perhaps a time for Metro to really move some projects along.
Ya know, it just hit me during your post, masonite, that the best way for the moribund Southeast Cities to revisit the Green Line extension to Norwalk (and all the Green Line extensions, as well as the Harbor Sub) is that CAHSR becoming reality. Everyone will suddenly want to connect to it.
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Post by Justin Walker on May 14, 2009 22:52:29 GMT -8
The two car test train was running this afternoon around 3PM at Little Tokyo & 1 ST street bridge area. At 2:02 in the video, it's amazing how quickly the train accelerates after it exits the curve onto 1st Street.
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Post by masonite on May 14, 2009 23:41:25 GMT -8
Actually, the slow economy has allowed materials and labor costs to plummet--and bids are waaaaaaaaaaay down. Very good, and perhaps a time for Metro to really move some projects along. Ya know, it just hit me during your post, masonite, that the best way for the moribund Southeast Cities to revisit the Green Line extension to Norwalk (and all the Green Line extensions, as well as the Harbor Sub) is that CAHSR becoming reality. Everyone will suddenly want to connect to it. CAHSR is huge for local transit too and not just a SF to LA line as it is often described and people can't forget that. While we can't say for sure it will be here by 2020 or so, it is increasingly looking like it just might. Not having the Green Line connection here is bad enough considering the potential 30 minute Metrolink service on this corridor, but if HSR is there it is just a must for the region. Also, I think HSR really puts the Harbor Sub higher in importance.
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Post by Justin Walker on May 15, 2009 0:43:23 GMT -8
Not having the Green Line connection here is bad enough considering the potential 30 minute Metrolink service on this corridor, but if HSR is there it is just a must for the region. Also, I think HSR really puts the Harbor Sub higher in importance. Linking the LOSSAN corridor with LAX has always been an important goal for the high-speed rail project. Before the 2005 Program-Level EIR/EIS, the following corridors were identified for study in the EIR/EIS (LA Union Station-LAX included): And here's a map from the EIR/EIS itself: They studied both sound and ridiculous alternatives for the region: - LAUS-LAX HSR service along I-10 and I-405
- LAUS-LAX HSR service along the Harbor Sub
- LAUS-LAX HSR service along I-110 and I-105
- Norwalk-LAX HSR on a retrofitted Green Line
- Standard Green Line Extensions to LAX & Norwalk
In the report, HSR was deemed unsuitable on a corridor as short as from LAUS to LAX and the corridor has been left to the regular channels of rail development. Anyways, in short, I completely agree that potential for Green Line extensions and Harbor Subdivision service is greater than ever with HSR project moving ahead.
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Post by kenalpern on May 15, 2009 5:57:56 GMT -8
Having for years contended with many folks who looked at the Harbor Subdivision and Green Line efforts as, "yeah, riiiiiiiiiight" I think we'll see some serious opinion and paradigm shifts as the Expo and Eastside rails become reality in the next two years. In five years, we'll be on our way to a host of new rails becoming reality, and there will be a focus on new holes in the rail system.
Time is on our side, here.
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snuffy
Junior Member
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Post by snuffy on May 15, 2009 18:55:03 GMT -8
And here is a video of the test train running through the 1st street bridge.
Snuffy
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Post by bobdavis on May 15, 2009 21:56:33 GMT -8
At the ERHA meeting tonight, some of the members were making unfavorable comments about the Bredas--too heavy, use too much current, etc. Looks like the power is adequate for at least one two car train. I noticed that it was running on only one track, or as a railroader would say "wrong main" in one direction. Also at the meeting, there was a report that full scale testing (having trains from Pasadena unload and then run empty to East LA on schedule) is supposed to start next week. Thanks for the video--we'll see if it's a portent of the next step coming soon.
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Post by darrell on May 15, 2009 22:14:52 GMT -8
And here is a video of the test train running through the 1st street bridge. Beautiful, Snuffy! Be sure to watch it full-screen in High Quality, it looks really good. (What resolution was your original?) Here's a screen capture of the train in front of the new high school at 1st and Mission. I've got to go take a still photo there, now that the test train gets that far, the school LAUSD had no problem building next to a light rail line.
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Post by Gokhan on May 15, 2009 23:31:07 GMT -8
Here's a screen capture of the train in front of the new high school at 1st and Mission. I've got to go take a still photo there, now that the test train gets that far, the school LAUSD had no problem building next to a light rail line. And, unlike the well-protected Expo Line, the Eastside Line has no protection at all -- no fences, no curbs -- nothing.
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snuffy
Junior Member
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Post by snuffy on May 16, 2009 5:59:23 GMT -8
darrell, thanks,
the resolution was 1024 but not HD. I just checked my other images of the test run, I found out, there's another breda train went through the tunnel that day. I was filming(distracted by) Union Pacific trains while Breda cars went into the tunnel!
Snuffy
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Post by mattapoisett on May 16, 2009 7:27:48 GMT -8
And, unlike the well-protected Expo Line, the Eastside Line has no protection at all -- no fences, no curbs -- nothing. Yes. But if you notice from the video the trollies are not exceeding 15-20 mph which is the trade-off. You can have your integrated light rail but the trollies must go really really slowly.
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Post by Gokhan on May 16, 2009 8:46:08 GMT -8
And, unlike the well-protected Expo Line, the Eastside Line has no protection at all -- no fences, no curbs -- nothing. Yes. But if you notice from the video the trollies are not exceeding 15-20 mph which is the trade-off. You can have your integrated light rail but the trollies must go really really slowly. False, as the Eastside Line trains will operate at 35 MPH, same as in the sections of the Expo Line with no crossing gates.CPUC allows 35 MPH operations in street running even without fences or barriers. With fences it's 35 + 10 = 45 MPH between the crossings and 35 MPH at crossings and with gates there is no speed limit. The only exception are pedestrian malls, where the speed limit is 20 MPH, as along Marmion Way for the Gold Line. The following table from the CPUC light-rail code details the official CPUC light-rail speed limits and operation modes:
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Post by bluelineshawn on May 16, 2009 11:28:29 GMT -8
You sure about that? What I see for non-exclusive, mixed traffic is: "Legal speed of parallel traffic, but not to exceed 35 mph." The speed limit for parallel traffic in school zones is 25 mph when children are present. I doubt that Metro will worry about children being present and will likely make the limit 25 mph all of the time although operationally 20 mph seems more likely IMO.
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Post by darrell on May 16, 2009 12:20:11 GMT -8
What I see for non-exclusive, mixed traffic is: "Legal speed of parallel traffic, but not to exceed 35 mph." The speed limit for parallel traffic in school zones is 25 mph when children are present. The category that applies to the Gold Line is (b) Semi-Exclusive (3) Street Median with 6" curb, not Mixed Traffic (trains in the same lane as traffic). But your point is relevant. The speed limit on that part of 1st Street is 30 mph, and a school zone could reduce it to 25 mph. (Vs. the speed limit on at least part of 3rd Street is 35 mph.) Although entering and exiting the station one wouldn't expect more than 25 mph anyway.
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Post by Gokhan on May 16, 2009 12:56:31 GMT -8
What I see for non-exclusive, mixed traffic is: "Legal speed of parallel traffic, but not to exceed 35 mph." The speed limit for parallel traffic in school zones is 25 mph when children are present. The category that applies to the Gold Line is (b) Semi-Exclusive (3) Street Median with 6" curb, not Mixed Traffic (trains in the same lane as traffic). But your point is relevant. The speed limit on that part of 1st Street is 30 mph, and a school zone could reduce it to 25 mph. (Vs. the speed limit on at least part of 3rd Street is 35 mph.) Although entering and exiting the station one wouldn't expect more than 25 mph anyway. The section of the Expo Line between Vermont Ave and Gramercy place, the section disputed by Fix Expo and LAUSD, is Class (b)(2): fence & curb, tracks in ballast, with no gates. The Eastside Line is Class (b)(4): no fence, no curb -- only lane marks with tracks embedded in asphalt -- but no cars are allowed on tracks through posted signs, so, no mixed operation. Obviously (b)(2) is safer than (b)(3) and (b)(3) is safer than (b)(4). So, the Expo Line is safer by two grades over the Eastside Line. Yet, LAUSD have opposed the Expo Line but not the Eastside Line. It's true that the trains would have to follow the speed limit for these alignments. The speed limit on Exposition Blvd by Foshay is always 35 MPH I believe but correct me if I'm wrong. I don't know if there is a school speed limit there or near the high school by the Eastside Line.
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Post by darrell on May 16, 2009 13:27:57 GMT -8
The Eastside Line is Class (b)(4): no fence, no curb -- only lane marks with tracks embedded in asphalt -- but no cars are allowed on tracks through posted signs, so, no mixed operation. I believe there is a curb separating the concrete-embedded rails from the street, but it has been one of the last things built. You can kind of see it in Snuffy's video. This is a blow-up of a speed limit sign on east-bound 1st Street at Clarence Street, between the Mission Street station and the tunnel portal. It clearly says "25", but I can't make out what's in the orange - is it about "school" or "construction"?
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