I think they put new ATP equipment on all Blue Line trains.
It sounds like a hardware issue. I don't know how it works exactly but it's probably something almost trivial related to electronics. I remember the pick-up coils at the junction when they were building it. Perhaps it has to do with them.
I'm sure that all of the trains now have ATS, but that's not why the trains would be incompatible with the other line. And it may be a hardware issue, but if so why does the junction work flawlessly for the blue line? I'm convinced that it's not the junction (hardware), but a software/design issue. Unless of course I'm completely wrong, in which case I would have to reconsider.
I think they put new ATP equipment on all Blue Line trains.
It sounds like a hardware issue. I don't know how it works exactly but it's probably something almost trivial related to electronics. I remember the pick-up coils at the junction when they were building it. Perhaps it has to do with them.
I'm sure that all of the trains now have ATS, but that's not why the trains would be incompatible with the other line. And it may be a hardware issue, but if so why does the junction work flawlessly for the blue line? I'm convinced that it's not the junction (hardware), but a software/design issue. Unless of course I'm completely wrong, in which case I would have to reconsider.
The old ATP equipment on the Nippon Sharyo's were replaced with new ATP equipment to be compatible with the equipment at the junction.
Why does the ATP at the junction work flawlessly for the Blue Line? It doesn't. The ATP at the junction has never been turned on yet. It's still all manual. The only times they turn it on is when they test it late at night. When they do that, it turns out that the Siemens trains do better than the Nippon Sharyo's in picking up the signal.
Of course, when you only have the Blue Line, you don't really need ATP. The only train - train interference results between the northbound Expo Line trains and the westbound or eastbound Blue Line trains. If you only ran the southbound Expo Line and westbound and eastbound Blue Line trains, you wouldn't need ATP.
• CPUC approved the grade crossing as a street running/traffic signal protected crossing
• Staff subsequently evaluated the use of grade crossing gates along with traffic preemption, but the configuration of the intersection along with limited right-of-way made the installation of gates very difficult
• LADOT was not in favor of the installation of preemptive gates
I find it hard to believe that there was not enough space to install crossing gates. Of course, LADOT always opposesthe trains.
I'm sure that all of the trains now have ATS, but that's not why the trains would be incompatible with the other line. And it may be a hardware issue, but if so why does the junction work flawlessly for the blue line? I'm convinced that it's not the junction (hardware), but a software/design issue. Unless of course I'm completely wrong, in which case I would have to reconsider.
The old ATP equipment on the Nippon Sharyo's were replaced with new ATP equipment to be compatible with the equipment at the junction.
Why does the ATP at the junction work flawlessly for the Blue Line? It doesn't. The ATP at the junction has never been turned on yet. It's still all manual. The only times they turn it on is when they test it late at night. When they do that, it turns out that the Siemens trains do better than the Nippon Sharyo's in picking up the signal.
Of course, when you only have the Blue Line, you don't really need ATP. The only train - train interference results between the northbound Expo Line trains and the westbound or eastbound Blue Line trains. If you only ran the southbound Expo Line and westbound and eastbound Blue Line trains, you wouldn't need ATP.
Maybe I'm not clear on what the issue is. Are you saying that the problems only appear with late night testing because that's when the ATP is turned on? So the Expo trains work well the rest of the time?
The old ATP equipment on the Nippon Sharyo's were replaced with new ATP equipment to be compatible with the equipment at the junction.
Why does the ATP at the junction work flawlessly for the Blue Line? It doesn't. The ATP at the junction has never been turned on yet. It's still all manual. The only times they turn it on is when they test it late at night. When they do that, it turns out that the Siemens trains do better than the Nippon Sharyo's in picking up the signal.
Of course, when you only have the Blue Line, you don't really need ATP. The only train - train interference results between the northbound Expo Line trains and the westbound or eastbound Blue Line trains. If you only ran the southbound Expo Line and westbound and eastbound Blue Line trains, you wouldn't need ATP.
Maybe I'm not clear on what the issue is. Are you saying that the problems only appear with late night testing because that's when the ATP is turned on? So the Expo trains work well the rest of the time?
You can run the junction either manually (without ATP) or automatically (with ATP). So far, the ATP (or the automatic junction) has never been turned on during the ongoing prerevenue operations except when they work on fixing the junction at wee hours. They haven't been able to fix the ATP at the junction yet, which is the reason why the automatic junction (ATP) has never been turned on during the prerevenue operations to date. All prerevenue operations through the junction have been manual so far -- meaning some human being positions the rail switches for the Expo and Blue Line trains accordingly.
Joined: Mar 2007 Gender: Male Posts: 3,990 Location: Palms, LA, CA
Re: Exposition Light Rail Line Project Development « Reply #4855 on Mar 13, 2012, 5:47pm »
This evening the hi-rail truck in Culver City was at the very west end of the tracks. There is a coil of thick orange cable on it. I don't know what it is for but there is obviously work still going on. Hopefully they will finish it on March 15 as they aimed.
[All prerevenue operations through the junction have been manual so far -- meaning some human being positions the rail switches for the Expo and Blue Line trains accordingly.
if the switch is the only thing holding up service, why not start revenue service with the switch in manual mode, and continue troubleshooting the ATP after hours?
if the switch is the only thing holding up service, why not start revenue service with the switch in manual mode, and continue troubleshooting the ATP after hours?
No, the line cannot open before it's certified to comply with all the CPUC safety requirements.
Rather than drive, ride! Ride Metro Rail, Metro bus, bicycle, vanpool, carpool, motorcycle!
Joined: Mar 2007 Gender: Male Posts: 399 Location: Near Metro Rapid 761 "station"
Re: Exposition Light Rail Line Project Development « Reply #4861 on Mar 14, 2012, 11:35am »
Wow, this thread, the most popular on this forum, started 5 years ago yesterday. At that time, Expo phase 1 barely broke ground 6 months back from that point.
« Last Edit: Mar 14, 2012, 11:36am by tonyw79sfv »
Ah! Finally, this is the real prerevenue operation.
For the Eastside extension, this phase took six weeks. This would put the opening date at the minimum on April 29. Given the complications with the Expo Line, it could be longer. Hopefully they could also finish testing the Culver City section around that time so that the line could open to Culver City in early May.
Joined: Mar 2007 Gender: Male Posts: 3,990 Location: Palms, LA, CA
Re: Exposition Light Rail Line Project Development « Reply #4864 on Mar 14, 2012, 4:46pm »
It turns out that this phase could last as long as three months, especially given the ongoing problems; therefore, do not take it as the line opening in about a month. It's basically mostly increased testing activity.
It turns out that this phase could last as long as three months, especially given the ongoing problems; therefore, do not take it as the line opening in about a month. It's basically mostly increased testing activity.
I agree. While apparent progress like this is good, unless they announce they fixed the junction problems or an actual opening date, there is no point in getting excited. I'm past the point of speculating and more in the camp of let me know when it opens.
Joined: Mar 2007 Gender: Male Posts: 3,990 Location: Palms, LA, CA
Re: Exposition Light Rail Line Project Development « Reply #4866 on Mar 14, 2012, 9:18pm »
Some Metro insiders are still saying April 15. We'll see. If they finish the Culver City Station on schedule, there is no reason not to wait until May 6 for a full opening to Culver City. It would be great if the flocks of people could ride it to Culver City on the grand-opening day.
... there is no reason not to wait until May 6 for a full opening to Culver City. It would be great if the flocks of people could ride it to Culver City on the grand-opening day.
I'll tell ya one reason: the rash of shitty press Metro will get for not yet being open (again) for the Festival of Books on April 21/22 on the USC campus.
Last year the line had already started testing and there was so much talk of what it will be like "next year when we can take the Expo line."
Well, here it is. Next year. And it's not open yet. If that line isn't open by Festival of Books, Metro's gonna have a lot of 'splanin' to do without looking like incompetent 'tards.
If they can wrangle an opening by April 15, on the other hand, the LA Times will surely lavish them with praise. If they're going to keep getting tax money for new projects, they need whatever good news they can point out to show they get things done.
Otherwise a lot of Metro management staff might be looking for work soon. And they know it.
Joined: Mar 2007 Gender: Male Posts: 3,990 Location: Palms, LA, CA
Re: Exposition Light Rail Line Project Development « Reply #4869 on Mar 15, 2012, 8:59am »
I don't think Festival of Books is that much of a big deal. Most people complained last year on the lack of food and restrooms, not lack of public transit.
I don't think Festival of Books is that much of a big deal. Most people complained last year on the lack of food and restrooms, not lack of public transit.
It doesnt matter, its all about perception.
Joe san pedro may never ride expo in his life, but hell be influenced if the headline is "expo opens to thousands visiting book festival" vs "continued delayed mean expo is a no show at popular festival"
Which headline will make him more likely to vote for a tax extension?
I am anxious to see how well the hydrophobic Expo Line performs this weekend, judging by past performance I anticipate problems.
I'm expecting something like this, only add some rain to make it even worse:
Good one. I was thinking that people who ran that pantograph there must be total idiots but it is saying that it was done as a safety demonstration. Incredible amount of damage for a demonstration. It looks like that overhead wire system is not designed for that pantograph, at least not for that particular one. It may be designed for trolley poles only.
With Expo, you can rest assured that something like this will never happen because before they run actual trains, they test the pantographs carefully with a special high-rail vehicle equipped with a pantograph.
Re: Exposition Light Rail Line Project Development « Reply #4874 on Mar 15, 2012, 3:19pm »
If the Expo Line doesn't open in time for the Festival of Books it will not only be a PR fiasco but a huge missed opportunity. On-campus parking is very limited at USC, and if people attending the festival could take the Expo Line and be dropped off just a few steps from the main row of exhibition booths on Trousdale that could create a lot of good will. Conversely, seeing empty test cars go by would be very frustrating.
The next big date would be USC Commencement on Friday, May 11. I don't think many people would take the Expo Line to Commencement (parking at USC is free that day), but the crowd is huge, traffic is terrible, and it would be a great opportunity to raise awareness of the Expo Line if visitors to campus would see train cars--with passengers--stopping regularly at Jefferson/Flower and USC/Expo Park throughout the day.
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The ATP at the junction has never been turned on yet. It's still all manual. The only times they turn it on is when they test it late at night. When they do that, it turns out that the Siemens trains do better than the Nippon Sharyo's in picking up the signal.![[homepage]](http://images.proboards.com/buttons/www_sm.gif "[homepage]")
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