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Post by Elson on Jul 23, 2012 23:38:19 GMT -8
Here's something to think about regarding the line's speed/travel time.
I recently cleaned out my desk drawer, and found the first Blue Line schedule from July 1990. Back then, the line only ran from Pico to Anaheim St. -- some 19 miles. There was a "station to station travel times" chart in the schedules. Back then, the Pico-to-Anaheim St. line took 55 minutes to travel.
The Expo Line today is 8.7 miles long from 7/MC to Culver City. Travel time is 29 minutes, traveling on a mix of signalled street running and an exclusive ROW.
The Blue Line from Pico to Imperial/Wilmington (now known as Willowbrook) is 8.8 miles' distance - an identical distance. The travel time in July 1990 was 30 minutes, traveling on a mix of signalled street running an an exclusive ROW.
Today that same 8.8 miles takes 22 minutes to traverse (and the Pico-Anaheim St run takes 46 minutes now).
Something to consider!!!!
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Post by transitfan on Jul 24, 2012 5:16:32 GMT -8
I remember that schedule! (might still have a copy somewhere). Hours were short as well, last northbound train left Anaheim at 6-something, and the last southbound left Pico ~ 705 PM. I think they extended the time somewhat when the Long Beach loop opened at the beginning of September, and I know it had been extended when Metro Center opened in February 1991. I think the very last train went out of service at Wardlow at 1030 PM, one time I drove down there to see it. By 1992, when they went to 6-minute headways during the peak, I think it was running later still. I recall after Metro Center opened, they allocated an hour to get from Metro to Transit Mall, which was too long. Trains laid over for 15 minutes at Transit Mall. With 10 minute headways, one train would arrive 5 minutes before the previous train was to leave (no problem with 2 tracks.) Meanwhile, the next train after that had a scheduled 5 minute hold at 1st St station until a track opened up at Transit Mall. Finally, at the June 1992 shakeup, RTD wised up and cut down the running time to 55 minutes.
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Post by Gokhan on Jul 24, 2012 8:11:32 GMT -8
We had calculated the best-case travel times for the Expo, and they were 21 minutes to Culver City and 36 minutes to Santa Monica.
Chances are that the line will never be that fast. But here is what can be done:
(1) Get as much signal priority and/or preexemption as possible at the at-grade crossings where there are no crossing gates, especially on Flower St and at small streets on Exposition like Trousdale, Watts, Menlo, Raymond, Halldale, and Denker.
(2) Improve the speed limit (make it 25 MPH for example) and/or where it applies (instead of the entire area, only at the crossing) at Farmdale.
(3) Fix the ATP so that the trains don't needlessly stall. For example, westbound trains are frequently stalling at La Cienega for a minute or more because of ATP problems.
(4) Fix the mile-long Colorado Ave median-running section in Santa Monica as much as possible. It looks like it will be a nightmare, making that final mile perhaps 6-minutes-long. Everything else on Phase 2 should be blazing fast though, as elsewhere in Phase 2 there are no at-grade crossings without crossing gates.
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Post by bluelineshawn on Jul 24, 2012 16:24:53 GMT -8
I'm on a train that left 7th/metro at 5 pm and I can't believe how many people are riding! In the first car nearly every seat is taken with about 10 standees. The other cars look similar. We passes a downtown train at Jefferson that was even more crowded!
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Post by bluelineshawn on Jul 24, 2012 16:39:21 GMT -8
Notice that they have car cleaners picking up trash in the trains at culver city. Good idea, but to bad expo had to open for it to happen. Never saw that on the blue line. The train that I'm on was a blue line train and it's very clean.
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Post by calwatch on Jul 24, 2012 18:38:23 GMT -8
It's interesting to note that with extended night service, they added another deadhead train eastbound from Culver City. The deadhead trains on Friday/Saturday nights leave Culver City at 2:06, 2:26, and 2:46 headed to USC and Metro Center at 2:22. Metro should free these deadhead trains and terminate them at appropriate locations - eastbound at Vermont/Expo and westbound at Jefferson, for which there are still connections to owl bus service (the 204 and 38 respectively).
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Post by bzcat on Jul 30, 2012 11:03:43 GMT -8
I took the Expo line on Sunday from Culver City to USC in the morning which was uneventful. The Culver Station parking lot was about 25% occupied at 10AM, which I thought was pretty good on a Sunday. My train left with about 15 people on board but pickup quite a few people at La Cienega, La Brea, and Farmdale with people wearing their Sunday best for Church. And sure enough, many of them got off the train at Crenshaw.
On my way back in the afternoon, I just missed my train while waiting for the crossing sign. I'm used to looking up at the message screen for the next train while I'm in Downtown so I was a bit surprised to see there is no "next train" arrival info on the Expo line. Does anyone know why arrival time is not displayed at Expo stations?
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Post by bluelineshawn on Jul 30, 2012 17:12:31 GMT -8
I took the Expo line on Sunday from Culver City to USC in the morning which was uneventful. The Culver Station parking lot was about 25% occupied at 10AM, which I thought was pretty good on a Sunday. My train left with about 15 people on board but pickup quite a few people at La Cienega, La Brea, and Farmdale with people wearing their Sunday best for Church. And sure enough, many of them got off the train at Crenshaw. On my way back in the afternoon, I just missed my train while waiting for the crossing sign. I'm used to looking up at the message screen for the next train while I'm in Downtown so I was a bit surprised to see there is no "next train" arrival info on the Expo line. Does anyone know why arrival time is not displayed at Expo stations? The gold line was the only light rail line that got the flat screen displays that showed the next train in accordance with the published schedule. Metro decided to replace the gold line information screens (already the newest in the system) twice before worrying about any of the other light rail lines. But they are being added now and Metro will soon spend tens (hundreds??) of thousands of dollars installing information screens that have the same information that could be provided with sheets of paper posted on the platforms. In addition the information is already something that most of us already have access to on our phones. It's a complete waste of money absent a real-time system that let's passengers know when the next train is really coming. And even that is a waste of money imo. It's nice to know, but it's not like anyone can do anything with the additional information unless they decide to take a bus instead. I guess that it has psychological benefit, but the value of that is not equal to the cost.
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Post by jamesinclair on Jul 30, 2012 17:43:52 GMT -8
There is a huge value to real time info. You absolutely can do other things if you know the wait time, like grab good/drink etc or tell the person picking you up to delay their trip, or hop on a bike or take a bus....
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Post by macross287 on Jul 30, 2012 18:16:44 GMT -8
IMO real time not a waste of resources. Aside from what james said real time info can be used to give arrival times when things happen that take trains off schedule like late night maintenance, or service disruptions like what happened to the expo line a few weeks ago or what somewhat regularly happens on the blue line.
Though I do believe the current Screens should be capable of displaying real time arrival information once nextrip is applied to Metro Rail. The Orange Line which is on nextrip displays real time arrival info on its screens, and they look exactly like the screens Expo uses.
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Post by bluelineshawn on Jul 30, 2012 19:25:47 GMT -8
There is a huge value to real time info. You absolutely can do other things if you know the wait time, like grab good/drink etc or tell the person picking you up to delay their trip, or hop on a bike or take a bus.... A bike? People are going to leave the station, go home, and ride a bike instead?!? I already said bus.
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Post by bluelineshawn on Jul 30, 2012 19:28:44 GMT -8
IMO real time not a waste of resources. Aside from what james said real time info can be used to give arrival times when things happen that take trains off schedule like late night maintenance, or service disruptions like what happened to the expo line a few weeks ago or what somewhat regularly happens on the blue line. Though I do believe the current Screens should be capable of displaying real time arrival information once nextrip is applied to Metro Rail. The Orange Line which is on nextrip displays real time arrival info on its screens, and they look exactly like the screens Expo uses. I see some value in real time info, just not for what we're spending. Either way I think that such information could better be communicated by phones.
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Post by thanks4goingmetro on Jul 30, 2012 20:15:33 GMT -8
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Post by Gokhan on Jul 31, 2012 15:13:27 GMT -8
The Expo Line noise study is out. More or less all the noise measurements fall below the FTA criteria. You can read it here.
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Post by Gokhan on Jul 31, 2012 15:15:18 GMT -8
So, which light-rail lines currently have the HD displays?
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Post by jamesinclair on Jul 31, 2012 15:56:02 GMT -8
There is a huge value to real time info. You absolutely can do other things if you know the wait time, like grab good/drink etc or tell the person picking you up to delay their trip, or hop on a bike or take a bus.... A bike? People are going to leave the station, go home, and ride a bike instead?!? I already said bus. Bikeshare will be in LA in the near future.
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Post by bluelineshawn on Jul 31, 2012 17:19:07 GMT -8
A bike? People are going to leave the station, go home, and ride a bike instead?!? I already said bus. Bikeshare will be in LA in the near future. Ok. I can see that, although you'd have to already have paid your fare to see most of the screens. For the large majority of people these screens are offering a psychological benefit and will not assist in any transit decisions. Except maybe in cases when things are really screwed although in those cases they are already making announcements about how screwed everything is anyway. I know that they are popular and if that's what people want money spent on, then I have no real objection. If people see them as necessary, then for them I guess that they are (once real-time starts of course). Just my personal preference is all.
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Post by bluelineshawn on Jul 31, 2012 17:19:48 GMT -8
So, which light-rail lines currently have the HD displays? The gold line.
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Post by bluelineshawn on Jul 31, 2012 18:49:06 GMT -8
I've noticed those as well. I like that blog! Are you Steveland? Also, google has started adding delays to their directions and station information for NYCT. LA will get the same treatment someday. For now google does show the published schedule. 2nd Avenue Sagas
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Post by Transit Coalition on Aug 2, 2012 8:19:44 GMT -8
A bike? People are going to leave the station, go home, and ride a bike instead?!? I already said bus. Bikeshare will be in LA in the near future. Coverage of Bikeshare is on page 6 of the February issue of Moving Southern California. Check it out for complete details.
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Post by Gokhan on Aug 2, 2012 15:57:30 GMT -8
Metro CEO Art Leahy told at the board meeting today that they will run 6-minutes headways (in each direction) during the USC-football-game days.
Metro and Expo will promote the football events jointly and USC will send out e-mail blasts to everyone about Expo and park-and-ride facilities.
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Post by jamesinclair on Aug 2, 2012 16:04:02 GMT -8
Metro CEO Art Leahy told at the board meeting today that they will run 6-minutes headways (in each direction) during the USC-football-game days. Metro and Expo will promote the football events jointly and USC will send out e-mail blasts to everyone about Expo and park-and-ride facilities. May not be near enough for the post-game. They should see how other systems handle recurring events, it usually involves parking trains and dispatching them one by one, as soon as one train fills up the next one arrives to load. Pregame is easier because the crowds arrive over an extended period of time. Postgame, everyone leaves almost at the same time.
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Post by Alexis Kasperavičius on Aug 6, 2012 10:57:53 GMT -8
DASH Downtown bus adds two new stops to accommodate Expo rail lineDOWNTOWN LOS ANGELES — Beginning Monday, the Downtown DASH bus that runs from Union Station to South Park is adding two new stops to its route to accommodate the recently opened Metro Expo light-rail line. According to the Los Angeles Department of Transportation (LADOT), the two new Route D stops will be placed in each direction of 23rd and Flower streets. The other bus stops along the DASH line will remain the same, but the bus route will change slightly. Buses will arrive at each stop approximately every six minutes. The extended route will accommodate the Expo Line station located at 23rd and Flower streets. DASH fares will remain at 50 cents for the general public, 25 cents for people 65 or older, and $18 for a DASH monthly pass. (link)
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Post by Elson on Aug 6, 2012 13:52:15 GMT -8
Metro CEO Art Leahy told at the board meeting today that they will run 6-minutes headways (in each direction) during the USC-football-game days. Metro and Expo will promote the football events jointly and USC will send out e-mail blasts to everyone about Expo and park-and-ride facilities. May not be near enough for the post-game. They should see how other systems handle recurring events, it usually involves parking trains and dispatching them one by one, as soon as one train fills up the next one arrives to load. I'm sure Metro is aware of that, however there are no sidings in the area for which to park any trains. There will still be people who will drive in for whatever reason and pay $50 in parking out of habit, especially if they're in an SUV/van full of several people. As someone who has actually attended USC football games at the Coliseum, I anticipate the Expo Line crowds to be large, yet manageable. Also be aware that a good percentage of USC football fans are USC students (It's a university, duuuh) who need not take cars nor trains to the home games since they already live within walking distance.
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Post by bluelineshawn on Aug 6, 2012 18:51:04 GMT -8
Bruce Shelburne said that they have been working with USC to determine fan travel patterns to see which way they head after games. Obviously they are hoping that half head east (north) and the other half west to better move them. They are also concerned about the amount of pedestrians crossing at Trousdale. They have lots of concern, but my impression is that they plan on doing the best that they can and learn from that. It will probably be a learning experience for both Metro and fans.
He did say that they will have one or two opportunities to learn before the first football game with a couple of coliseum events before the game that should have very large crowds.
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Post by Elson on Aug 7, 2012 2:00:20 GMT -8
They are also concerned about the amount of pedestrians crossing at Trousdale. They have lots of concern, but my impression is that they plan on doing the best that they can and learn from that. It will probably be a learning experience for both Metro and fans. That's the first thing I thought of when I saw the completed USC/Expo Park station. The entire University makes it a ritual when heading to the Coliseum before a home game. The USC Trojan Marching Band leads a procession towards the stadium and kicks the base of the flagpoles on the south end of Trousdale for tradition and luck. The bollards that have been installed on either side of the tracks would certainly slow the flow of the crowds (Maybe people will kick on the bollards as well?) I'm quite sure the crossing will be regulated by crossing guards.
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Post by bzcat on Aug 7, 2012 10:15:12 GMT -8
Crossing the track will become a new (actually, revival of an old) tradition before the football game
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Post by Elson on Aug 7, 2012 10:32:43 GMT -8
Crossing the track will become a new (actually, revival of an old) tradition before the football game I know the Red Line has already been taken, but the Expo line color is too close to the UCLA color! People might kick the pylon sign during the next crosstown rivalry game!
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Post by jamesinclair on Aug 7, 2012 12:46:28 GMT -8
I'm sure Metro is aware of that, however there are no sidings in the area for which to park any trains. Which was a pretty terrible planning mistake.
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Post by Gokhan on Aug 7, 2012 13:57:44 GMT -8
I'm sure Metro is aware of that, however there are no sidings in the area for which to park any trains. Which was a pretty terrible planning mistake. It was a mistake not to include the nonrevenue connector -- the Metro-owned Exposition right-of-way between USC and the Blue Line. There was some community opposition to that and the Councilmember Perry sided with the opposition. It would have increased the cost of the project quite a bit (extra trench branch and several miles of additional track) but it would help a lot with the operations, including train storage.
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