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Post by metrocenter on Jan 10, 2017 12:41:59 GMT -8
Metro is currently making changes to how it polices its trains. The latest proposal is to dump LASD, and contract LA and Long Beach police departments. I have a good feeling this will help. The Sheriff's Department is next to useless.
As a Blue Line rider, I see this stuff almost everyday. From the more benign (people playing loud music or eating full meals on train) to the more disturbing (marijuana smokers on train, homeless sprawled across several seats, aggressive hoodlums, etc.). I keep Metro Security on speed dial (888.950.7233), and I regularly call in problems. Metro Security won't come unless you report a problem.
Would be nice if they had a decent app or some way to text Metro Security, so you don't have to speak and thus draw attention to yourself.
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Post by RMoses on Jan 10, 2017 14:00:47 GMT -8
Without full fare control measures similar incidents will continue to occur. I know of several people who refuse to ride Expo in the evening as there are way too many problem riders.
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Post by masonite on Jan 10, 2017 15:53:51 GMT -8
Without full fare control measures similar incidents will continue to occur. I know of several people who refuse to ride Expo in the evening as there are way too many problem riders. There needs to be a lot of undercover operations as well. I've seen a lot of times people act like angels while the sheriff is on board and then as soon as they exit go back to whatever they were doing. If people have no fear of being caught for harassing someone, selling whatever, or acting inappropriately as long as they don't see a uniformed officer in their car then crime and poor behavior including sexual harassment will continue to flourish.
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Post by RMoses on Jan 10, 2017 20:28:21 GMT -8
I have ridden the Airtrain (PANYNJ) to/from JFK around 150-175 times. It is 100% automated, no operator on board.
As designed it has Zero stops from JFK proper to Jamaica LIRR and a $5 fare each way with 100% fare control. I have encountered Zero issues on the Airtrain all times, day and night.
This is not an apples to apples comparison; however without 100% fare control you allow individuals to take advantage of a system and infringe on paying customers.
As least on a bus you actual have a driver in the "cabin" to intervene and document.
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Post by cygnip2p on Jan 10, 2017 20:33:06 GMT -8
Airtrain also only serves people with the money and ability to go fly on an airplane in the first place.
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Post by RMoses on Jan 10, 2017 21:21:46 GMT -8
Airtrain also only serves people with the money and ability to go fly on an airplane in the first place. 80% yes, but many JFK workers take it too and have monthly passes.
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Post by metrocenter on Jan 11, 2017 13:26:47 GMT -8
I will add: it is not at all clear to me whether Metro Security actually responds to reported incidents.
Yesterday on the way home, our train had someone blasting Banda music, VERY loud. I got off at Washington station and moved to the next car, and then I reported the issue to Metro Security. I described the person, I told them the line, car number, the train direction and its current location. The operator said he was sending someone out.
At each stop, I looked out the door to see if security was entering the train. After ten stations, I stopped checking. They clearly did nothing. Nobody was sent. When I passed Firestone station, I saw security standing on the platform. They did not board the train - they probably were not even notified.
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Post by TransportationZ on Jan 12, 2017 7:58:57 GMT -8
I will add: it is not at all clear to me whether Metro Security actually responds to reported incidents. Yesterday on the way home, our train had someone blasting Banda music, VERY loud. I got off at Washington station and moved to the next car, and then I reported the issue to Metro Security. I described the person, I told them the line, car number, the train direction and its current location. The operator said he was sending someone out. At each stop, I looked out the door to see if security was entering the train. After ten stations, I stopped checking. They clearly did nothing. Nobody was sent. When I passed Firestone station, I saw security standing on the platform. They did not board the train - they probably were not even notified. Sorry, but this isn't the nice and hunky dory Gold or Expo Line. Blasting music(especially from phones) is a regular occurrence on the Ghetto Blue; It's like trying to report the people selling candy and $1 single cigarettes: pointless. It's pretty much normal, I just use headphones. Regular riders and operators simply don't care at this point.
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Post by metrocenter on Jan 12, 2017 10:12:10 GMT -8
Sorry, but this isn't the nice and hunky dory Gold or Expo Line. Blasting music(especially from phones) is a regular occurrence on the Ghetto Blue; It's like trying to report the people selling candy and $1 single cigarettes: pointless. It's pretty much normal, I just use headphones. Regular riders and operators simply don't care at this point. This may be a "regular occurrence on the Ghetto Blue", but I disagree that it's "normal" and that "regular riders...simply don't care". I was wearing headphones, and I could still hear the music very loudly. Several other riders were visibly angry about the music. But nobody was going to get up and personally confront the thug.
That's what security is supposed to do. Enforce the rules. The rules are there for everyone, so we can get to/from work or school in peace.
NOT enforcing the rules is what leads to a train line becoming "ghetto". It will happen to Expo too if Metro Security doesn't step up their game.
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Post by TransportationZ on Jan 12, 2017 12:41:03 GMT -8
Sorry, but this isn't the nice and hunky dory Gold or Expo Line. Blasting music(especially from phones) is a regular occurrence on the Ghetto Blue; It's like trying to report the people selling candy and $1 single cigarettes: pointless. It's pretty much normal, I just use headphones. Regular riders and operators simply don't care at this point. This may be a "regular occurrence on the Ghetto Blue", but I disagree that it's "normal" and that "regular riders...simply don't care". I was wearing headphones, and I could still hear the music very loudly. Several other riders were visibly angry about the music. But nobody was going to get up and personally confront the thug.
That's what security is supposed to do. Enforce the rules. The rules are there for everyone, so we can get to/from work or school in peace.
NOT enforcing the rules is what leads to a train line becoming "ghetto". It will happen to Expo too if Metro Security doesn't step up their game. I've been riding the blue line my entire 23 year life(literally, I was riding this line to elementary school with my mother) and there's always been people doing annoying things like blasting music, selling stuff, and begging for money. Sure it's annoying and it sucks, but anyone making a big fuss over it after all these years must obviously be new or doesn't regularly ride the Ghetto Blue. This line goes straight through the heart of the Ghetto. I also don't think it's because Metro doesn't want to enforce it, its just that its so common that you'd probably need an officer in every car 24/7 to actually stop it. Let's face it: The average demographic on the Gold Line isn't going to be regularly trying to blast lil' Wayne from their phone on the train.
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Post by metrocenter on Jan 13, 2017 6:31:23 GMT -8
I've been riding the blue line my entire 23 year life(literally, I was riding this line to elementary school with my mother) and there's always been people doing annoying things like blasting music, selling stuff, and begging for money. Sure it's annoying and it sucks, but anyone making a big fuss over it after all these years must obviously be new or doesn't regularly ride the Ghetto Blue. This line goes straight through the heart of the Ghetto. I also don't think it's because Metro doesn't want to enforce it, its just that its so common that you'd probably need an officer in every car 24/7 to actually stop it. Let's face it: The average demographic on the Gold Line isn't going to be regularly trying to blast lil' Wayne from their phone on the train.
Well I've been riding the Blue Line since it opened in 1990, when it still only went to Pico station (7th/Metro not yet built). I have been taking it to work almost every day for a good long time. No it hasn't always been this way, and no it doesn't have to be this way.
In the early days, people would get tickets for just *eating* or even drinking water on the train. I myself got a $200 ticket for chewing gum. Growing up in Huntington Park, I know that it doesn't matter where your from, a $200 ticket will change your behavior really quickly.
They don't need an officer on every train. But right now, there are *no* officers on *any* train. All I'm saying is, Metro Security needs to start doing its job better.
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Post by masonite on Jan 13, 2017 10:07:15 GMT -8
I've been riding the blue line my entire 23 year life(literally, I was riding this line to elementary school with my mother) and there's always been people doing annoying things like blasting music, selling stuff, and begging for money. Sure it's annoying and it sucks, but anyone making a big fuss over it after all these years must obviously be new or doesn't regularly ride the Ghetto Blue. This line goes straight through the heart of the Ghetto. I also don't think it's because Metro doesn't want to enforce it, its just that its so common that you'd probably need an officer in every car 24/7 to actually stop it. Let's face it: The average demographic on the Gold Line isn't going to be regularly trying to blast lil' Wayne from their phone on the train.
Well I've been riding the Blue Line since it opened in 1990, when it still only went to Pico station (7th/Metro not yet built). I have been taking it to work almost every day for a good long time. No it hasn't always been this way, and no it doesn't have to be this way.
In the early days, people would get tickets for just *eating* or even drinking water on the train. I myself got a $200 ticket for chewing gum. Growing up in Huntington Park, I know that it doesn't matter where your from, a $200 ticket will change your behavior really quickly.
They don't need an officer on every train. But right now, there are *no* officers on *any* train. All I'm saying is, Metro Security needs to start doing its job better. I agree. Just because a train is going through a poor, high crime area is no reason to let it become a free for all. People aren't riding the system in the numbers they used to and they say lack of security is the biggest reason. A lot of people have given up on riding Expo at night and to me the crowd is more unruly than when I used to ride to Koreatown in the 90s during LA's high crime period. The Blue and especially the Green Line are down significantly in ridership and this is a major factor.
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expo
Junior Member
Posts: 71
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Post by expo on Jan 16, 2017 15:33:24 GMT -8
I've noticed that ever since 6-minute headways were introduced, signal timing has been atrocious in Downtown Santa Monica. Trains almost always hit 2 different lights between Lincoln and the terminus, and I even see trains stopped at Lincoln (both inbound and outbound), which used to have full preemption. Does anyone know if the City of Santa Monica plans on addressing this issue? I know there was a memorandum of understanding that stated that Santa Monica would provide preemption to the degree necessary to maintain 5 minute headways, but that clearly has not happened yet.
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expo
Junior Member
Posts: 71
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Post by expo on Jan 23, 2017 14:18:45 GMT -8
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Post by gatewaygent on Jan 24, 2017 15:44:18 GMT -8
I wonder how all this rain has effected the imperfection/dip on the wall that makes up the ramp?
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Post by metrocenter on Feb 23, 2017 16:26:18 GMT -8
Sorry, but this isn't the nice and hunky dory Gold or Expo Line. Blasting music(especially from phones) is a regular occurrence on the Ghetto Blue; It's like trying to report the people selling candy and $1 single cigarettes: pointless. It's pretty much normal, I just use headphones. Regular riders and operators simply don't care at this point. This may be a "regular occurrence on the Ghetto Blue", but I disagree that it's "normal" and that "regular riders...simply don't care". I was wearing headphones, and I could still hear the music very loudly. Several other riders were visibly angry about the music. But nobody was going to get up and personally confront the thug.
That's what security is supposed to do. Enforce the rules. The rules are there for everyone, so we can get to/from work or school in peace.
NOT enforcing the rules is what leads to a train line becoming "ghetto". It will happen to Expo too if Metro Security doesn't step up their game. As a final note, Metro may have finally got the message about what a pain-in-the-a$$ riding the Blue Line can be for the majority of us riders. Here's their plan. (I will also post this in the Blue Line thread.)
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Post by exporider on Mar 6, 2017 12:08:11 GMT -8
There have been big changes for park-and-riders on Expo, specifically in and around Culver City. The Culver City parking lot was closed a couple weeks ago, and Metro began charging for parking at La Cienega last week. After the Culver City parking lot was closed, the demand at La Cienega peaked and it became hard to find a parking space there. One day I arrived after 9 AM and the lot was completely full, so I drove to Crenshaw to find a space for the first time. With the parking charges in effect there seems to be less demand at La Cienega, but still at least three levels full. Has anybody else noted changes in parking at Expo stations? I expect that the demand at Crenshaw should be increasing, and that there might even be more demand at the Sepulveda station.
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Post by culvercitylocke on Mar 6, 2017 14:40:37 GMT -8
There are signs up at the Culver City traders joes parking structure that they are offering $3 / day parking to all tap card holders so the overflow is supposed to go there.
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Post by exporider on Mar 6, 2017 15:12:26 GMT -8
There are signs up at the Culver City traders joes parking structure that they are offering $3 / day parking to all tap card holders so the overflow is supposed to go there. Thanks CCL. I just checked the Metro web site and see that they are advertising that option. That looks like a similar walk distance (~500 feet) as from the Crenshaw Station to the church parking lot.
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expo
Junior Member
Posts: 71
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Post by expo on Mar 6, 2017 16:42:57 GMT -8
I took Expo from Sepulveda to Pico last Friday and timed the run. It was exactly on time, despite the fact that we were stopped at lights for 3 minutes between western and Vermont and had approximately 3 minutes worth of delay due to tunnel congestion. That tells me that if grade separation is implemented through Downtown and full preemption is implemented from Western to Vermont, end to end travel time could be cut down to or below 40 minutes (6 by eliminating stops/relieving congession another minute or so from increased speeds). That would be competitive with driving at almost any time of day.
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Post by culvercitylocke on Mar 6, 2017 17:14:45 GMT -8
If the subway to the sea were built with three more stations in Santa Monica it'd be what 25 to 20 minutes from 3rd st to seventh metro?
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Post by masonite on Mar 6, 2017 17:28:01 GMT -8
If the subway to the sea were built with three more stations in Santa Monica it'd be what 25 to 20 minutes from 3rd st to seventh metro? Probably about 30 min. as it is supposed to be a little over 20 from Westwood.
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Post by davebowman on Mar 9, 2017 11:06:48 GMT -8
As much as we all like to complain about the Expo Line, I was reminded this morning of the positive impact the train has had on the communities it serves. On my EB train this morning I overheard a couple women who I think are teachers talk about how much easier it is to go to plays at the Music Center on the train versus the bus, other cultural events they're looking forward to attending in the future, and how much cheaper it is to use the train for student field trips versus paying for chartered school buses. It seems like having access to the Expo Line has improved their quality of life, and as someone who didn't have a car when I first moved to LA in the late 1970s and had to rely on slow and inconvenient bus service I can really relate to that. Of course, as soon as one of the women remarked that the train was rolling along quite nicely it came to a stop at Normandie, and then at Vermont, and . . .
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Post by Gokhan on Mar 9, 2017 17:16:41 GMT -8
I don't think public transit is meant to be fast in general. I also don't think that it can be made fast regardless of whether it's subway or light-rail. The primary reason is that every stop adds about a minute, no matter how fast the train runs in between the stops. As a result, it's hard for a train with stops at every mile to beat a car. On top of that, you need to consider the amount of time you spend waiting for the train, which could be substantial, especially if you transfer to other trains. Moreover, you need to walk at the beginning and end of the line, which could also be substantial.
The biggest problem with the Expo Line right now seems to be the irregular schedule. Sometimes there are are several trains with three-minute gaps and sometimes there is no train for 20 or more minutes. It adds a lot to the travel time when you are waiting for 20 minutes. Also, since they are running two-car trains, trains get very crowded with this irregular-service problem.
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Post by fissure on Mar 9, 2017 21:10:55 GMT -8
Metro needs to do a better job slowing down trains that get large gaps forming behind them. The success metric when you have nominal headways under 10 minutes should be headway standard deviation instead of how well they stick to the published schedule.
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Post by exporider on Mar 10, 2017 10:42:36 GMT -8
You're quite right, fissure, but deviating from schedules exacerbates operational problems heading into downtown, coordinating with the Blue Line, and then rearranging trains at the terminal station.
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Post by JerardWright on Mar 11, 2017 8:52:49 GMT -8
I took Expo from Sepulveda to Pico last Friday and timed the run. It was exactly on time, despite the fact that we were stopped at lights for 3 minutes between western and Vermont and had approximately 3 minutes worth of delay due to tunnel congestion. That tells me that if grade separation is implemented through Downtown and full preemption is implemented from Western to Vermont, end to end travel time could be cut down to or below 40 minutes (6 by eliminating stops/relieving congession another minute or so from increased speeds). That would be competitive with driving at almost any time of day. A lot of the congestion relief will occur when the Regional Connector opens as the trains will run through and not get stopped at 7th Street as it currently is one of the biggest bottlenecks of the rail system, Union Station for the Red/Purple is the other one. Signal preemption will add more relief and less delay to riders. And going back to an operational interlining of trains will aid in reliablity because trains moved faster in an out of 7th Street when this is operated that way.
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expo
Junior Member
Posts: 71
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Post by expo on Mar 13, 2017 12:17:32 GMT -8
Right. Let's hope Metro recommends full grade separation on the shared expo/blue area. I haven't heard anything about considering preemption from Western to Vermont, but hopefully that gets put on the table as well.
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Post by masonite on Mar 19, 2017 11:46:19 GMT -8
I don't think public transit is meant to be fast in general. I also don't think that it can be made fast regardless of whether it's subway or light-rail. The primary reason is that every stop adds about a minute, no matter how fast the train runs in between the stops. As a result, it's hard for a train with stops at every mile to beat a car. On top of that, you need to consider the amount of time you spend waiting for the train, which could be substantial, especially if you transfer to other trains. Moreover, you need to walk at the beginning and end of the line, which could also be substantial. The biggest problem with the Expo Line right now seems to be the irregular schedule. Sometimes there are are several trains with three-minute gaps and sometimes there is no train for 20 or more minutes. It adds a lot to the travel time when you are waiting for 20 minutes. Also, since they are running two-car trains, trains get very crowded with this irregular-service problem. I agree public transit can't compete with a free flowing freeway where you have consistent 65 mph speeds. However, there are opportunities in Los Angeles where public transit can be faster than a car, because traffic is so bad here. That is what will attract large amounts of people. Most people don't want to spend twice as much time riding transit. It is a losing proposition. We are already seeing this ridership is way down in LA., especially on slow modes like the busses. People have other options now.
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Post by davebowman on Apr 26, 2017 8:43:28 GMT -8
For some reason my EB ride yesterday morning on an old Nippon Sharyo train (the plaque on the door to the operator's compartment said 1989) was really slow. The train crawled into Bergamot Station and it took its own sweet time the rest of the way until I got off at Expo Park/USC, and the following EB train arrived while I was still waiting to cross the street. Then service this morning was delayed due to a power issue at Pico. Not a good two days for the Expo Line, and after riding the train for almost a year I'll start to think about getting back in my car again if this continues. I like the convenience and economy of taking the train, but given that the Expo Line is slower than it should be in the best of times, problems like this are really irritating.
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