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Post by Elson on Jun 14, 2005 21:32:19 GMT -8
Was there ever a Red Car line that ran on what is now the median of Burton Way in Beverly Hills? If so, where did it go?
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Post by bobdavis on Mar 13, 2007 22:52:47 GMT -8
Yes, it was part of the Santa Monica via Sawtelle line, which diverged from the Venice Short line at Vineyard and went along San Vicente Blvd to Burton Way, meeting the Santa Monica Blvd. line at Beverly Hills. Service was abandoned in 1940. Typical cars on this line were of the 950 class, one of which is preserved at Orange Empire.
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Post by tonyw79sfv on Mar 20, 2007 18:08:15 GMT -8
If you ever fire up Google Earth, look for very wide median streets, those are the ones that once supported PE trains. Streets like Burton Way, San Vicente, Santa Monica, Venice, Hawthorne, Vermont, Brand Blvd's in San Fernando and Glendale, Sepulveda, Van Nuys, Parthenia, Chandler (where the current Orange Line is), and Vineland have wide portions and those are were the trains were.
Interesting note is the Highland Ave entrance to the 101 freeway north used to be where the PE trains go through, hence the odd entrance to the left part of the Hollywood Freeway; and too many suckers still crossing the solid white line there.
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Post by pithecanthropus on Nov 2, 2010 11:26:58 GMT -8
If you ever fire up Google Earth, look for very wide median streets, those are the ones that once supported PE trains. Streets like Burton Way, San Vicente, Santa Monica, Venice, Hawthorne, Vermont, Brand Blvd's in San Fernando and Glendale, Sepulveda, Van Nuys, Parthenia, Chandler (where the current Orange Line is), and Vineland have wide portions and those are were the trains were. It's interesting that Exposition Blvd seems to be the outstanding exception. The other streets you've mentioned still function as major arteries today for motor traffic in the sense that motorists can travel for miles on these roads without having to negotiate two-way stop sign intersections across other busy roads. Expo Blvd, on the other hand, makes its way out to Santa Monica in stops and starts. When driving between downtown L.A. and the West Side nobody in their right mind would take Exposition.
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Post by Gokhan on Nov 2, 2010 12:52:17 GMT -8
If you ever fire up Google Earth, look for very wide median streets, those are the ones that once supported PE trains. Streets like Burton Way, San Vicente, Santa Monica, Venice, Hawthorne, Vermont, Brand Blvd's in San Fernando and Glendale, Sepulveda, Van Nuys, Parthenia, Chandler (where the current Orange Line is), and Vineland have wide portions and those are were the trains were. It's interesting that Exposition Blvd seems to be the outstanding exception. The other streets you've mentioned still function as major arteries today for motor traffic in the sense that motorists can travel for miles on these roads without having to negotiate two-way stop sign intersections across other busy roads. Expo Blvd, on the other hand, makes its way out to Santa Monica in stops and starts. When driving between downtown L.A. and the West Side nobody in their right mind would take Exposition. The reason is that Exposition Boulevard is a frontage road built around the original right-of-way (Los Angeles & Independence Railroad) built in 1875, not the other way around. There was no Exposition Boulevard in 1875 when the right-of-way was built. Then Exposition Boulevard was built along certain sections of the right-of-way over the years. In fact National Boulevard in Culver City was absent until the 1960s -- it was only a railroad there. The right-of-way that continues the Exposition right-of-way to Inglewood through Venice and Marina Del Rey is another example where the right-of-way doesn't go along a street. For certain rights-of-way, parts of the rights-of-way were taken by streets. For example Venice Boulevard was mainly a railroad with little or no street next to it. Now, it has been converted into a six-lane state highway. Note that most of the width of Exposition Boulevard in Mid-City was built on the railroad right-of-way. The right-of-way there, as a result, varies in width between 30 - 50 ft, whereas the original width (which is still preserved in the Westside) was 100 ft. On one more note, the name of Northvale Road was originally Exposition Boulevard. On the other end of the spectrum, certain lines had no rights-of-way to begin with but ran on streets -- such as most lines running through Downtown and the Hollywood Line.
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Post by bobdavis on Nov 2, 2010 18:07:45 GMT -8
Out here in my native land (San Gabriel Valley), the PE line from LA to El Monte is now the Metrolink San Bernardino Line until it nears the bus station. Just east of County USC Medical, the Pasadena/Monrovia line branched off, and the right of way is still there for a mile or two. Then, we have the eastbound lanes of Huntington Drive following the Red Car route to El Sereno, where the median marks the PE line. Note that the PE had four tracks in this area, all the way to the west end of San Marino. At Fair Oaks, the Pasadena Short Line went north; this location was called Oneonta Park, after Henry Huntington's home town in New York. Going east from Oneonta, the next junction was at El Molino, named after the historic mill nearby. The Oak Knoll line branched off here, but but there's little trace of it until you get near the former Huntington Hotel, where a hillside right-of-way remains. At San Marino, the Sierra Madre line went up Sierra Madre Blvd., where the median runs all the way to the edge of Sierra Madre, where the line ran in the street, and for many years could be traced by the bumpy pavement where the rails had been pulled out, but the ties were left to rot. Going east from San Marino, the median is again easy to follow, although the retaining wall between Eaton Wash and Rosemead Blvd. is long gone. At Holly Ave. in Arcadia, the median ends, and the eastbound lanes of Huntington Dr. run on the PE right of way. A line of trees between the hospital and the National Guard armory mark the path used by folks heading to Santa Anita Park to watch and wager when the hayburners were running. Where the two sides of Huntington rejoin near the Mercedes dealership, Santa Clara Ave. goes off to the northeast, then east. It does not follow the PE main line, but rather the former Southern Pacific Duarte Branch, which PE operated as a non-electrified freight-only line. The route of the PE is covered by commercial development in this area; the next section that can be followed is St. Joseph St., which is now used by the Metro 79 line buses. From 2nd and St. Joseph, the line is obliterated until you get into Monrovia, where the track ran down the middle of Olive. Ave. and the right-of-way west of Mayflower is now a park. We'll stop at the site of the Monrovia depot at the southeast corner of Myrtle and Olive, a parcel of land that's seen a number of diverse uses in the years since the depot was dismantled around 1967. Observe the building at the northeast corner--it was there in 1903 when the first PE car arrived in Monrovia and may date back to the 19th Century. We'll end the tour here, but watch for more trips into Southern California olden days.
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