expo
Junior Member
Posts: 71
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Post by expo on Sept 5, 2017 12:14:15 GMT -8
No argument there. The ridership growth (from 43k to 63k daily riders) shows how Expo riders responded to increased service frequency (6-minute peak headways) and adequate capacity (3-car trains from 5 AM til 9 PM). I'm convinced that if Metro and the cities could solve the reliability, signal priority and communications problems, ridership would quickly improve to ~75-80k daily riders. Completely agreed.
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Post by RMoses on Sept 5, 2017 12:17:54 GMT -8
Metro's experimental period for Expo is over, they need to get their act together.
- Full fare control and/or fare enforcement on the train - Get rid of Farmdale ASAP - 3 Track from Blue Line junction to Metro Center - Full grade separation from USC to MC
Go north and mimic LINK in Seattle to see how a Light Rail operation should be designed and operated.
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Post by metrocenter on Sept 6, 2017 12:45:03 GMT -8
- 3 Track from Blue Line junction to Metro Center - Full grade separation from USC to MC Hear hear! Expo should have three tracks from Jefferson station to Metro Center, and the same for Blue Line from Washington station to 7MC. And, both lines should be fully grade-separated along those stretches. These are critical track corridors. The extra track is needed for redundancy, and car/bike/ped crossings need to be removed from the equation. Just imagine: the Expo Line reliably moving people from Jefferson to Metro Center in six minutes total. The mind reels!
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Post by tramfan on Sept 19, 2017 12:56:39 GMT -8
I'm living close to Military and Exposition and I have noticed that since Monday the trains are blasting their horns in the Federal Railroad Administration's requirement of two long, one short and one long blasts. Before last weekend it seemed that it was up to the operator's discretion especially at night and early morning to do two very short and discrete blasts (and sometimes at night nothing at all). I know that the Metro's LTR lines are officially railroad right of ways but it seems to be a little bit over-zealous to have to do these federally required blasts in dense populated neighborhoods.. I fully understand that especially at "real" railroad crossings where the frequency of trains is much lower that this blasting needs to be done to warn about an approaching train. But with headways of 6 minutes that result in trains crossing every 3 minutes this becomes really ridiculous and severely impacts the peace and quiet of people living close to the tracks.
Metro must find a solution for this. Or does this become a federal undertaking changing railroad safety rules that with this "new" kind of transportation blossoming. There definitely needs to be a diversification in what kind of crossings we're dealing with. The archaic rules that were probably not revisited in more than 100 years since the proliferation of railroads through the country, need to have an amendment that excludes urban LRT with a frequency of more than 5 trains an hour.
Knowing that the wheels of the legislative machinery are very slow and not easy to change I think Metro should apply for federally approved "quiet zones" for all its current and future crossings in high density urban neighborhoods. For my Westwood neighborhood I will certainly set this in motion with the neighborhood council and HOA's.
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Post by transitfan on Sept 20, 2017 5:51:51 GMT -8
Maybe they could make them like Spring St in Long Beach, "gong (bell) only". Still a warning, but not as loud as a blaring horn. Only pedestrians/traffic in the immediate vicinty of the tracks need to be warned, not someone in a house 3 blocks away.
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f ron
Full Member
Posts: 222
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Post by f ron on Sept 20, 2017 12:26:00 GMT -8
Unfortunately we're describing a situation where people are living significantly less than a block away from the horns and crossing bells.
This is a profoundly serious matter and if Metro wants to expand the rail network more and more through neighborhoods and other places like commercial thoroughfares where people live then its something that must be dealt with.
As someone who attended many of Metro's public outreaches to the community I can say it's a matter that they at best downplay and at worst completely ignore in their sales pitch.
Transit activists love to get out the brush and tar any reasonable objection to a rail project as NIMBYism and thus underserving of merit. As the word begins to circulate how the presence of trains in communities can be deeply disruptive to the peace there will be more and more pushback by the community in advance of these projects.
I will say to Metro's credit many of the noise issues are being dealt with in the post construction phase (though wouldn't it have been better to actually take these issues into account during the design of a system?). In the area tramfam describes all the bells have been adjusted and baffled to more discreetly direct the 85dB sounds. Along the Northvale trench five additional automated track lubricators have been installed bringing the total to 9 (!) along the short segment between the I-10 and Overland Avenue (the sound of wheel squeal has been intolerable for the past 18 months). They're not all operational. Testing begins next week. Yet, there's plenty more work to be done.
Tramfam's point is well made These sounds (and they are loud) come all too frequently —anywhere from once every three minutes to once every 10 minutes depending on the time of day for 22 hours a day, And that doesn't account for dead-heading during the off hours.
Many of us love our neighborhood —especially because of the amenities that come with having light rail nearby— yet many of us question whether the system that's being built fully takes into account the impact within the neighborhoods which the system is meant to serve. The design and execution of the Expo Line, for example, suggests to me that it doesn't. Not in regard to noise impacts.
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Post by tramfan on Sept 20, 2017 13:06:17 GMT -8
The suggestion of Transition would be a great solution. The problem is however that the LTR lines of Metro ride in different modes: there are portions that are railroad ROW and there are portions like Spring Street in Long Beach, portions of downtown for Expo and Blue line, Colorado Street in Santa Monica for Expo and parts of South Pasadena for the Gold line that are urban streetcar tracks where the use of bells instead of horns can be applied to whatever the train operator fancies to do. But when you're dealing with crossing gates the line becomes an official railroad and then the Federal Railroad Administration rules are applicable and legally Metro operators need to follow those.
I bought my house close to the Expo line tracks because I wanted to be able to use the train instead of my car(s). As a former inhabitant of Amsterdam in the Netherlands where streetcars are a perfect public transportation solution, I was used to the noise of passing trains. So when the Expo line became reality and the opportunity to buy a house close to it I went to several crossings of then operational Metro LTR's to check the noise level at crossings. At that time I did not find or recognized the sound of the horns annoying so I bought the house. Double paned windows did mitigate the noise somewhat and Metro was very diligent and responsive to complaints about the sound of the electronic bells at the crossing but the horns and the different ways operators choose to use these noise makers is still affecting the quality of life negatively.
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Post by metrocenter on Sept 21, 2017 8:38:10 GMT -8
In Long Beach the Blue Line has become significantly loader with its horn blasts. Some directive must have gone out.
Seems to me the easiest (and ultimately cheapest) safety solution is to equip every intersection with fully-closing gates to keep cars and pedestrians out when the train goes by. I know it's not really "cheap", but better than (1) alienating all the nearby residents, and (2) having to constantly pay out settlements to crash victims.
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expo
Junior Member
Posts: 71
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Post by expo on Sept 21, 2017 11:46:46 GMT -8
Seems to me the easiest (and ultimately cheapest) safety solution is to equip every intersection with fully-closing gates to keep cars and pedestrians out when the train goes by. I know it's not really "cheap", but better than (1) alienating all the nearby residents, and (2) having to constantly pay out settlements to crash victims. But that is already true for this stretch. The only crossings are Sepulveda (grade separated), Military, and Westwood (both 4-way closing gates with pedestrian gates). Why is this not a quiet zone?
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Post by tramfan on Sept 21, 2017 12:22:41 GMT -8
Quiet Zones need to be applied for to the Federal Railroad administration. Since Metro did not apply for these crossing to be Quiet Zones or is not right agency to do so we're still saddled up with these arcane rules that should not apply to frequent urban transportation. I'm not sure but I think that only the people or their representatives that live close to these crossings can actually apply for a Quiet Zone. It is a very long and laborious process unless there are some short cuts I do not know about.
Furthermore I think that Metro operators do not have a clear directive as what to use - horns or bells - where and when. It would be interesting to know if Metro actually has written rules that operators have to follow or are they merely suggestions? In a car you are officially only allowed to use your horn to avoid a dangerous situation; but we all know that car horns are mostly used to vent a driver's frustration or irritation.
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f ron
Full Member
Posts: 222
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Post by f ron on Sept 21, 2017 13:34:09 GMT -8
I would think there would be directives by Metro for the operators. Whether or not these directives are heeded is another matter. Tramfam, have you contacted Metro directly with your questions and concerns? I've learned from direct experience that persistance pays —perhaps not in large dividends nor in great frequency but over time enough to have a fuller understanding of what's going on.
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Post by tramfan on Sept 26, 2017 12:33:35 GMT -8
So I took the train to downtown this morning. At 7.30 AM we waited for a Blue line train to turn onto Washington and when we finally went through there were three 3car trains waiting to get through that intersection as well. Is anybody from LADOT on this? Make the calculation of how many people were waiting on the rails and how many were getting through in their car.
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Post by exporider on Oct 4, 2017 9:24:44 GMT -8
I created a chart that illustrates ridership growth on Expo before and after Phase 2 opened. I tried to upload it as an attachment to this thread. I got an error message stating that "This forum has exceeded its attachment space limit. This file can't be uploaded." The file that I tried to attach was pretty small, less than 50kb. Is this a common problem on this forum? I've seen other contributors include images in their posts, but I've never tried to attach an image myself until today. Thanks.
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Post by tramfan on Oct 9, 2017 12:43:53 GMT -8
Is the designation at 7th Street MC of Expo on platform 1 and Blue on platform 2 now a done deal until the opening of the Regional Connector?
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Post by fissure on Oct 9, 2017 20:06:33 GMT -8
The better question is: if it's the new way of doing things, will they take down all the "no boarding this platform" signs before the connector opens, or just cover them up half-assedly for the whole 4 years?
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Post by exporider on Oct 10, 2017 10:44:15 GMT -8
Exciting news! (For transit geeks, that is.) For the first time in years, Metro Ridership Stats have been updated to reflect recently collected data for Passenger Miles on Metro rail lines. This means that we can now update what we know about average trip lengths on those rail lines. FYI: For the past few years, the data in the Passenger Miles columns just showed the product of the ridership stats times a constant value of average trips length that was years out of date.
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Post by exporider on Oct 10, 2017 10:49:21 GMT -8
The new ridership data shows that the average overall trip length for all rail routes has increased by more than 10 percent, from 5.60 to 6.25 miles per unlinked trip. For Expo the average jumped from 4.18 to 6.49 miles with the opening of Phase 2 to Santa Monica, and for the Gold Line the average jumped from 6.01 to 8.29 miles with the extension to Azusa.
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Post by metrocenter on Oct 13, 2017 12:52:47 GMT -8
Average is 6.25 miles across all routes? Wow my 17-mile Blue Line commute is a long-distance ride!
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Post by tramfan on Oct 13, 2017 13:01:27 GMT -8
A malfunction of the Expoline signaling caused a major headache especially for car traffic this morning during rush hour. All crossings between Palms and Bundy were closed because they are operated by the signaling/track control. Trains were going at a very low speed because they had to be waved through the crossings by Metro personnel. Sawtele and Sepulveda were the only places where car traffic could go North-South. The friendly Metro personal waved me on my bike through so my commute was not affected but I guess there were a lot of ticked off drivers and train riders.
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expo
Junior Member
Posts: 71
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Post by expo on Nov 14, 2017 15:59:51 GMT -8
Can any regular riders report on the 18th street crossing gate? Is it operational without Metro staff now? Working properly? Metro has indicated that if the crossing gate reduces collisions there, they will remove the positive stop. That could shorten travel time a decent amount if it allows trains to catch the 18th street green light!
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Post by tramfan on Nov 15, 2017 13:53:01 GMT -8
This morning I rode in car 1099 on the Expo line. I guess soon or maybe already there is # 1100...
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expo
Junior Member
Posts: 71
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Post by expo on Jan 5, 2018 12:43:18 GMT -8
Any update on the 18th street crossing gate?
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Post by thanks4goingmetro on Jan 10, 2018 14:26:01 GMT -8
Any update on the 18th street crossing gate? There was staff there the first week, a while ago. It’s a lone crossing arm operating on its own now.
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expo
Junior Member
Posts: 71
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Post by expo on Feb 2, 2018 10:18:05 GMT -8
I moved a bit further from the expo line about 6 months ago and haven't ridden it since. Can any regular rider give an update on its performance? Have things improved since the first half of 2017?
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Post by metrocenter on Aug 14, 2019 12:54:22 GMT -8
Since 22 June, the downtown segment of Expo has been closed. The purpose is to replace trackwork and overhead catenary, as part of the Blue Line improvement project (“New Blue”). Metro had announced this as a 60-day closure.
Well, 60 days is almost up: that brings us to next Wednesday (21 August). And Metro has not mentioned an Expo reopening date. 7th/Metro and Pico stations do not look like they are even close to done.
Has anybody heard anything?
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Post by numble on Aug 14, 2019 20:35:59 GMT -8
Since 22 June, the downtown segment of Expo has been closed. The purpose is to replace trackwork and overhead catenary, as part of the Blue Line improvement project (“New Blue”). Metro had announced this as a 60-day closure. Well, 60 days is almost up: that brings us to next Wednesday (21 August). And Metro has not mentioned an Expo reopening date. 7th/Metro and Pico stations do not look like they are even close to done. Has anybody heard anything? The schedule was just posted, seems it will start up on 24 August (Saturday).
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Post by masonite on Aug 14, 2019 21:33:38 GMT -8
Since 22 June, the downtown segment of Expo has been closed. The purpose is to replace trackwork and overhead catenary, as part of the Blue Line improvement project (“New Blue”). Metro had announced this as a 60-day closure. Well, 60 days is almost up: that brings us to next Wednesday (21 August). And Metro has not mentioned an Expo reopening date. 7th/Metro and Pico stations do not look like they are even close to done. Has anybody heard anything? The schedule was just posted, seems it will start up on 24 August (Saturday). Looks like 46 min EB and 47 WB. I want to say that is a minute faster than before. I know at one time it was 47 and 48 min. Not sure if it was adjusted down before now though as I don’t look at the schedules.
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Post by numble on Aug 19, 2019 9:35:43 GMT -8
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Post by metrocenter on Aug 19, 2019 16:10:22 GMT -8
I'm sure Expo riders will be happy about that. And for Blue Line riders like me, it's a reason to be optimistic that Metro might actually reopen the Blue Line on time (by the end of next month).
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Post by metrocenter on Oct 1, 2019 8:44:18 GMT -8
When Crenshaw opens next year, I predict the Expo Line is going to be at crush capacity every day, unless they can increase their bandwidth (trains-per-hour).
Metro could "wait and see". The problem with "wait and see" is that on those first days, people will be trying Crenshaw+Expo for the first time, and they will remember that first experience. If their first experience is having to squish in like a sardine, and constantly starting/stopping at every cross street, many of those folks will not return for week 2.
No, Metro needs to increase the number of Expo trains now. Request the budget for it now. Get signal preemption now. Work out the operational stuff on Flower Street now.
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