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Post by gibiscus on Jun 4, 2011 10:16:23 GMT -8
I'm disappointed to see that the station location is going to be National/Palms. It should be closer to National/Motor since there's more businesses there. National between Palms and Motor isn't pedestrian-friendly at all. The ideal station site would be where the self-storage place is now, but then everyone storing stuff there would have to find a new place...
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Post by rajacobs on Jun 4, 2011 10:57:53 GMT -8
The presence of the Vons-Cheviot Hills Shopping Center and higher population density to the north and east (down National) probably contributed to and sealed the choice of National/Palms.
To the north of National and Motor, there is lower population density. Thus were a station located there it would somewhat exclusively be a Palms station. Initially, I anticipated the station to be sited there but afte thinking about the northern and eastern access that National/Palms/Exposition affords, it seemed a more logical alternative.
That National between Palms and Motor isn't pedestrian-friendly is the unfortunate result of the self-storage entities perpetuating the Sloan Furniture legacy of the block as warehouse row. I agree that the Price location would have been ideal for the Palms station. The saving grace on the block is Lycee--the French High School. (Wish I had kids to send there and I wish they had adult-study and evening classes!)
I'm finding that though I never imagined that Palms/National could be "pedestrian-freindly," we're beginning to walk from there to Bagley and Venice and south into Culver downtown all the time--for restaurants and movies. We can drink too much and walk home! We get plenty of exercise since we've made Culver downtown part of our neighborhood. ...It would be nice to have better linkage to Motor and National. I wish that intersection offered more. Aside from Mama's Pizza and a few of the newer fast-type restaurants, though, it does not.
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Post by metrocenter on Jun 4, 2011 11:13:33 GMT -8
Palms/National is "pedestrian-unfriendly" primarily because of the flow of commuters using National Blvd. and acting as if they are driving Le Mans or the Indy 500.
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Post by Gokhan on Jun 4, 2011 12:22:44 GMT -8
The major-investment study (MIS) for the Expo corridor identified Motor Avenue as the station location.
But in the DEIR problems were identified with this location. There was limited space to fit a station. Motor Avenue, especially with traffic-calming measures being implemented, was a poor access street. It would also result in a lot of opposition from Cheviot Hills.
Santa Monica Big Blue Bus also asked for the National/Palms location for access to their buses.
I personally advocated for the Price Self-Storage location to provide equal access to both Motor and National/Palms.
At the end Expo expressed desire to build stations at major streets and bus lines and chose National/Palms.
They thankfully partially listened to me and put the station to the west of National/Palms, therefore providing better access to Motor Avenue than a station centered on or to the east of National/Palms.
They also thankfully listened to me on the Westwood Station and put the station to the east of Westwood, therefore providing access to Overland Avenue as well.
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Post by rajacobs on Jun 4, 2011 17:55:25 GMT -8
Palms/National is "pedestrian-unfriendly" primarily because of the flow of commuters using National Blvd. and acting as if they are driving Le Mans or the Indy 500. I sure agree with your sentiment. The roar of traffic--especially going east to west--underneath the freeway and rail bridge cannot be imagined unless you walk it. The speed of east-west traffic can be frightening. The dirt under the bridges, especially on the northwest side is crazy. A homeless woman a year and a half ago, on her own cleaned under the overpass. Nothing's been done since. ...And she got hit by a car (don't know if it was on National), put in a wheelchair. Insufficient rehab leaves her mostly in that wheelchair. Bottomline, while it's reasonable to put the station where it will be, some careful thinking should be done on how to manage the traffic flow there.
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Post by bzcat on Jun 6, 2011 15:46:46 GMT -8
The problem with self-storage place can also be the saving grace later. It can be redeveloped easily to provide retail/commercial destinations near the station.
Access on National from the north of the freeway is problematic but it would be too on Motor.
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Post by rajacobs on Jun 6, 2011 21:15:30 GMT -8
I think what's necessary for the underpass at National/Palms are the following: Given the places of business (and population) east of the intersection and the access that the underpass provides to the north and east, I think it would be beneficial for Expo to work with the city to address these issues. Sure wish the Cheviot Hills homeowners associations would get on the ball regarding issues like these rather than wasting so much energy and money on roadblocking the train.
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Post by pithecanthropus on Feb 16, 2012 22:05:20 GMT -8
I'm finding that though I never imagined that Palms/National could be "pedestrian-freindly," we're beginning to walk from there to Bagley and Venice and south into Culver downtown all the time--for restaurants and movies. It's a bit of a hike, but I frequently walk to Downtown Culver City and I live on the other side of Overland. Even by itself, the Starbucks in the old, flatiron-shaped building in the sliver-shaped gore point between of Washington and Culver alone makes a worthwhile destination. It's the best Starbucks location in the whole area. Usually I walk down and take the 12 bus* back; probably that will continue to be the best option for these outings, though of course I'll be ecstatic to see the rail line arrive. *Santa Monica's Big Blue Bus line, of course, L.A. County's first class muni bus system!
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Post by Alexis Kasperavičius on Feb 17, 2012 11:17:08 GMT -8
Even by itself, the Starbucks in the old, flatiron-shaped building in the sliver-shaped gore point between of Washington and Culver alone makes a worthwhile destination. It's the best Starbucks location in the whole area. That Starbucks used to be the lunch counter for Ship's Restaurant which took up the whole building. Their claim to fame was a toaster on every table. The whole area used to be more walkable and could be again. From that building down Washington toward Culver City is quite nice and getting better, but walking up Overland since it was widened is unpleasant. If a few more points of interest were put in on Motor, it would be a very nice walk from the Culver City Station to the Palms Station. I think the local merchants will figure this out pretty quickly. There are still some nice little bars, various shops and restaurants along that route which are aching to be discovered by a wider base. I'm really looking forward to the changes in that neighborhood once this thing opens - similar to the area around the Gold line's Mission station. Should be good to see.
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Post by rajacobs on Feb 17, 2012 14:26:04 GMT -8
...True, Motor is busy and not much fun to walk but it's also sort of out of the way to get to the Palms station.
Three or four years from now, the walk I'm looking forward to is from the Culver Station northwest to the right of the tracks (bikeway that I hope will incorporate a path for walkers), then along Exposition from Bagley to the station ...although this route misses going past the Culver Hotel and the shopping district around Main Street and then past the Starbucks.
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Post by pithecanthropus on Feb 17, 2012 14:33:45 GMT -8
Even by itself, the Starbucks in the old, flatiron-shaped building in the sliver-shaped gore point between of Washington and Culver alone makes a worthwhile destination. It's the best Starbucks location in the whole area. That Starbucks used to be the lunch counter for Ship's Restaurant which took up the whole building. Their claim to fame was a toaster on every table. No, you're thinking of a different Starbucks, the one catty corner from Sony. I worked at Lorimar, when it occupied the MGM/Sony site for about a year around 1988, and it was still Ships then. I often used to have lunch there. The only drawback was that it took so much time to walk down to the studio gate and then backtrack so I could cross the street it was almost like driving to lunch every day. The downtown Culver City Starbucks is about a half mile east and much better. If we think of the Washington/Culver intersection as a sort of miniature Times Square, this Starbucks is opposite the Culver Hotel. ETA: Here's a picture* of the downtown Culver City Starbucks. It's really a great Starbucks, and it's even better since they remodeled the interior. They reduced the amount of floor space devoted to selling mugs and tchotchkes and added many more places to sit, including four bar seats, each of which has its own electrical outlet. ETA: The former Starbucks where the old Ships Restaurant used to be closed down during the summer of 2013. Shortly thereafter it was converted into a CBTL, and is much larger and more comfortable than the old Starbucks was. *Own work.
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