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Post by bzcat on Apr 14, 2014 10:28:51 GMT -8
Took the Expo line to the Book Festival at USC on Sunday. Seemed like Metro was running 5 minutes headways (or less?) instead of the usual 10 or 12 minutes.
We got to the Culver City platform just as a train was pulling out so we went inside the other train. Then we discovered that my son left his shoes in the car so I went back down to get them. I was at the bottom of the stairs (not yet reaching the parking lot) and the train I was just in pulled out of the station with my wife and son - about 5 minutes after the previous train left. I got the shoes and went back to the platform, and 2 minutes later another train arrived. I got in, and in 2 minutes after it arrived, it left Culver City.
On our way back to Culver City, we missed the west bound train because we were being held up by the crosswalk signal (no cars were coming on Exposition but I didn't want to jaywalk right in front a Sheriff deputy). We got to the platform and not even 3 minutes passed before the next train arrived. However, it looks like we were the only passengers in this train because we boarded an empty car at USC and no one else boarded the car for the entire ride to Culver City.
Long story short: Expo was running really short headways on Sunday.
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Post by bluelineshawn on Apr 15, 2014 16:41:15 GMT -8
Yeah I rode Expo on Saturday and noticed the increased frequency, but I didn't realize that it was for the festival of books (which I'm guessing it was given that it was both days). Also the number of riders on my late morning DTLA bound train was very light.
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Post by transitfan on Apr 16, 2014 7:03:13 GMT -8
That explains all the tents I kept seeing on Tommy Cam over the weekend (that page is my main page on my browsers at home).
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Post by Gokhan on May 6, 2014 16:44:44 GMT -8
Just missed one westbound train because it was 3 min early and the next one came 5 min early. Have they fixed the Flower St section or was it just a glitch?
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Post by Gokhan on May 7, 2014 9:10:31 GMT -8
Just missed one westbound train because it was 3 min early and the next one came 5 min early. Have they fixed the Flower St section or was it just a glitch? More than likely an irregularity, as there was no train at Culver City. It looks like one train didn't make it and the other trains were leaving early to make up for it.
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Post by Gokhan on May 9, 2014 16:51:18 GMT -8
Official info from Metro:
Blue + Expo Long Beach Yard total number of cars: 92 Blue + Expo number of 3-car trains running during peak hours: 25 Blue + Expo hot emergency spare train waiting at 7th/Metro: 1 Blue + Expo total no. of hot trains: 26 Blue + Expo no. of cold spare cars: 1 or 2 Blue + Expo no. of cars in maintenance or repair: 12 or 13
My calculations:
Blue Line no. of trains running between LA and Willow with 6-min headways: 15 Blue Line no. of trains running between Willow and LB with 12-min headways: 3 Expo Line no. of trains running between LA and CC with 12-minute headways: 6 Expo Line no. of trains running between LA and SM with 12-min headways: 8 or 9 Blue + Expo hot emergency train at 7th/Metro: 1
Blue + Expo to CC number of trains running during peak hours: 25 Blue + Expo to SM number of trains running during peak hours: 27 or 28
So, the long story short, Metro is running perhaps 1 more train than they need to, partly due to a long layover at Culver City, partly due to in case some train is delayed on the way, and partly because the turnback at 7th/Metro is slow.
They need 2 or 3 more trains to run Expo Phase 2. So, it looks like they need about 6 more cars. One complaint by Metro is that the LADOT signal timing is so awful and some trains are late if they aren't lucky with the signals.
Note that Blue and Expo headways need to be integer multiples of each other. 5 and 5, 5 and 10, 6 and 12, etc.
Green Line requires 10 2-car trains and perhaps one 2-car hot spare train. Current Green Line inventory: 29 cars. So, Green Line seems to have some extra cars.
Some bad news: Santa Monica Station will be problematic. After all the design changes, final design didn't allow any section of tail track at all and the bumpers will be located immediately at the end of the platform where the trains will stop. This means that the westbound trains will have to crawl into the platform to avoid hitting the bumper. Thank you City of Santa Monica!
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Post by joshuanickel on May 9, 2014 21:22:00 GMT -8
Official info from Metro: Some bad news: Santa Monica Station will be problematic. After all the design changes, final design didn't allow any section of tail track at all and the bumpers will be located immediately at the end of the platform where the trains will stop. This means that the westbound trains will have to crawl into the platform to avoid hitting the bumper. Thank you City of Santa Monica! I am not that surprised by this. Ever design that expo has come up with for this station has not had any sort of tail track. The problem is the size of the property. That was one of the reasons for the third track. I do have to say, the current design should help solve some of the problem. The train now only has a slight curve going in to the station. If they had it as they did in the old design, the train would of had a bigger turn in to the station which would be even slower. I imaging the slow part will be between 6th street and the station which is two blocks. You have the crossover there so you already have trains slowing down to switch tracks and going through the 5th street intersection to the station
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Post by joemagruder on May 17, 2014 21:23:32 GMT -8
I wonder at what point the Expo Line's total passenger count will surpass the PE's Air Line passenger count - or probably at what point the passenger count surpassed...
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Post by Gokhan on May 18, 2014 12:55:16 GMT -8
I wonder at what point the Expo Line's total passenger count will surpass the PE's Air Line passenger count - or probably at what point the passenger count surpassed... The following numbers are for the Venice Short Line, one of the busiest lines of that time. More at www.erha.org/pewvs.htmTHE SPECTACULAR V.S.L.: Carrying people to the seashore wa the VSL's most spectacular function. Here, from a notebook kept and leaned by Mr. Harry O. Marler, former Passenger Traffic Manager of PE, are some impressive figures. Sunday Travel: Sundays were usually good days for the VSL; only an "unusual" day prevented large crowds from going to the beach. Here are the best Sundays down the years: 1914: June 28: 15,172 Passengers 1915: July 4: 16,450 Passengers 1916: May 7: 14,089 Passengers 1917: June 17: 18,351 Passengers 1918: June 9: 15,632 Passengers 1919: April 20: 14,919 Passengers 1920: July 4: 20,504 Passengers 1921: August: 21: 16,274 Passengers July 4th Travel: Invariably the biggest day of the year was July 4th; here are some startling totals: 1914: 29,508 1915: 16,766 1916: 26,800 1917: 27,049 1918: 26,505 1919: 25,005 1920: 27,824 1923: 30,182 The ridership on the Air Line was a lot lower -- probably a few thousands during its peak days, as it was single-track. Expo Line is a busier line than even the Venice Short Line. Of course, the population now is a lot more; so, ridership/population was probably higher back then. When the line was first built as a steam line in 1875, it was the only means of transportation; so, everybody who wanted to go to Santa Monica had to take it or walk through the fields otherwise.
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Post by transitfan on May 20, 2014 7:14:10 GMT -8
Also, the Air Line had only one trip in each direction (to L. A. in the morning, to Santa Monica in the evening. It was mostly a freight line (and was used as such by Southern Pacific for many years after the last Red Car ran), and the one round trip was required in order for PE to keep the route for freight. This was known as a "franchise run". Similar to today's express buses that run to downtown in the AM and from downtown in the PM (although the bus routes usually have more than one trip, then again, you can't add extra cars to a bus like you can with a rail car)
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Post by Gokhan on May 20, 2014 10:18:42 GMT -8
Also, the Air Line had only one trip in each direction (to L. A. in the morning, to Santa Monica in the evening. It was mostly a freight line (and was used as such by Southern Pacific for many years after the last Red Car ran), and the one round trip was required in order for PE to keep the route for freight. This was known as a "franchise run". Similar to today's express buses that run to downtown in the AM and from downtown in the PM (although the bus routes usually have more than one trip, then again, you can't add extra cars to a bus like you can with a rail car) It was a steam line originally and carried a lot of passengers. It became less popular later. When it reopened on May 25, 1909, as the "Air Line", it claimed 32 minutes from Hill and 4th to Ocean and Broadway. Compare this to Expo Line's 46 minutes from 7th and Flower to Colorado and 4th. It did have more frequent service prior to 1915 but it had to fight hard afterwards to stay alive -- there were many attempts to abandon it throughout its history until it finally got abandoned on September 29, 1953. Probably being single-track was the reason for its failure. It would be expensive to convert the three bridges it crosses to double-track. Nevertheless, it was an iconic line that captured the hearts of streetcar fans throughout the history. AIR LINE FLYER SERVICE PUT ON TO SANTA MONICATrains Will Run to Los Angeles Over Old Southern Pacific Tracks
SANTA MONICA, May 25, 1909.—The following letter has been received by President Goetz of the Santa Monica board of trade: "H. X. Goetz, Santa Monica, Cal.: "Dear Sir—Please be advised that Air Line flyer for the present will leave Ocean and Montana avenues, Santa Monica, at 8:05 a. 18., running to Los Angeles direct over the Air Line, making only the stop at Palms station outside the city limits of Santa Monica. The flyer will return in the afternoon, leaving Hill street station at 5:25 p. m. "After we have tried this a short time we can tell better as to whether the leaving time will be satisfactory. These hours seem to be the most popular ones from the different requests we have received. If we find that these cars are well enough patronized we will endeavor to Increase the service during the day. Yours truly, "R. P. SHERMAN." The service in question, which was inaugurated today, puts this city In communication with Los Angeles by a fourth route, the Los Angeles-Pacific over the old Southern Pacific tracks. The time required by the cars over this line is thirty-two minutes from. North Beach station to Hill street, Los Angeles. Many business men availed themselves of the new train this morning, and it is thought that the servico will be increased by more trains before many days. LOS ANGELES HERALD: WEDNESDAY MORNING, MAY 26, 1909. (provided by Jonathan Weiss) A lot more at the Expo history thread
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Post by davebowman on May 20, 2014 14:50:44 GMT -8
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Post by darrell on May 20, 2014 14:58:52 GMT -8
I was photographing at the 23rd Street station yesterday afternoon for images with the new TOD (student apartments) that appears nearly finished. There appeared to be a lot of Trade Tech students using the trains. The second photo is striking in how the nearer train is such a dull gray box compared with the Siemens train behind it.
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Post by masonite on May 20, 2014 14:59:26 GMT -8
Yikes. 67 minutes instead of the advertised 40. Of course, they should be able to whittle that down some with familiarity of the operators. Even so. Lets hope Expo can do its full run in a consistent 46 minutes or less. I for one am a little skeptical.
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Post by Gokhan on May 20, 2014 16:03:32 GMT -8
I was photographing at the 23rd Street station yesterday afternoon for images with the new TOD (student apartments) that appears nearly finished. There appeared to be a lot of Trade Tech students using the trains. The second photo is striking in how the nearer train is such a dull gray box compared with the Siemens train behind it. Note that that's an unfinished livery job. Most reflective decals are missing. Stripes will also be removed once the decals are added. Compare it to the finished job: The large windows -- that don't really add to the viewing experience but just cause more annoying sun in your eye coming from the top -- are the only cosmetic advantage of Siemens's. Otherwise, they are poorly built, poorly handling trains that break down often. I really don't like them. If you're on a Nippon Sharyo, it's more likely to make its schedule, as it handles better in speed zones. Siemens's have proven to be junk.
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Post by culvercitylocke on May 21, 2014 11:20:31 GMT -8
yeah there's not really much point building trains unless they are fast.
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Post by Gokhan on May 21, 2014 14:07:27 GMT -8
Honestly no one cares about how the trains look. That's something only us the transit advocates care about when we "theorize" about public transit in our armchairs. In real life, people, including commuters and tourists, only care about how fast it can take them from point A to B and if it can do it comfortably; so, how the train looks is mostly a moot issue. However, for some people, a good view from inside the train is important; so, it helps to design the surroundings well and eliminate the sound walls as much as possible. As even the Neighbors for Smart Rails say, Expo Authority ended up building a "sewer" from Overland Ave to Westwood Blvd (sewer thanks to sound-wall enclosure). Expo sewer looking east from Military Ave:
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Post by bzcat on May 21, 2014 16:44:56 GMT -8
If open sewers all look this good, we should have them all over town
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Post by Alexis Kasperavičius on May 26, 2014 1:46:08 GMT -8
Collision Delays Expo Line into Culver CityMay 25, 2014 3:46 pm by: Parimal Rohit Category: News, Traffic + Transportation Leave a comment A vehicle collided with a Metro Expo Line train near Exposition Park today, but only minor injuries were reported. The crash happened around 2:20 p.m. at Vermont Avenue and Exposition Boulevard, said Lt. Richard Hoffman of the Los Angeles County sheriff’s Transit Services Bureau. Two people suffered non-life-threatening injuries and were taken to a hospital for treatment, said Erik Scott of the Los Angeles Fire Dept. He described the crash as minor. The Expo Line was in single-track operation between the 23rd Street and Western Avenue stations, Hoffman said. Metro reported 20-minute delays as trains between Culver City and Los Angeles alternated directions on the remaining track. No timeline was given on how long the delays would continue.
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Post by bobdavis on May 26, 2014 17:40:18 GMT -8
I think Gokhan is correct about how the typical transit passenger doesn't care what the bus or train looks like. Is it running on schedule? Will it get me where I'm going without breaking down? Is it relatively clean? Is it free of crazy, drunk, smelly or otherwise obnoxious passengers? Once these questions are answered positively, it could be a factory fresh LRV or a wooden interurban. One of the few times I've heard someone comment about the vehicle was when the old RTD was gathering second-hand buses from all over (late 70s-early 80s), I was on a hand-me-down from Atlanta GA, that still had traces of peach-colored paint showing, and the lady in the next seat (who was from Georgia) said, "This looks just like the bus that used to go by the Federal prison". In the 1960s my daughters and I would ride RTD service in the San Gabriel Valley. We usually had a boxy Flxible 6000, 4000 or 4200 series coach, but from time to time we'd get an "old look" unit from the 1950s, which would prompt one or the other of the girls to say, "Look Daddy! A round bus!"
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Post by pithecanthropus on May 26, 2014 20:13:42 GMT -8
When it reopened on May 25, 1909, as the "Air Line", it claimed 32 minutes from Hill and 4th to Ocean and Broadway. Compare this to Expo Line's 46 minutes from 7th and Flower to Colorado and 4th. To be fair, though, remember in 1909 the route was almost entirely open country very few hindrances such as traffic signals. Certainly automobiles were just becoming popular, but I assume that railroaders weren't expected to make way for them, yet.
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Post by pithecanthropus on May 26, 2014 20:21:35 GMT -8
As even the Neighbors for Smart Rails say, Expo Authority ended up building a "sewer" from Overland Ave to Westwood Blvd (sewer thanks to sound-wall enclosure). Expo sewer looking east from Military Ave: But, wasn't much of this portion--around the S-curve--trenched anyway? Arising from this, I've always wondered why the S-curve in Cheviot Hills is there at all. Wasn't the whole point of an air line that there wouldn't have to be any curves?
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Post by joemagruder on May 27, 2014 5:13:07 GMT -8
Was the S curve added when the freeway was built?
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Post by Gokhan on May 27, 2014 13:03:42 GMT -8
As even the Neighbors for Smart Rails say, Expo Authority ended up building a "sewer" from Overland Ave to Westwood Blvd (sewer thanks to sound-wall enclosure). Expo sewer looking east from Military Ave: But, wasn't much of this portion--around the S-curve--trenched anyway? Arising from this, I've always wondered why the S-curve in Cheviot Hills is there at all. Wasn't the whole point of an air line that there wouldn't have to be any curves? Trenched? Tracks are at grade level here -- otherwise they wouldn't be able to cross the at-grade crossings at Westwood Blvd and Military Ave. S curve is because the tracks need to separate apart for the center platform of the Expo/Westwood Station. It appears more exaggerated than it is in the zoom picture, where the depth dimension is scaled. Note that the eastbound track is entirely straight but the westbound track curves to go around the platform.
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Post by Gokhan on May 27, 2014 13:40:03 GMT -8
Arising from this, I've always wondered why the S-curve in Cheviot Hills is there at all. Wasn't the whole point of an air line that there wouldn't have to be any curves? Was the S curve added when the freeway was built? Ah, I see, you're talking about the Northvale Road (formerly Exposition Boulevard) Trench east of Overland Ave, not this section. The reason is that the Palms / Cheviot Hills section is very hilly, and the line would have to climb steep hills if it had to go straight in this section without the S curve. In fact, the reason for the trench is to level the line through the hills. Without the trench, it would have to follow the up/down grades on the adjacent Northvale Road. The S curve and trench were there ever since they built the line in 1875. They deepened the trench a little when they built the freeway in 1963 because they added the Palms Park Pedestrian Bridge as part of the freeway project. Without deepening the trench a little, there would be two little clearance between the newly built pedestrian bridge and double-stacked rail cars. Before they built the pedestrian bridge, kids living in Cheviot Hills would have to climb down and up the trench in order to go to school.
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Post by Gokhan on May 27, 2014 14:10:47 GMT -8
Without the S curve in The Palms, they would have to do a 40-ft-deep trench around Overland Ave as they did for the freeway, which wouldn't be possible given the 100-ft-wide railroad right-of-way. On the other hand, the S curve follows a natural valley that separates original The Palms (south of the tracks) and Cheviot Hills (north of the tracks): Source: Navigate LA
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Post by davebowman on May 30, 2014 10:47:33 GMT -8
To put Expo Line service and how it affects bus transit in context, here's another article on the imminent opening of the Green Line light rail extension between downtown Minneapolis and downtown St. Paul. The issues with the speed of the line and coordination with related bus routes sound familiar. www.startribune.com/local/minneapolis/261268881.html
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Post by culvercitylocke on May 30, 2014 13:47:11 GMT -8
from my recollection when I was at USC, there were no buses from USC to Santa Monica. I had to take a bus to the WLA transit center under the 10 freeway and then wait an eternity on the westbound 10 onramp busstop for the 435 (number may not be right), to take me to 4th and Colorado. So there's not really any direct service bus service that will be impacted, because the nearby East West buslines all terminated at WLA Transit center under the 10 freeway, and you then had to switch to different buses to get somewhere else. If you were on Pico or Venice or Olympic or Wilshire, you could get all the way to Santa Monica, but I rarely took them since their Vermont stops were so far away from USC. Though when I missed the 10 freeway bus in the evening, I did quite a lot of the two-three hour trips of riding on the Wilshire rapid from Santa Monica to the Vermont Rapid back to USC.
I'm comparing USC to Santa Monica because USC is the eastern terminus of the east/west portion of the line, USC to downtown is north south and would have an impact on north south ridership.
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Post by bzcat on Jun 2, 2014 9:59:22 GMT -8
When I went to USC, there wasn't even any Rapid buses... there was no practical way to reach USC from the Westside.
Things improved a bit in my Junior year when USC started the Union Station shuttle bus and so it was possible in theory to take Big Blue Bus #10 and connect to the USC shuttle. But it only ran 4 times a day so you couldn't rely on it. If you missed the USC shuttle, it was another 1 hour of bus rides from Union Station to campus... you had to take a Metro bus then transfer to a DASH bus, and god forbid you didn't miss the DASH, which ran once every 30 minutes during rush hour.
In another word, things are MUCH better today. You can take a train that drops you off right at the front door of USC. There is also all kinds of frequent buses and rail that connect USC with Union Station and Metro Center... It's like a dream come true.
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Post by davebowman on Jun 2, 2014 11:16:45 GMT -8
To say I am looking forward to the day I can take the Expo Line from home in Santa Monica to work at USC would be an understatement. The money I will save in parking (about $100/month), gas, and wear and tear on my car will be significant, not to mention USC's metro subsidy for staff. In the meantime, what would be the best way to get to USC from SM via mass transit (I live near St. John's hospital)? The BBB #10 to 7th St/Metro Center and then catch the Expo Line? Or would it make sense to try and make a connection further south of downtown? The BBB #5 local to the Culver City Expo station would take longer, correct?
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