|
Post by bluelineshawn on Oct 30, 2010 15:09:53 GMT -8
Is there any hard data available that we have access to that would shed more light on what the actual problem will be? Data
|
|
|
Post by Gokhan on Oct 30, 2010 18:09:37 GMT -8
On the capacity issue, in hindsight, we now wish that we had four-car LRT trains. But this and the capacity of 7th/Metro is something we have to live with. Four-car-LRT-train could be a bigger need in the future but there is no way to extend the current Expo platforms because of restrictions such as trains blocking intersections, grade-separation structures, etc. Then there also issues such as whether two tracks will be enough. When rapid-transit systems were planned for Los Angeles in 1925, up to five tracks each and multiple simultaneous downtown connectors were considered. Click on the map to enlarge:
|
|
|
Post by James Fujita on Oct 30, 2010 23:17:10 GMT -8
Of course, in 1925, a lot of these (unfortunately rejected) plans would have involved upgrading already existing rail lines. All things considered, the 1925 map would make a fairly decent Metro Rail map, if you ignore the fact that LAX didn't exist yet and very little wanders into the orange groves of the pre-Moon Unit San Fernando Valley.
That said, there is nothing strange or unusual about multiple "downtown connectors" or "regional connectors". In London or Tokyo, these make up the bulk, the meat of the system. Each of these systems' dozen or so subway lines may start in the suburbs, but as they get closer to downtown, they form a web — woven like a basket, designed to "catch" passengers with station entrances VERY close together.
The way that we have built our system speaks to the unique scale of the geography of Southern California. It makes sense, in our region, to grow the system outwards into the suburbs, rather than look inwards.
But even our "stick figure" map is going to need more routes through downtown. You don't need ridership numbers to figure out that with trains coming in from four directions, the Regional Connector is going to be crowded from day one.
|
|
|
Post by James Fujita on Nov 6, 2010 20:42:10 GMT -8
|
|
|
Post by Gokhan on Nov 16, 2010 15:59:50 GMT -8
Crossposting: She was apparently pushed by a crazy person. Notice what I highlighted in red and bold.Woman Pushed From LA Train Platform DiesSuspect Jailed on Suspicion of Murder After Apparently Unprovoked Attack Against Betty Sugiyama, 84Betty Sugiyama is seen in a handout photo from the California DMV in this screenshot from CBS station KCAL TV.(AP) An 84-year-old woman was pushed to her death from a commuter train platform in Los Angeles' Little Tokyo by an apparent stranger, and investigators believe the victim did nothing to provoke the attack, authorities said Monday. Betty Sugiyama was a retired bookstore worker who spent World War II in an internment camp for Japanese Americans. She was on the platform of the Metro Gold Line station with her sister Sunday morning when she was pushed on to empty tracks, Los Angeles County sheriff's Capt. Michael Parker said. Sugiyama died hours later at a hospital. Jackkqueline Pogue was arrested on suspicion of attempted murder and remained jailed Monday on $1 million bail. Authorities said they planned to seek a murder charge now that the victim is dead. Investigators said the attack appeared to be unprovoked and there was no word on a motive. Sugiyama's sister, Mary Sugiyama, said the two of them had planned a day of shopping in Long Beach, and despite both being in their 80s, they ran to catch the first of many trains they needed to take to get there. "I didn't think we could make it," Mary Sugiyama told the Los Angeles Times. "But we decided to try." Mary Sugiyama said she spotted a heavyset woman dressed in black and sitting alone, and as the sisters passed the woman stood up, shouted and shoved her sister onto the tracks, then sat back down without saying another word. Mary Sugiyama said she could hear her sister's skull crack. The two sisters grew up in Seattle and were in the same internment camp in Wyoming during the 1940s. Betty Sugiyama worked in several bookstores in Los Angeles' Little Tokyo and at one point ran her own bookstore, her sister said. After retirement, she focused on other people's stores. "She loved to shop," Mary Sugiyama said. "We made all the malls, I think."
|
|
|
Post by metrocenter on Nov 16, 2010 16:56:15 GMT -8
Ugh, sad. I hope the attacker doesn't get off with an insanity plea.
|
|
|
Post by Gokhan on Nov 16, 2010 21:04:08 GMT -8
Ugh, sad. I hope the attacker doesn't get off with an insanity plea. This is really sad indeed. The only explanation to this seems to be that the pusher is insane. She probably didn't realize that for an 80-plus-year-old with little athletic ability, a 3.25-ft fall could be extremely dangerous.
|
|
|
Post by James Fujita on Nov 17, 2010 16:13:24 GMT -8
I get the feeling that it will be insanity plea.
Either way, this person deserves to be permanently in either jail or a mental institution. I hate to say it, but mental hospital makes the most legal sense.
Unfortunately, we've cut the budget completely out of mental health, so jail would be the only way to ensure that she's not out on the streets. And jails/ prisons shouldn't have to take mentally ill people, that's not the right place.
Which means very little chance for a satisfactory conclusion for the Sugiyama family, which deserves justice, or at the very least, peace.
|
|
|
Post by metrocenter on Dec 14, 2010 9:06:55 GMT -8
The following story is from blogdowntown.com. Fight Continues Over 5th & Flower Station for Regional ConnectorBy Eric Richardson Published: Wednesday, December 08, 2010, at 11:30AMThis station at 5th and Flower was dropped from the Regional Connector in October, but Financial District stakeholders want to see it added back in for study.DOWNTOWN LOS ANGELES — The Metro Board of Directors may have formally removed a 5th and Flower station from the proposed Regional Connector just over a month ago, but that hasn't stopped a group of Financial District stakeholders from pushing the station's continued study. The project approved by the transit agency's board in late October would create an entirely underground link between the Blue Line's current terminus at 7th and Metro and the Gold Line's tracks at 1st and Alameda, adding stations at 2nd/Hope and 2nd/Broadway and replacing the existing Little Tokyo / Arts District Gold Line station with one that is underground. It would not, however, add a station at 5th and Flower, a station site that had been included throughout the project planning process. It was only with the release of the staff recommendations for the board that the station was removed. Rising costs were cited as the culprit, with the station's roughly $180 million price tag the easiest way to trim the budget. At the October meeting, the board voted to continue study of the station only if the private sector contributed the $2 million needed to complete the environmental process. On Monday morning, property owners, elected officials and Metro staff sat down in a meeting organized by the Central City Association. Those representing the Financial District made the case that the removal leaves too few stations in the region's densest employment hub, and that the neighborhood was being treated unfairly by being asked to pay for the station study when Metro did not make the same demand of other neighborhoods. "I don't think they were satisfied," said Councilwoman Jan Perry, a supporter of the station who participated in Monday's meeting. "I think they will contemplate further action." That could potentially end in a lawsuit against the transit agency. "I think that's probably accurate," said Perry when asked whether legal action was being considered. For now, though, the focus is on more political solutions. Phil Recht, chair of the Central City Association, will be speaking at Metro's Thursday board meeting, and supporters have been petitioning the Mayor's office to get his support for the study. That support is considered critical. The Mayor's appointees on the Metro board all abstained in the October vote, which failed 4-3-3.
|
|
|
Post by bzcat on Dec 14, 2010 11:32:05 GMT -8
Well well well... a threat of lawsuit from rail YIMBYs
While I hate to see lawsuits driving up the cost of this project, I feel a little tingly on the inside. This would mark a watershed moment in LA history... a YIMBY lawsuit to force Metro to add a station.
|
|
|
Post by Dan Wentzel on Dec 14, 2010 12:05:13 GMT -8
Well well well... a threat of lawsuit from rail YIMBYs While I hate to see lawsuits driving up the cost of this project, I feel a little tingly on the inside. This would mark a watershed moment in LA history... a YIMBY lawsuit to force Metro to add a station. Good point. That is worth a tingle.
|
|
|
Post by James Fujita on Dec 14, 2010 15:00:30 GMT -8
Where were all of these YIMBYs when Little Tokyo was busy attending meetings, commenting on the EIR, organizing, discussing proposals, supporting, opposing and airing concerns, both NIMBY and non-NIMBY alike?
I'd like to see the 5th/ Flower station reinstated, but it does seem like they're a little late to the party, and 2) a lawsuit is the worst possible way to go about this when the MTA has already given them a fundraising goal.
Somebody among all of those Bunker Hill lawyers, businessmen, real estate owners and bankers ought to be able to afford it. A bake sale for the Bonaventure station, maybe?
|
|
|
Post by metrocenter on Dec 14, 2010 15:10:40 GMT -8
^^ As usual, employment centers never have the same rate of participation as residential communities (like Little Tokyo). That is largely due to meetings which are generally scheduled in the evenings, when people go home. That doesn't make the station any less valuable to the system and the region.
Fifth Street station was part of the Regional Connector from the beginning in 2006 - through the Major Investment Study, through the Alternatives Analysis phase, and through the draft environmental study. It was only recommended for removal after the DEIR was presented (September of this year), and it was officially canceled less than two months later.
I don't know that a lawsuit is the best way to handle this. But like the Financial District stakeholders (not just "lawyers" but thousands of middle-class workers), I am pissed about how this was handled.
|
|
|
Post by James Fujita on Dec 15, 2010 15:13:33 GMT -8
A lawsuit is an absolutely horrible way to go about things. Force your opponent, which has repeatedly said it doesn't have enough money, to spend what little money it has, to defend itself, so that if you win, you can force them to use that money.... which they already spent on legal fees. Oops.
But of course, Bunker Hill lawyers can always hire themselves in the lawsuit. Do the work pro bono.
Seriously though, maybe Metro mishandled this, but they don't deserve all of the credit. Somebody, anybody should have gone to bat for 5th/ Flower. Not everybody has to go straight home after work. They could have organized a little better, even if they were convinced that there was no way that the MTA would eliminate the station... a little cheerleading at least?
I do want a subway station at 5th/ Flower, although the idea of a subway portal at 505 Flower sounds mighty enticing. Underground shopping AND a Metro Rail station? Synergy!
I mean, you can just about photoshop a Metro Rail station sign onto the entrance to ARCO Plaza right now as it is.
|
|
|
Post by JerardWright on Dec 16, 2010 16:50:36 GMT -8
A lawsuit is an absolutely horrible way to go about things. Force your opponent, which has repeatedly said it doesn't have enough money, to spend what little money it has, to defend itself, so that if you win, you can force them to use that money.... which they already spent on legal fees. Which is partly the feeling I have at the moment, considering that the funding even if it had gone for a highr federal match gets approved the 5th/Flower Station would still need additional monies to fill the gap which could jeopardize the project more because even with Obama as President we still have FTA rules that require a project have its funding in-line before asking for a greater than 50% match. Greater grant requires greater grant requirements, this is one of them. Should the Planners have talked with the 5th/Flower constituency first before the decision, Yes. Did they have time? No, because of the same FTA New Starts timelines to get an approval by the Metro Board to the LPA for the FTA summary. This was a similiar time sensitive issue that I witnessed during the Little Tokyo meetings. James, that is a much better use of their funds and show that the stakeholders are being the responsible party and are making suggestions in the old adage of "When life throws you lemons, Make lemonade!". I mean the suggestions of additional portals at the remaining stations ( 7th Street Metro Center and Bunker Hill) can still be studied in the FEIR and can include an urban design component that could investigate this very feature of the feasibility of connecting the suggested converted emergency staircase portal at 6th/Flower with the 505 Flower underground shopping arcade. Regarding the attorneys if the Metro board hears of this and looks at this component will immediately ask, if you can afford an attorney you can chip in some $$$ to go towards the study which basically places the stakeholders in a weaker position than before.
|
|
|
Post by metrocenter on Dec 16, 2010 19:33:16 GMT -8
As I've said before, a lawsuit is not the best way to handle this. And yes, I think new portals at 7th/Metro and Bunker Hill stations is the "next best thing", if 5th/Flower is gone for good.
But I still say, since Metro is a public entity, it is responsible to the public for providing a certain level of transparency, which was remarkably missing in the process of cutting the station. The cut happened with almost no public input. It is unfair to blame local stakeholders -- whether middle-class commuters, bankers, or residents -- for not sufficiently supporting the station, given that everybody believed the station was safe, as it had been in the plans for several years.
|
|
|
Post by rubbertoe on Jan 5, 2011 13:32:06 GMT -8
Looks like the FTA has given the green light for preliminary engineering to begin. Per "The Source" this implies that they have high confidence that the project will be receiving New Starts funding, possibly as early as the next budget cycle starting in October of this year: thesource.metro.net/2011/01/05/ft....ineering-phase/Note: Also posted in the Red Line forum...
|
|
|
Post by metrocenter on Jan 5, 2011 14:25:16 GMT -8
|
|
|
Post by erict on Jan 5, 2011 19:32:32 GMT -8
I will cross my fingers and toes hoping that the house and senate decide to allow funding or these necessary projects.
|
|
|
Post by jdrcrasher on Jan 5, 2011 23:37:39 GMT -8
I will cross my fingers and toes hoping that the house and senate decide to allow funding or these necessary projects. I'd like to believe they would, but with a certain crybaby in the House, i'm not too sure.
|
|
|
Post by James Fujita on Jan 12, 2011 21:39:08 GMT -8
I was going to comment on the new Broad museum and its implications for the 2nd/ Hope station, but I just saw this: Metro Tweaks Little Tokyo Alignment for Regional ConnectorIf I'm reading this correctly, they will smooth out the curve in Little Tokyo (not a bad idea) by tunneling under Japanese Village Plaza (safe, but I'm surprised the community supports this considering Beverly Hills' reaction to tunneling). This will apparently save Office Depot and Starbucks (generic commercial development) and move the tunnel staging to the corner of First and Alameda (ironically where the very Japanese American Nikkei Center was supposed to be). So, winners: Office Depot, and that guy whose name escapes me, he owns the parking lot in that block. Losers: Nikkei Center. Put on hold for financial reasons, but still not helped by having the block torn up for construction. Little Tokyo still gets its new underground train station, but one does have to wonder if Mikawaya is worried about tunneling underneath their mochi balls... EDIT: Taking a closer look at the map shows that it would skirt the Japanese Village Plaza. Still, I wonder how MTA will present this to the NIMBYs. And the old Atomic Cafe building would still have to go if the train station is there.
|
|
|
Post by metrocenter on Jan 13, 2011 8:46:42 GMT -8
Here's another source for basically the same information ( link). Interesting: now they're going to cut through the huge Japanese Village Plaza block. I wonder how much more this new routing is going to cost. And, of the remaining stations in the Connector, which will have to be cut to pay for it. All joking aside, this is a pretty major change. Especially since the LPA has already been chosen. I'm sure someone had proposed this on these forums several years back. Why was that block of Second Street going to be dug out using cut-and-cover techniques, if the rest of Second is going to be bored?
|
|
|
Post by metrocenter on Jan 13, 2011 9:01:44 GMT -8
From The Source: Metro project planners say the refinement would bring down the project cost. During this phase of the project, the team is looking to “value engineer” the project (i.e., evaluate engineering methods that lower construction costs) as much as possible to keep the project within budget. That's really good to hear. I hope it's true.
|
|
|
Post by bzcat on Jan 13, 2011 11:03:45 GMT -8
This change is VERY good just from an operational standpoint. It gets even better to know it will cost less! The actual cost of deep bore tunneling will be more than cut and cover but the savings is likely be due to not having to purchase the Office Depot land and that guy's parking lot.
|
|
|
Post by rubbertoe on Jan 13, 2011 13:18:40 GMT -8
Here's another source for basically the same information ( link). Interesting: now they're going to cut through the huge Japanese Village Plaza block. I wonder how much more this new routing is going to cost. And, of the remaining stations in the Connector, which will have to be cut to pay for it. All joking aside, this is a pretty major change. Especially since the LPA has already been chosen. I'm sure someone had proposed this on these forums several years back. Why was that block of Second Street going to be dug out using cut-and-cover techniques, if the rest of Second is going to be bored? Metro, The TBM was going to be staged on the SW corner for a direct bore West down second street. The old station location location was North of second, so the TBM bore would not be able to dig the station then turn West down second. They are like hundreds of yards long. With the new location on the NE corner of second and Alameda, the TBM will I'm guessing start right where the underground station will be, then gradually turn up second. The box they dig for the TBM will become the underground station. We will have to see once more technical info becomes available. Last time I read through the construction staging section of the DEIR, they still hadn't decided for sure whether the TBM would proceed East or West. RT
|
|
|
Post by metrocenter on Jan 13, 2011 13:20:29 GMT -8
^ Thanks for the info, RT!
|
|
|
Post by James Fujita on Jan 13, 2011 14:14:05 GMT -8
If the community is okay with this change, then I'm okay with it. I'm curious to see if the community is okay with it.
If Little Tokyo is okay with tunneling under Japanese Village Plaza, then that means they're smarter than Beverly Hills. I'd be willing to accept that ;D
I didn't know all this stuff about the cut-and-cover vs. TBM, and the cost savings is a surprise.
I'm still bummed that they managed to save Office Depot and can't save Atomic Cafe.
EDIT: Life works in ironic ways. I went to look at BlogDowntown's article on the Regional Connector and got the following:
"Rails application failed to start properly"
|
|
|
Post by erict on Jan 13, 2011 16:24:11 GMT -8
Maybe they can relocate the atomic cafe inside the lobby of the underground train station.
|
|
|
Post by metrocenter on Jan 13, 2011 16:56:41 GMT -8
If they're going to move the old Atomic Cafe into the new Little Tokyo station, then they should also move the old Gorky's into 7th/Metro. Just sayin'.
As much as I miss the old Atomic Cafe, it has been gone for something like 15 years, with Senor Fish in its place.
|
|
|
Post by James Fujita on Jan 13, 2011 18:55:54 GMT -8
I have to say, re-creations of old structures can go really badly really quickly if not done right.
The Atomic Cafe has been gone for a long time. The building is still there. Personally, I don't consider the building itself to be all that important. It might be historic, but it's nothing special to look at.
However, I recognize that the building (and its history) is apparently important to some members of the Little Tokyo community [whether this is a legitimate concern or NIMBY ploy to stop the project, I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt].
At the very least, Metro should try to preserve some of the history of what was once there (talking as if the building has been knocked down already, I know).
Rebuilding the building in a different location might work, although I don't know where or why. Something tells me putting the building inside the station wouldn't work (although I wouldn't be opposed to retail at the station, it just ought to be NEW retail and not faux history). I don't think an artistic "recreation" of the building would work very well (as a "guest" suggested at BlogDowntown), either.
The new station will need artwork, and it probably could include a tribute to the Atomic Cafe of some sort, since it has its place in rock history. Murals seem to be the normal method. JANM has some memorabilia which might be donated (just a suggestion, don't know if they would go for it.)
But the actual building itself... not so much.
|
|