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Post by wad on Jul 19, 2012 3:28:43 GMT -8
Some good and bad news on the Expo Line. I used it to come from Culver City after the third Wednesday event.
The bad news: I didn't go with Expo to Culver City. It was the afternoon, so I tried LADOT's Commuter Express 437. It's twice as fast as the train. Also, going on the 10 didn't affect its speed at all. It went from the 10 onramp at Grand to Fairfax in 15 minutes.
Also, the line has die-hards. The bus was 3/4 full, and I've heard a few riders talk about the Expo Line and hate it. They've all tried it and hate the slowness and the unreliability, and probably flocked back to the 437.
LADOT now has MCI motorcoaches (Greyhound-type buses). They still smell new, and while the seats are high-backed and soft, the seats are packed tightly like on airplanes. Motorcoaches usually have good legroom. The aisle is also very narrow.
The good: I rode an Expo Line leaving at 7:45 p.m. ... and it ran perfectly smooth! The ATP didn't stall the train between stations, and even going north on Flower it ran flawlessly. Maybe it's only possible later in the day when the lines aren't so busy.
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Post by Gokhan on Jul 19, 2012 7:34:11 GMT -8
The bad news: I didn't go with Expo to Culver City. It was the afternoon, so I tried LADOT's Commuter Express 437. It's twice as fast as the train. Also, going on the 10 didn't affect its speed at all. It went from the 10 onramp at Grand to Fairfax in 15 minutes. Also, the line has die-hards. The bus was 3/4 full, and I've heard a few riders talk about the Expo Line and hate it. They've all tried it and hate the slowness and the unreliability, and probably flocked back to the 437. LADOT now has MCI motorcoaches (Greyhound-type buses). They still smell new, and while the seats are high-backed and soft, the seats are packed tightly like on airplanes. Motorcoaches usually have good legroom. The aisle is also very narrow. Even if they built maglev, it cannot beat in speed something that moves on a wide-open freeway at 65 MPH without any stops, whether it be a personal car or a bus. Commuter Express is not for most people: * If you are going to the USC area instead of Downtown, the Expo Line will be much faster. * If you are not living near its terminal but near one of the Expo Line Stations, the Expo Line will be faster. * If you don't have a fast means to transfer to the Commuter Express terminal, the Expo Line will be faster. * At rush hour the Expo Line will still be faster. * It doesn't have the convenience of terminating inside 7th/Metro. * The headways are very long. If you miss the bus, you will be very late to work.
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Post by RMoses on Jul 19, 2012 8:27:49 GMT -8
The bad news: I didn't go with Expo to Culver City. It was the afternoon, so I tried LADOT's Commuter Express 437. It's twice as fast as the train. Also, going on the 10 didn't affect its speed at all. It went from the 10 onramp at Grand to Fairfax in 15 minutes. Also, the line has die-hards. The bus was 3/4 full, and I've heard a few riders talk about the Expo Line and hate it. They've all tried it and hate the slowness and the unreliability, and probably flocked back to the 437. LADOT now has MCI motorcoaches (Greyhound-type buses). They still smell new, and while the seats are high-backed and soft, the seats are packed tightly like on airplanes. Motorcoaches usually have good legroom. The aisle is also very narrow. Even if they built maglev, it cannot beat in speed something that moves on a wide-open freeway at 65 MPH without any stops, whether it be a personal car or a bus. Commuter Express is not for most people: * If you are going to the USC area instead of Downtown, the Expo Line will be much faster. * If you are not living near its terminal but near one of the Expo Line Stations, the Expo Line will be faster. * If you don't have a fast means to transfer to the Commuter Express terminal, the Expo Line will be faster. * At rush hour the Expo Line will still be faster. * It doesn't have the convenience of terminating inside 7th/Metro. * The headways are very long. If you miss the bus, you will be very late to work. Mostly valid, but I can assure you EB in the AM from Santa Monica and WB in the PM on the 10 will blow Expo away, even at rush hour. The door to door times are fine for now.
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Post by bzcat on Jul 19, 2012 9:48:35 GMT -8
Commuter Express 437 has its fans and I use it occasionally when I need to go to Downtown LA (e.g. jury duty at the Federal court house). Until the Regional Connector is completed, 437 will be faster if your final destination is in the northern part of Downtown LA. But clearly, if you are going to USC or near the Metro Center, Expo is probably faster during the thick of rush hour.
437 also has the advantage of running all the way to/from Marina Del Rey on Culver Blvd. If you take Expo line, you will have to transfer to/from Culver City #7, which has 30 minute headway, even during morning rush hour. So in the morning, if 437 pulls up at the bus stop at MRD before Culver #7, I'm definitely taking the 437 rather than take my chance with Culver #7.
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Post by bzcat on Jul 19, 2012 13:42:29 GMT -8
2 trains are stuck on Flower near the USC tunnel. I'm guessing ATP failure.
Bus bridge between 23rd St and Vermont station both directions.
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Post by pithecanthropus on Jul 19, 2012 18:46:25 GMT -8
Incidentally, I saw a westbound train at La Cienega dwelling for 5 minutes -- possibly because of the ATP problems in the Culver City section. It could also be because of poor coordination of turning the trains around in Culver City. How on Earth could there be so much difficulty in "turning the trains around", which I'm pretty sure you mean only in a figurative sense, since the trains are designed to reverse direction without having to physically turn around. I'm just a layperson here, but I'd like to know.
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Post by bobdavis on Jul 19, 2012 21:58:03 GMT -8
"Turning trains around" does not apply to double-ended cars (like everything Pacific Electric ever ran). "Changing ends" is the more accurate term. The only place in the LA system where trains don't change ends is downtown Long Beach.
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Post by Gokhan on Jul 19, 2012 22:33:25 GMT -8
Incidentally, I saw a westbound train at La Cienega dwelling for 5 minutes -- possibly because of the ATP problems in the Culver City section. It could also be because of poor coordination of turning the trains around in Culver City. How on Earth could there be so much difficulty in "turning the trains around", which I'm pretty sure you mean only in a figurative sense, since the trains are designed to reverse direction without having to physically turn around. I'm just a layperson here, but I'd like to know. The difficulty is that when a train approaches the end of the line, you know that it will eventually have to go back. Sure, the trains can go in either direction (forward or reverse) -- operator can walk on the platform and get into the cab at the opposite end and drive the train. But it will be on the wrong track. This creates a risk of a head-on collision with another train. There is a switch at Hayden Avenue, and the trains switch tracks there when they are going either west or east, depending on which track the train ahead of them is on. If there are already two trains ahead, obviously you cannot approach the switch and need to wait until one of them clears the switch. This is what I meant by turning the trains around. It's not that complicated but nevertheless it's not trivial either and needs to be coordinated well; otherwise, it may cause delays. Before the Culver City Station opened, they used the Hauser Blvd switch to turn the trains around. That switch is no longer needed now except for emergency operations or single-tracking when there is a problem.
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Post by transitfan on Jul 20, 2012 5:05:22 GMT -8
That's kinda bad, having the crossover that far from the station. Looks like they wanted it on the surface, rather than the elevated structure, though that has been done (Green Line at Marine Av station).
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Post by Gokhan on Jul 20, 2012 10:45:40 GMT -8
Yes, you can't have the crossovers on the elevated structures due to cost, unless it's really necessary. It would more than double the cost of the structure, as it would have to be much longer and you would also need to close the gap in between the tracks, making it about 50% wider.
I guess you could have an MSE section with the crossovers, which wouldn't be expensive, but it would be really ugly. I wonder why they didn't put it in the existing MSE section just east of Ballona Creek. Perhaps it didn't fit in.
It's also probably safer to have them at-grade.
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Post by pithecanthropus on Jul 20, 2012 12:11:40 GMT -8
"Turning trains around" does not apply to double-ended cars (like everything Pacific Electric ever ran). "Changing ends" is the more accurate term. The only place in the LA system where trains don't change ends is downtown Long Beach. I do understand that there must be more to the process than meets the eye. Having worked in software myself but knowing next to nothing about the domain of transit, I'm willing to hazard an educated guess that the difficulty is in making sure the system "knows" a particular train has had its orientation reversed. Unless that happens, we can't be 100% sure everything else along the line will work the way it's supposed to. Then again, they already had to work that out for the other lines, so it is odd that it's so difficult this time.
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Post by darrell on Jul 26, 2012 8:34:09 GMT -8
... Here's a 9/10/10 photo of the switches and crossing. Do we know which frog is the problem? I got more information last night at the Metro Citizens Advisory Council. Yes, it is the frog on the far left. The problem was wheel flanges on SB Blue Line trains were contacting the point of the frog, causing wear on the frog point and wheels. The weld metal is added to the side of the rail ahead of the frog to deflect the wheel slightly left so as to smoothly pass the frog point. And trains are slowed from 10 mph to 5 mph.
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Post by Gokhan on Jul 31, 2012 15:10:43 GMT -8
You can read the harsh letter written by CPUC to Metro/Expo here, ordering the replacement of the frog or else shutting down the southbound Blue Line through the junction.
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Post by Gokhan on Aug 20, 2012 18:50:28 GMT -8
Expo/Blue Lines mess-up this evening:
Blue + Expo Lines up to 20 min delays due to track equipment issue at Washington/Flower Junction. Follow announcements. ^ST 05:41 PM, Mon Aug 20
Trains were late and crowded as a result.
I wonder of the weld broke again.
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Post by Gokhan on Aug 20, 2012 22:03:32 GMT -8
Expo/Blue Lines mess-up this evening: Blue + Expo Lines up to 20 min delays due to track equipment issue at Washington/Flower Junction. Follow announcements. ^ST 05:41 PM, Mon Aug 20Trains were late and crowded as a result. I wonder of the weld broke again. Apparently there are recurring problems with the switches at the junction. They had to send out a guy tho throw the switches manually.
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Post by Gokhan on Aug 23, 2012 8:40:55 GMT -8
First accident on the Expo Line. Details to follow.
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Post by Gokhan on Aug 23, 2012 9:16:27 GMT -8
First accident on the Expo Line. Details to follow. From the Metro alert, it's a hit-and-run near Jefferson/Flower. Therefore, it seems to be a minor accident. I wonder why they are single-tracking. Perhaps they are holding the train? Our train from Culver City was delayed 11 minutes to the Vermont Station this morning as a result of the accident. It could be a USC student. It's a pity that USC has yet to pass around rail-safety e-mails. I'm sure a lot of the USC students don't even know that there is a train going around USC. Perhaps USC is waiting for accidents to happen so that they could ask Metro to underground the line?
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Post by Alexis Kasperavičius on Aug 23, 2012 9:51:55 GMT -8
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Post by Gokhan on Aug 23, 2012 10:50:52 GMT -8
Two of the three accidents during the testing phase of the Expo Line were caused by USC students -- a brand-new (10-minute-old) Mercedes packed with USC students running a red light at Venice Blvd / Flower St and a USC student turning left at solid red arrow at Watt Way / Exposition Blvd. There was also an older lady (non-USC) hitting a train at Crenshaw.
If this was also caused by a USC student, USC definitely needs to tell the USC students that there is now a train running around the campus. Ignorance is potentially dangerous and shouldn't be tolerated.
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Post by jamesinclair on Aug 23, 2012 12:15:52 GMT -8
Two of the three accidents during the testing phase of the Expo Line were caused by USC students -- a brand-new (10-minute-old) Mercedes packed with USC students running a red light at Venice Blvd / Flower St and a USC student turning left at solid red arrow at Watt Way / Exposition Blvd. There was also an older lady (non-USC) hitting a train at Crenshaw. If this was also caused by a USC student, USC definitely needs to tell the USC students that there is now a train running around the campus. Ignorance is potentially dangerous and shouldn't be tolerated. If the people hitting the trains are running lights, nothing can be done. They could have just as easily hit a bus or car or pedestrian. The only real change that can be made is to make it more difficult for students to bring cars to school. Higher permit rates and such. USC should definitely advertise metro passes though. Not sure if they have a subsidized program for students? Also, do expo trains have cameras that would help in catching the hit-and-run criminal? LA has a serious hit and run problem and we need stiffer penalties.
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Post by Alexis Kasperavičius on Aug 23, 2012 12:30:05 GMT -8
What's wrong with the German system? - Highways have no speed limit except during construction, and speed cameras to enforce it.
- As a result, patrol officers use their time to issue tickets for things like staying in the passing lane when not passing or tailgating.
- If you drive when drunk you must be psychologically examined and spend a year in rehab before getting it back - if ever. No guarantee.
- If you get more than 4 moving violations you lose you license. For life.
The drivers there are very careful and very respectful as a result - or they will soon no longer be a driver. Also, gas prices are about double. This all keeps the pea brains off the streets. Would such a system keep the Expo line safer? I have a feeling it might, but as having a car seems to have evolved into a "right" of sorts in Los Angeles, it seems unlikely such strict driving laws would ever be in place.
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Post by Gokhan on Aug 23, 2012 14:03:48 GMT -8
Two of the three accidents during the testing phase of the Expo Line were caused by USC students -- a brand-new (10-minute-old) Mercedes packed with USC students running a red light at Venice Blvd / Flower St and a USC student turning left at solid red arrow at Watt Way / Exposition Blvd. There was also an older lady (non-USC) hitting a train at Crenshaw. If this was also caused by a USC student, USC definitely needs to tell the USC students that there is now a train running around the campus. Ignorance is potentially dangerous and shouldn't be tolerated. If the people hitting the trains are running lights, nothing can be done. They could have just as easily hit a bus or car or pedestrian. The only real change that can be made is to make it more difficult for students to bring cars to school. Higher permit rates and such. USC should definitely advertise metro passes though. Not sure if they have a subsidized program for students? Also, do expo trains have cameras that would help in catching the hit-and-run criminal? LA has a serious hit and run problem and we need stiffer penalties. Yes to both questions. USC students (at least the graduate students) can get an $80 Metro pass for one semester. There is a dash cam on every light-rail train.
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Post by jamesinclair on Aug 23, 2012 23:10:03 GMT -8
Thats good on both
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Post by metrocenter on Aug 24, 2012 9:45:18 GMT -8
I wonder if this has been discussed. Metro is using the letter "E" inside the color circle to visually differentiate the Expo Line from the Blue Line. This is not really news, but any thoughts on this? Maybe letters for the other lines (B,G1,G2,R,P,O)? We do have two Gs (Green and Gold), BTW.
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Post by bzcat on Aug 24, 2012 9:56:16 GMT -8
I wonder if this has been discussed. Metro is using the letter "E" inside the color circle to visually differentiate the Expo Line from the Blue Line. This is not really news, but any thoughts on this? Maybe letters for the other lines (B,G1,G2,R,P,O)? We do have two Gs (Green and Gold), BTW. It has been discussed in other thread and the point raised was that since Metro will switch to names soon, the letter inside the circle won't be the color name. Metro seems to be favoring ABCDE in chronological order (e.g. A for Blue since it was the firs to open, and E for Expo since it is the last line to open). But many have suggested an alternative logical color/name scheme: E for Expo and East LA W for Wilshire H for Hollywood I for Imperial L for Long Beach F for Foothill This way, people can still call it Red line if they want but for the H in the red circle will at least mean something.
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Post by jamprit on Aug 24, 2012 11:53:41 GMT -8
I wonder if this has been discussed. Metro is using the letter "E" inside the color circle to visually differentiate the Expo Line from the Blue Line. This is not really news, but any thoughts on this? Maybe letters for the other lines (B,G1,G2,R,P,O)? We do have two Gs (Green and Gold), BTW. It has been discussed in other thread and the point raised was that since Metro will switch to names soon, the letter inside the circle won't be the color name. Metro seems to be favoring ABCDE in chronological order (e.g. A for Blue since it was the firs to open, and E for Expo since it is the last line to open). But many have suggested an alternative logical color/name scheme: E for Expo and East LA W for Wilshire H for Hollywood I for Imperial L for Long Beach F for Foothill This way, people can still call it Red line if they want but for the H in the red circle will at least mean something. I agree wholeheartedly. For an organization that is generally great at marketing, Metro would really be making a mistake to choose such an arbitrary and opaque system. Naming them after the primary destination/corridor would give a mnemonic edge to the learning process that you just don't get if you go the ABCDE route.
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K 22
Full Member
Posts: 117
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Post by K 22 on Aug 24, 2012 18:10:31 GMT -8
It has been discussed in other thread and the point raised was that since Metro will switch to names soon, the letter inside the circle won't be the color name. Metro seems to be favoring ABCDE in chronological order (e.g. A for Blue since it was the firs to open, and E for Expo since it is the last line to open). Wait, the Blue Line might become the 'A' Line? That's quite... New Yorkish.
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Post by LAofAnaheim on Aug 24, 2012 19:26:00 GMT -8
It has been discussed in other thread and the point raised was that since Metro will switch to names soon, the letter inside the circle won't be the color name. Metro seems to be favoring ABCDE in chronological order (e.g. A for Blue since it was the firs to open, and E for Expo since it is the last line to open). Wait, the Blue Line might become the 'A' Line? That's quite... New Yorkish. So we're moving away from a system adopted by Chicago, DC, Paris, London, etc...naming lines after colors/random names. Think I preferred this than the "A Train" or "Wilshire Line"....
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Post by bluelineshawn on Aug 24, 2012 20:53:37 GMT -8
So we're moving away from a system adopted by Chicago, DC, Paris, London, etc...naming lines after colors/random names. Think I preferred this than the "A Train" or "Wilshire Line".... Paris' lines are named 1, 2, 3, 4, etc. Not much different than A,B,C, etc.
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Post by matthewb on Aug 25, 2012 0:40:12 GMT -8
So we're moving away from a system adopted by Chicago, DC, Paris, London, etc...naming lines after colors/random names. Think I preferred this than the "A Train" or "Wilshire Line".... Paris' lines are named 1, 2, 3, 4, etc. Not much different than A,B,C, etc. Paris also has the RER system, which operates like a metro in the center, and like a commuter rail (but with useful frequencies) in the outskirts. Those lines are named A, B, C, D, etc. There are also tram lines which are numbered, so you could take the M4 to the RER B to the T3, which means you take the number 4 metro line to the RER line B to the tram number 3: www.ratp.fr/plan-interactif/
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