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Post by carter on May 14, 2012 13:52:03 GMT -8
My family (wife, kid and I) took Expo yesterday from Western to downtown, and back again. There were plenty of people taking the train, maybe 40 passengers. Not bad for a Sunday. The trip was very uneventful, no problems. Speed was fine, no delays (even at the junction) turnaround was fine. I was surprised that at 7th/Metro Center, Track 1 is being used for all arrivals (Blue and Expo) and Track 2 is being used for all departures (Blue and Expo). When the service began, they were using Track 1 for Blue Line (arrivals and departures), and Track 2 for Expo Line (arrivals and departures). I wonder which of these configurations makes the most sense from a user viewpoint. Better signage could help remove confusion, especially for less-frequent riders. I think the argument for both departing on Platform 2 is that if you're going to Pico station, you can take whichever train arrives first. But as you note, if they do it this way, then it's key to make it clear which train is which.
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Post by bzcat on May 14, 2012 14:31:10 GMT -8
My family (wife, kid and I) took Expo yesterday from Western to downtown, and back again. There were plenty of people taking the train, maybe 40 passengers. Not bad for a Sunday. The trip was very uneventful, no problems. Speed was fine, no delays (even at the junction) turnaround was fine. I was surprised that at 7th/Metro Center, Track 1 is being used for all arrivals (Blue and Expo) and Track 2 is being used for all departures (Blue and Expo). When the service began, they were using Track 1 for Blue Line (arrivals and departures), and Track 2 for Expo Line (arrivals and departures). I wonder which of these configurations makes the most sense from a user viewpoint. Better signage could help remove confusion, especially for less-frequent riders. That only happened on opening weekend. And the reason was because Expo was "free ride", they wanted to control the flow of crowd that had to tap in (Blue/Red/Purple) and people that just walked in for Expo. It was always planned from the beginning to operate Blue and Expo on the same side for arrival and departures. In fact, they had to cover up the permanent signage (Blue & Expo vs. Red & Purple) with paper print outs for the opening weekend.
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Post by JerardWright on May 23, 2012 13:39:23 GMT -8
As I've ridden the 9:11pm train from 7th Street Metro Center everyday so far, I must say that the difference in speed of the train, depends on who's operating the train and their comfort and confidence in operating the line. This run makes the trip from 7th Street to Expo/Vermont at or one minute ahead of schedule consistently with no delay.
I asked the operator of this line how he's able to make the schedule time and why others haven't been able to and he tells me that he was one of the testing operators of the Expo Line before it opened so he's very familiar with how the signals work and when to proceed with the lights.
My point in all this is give it time some operators are more advanced in operating the line than others and as with all things there's a learning curve to where once its in the groove for a while those bugs always get worked out.
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Post by Elson on May 23, 2012 13:56:39 GMT -8
One USC student that I spoke with last week mentioned that very few people at USC that he's spoken with are even aware of Expo. Anyway hopefully things are running much better in a few months when school starts back. As a USC alum, this doesn't surprise me. Most USC students are either international students or come from outside Southern California (ironically), They all fell prey to the "You need a car to get around LA" mantra before they even arrived here. USC students do ride bicycles, but only on or around campus. They do carpool to go places outside of school, such as DTLA. It's been some two decades since I went there, so I don't know how the school is promoting the Expo Line to their students. I know staff is already taking to it. Incidentally, when I was a USC student 20 years ago, I wrote the first article in the campus newspaper, The Daily Trojan, about a proposed light rail line that would directly serve USC. It was meant to be only 1.5 miles and go from 7th St/Metro Center to Exposition & Vermont, and open at the earliest in 1996. Here's the story behind it, plus scans of my original article: elsongeles.elsongs.com/?p=1303
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Post by jamesinclair on May 23, 2012 19:53:09 GMT -8
One USC student that I spoke with last week mentioned that very few people at USC that he's spoken with are even aware of Expo. Anyway hopefully things are running much better in a few months when school starts back. As a USC alum, this doesn't surprise me. Most USC students are either international students or come from outside Southern California (ironically), They all fell prey to the "You need a car to get around LA" mantra before they even arrived here. USC students do ride bicycles, but only on or around campus. They do carpool to go places outside of school, such as DTLA. It's been some two decades since I went there, so I don't know how the school is promoting the Expo Line to their students. I know staff is already taking to it. Incidentally, when I was a USC student 20 years ago, I wrote the first article in the campus newspaper, The Daily Trojan, about a proposed light rail line that would directly serve USC. It was meant to be only 1.5 miles and go from 7th St/Metro Center to Exposition & Vermont, and open at the earliest in 1996. Here's the story behind it, plus scans of my original article: elsongeles.elsongs.com/?p=1303The Daily Trojan for the past 5 years has written against the expo line and against cycling generally. One downside to the line for USC is that in runs in a "back alley" related to the campus, as it heads north. The station is against the highway in a depressed area, and not really visible to students who live in a bubble. Ironically, those who drive may be more familiar with the line than those who walk around campus.
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Post by ieko on May 24, 2012 8:10:21 GMT -8
FYI Was chatting with colleagues at Metro, Expo ridership is thought to be in the 12,000 range.
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Post by davebowman on May 24, 2012 10:37:48 GMT -8
The prior USC administration was against the Expo Line, at least at-grade, but I don't think the USC community as a whole was that aware of it or felt that strongly about it while it was in the planning stages. Campus activity is very much oriented towards the commercial and residential areas to the north of Jefferson, and, except for football games, USC faculty, staff, and students have not had much reason to think about what is going on in the direction of Exposition Park.
Now that the Expo Line is running I know of USC staff who take it to work every day, but it opened right after spring classes ended and the campus population is much smaller in the summer. Also, staff who commute by rail from outlying areas and transfer at Union Station can take a shuttle bus directly to USC rather than switch to the Red/Purple line and then Expo. The Downtown Connector will make a big diffference.
USC Transportation has discontinued its free shuttle to L.A. Live now that students can take the Expo Line, and when they come back to school in August I think a lot of them will realize it's a lot cheaper to take the Expo Line to major entertainment districts rather than drive and pay for parking, and they won't have to worry about how much they have to drink, texting en route, etc. This week's Sports Illustrated has an article about the cluster of events at Staples Center last week and the new vibe in that part of downtown LA, and mentions the newly-opened Expo Line and the absence of traffic jams. So it seems like the Expo Line has had its coming out party. The next game-changer (no pun intended) will be the first USC football game at the Coliseum on Labor Day weekend.
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Post by Elson on May 24, 2012 12:20:13 GMT -8
When I was a student at USC in the 1990s, the urban planning school's dean at the time was VERY libertarian, anti-public transit, anti-growth. When the media would get USC's planning school to quote on anything related to transit, the cookie-cutter response would be, "Rail is a waste of money, it will never get people out of their cars, blah blah blah..."
I haven't followed up with the activities of the planning school, but I think things have improved since then, what with the huge developments going on near campus.
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Post by davebowman on May 24, 2012 15:44:42 GMT -8
As a staff person, I rarely heard co-workers talk about the Expo Line when it was originally proposed and then planned. I think it caught my attention because I've been here long enough to remember the freight trains going down Exposition when I was a student, and then I somehow heard about the friends4expo website . USC is gradually replacing parking areas on campus with new buildings, and the Master Plan calls for reducing the traffic flow on Jefferson when University Village is redeveloped, so I think supporting alternative transit options has become inevitable for the largest private enployer in LA. For people who have to park at the Parking Center on the other side of the 110, taking the Expo Line may become more convenient because they can get off the train closer to campus and won't have to take a shuttle bus.
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Post by masonite on May 24, 2012 20:43:46 GMT -8
FYI Was chatting with colleagues at Metro, Expo ridership is thought to be in the 12,000 range. Well, that was my guess for May However, I think this line will vary depending on events such as a game or concert at Staples. I know Roger Waters at the Coliseum attracted quite a few people. I'd imagine a few thousand. Also, the weekend ridership may be as high as the weekday - we'll see. They really need to go with the 12 minute headways until 8:00 p.m. when the line reaches Culver City. Just think of people getting off work at 6:00 and taking a bus to reach the line by 6:40. They then have to wait up to 20 minutes. I imagine they will figure this out soon enough given the upgrade for some of the other lines headways until 12:00.
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Post by Gokhan on May 24, 2012 22:30:02 GMT -8
It started with 9,000 and 12,000 was my guess for the current ridership earlier today. Therefore, there hasn't been a major increase in ridership yet. As I also mentioned, the La Cienega parking structure occupancy have stayed constant for the last couple of weeks at 40%.
Expect a jump when the Culver Junction and Farmdale Stations open. There should be another jump when the Fall semester at USC starts in late August.
The real jump will happen only when Phase 2 opens. We will also have the brand-new Kinki Sharyo's then, which should attract more people.
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Post by spokker on May 26, 2012 20:45:04 GMT -8
Oh man, the operator on my Expo Line train was really fighting the system today. Multiple times I heard, "BEEP BEEP BEEP BEEP BEEP." before the train would slow to a stop. Then he would proceed. This happened throughout the trip.
Also, I thought this was only Expo, but I noticed some light rail trains stopped at gated intersections. I noticed this on the Expo Line, Gold Line and Blue Line (I rode all three today). Gated intersections that are normally just blown through, trains are stopping before proceeding. Anyone else notice this?
I don't mean they stop at every intersection, but on the Gold Line the Southbound train stopped at Mission before crossing the street and proceeding into the station, and on the Blue Line the Southbound train stopped at a different gated intersection about two blocks before a station. I remember feeling weird about the stop because I knew it wasn't during street-running.
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Post by bluelineshawn on May 26, 2012 21:27:19 GMT -8
They have to stop if the gates aren't functioning properly. Sometimes you can see that one arm is missing or doesn't come down all the way, but sometimes it's nothing obvious. They also stop if pedestrians walk in the way or stand inside the gates, but you'll hear the horn when that happens.
The beeps are when they are exceeding the speed limit, unless there was some problem or fault. The operator probably just had red signals for some reason and was decelerating too slowly so the beeps went off.
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Post by jamesinclair on May 27, 2012 18:07:19 GMT -8
It started with 9,000 and 12,000 was my guess for the current ridership earlier today. Therefore, there hasn't been a major increase in ridership yet. As I also mentioned, the La Cienega parking structure occupancy have stayed constant for the last couple of weeks at 40%. Expect a jump when the Culver Junction and Farmdale Stations open. There should be another jump when the Fall semester at USC starts in late August. The real jump will happen only when Phase 2 opens. We will also have the brand-new Kinki Sharyo's then, which should attract more people. Jumps are fun, but the real increase comes from gradual acceptance of the line, as weve seen from two years of gold line increases after the extension.
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Post by Gokhan on May 29, 2012 8:27:21 GMT -8
The beeps come from the Automatic Train Protection (ATP) console in front of the operator. ATP console has several speed-limit settings shown to the operator by their indicator lights next to them -- 10, 25, 35, and 55 MPH. These limits are read from the track circuits as cab signals. Everytime the cab enters into a new speed zone and a new cab signal is detected, ATP switches into the new speed limit, and the console beeps once. If the operator exceeds the speed limit somehow, brakes are automatically applied and the train comes to a full stop. Then, the operator needs to reset the system before the train can move again. Multiple beeps are heard when that happens.
Unfortunately, ATP doesn't work too well with the veteran Nippon Sharyo's and at many times the cab signals aren't properly received and the system applies the brakes. You will then hear constant beeps and the operator will fight with the ATP in order to move the train, with the brakes constantly being applied and released by ATP, he has to move the control level back and forth to make things work.
Note that if there is a train ahead nearby, ATP will apply the brakes and the operator will have to go very slowly. On that note, Tom Jasmin of Metro was telling me how impressive the train circuits were in Culver City, them being able to operate twotest trains nose-to-nose with only three feet gap at 35 MPH or more.
The gated crossings have signal preemption and the train normally doesn't stop or slow down. Most are 55 MPH but Hauser is 35 MPH due to a crossover and Farmdale is 10 MPH. The operator will stop only if there is a hazard.
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Post by spokker on May 29, 2012 14:01:05 GMT -8
Yeah, it was ATP. The operator's controls were beeping like crazy, and the entire train would slow to a stop. And yes, it was a Nippon Sharyo car. The operator would simply reset the throttle and keep going after every multiple succession of beeps. This happened a bunch of times between La Cienega and Downtown.
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Post by joemagruder on May 29, 2012 20:50:51 GMT -8
The weekly Transit Coalition newsletter referred to a Los Angeles Times article about design problems in the Blue Line/Expo Line junction that were causing abnormal wheel wear. Does anybody know what the problem is? E.g., Radius too tight, guard rails in the wrong location, gauge on the curves wrong....? People have been designing these types of junctions for more than a century now.
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Post by LAofAnaheim on May 30, 2012 11:16:23 GMT -8
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Post by carter on May 30, 2012 11:55:36 GMT -8
I've had a chance to look at the changes in some detail and they all seem like no-brainers to me. The one potential challenge coming up to bus service in general is going to be the traffic impacts of constructing the column for the Venice Blvd bridge. But, obviously, the short-term pain is worth the long-term gain.
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Post by LAofAnaheim on May 31, 2012 9:37:42 GMT -8
The Expo Line between Jefferson station and 7th street/Metro Center (especially northbound track) sucks!
This is the reason light rail gets a bad perception in LA. It's a freakin' trolley! Each day I've taken it over last month and it stops at nearly every stoplight along the way. The cars on the I-110 freeway northbound, even with traffic, go faster than the Expo Line! Those drivers probably look out the window and go "ah....that's why I don't take Metro in LA".
I know there is a problem with synchronization when the track has 2 trains on Flower street, but c'mon....if Washington blvd was significantly improved with the Blue Line, the same can be done with Flower street and the Expo Line. Very bad perception of light rail and Metro in LA in general.
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Post by Philip on May 31, 2012 10:14:29 GMT -8
I managed to take the line again two weeks ago. It took almost 35 minutes to get from La Cienega to 7th St. In that amount of time, I should be almost or more than half way through Phase 2 of the line (when it's eventually finished) going west.
I know the line is still new and they are trying to play it safe, but as others have said time and again; L.A. is not new to light-rail anymore. These are issues that should have been handled long before opening the line.
We already have one line in Los Angeles with speed issues (the Gold line, though it is improving). We do not need another.
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Post by LAofAnaheim on May 31, 2012 10:44:53 GMT -8
It's unbelievable that the Expo Line can go speedy through suburban districts of LA, but when it hits the urban inner core (north of USC), it slows down. Isn't the point of rail to speed you through the congested areas?
Some serious significant improvement is needed with the Expo Line speed issues. I've seen many impatient faces on the Expo Line on Flower street.
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Post by LAofAnaheim on May 31, 2012 12:07:06 GMT -8
We already have one line in Los Angeles with speed issues (the Gold line, though it is improving). We do not need another. The Gold Line Eastside extension has had some speed improvements since opening. I've noticed it going faster on the 101 flyover, 1st street and 3rd street (before Civic Center station).
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Post by spokker on May 31, 2012 15:15:16 GMT -8
Real signal preemption, not just synchronization, is needed. You just have to convince the powers that be that trains are more important than cars.
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Post by bluelineshawn on May 31, 2012 16:11:34 GMT -8
Real signal preemption, not just synchronization, is needed. You just have to convince the powers that be that trains are more important than cars. I have so many problems with that I hardly know where to start, but how about we start with pedestrians. Are they supposed to have extended waits just like the people in cars? It's really nowhere near as simple as you portray.
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Post by rubbertoe on May 31, 2012 16:46:02 GMT -8
The pre-emption in Pasadena on the 3 gated streets (glenarm, California, del mar) is complete. Every single train has absolute priority. Even a very large hospital 1 block away has no effect on the train priority. Ambulances wait for the trains.
During rush hours 2 of those streets are really busy. I tend to think that unless there is a "very" compelling case, light rail should have priority. The gold line has 6 minute headways during rush hour, I believe that is the same as the combined blue/expo north of the junction but I may have that wrong.
RT
Sent from my DROID RAZR using ProBoards
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Post by tonyw79sfv on May 31, 2012 20:18:45 GMT -8
Actually, the combined trunk headway of Blue and Expo Lines serving Pico and 7th/Metro Center is either 3 minutes between Blue and Expo Line services or 6 minutes between Blue Line services with this cadence: Expo, Blue, Blue, Expo, Blue, Blue, Expo... The pre-emption in Pasadena on the 3 gated streets (glenarm, California, del mar) is complete. Every single train has absolute priority. Even a very large hospital 1 block away has no effect on the train priority. Ambulances wait for the trains. During rush hours 2 of those streets are really busy. I tend to think that unless there is a "very" compelling case, light rail should have priority. The gold line has 6 minute headways during rush hour, I believe that is the same as the combined blue/expo north of the junction but I may have that wrong. RT Sent from my DROID RAZR using ProBoards
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Post by LAofAnaheim on Jun 1, 2012 8:30:45 GMT -8
I have so many problems with that I hardly know where to start, but how about we start with pedestrians. Are they supposed to have extended waits just like the people in cars? It's really nowhere near as simple as you portray. Why is it a problem that you have signal priority for a train, probably carrying between 60 - 100 people? Gates come down for a minute max. It's more important to let the 5 or 6 pedestrians or 10 cars go through? Don't you want to move the greater amount of people faster?
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Post by LAofAnaheim on Jun 1, 2012 9:18:39 GMT -8
Nobody truely knows when Culver City station is suppose to open. I talked to a rail ambassador at Pico station and La Cienega station. The La Cienega station worker told me the planned opening of Culver City is "June 28" and Pico station worker told me "2 more months". Until we hear anything from the Source, Metro release or Mayor Villairaigosa.........we don't know when Culver City and Farmdale stations will open.
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Post by masonite on Jun 1, 2012 9:48:09 GMT -8
Real signal preemption, not just synchronization, is needed. You just have to convince the powers that be that trains are more important than cars. I have so many problems with that I hardly know where to start, but how about we start with pedestrians. Are they supposed to have extended waits just like the people in cars? It's really nowhere near as simple as you portray. I am not sure what the answer is. However, 35 minutes from La Cienega when the schedule says 26 is not acceptable. That is a 35% difference in time. People take rail for a reliable fast ride. This line is an expensive bus from USC to Downtown right now and ridership is suffering because of it. Even though I live on the Westside and frequent Downtown from time to time, I have yet to ride a regular service run because 35 minutes is just too long, especially with 20 minute headways after 6:00 p.m. It was supposed to be 35-36 minutes from Bundy. When it opens to Culver City, which is easier to access, I will certainly ride though. Not sure what they can do in the meantime to speed this thing up without any structural changes.
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