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Post by Gokhan on Dec 4, 2012 14:42:53 GMT -8
Submit your vote at this thread.
My vote goes to Nippon Sharyo. I think they have been really robust and reliable, and they seem to break down less. They also have more train feeling.
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Post by joshuanickel on Dec 4, 2012 15:25:50 GMT -8
I voted for Nippon Sharyo. They are the most reliable of the current cars even for being 22 years old. I like the look of the bredas though.
My vote might change with the kinkysharyo 3010. We have to wait and see.
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Post by Gokhan on Dec 4, 2012 16:20:02 GMT -8
I voted for Nippon Sharyo. They are the most reliable of the current cars even for being 22 years old. I like the look of the bredas though. My vote might change with the kinkysharyo 3010. We have to wait and see. I would include Kinki Sharyo 3010 but it wouldn't be fair given that we haven't ridden them yet. I do expect them to beat all the existing vehicles though. |
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Post by bobdavis on Dec 4, 2012 19:02:26 GMT -8
The Breda units seem to be the "Rodney Dangerfield" LRVs--they "Don't get no respect." There's a subset of electric railway fans who consider them to be a mistake on wheels.
Probably not a fair entry, but for me nothing will top the Pacific Electric 600-700 class (Hollywood) cars.
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Post by bluelineshawn on Dec 4, 2012 20:17:24 GMT -8
As a long time blue line rider, I've been partial to the Nippon Sharyo cars. I like that they have the 4 single seats in each car for a little privacy. But that being said, I think that I might like the Siemens cars more. I like that all of the seats have legroom underneath rather than just a few. I think that they are also quieter, which is good. And the door chime is nice, and the automated announcements are clearer,...yeah I like these better.  |
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Post by transitfan on Dec 5, 2012 12:00:35 GMT -8
I vote for Nippon-Sharyo, since those are the only L. A. LRVs I have ridden (everything else came after I moved away). Hopefully, I'll get back there one day to ride the P2000s and the Bredas (probably by then the Knkis will be in service!)
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Post by gatewaygent on Dec 5, 2012 17:25:17 GMT -8
Nippon-Sharyo: because after MTA bus 266 was truncated back to the Lakewood Mall from the Long Beach VA Hospital/CSULB, I started riding MTA bus 111 to the Blue Line to LBT bus 91-94. Only once did one of the Blue Line cars start smoking at which time the conductor got on the radio and said "OK...everybody off!" He rode off and we all had to squeeze into the next train. Good times....
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Post by masonite on Dec 6, 2012 16:41:55 GMT -8
I still like the Breda subway cars, although the other cities I have ridden in in the US are SF and Washington and their cars are ancient so maybe that is why I like them. Ironically, I heard the Metro Operations guy saying they need to be replaced in the not too distant future, which seems odd to me since DC and SF are still using theirs from the 70s and for years we had more cars than we needed for operations. Seems like we should be getting another 20 years from these.
On the light rail, I would say Nippon Sharyo. They are just fine on the inside, but I agree they are looking pretty dated on the outside, especially when you compare to all the cities that have just opened light rail in the last decade like Minneapolis, Houston, Phoenix, Seattle, etc...
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Post by Gokhan on Dec 6, 2012 22:24:27 GMT -8
Siemens' definitely have more leg room because they don't have the boxes under the seats as Nippon Sharyo's do and they may have better sound insulation, especially at the articulation bellows, but they seem to be terrible in reliability. There are frequent door problems with them and they seem to have more ATP problems as well. Tonight's experience was pretty bad, too. I am glad that Siemens didn't win the P3010 contract. Japanese guys seem to build far more reliable light-rail vehicles, as they build far more reliable cars. "Made in Japan" still rules (even though Kinki Sharyo may build them in US). |
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Post by TransportationZ on Dec 6, 2012 22:48:18 GMT -8
Didn't notice this thread.
Anyway, continuing from what I said in the other thread.
Nippons are easily the best. Despite their age they have held up pretty well. Although they do look dated, they are certainly look the best compared to LRVs of similar age.
Breda's are just terrible. The interiors are small, the HVAC is ridiculously loud(Argh that thing sounds terrible, I can hear it from the outside.) and overall it seems like such a crappy LRV for all the BS Metro went through to get them.
Only plus of the Siemens is their large interiors and more modern design. Other than that, they are whatever. These seem to have their fair share of issues.
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Post by carter on Dec 9, 2012 16:56:30 GMT -8
Important thing to consider...
Anyone know what the effective passenger capacity of each of these LRT vehicles is (seated + comfortable standing)? I haven't been able to track down that info.
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Post by Elson on Dec 11, 2012 0:46:59 GMT -8
I voted for the Siemens P2000s...
They look nice on the inside and outside, and their design isn't dated at all (despite being designed over a decade ago). The Nippon-Sharyos, while cool-looking in their day, are showing their age and the Ansaldobreda LRVs were dated before they even arrived.
Yes I heard of some of the technical issues with the Siemens cars, which baffles me since I've never experienced them, and San Diego runs an all-Siemens fleet of 3 generations worth of LRVs and does perfectly fine.
I do think the Nippon-Sharyo cars are cool for having the mechanical bell.
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Post by metrocenter on Dec 11, 2012 8:52:47 GMT -8
The Nippon-Sharyo cars are *so old*. Each car has an old dedication "plaque", for some city along the Blue Line route. Each time I see one of these, I think how out of date the city populations are (since the plaques were made in the 1980s).
Functionality always comes first. So far, to me, they seem to perform equally well. I'm sure after I've ridden them for a few months, I'll have a better opinion of which is better. But for now, no vote.
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Post by skater on Nov 12, 2013 16:00:46 GMT -8
from a passenger point of view, I find the ansaldobredas to be my favorite. I ride them most days of the week and to me they feel like they have more space than the Nippon sharyos and have the best look of all of the current LRVs. I do understand, however that they are overweight and that is an operational problem. I still feel that they get a lot more hate than they deserve.
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Post by Gokhan on Nov 12, 2013 16:13:51 GMT -8
I was thinking again today how slow and awful the Siemens' are. Their ATP controller is so unforgiving that it's a pain to drive them through the low-speed-limit zones without stalling them. The train was about five-minute-late today from Culver City to Vermont and it could be 10-minute-late before it made it to 7th/Metro.
I hope they get rid of the Siemens's ASAP. Perhaps Green Line can retake them once they get the Kinkisharyo's for the Expo Line.
Nippon Sharyo's, despite being older, are still good. They all have LED header displays with aqua and blue dots now. They are also getting the new silver Metro livery.
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Post by thanks4goingmetro on Nov 21, 2013 7:50:02 GMT -8
Voted for Nippon Sharyo, having rode all lines they make the most balanced user experience-- smooth acceleration, comfortable seating, and they've aged well on the whole to be nearly 30 years old. The Siemens and Bredas would appear to have favor only for aesthetics, which they are handsome but they accelerate slowly and are quiet loud (HVAC on Breda, brakes on Siemens) and creaky.
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Post by Gokhan on Nov 21, 2013 15:01:36 GMT -8
Well, if you're on a Siemens on the Expo Line, you can count on that it will be late. It's really hard to drive Siemens' through ATP and they are very slow because of this.
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