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Post by Gokhan on Mar 16, 2009 11:28:25 GMT -8
March 16, 2009 You are invited to attend a public scoping meeting for the Regional Connector Transit Corridor project. The purpose of the project is to connect the Metro Gold with the Blue and Expo lines through Downtown Los Angeles. By providing continuous through service between these LRT lines, the Regional Connector will improve regional mobility, minimize transfers, reduce station crowding and improve access to both local and regional destinations. The public scoping meetings start the Draft Environmental Impact Study/Environmental Impact Report (Draft EIS/EIR) process.Metro will be preparing a joint document that meets the requirements of both the National Environmental Policy Act (NEPA) and the California Environmental Quality Act (CEQA). This environmental review, which follows the Alternatives Analysis (AA) phase, was authorized by the Metro Board at its January 2009 meeting. The AA which narrowed 33 conceptual Build alternatives to two Build alternatives included extensive opportunities for public input. Moving forward for analysis in the Draft EIS/EIR are two Build alternatives – an at-grade emphasis alternative via Temple, Main/Los Angeles, Second and Flower Streets and an underground emphasis alternative via Second and Flower Streets – as well as a No Build alternative and a Transportation Systems Management alternative. The public scoping meetings will provide the public an opportunity to comment on the project purpose, alternatives, and the potential effects of construction and operation that should be considered in the Draft EIS/EIR. Metro and the Federal Transit Administration (FTA) want to hear your thoughts on this next phase of the Regional Connector Transit Corridor project. Please join us at one of the upcoming public scoping meetings: Monday, March 30, 2009;4:30 p.m. to 6 p.m. Alumni Room, Davidson Conference Center, University of Southern California (USC) 3415 S Figueroa St, Los Angeles, CA 90007 Tuesday, March 31, 2009; 6:30 p.m. to 8 p.m. Lake Avenue Church 393 N Lake Ave, Pasadena, CA, 91101 Wednesday, April 1, 2009; 6:30 p.m. to 8 p.m. Japanese American National Museum (JANM) 369 E 1st St, Los Angeles, CA 90012 Thursday, April 2, 2009; Noon to 1:30 p.m. Board Room, Los Angeles Central Library 630 W 5th St, Los Angeles, CA 90071 A copy of the legal notice and additional project related information can be found at the project website: www.metro.net/regionalconnector/ Or contact the project information line at 213.922.7277. Written comments must be received by May 11, 2009 and should be directed to Ms. Dolores Roybal Saltarelli, Project Manager, Metro, One Gateway Plaza, MS 99-22-2, Los Angeles, CA 90012.
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Post by kenalpern on Mar 16, 2009 15:18:20 GMT -8
Thank you, Gokhan, for posting this. I was able to connect to the site with a copy/paste, since for some reason the direct link didn't work.
I don't think I'm going too far out on a limb when I suggest that most folks on this board prefer the subway option (my personal favorite), and I don't things have changed much since the last set of scoping meetings.
I'm sure that TTC will have its official comments, but I hope that as many of you reading this can show up for at least one of these meetings.
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Post by metrocenter on Mar 30, 2009 9:52:15 GMT -8
Reminder - DEIR/DEIS public scoping meetings are this week. First one is this afternoon, at USC.
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Post by kenalpern on Mar 30, 2009 10:28:23 GMT -8
What a shame it's from 4:30-6 p.m., instead of 5:30-7 p.m., so get out of work early if you can!!!
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Post by metrocenter on Mar 30, 2009 13:28:34 GMT -8
I plan to make the one on Wednesday night in Little Tokyo. Afternoon meetings (Monday and Thursday) are great for politicians, students and gadflies, but not so good for working schlubs like me.
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Post by JerardWright on Mar 30, 2009 15:28:17 GMT -8
I'll be at the Pasadena meeting.
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Post by kenalpern on Mar 30, 2009 19:43:34 GMT -8
Thanks, Jerard--I managed to get out of clinic early today, and race in just as they were closing comments. I advocated for the subway route, and thanked the team for greater outreach at this stage of the EIR process.
When 2009-2010 brings out two new LRT lines, and they don't connect to each other, this DTC will be red-hot as a project to be built.
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Post by bluelineshawn on May 10, 2009 12:37:48 GMT -8
They have the latest presentation available on Metro's site now in the construction section. (The latest Harbor Subdivision presentation is also there.) As I suspected earlier the Little Tokyo Station will not be served by all trains. Only north/south service will stop at Little Tokyo if the underground option is chosen and only east/west if it is at grade (even the at-grade may be half underground).
Their timeline shows the selection of a locally preferred alternative by this time next year. If they use local money to fast track (heh) this project is it possible that it would open at the same time or even before Expo II? If they can do that, they'd have LOTS more options for a rail yard that would serve Expo and the other lines. Is it reasonable to shoot for that to happen rather than settle for the less optimum rail yards currently under consideration?
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Post by erict on May 10, 2009 15:32:21 GMT -8
I was wondering about the Little Tokyo station being served north and south only (assuming the line will be the Underground Emphasis LRT Alternative). So, I guess, for Pasadena or Long Beach trains planning to go to to Santa Monica or East LA, they would need to wait until the next stop(s) to transfer. I am guessing that Pasadena to Long beach would be the only line going through Union Station as well. If you want to go from East LA to Pasadena or Long Beach, you therefore will need to transfer at 7th and Metro or a station after Little Tokyo (since it won't be stopping) onto the Long Beach- Pasadena Gold line. And if you are going from Santa Monica to Long Beach or Pasadena, you need to hop on the Gold line train at 7th/Metro. Please correct me if I am wrong here.
Also, the Linea de Oro will be no more, it will be Linea de Aqua or something like that - whatever it is to be called.
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Post by bluelineshawn on May 10, 2009 15:56:41 GMT -8
Yeah, if they stick to this plan and go with the underground option there will be shared stations at 7th/metro, 5th/Flower, 2nd/Hope, and 2nd/Los Angeles. The existing Little Tokyo Station is just too difficult to use for all routes and most people more than likely want to go downtown anyway (versus Little Tokyo and even Union Station). This setup takes East LA, Pasadena, Santa Monica, and Long Beach riders directly downtown, which is the best way to go.
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Post by wad on May 11, 2009 3:49:11 GMT -8
They have the latest presentation available on Metro's site now in the construction section. (The latest Harbor Subdivision presentation is also there.) As I suspected earlier the Little Tokyo Station will not be served by all trains. Only north/south service will stop at Little Tokyo if the underground option is chosen and only east/west if it is at grade (even the at-grade may be half underground). What prevents Metro from building a second set of platforms at Little Tokyo? San Francisco has this at the CalTrain stop, where N and T trains both stop at Fourth and King streets but have stations perpendicular to each other.
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Post by bluelineshawn on May 11, 2009 17:43:46 GMT -8
They have the latest presentation available on Metro's site now in the construction section. (The latest Harbor Subdivision presentation is also there.) As I suspected earlier the Little Tokyo Station will not be served by all trains. Only north/south service will stop at Little Tokyo if the underground option is chosen and only east/west if it is at grade (even the at-grade may be half underground). What prevents Metro from building a second set of platforms at Little Tokyo? San Francisco has this at the CalTrain stop, where N and T trains both stop at Fourth and King streets but have stations perpendicular to each other. That would be the way to go if there were some compelling reason that all trains needed to stop at Little Tokyo, but I don't think that it's necessary. Los Angeles street to Little Tokyo is only one block farther. Three stations will have trains from all of the lines stopping. Little Tokyo will be one of the many stations that doesn't. Not a big deal IMO.
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Post by bluelineshawn on May 11, 2009 17:44:59 GMT -8
Four stations. Forgot about Pico.
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Post by James Fujita on May 14, 2009 15:19:18 GMT -8
if I'm reading the plans correctly, the underground option would effectively give Little Tokyo two stations: the existing one at 1st/ Alameda would be very useful for people coming from Long Beach, Union Station (Metrolink and Amtrak) and Pasadena.
depending on where they put the portals — and I do hope they have several portals for each new station — the 2nd/ Los Angeles underground station would be very useful for people headed for the Kyoto Grand at the very least, and very close to Weller Court and the JACCC.
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Post by bluelineshawn on May 14, 2009 19:22:55 GMT -8
I agree. It's Little Tokyo as far as I'm concerned, although neither the existing nor the planned station are technically in Little Tokyo.
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Post by kenalpern on May 14, 2009 21:21:22 GMT -8
...and the San Diego Freeway doesn't go to San Diego, either, and people use that, too. Silly, perhaps, but so is the human condition in general.
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Post by James Fujita on May 15, 2009 14:39:49 GMT -8
I agree. It's Little Tokyo as far as I'm concerned, although neither the existing nor the planned station are technically in Little Tokyo. For what it's worth, the existing station is certainly close enough to be worthy of the name "Little Tokyo." It is across the street from the Japanese American National Museum (although the museum's main entrance faces the other direction, so what passengers will see when they exit the train is the museum's backside). The station will also be directly in front of the Nikkei Center (Mangrove property). Major backers of the project are Japanese-American, and they promised to lure Japanese businesses. The project won't have the kitschy-Japanese design that the Japanese Village Plaza has, but the architect has plenty of experience with modern Tokyo. Between the Nikkei Center and the Downtown Connector wye, there's a lot of construction to be done at that intersection, but it's a safe assumption that the station will be within Little Tokyo when all the dust settles. The other station's identity is a bit more fluid. You have the new Caltrans building right there, plus the new LAPD headquarters nearby, plus the former St. Vibiana's and Little Tokyo library branch. And the former New Otani/Kyoto Grand Hotel. So, there's a schizophrenic selection of possible destinations and multiple possible station entrance locations. I'm still a fan of the "subway station pedestrian tunnel leads into building's basement" entrance design, but I don't think that applies to any of the buildings that I just mentioned.
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Post by James Fujita on Aug 10, 2009 11:05:16 GMT -8
Like many of you I'm sure, I subscribe to the daily headlines e-mail from the Metro Library. This morning, the list included this rather belligerent blog from Little Tokyo Unblogged.Oddly, they missed this more informative and useful blog from the same source. (but a different author)Another good source of news: this article from the Rafu Shimpo, the Japanese American newspaper.I've said it before but I'll say it again: I support the Regional Connector and I support the underground alternative. I look at the illustrations and the pictures and I think: wow! I like that Little Tokyo will have stations at opposite ends of the community. I like the elevated walkways over the intersection at First and Alameda. At the same time, I can see where the opponents are coming from. Little Tokyo was hurt by Internment, then again with Parker Center and some Japanese Americans were not happy with the New Otani (Kyoto Grand) either, because it catered to Japanese-from-Japan and it was not JA. I'm not saying I agree with them, but that is the sad and sorry history of the place. I'm hoping that common sense wins out over NIMBYism in the end, but I also know that the MTA will have to do a good job of explaining, especially as a lot of Japanese Americans are socially conservative. I've sent my comments to the MTA. I probably ought to write another letter to the Rafu, too.
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Post by damiengoodmon on Aug 10, 2009 14:53:15 GMT -8
What so many here don't seem to understand, because many are so anxious to see anything built, and there is quite literally little to no regard for the community in which these lines are built, is that Metro's process does not lend itself to responding adequately and respectfully to community concerns. Too frequently the objections are dismissed, alternatives that may be superior are ignored for very weak reasons, and as a result resentment is bred in the community. It's almost better to not have the meetings, than to give the public a sham experience. The concerns of the Little Tokyo community were never taken seriously in the Eastside Extension and now with the Downtown Connector. If they were, and MTA staff were competent enough, and MTA board actually gave a damn they could come up with a solution that both improved operations and reduced community impacts, and possibly reduced cost. But this is MTA we're talking about, so why would they want to go and do something like that.
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Post by kenalpern on Aug 10, 2009 16:41:11 GMT -8
I'm not going to throw bombs at Metro, and I'm not going to absolve them, either. The fact remains that there is no shortage of mass transit in the real Tokyo, so that lots of transit access to Little Tokyo will--ultimately--enhance it.
I don't deny the short-term pain involved, but I suspect that the average young and middle-aged resident (including and especially Japanese Americans) recognize the potential of this region to really benefit from the transit and pedestrian traffic that will result from this Downtown Connector.
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Post by James Fujita on Aug 11, 2009 12:50:42 GMT -8
Of course Ken, you're right. After all, here I am, a youngish Japanese American, and I definately support the Connector... ;D
Keeping that thought in mind, I do hope Metro has a booth at the Nisei Week street fair (starting this weekend!). If they have a message to get across about the Regional Connector, there's no better event than Nisei Week, when Japanese Americans from around the region gather and connect.
Otherwise, those Little Tokyo community meetings are liable to be dominated by one segment of the JA community — the residents of Little Tokyo Towers, the "assisted-living" community just down the street from where the construction will take place.
I remember Metro had a booth at the Tofu Festival and I think they had a booth at Nisei Week as well, promoting the new Little Tokyo light rail station to people who probably drove to the festival, struggled with downtown traffic and paid a ridiculous price for parking.
They're more likely to get a positive response than they did on Wednesday....
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Post by kenalpern on Aug 11, 2009 14:01:56 GMT -8
I agree; frankly, this might just be another example of the older folks complaining, but the younger folks more excited about the new opportunities of the Connector. This, of course, would be true of any culture.
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Post by James Fujita on Aug 11, 2009 15:22:31 GMT -8
I agree; frankly, this might just be another example of the older folks complaining, but the younger folks more excited about the new opportunities of the Connector. This, of course, would be true of any culture. well, of course I agree, but there's a lot of subtext in the community that somebody who isn't Japanese American (or well versed in the history) might miss. I already mentioned Parker Center and the New Otani. these are still sore spots for some JAs, and they will project anger over past mistakes onto the new project. then there's the whole Japanese-American vs. Japanese-from-Japan thing. a lot of the older JAs are from rural, southern Japan and don't really particularly like the big metropolis that is Tokyo, just as many Americans aren't particularly fond of New York City. the newer Japanese immigrants (like my father) are from Tokyo and might be more receptive to the "Tokyo has subways, why not Little Tokyo?" argument. younger JAs will be receptive to the Tokyo vs. Little Tokyo idea as well, of course. as the Regional Connector moves forward, these issues may pop up, and I want to make sure they we can adapt our message for the neighborhood, because the Cheviot Hills NIMBY argument may not work in Little Tokyo....
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Post by damiengoodmon on Aug 12, 2009 6:54:00 GMT -8
It's amazing with so many posts that well document the concerns of this community, their concerns are dismissed as typical NIMBYism.
Par for the course around here.
Anyone care to actually address what their complaints/concerns are? Anyone actually taken the time to figure out what those complaints/concerns are, let alone how to address them without just saying "Screw 'em they're just NIMBYs." No wonder some so love Metro. Folk are of the exact same mindset.
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Post by metrocenter on Aug 12, 2009 8:56:36 GMT -8
I don't see any mass of posts in this topic dismissing the concerns of the residents of Little Tokyo as "typical NIMBYism". NIMBYism has many different flavors. - NIMBYism 1: "I don't care what the benefit of the rail line is, I don't want to pay for it because I'll never ride it."
- NIMBYism 2: "I don't care what the benefit of the rail line is, I don't want it near my house because it might affect my property values."
- NIMBYism 3: "Our community has gotten the shaft so many times, I don't trust any project being thrusted upon us that has any chance of damaging our community."
- NIMBYism 4: "I don't want the rail line because it will lead to inappropriate density in my neighborhood, and thus more traffic, crime, etc."
- NIMBYism 5: "I don't want the rail line because the proposed mitigations are insufficient and our community will be negatively impacted."
Which of these are legitimate? I think it depends on your perspective. Someone living near to the rail line is going to naturally have greater concerns than someone living far away. I dismiss argument 1 out-of-hand: nobody likes paying for things, but LRT is usually a worthwhile expense. Arguments 2 and 3 are only valid if they have a basis in reality and are not simply based on generalized fear. Arguments 4 and 5 have the most validity: actual impacts to the character or livability of the neighborhood. In the case of Little Tokyo, I think the NIMBYism is type 3: "the subway will damage or destroy our community, just like the Kyoto Grand and Parker Center did". Of course, the subway is really more a natural consequence of the city growing. But I think for some in Little Tokyo, they will resist integration of their neighborhood into Downtown because they feel that isolation has kept them from disappearing for many years.
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Post by James Fujita on Aug 12, 2009 11:36:37 GMT -8
well, I think Little Tokyo NIMBY is a combination of #3 and #5, to use the terms that MetroCenter described.
There are those who are honestly worried about the community disappearing. Not only is there Parker Center and the New Otani/Kyoto Grand, but more recent developments such as the Little Tokyo Shopping Center (that's the big, boxy square thing on Third Street) changing ownership (from Japanese to Korean). That's NIMBY #3.
Personally, I don't see it. I've been going to Little Tokyo for years and while the community is changing, it's not changing in a bad way. It's more crowded and more diverse than before, and some people don't like crowds. But those crowds are business traffic for the restaurants and shops in the neighborhood, most of which are still Japanese. (They're anime and manga stores instead of kimono textile shops, which probably bothers some people. But that's a whole different kettle of fish.)
As transit fans, we (and Metro) can win over NIMBY #3 by presenting the Regional Connector as something that will bring more customers to Little Tokyo. If you want to help illustrate the point, when the Eastside Line opens, don't just go to East Los Angeles for King Taco, come visit Japanese Village Plaza.
However, Little Tokyo NIMBY #5 is less cultural and more technical: Some people are worried about the construction. I've heard that the MTA intends to use the same sort of equipment on Second Street that they used in the Boyle Heights tunnel. If that's true, then the MTA needs to put that information out front. Better to counter any misguided misconceptions from the start.
Of course, that still leaves First and Alameda. Any construction project that will involve knocking down Office Depot, pushing Alameda underground, building a new wye and building those fantastic new elevated walkways will be messier than just drilling a tunnel. I'm not quite sure how you mitigate that one, but Metro has to come up with a solution.
One thing that the MTA did right is they hired Ted Tanaka to design the Little Tokyo station at First and Alameda. Not only does he have the architectural skills to make a really cool looking design for that location (he is also involved with the Nikkei Center project, so hopefully it will all flow together), but he has credibility with the Japanese American community, which might help defuse some of the tension.
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Post by erict on Aug 12, 2009 13:31:26 GMT -8
As opposed as Little Tokyo residents are to the Regional Connector I think that it will become painfully obvious when the Gold Line opens that the RC is not some silly project but a total necessity for our transit system to work properly. And don't forget the the RC would bring at least 2 new train stations to downtown, expanding access to Little Tokyo to the rest of downtown residents and workers.
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Post by James Fujita on Aug 13, 2009 11:46:00 GMT -8
As opposed as Little Tokyo residents are to the Regional Connector I think that it will become painfully obvious when the Gold Line opens that the RC is not some silly project but a total necessity for our transit system to work properly. And don't forget the the RC would bring at least 2 new train stations to downtown, expanding access to Little Tokyo to the rest of downtown residents and workers. ...which is all the more reason why the Gold Line extension needs to open as quickly as safety will allow. Basically, every day that the Little Tokyo light rail station isn't open is a day that Little Tokyo residents won't get the chance to experience the benefits that light rail will bring to their community. It is too bad that the Gold Line isn't opening this weekend, because Nisei Week really would be the best time to advertise light rail to the scattered Japanese American community. = = = BTW, I've noticed and I'm sure that everyone here has noticed how the NIMBY has gotten more sophisticated in recent years. The rabid pro-car, anti-transit NIMBY seems to be a Dead Horse Trope ( to quote one of my favorite Web sites). What I'm seeing instead, is the "Build It Right" NIMBY: more like the Cal HSR NIMBYs of the San Francisco Peninsula, or along the Expo Line. The target, in the case of the Regional Connector, is predictably, the First/Alameda wye, such as this guy seems to be saying. I won't go into the details of underground vs. at grade or costs vs. benefits here, but it is obvious that this is another tactic that we may have to confront.
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Post by Jason Saunders on Aug 19, 2009 19:36:33 GMT -8
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Post by losangeles2319 on Aug 19, 2009 20:49:02 GMT -8
That intersection seems a little confusing. A full underground intersection would be easier, right? I mean 1st would already be below grade, Why couldn't Alameda?
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