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Post by metrocenter on Jan 30, 2016 6:32:47 GMT -8
Only one person out of 20 predicted the opening day correctly in the poll here. I wonder who he/she is. Based on past comments, I'm going to guess it was Bart ("Transit Coalition"). Since the poll opened, my best guess for the opening date was Q1 2016. Some said I was pessimistic: I guess the opposite was true.
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Post by masonite on Jan 30, 2016 14:34:08 GMT -8
I'd be ecstatic with May or June 2015, but I know there are just too many things to slow this down so I'll go with May 2016. This is what I guessed in early 2013. I think I had a different guess a few years earlier. At the time I think many on the board were predicting 2015 and there were only two or three of us who had any type of guess in 2016.
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Post by RMoses on Feb 3, 2016 12:07:30 GMT -8
My vote was "April - June 2016", looks to be the sweet spot, for now. What do I win?
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Post by thanks4goingmetro on Feb 16, 2016 16:32:54 GMT -8
I just got wind of a leak saying phase 2 opens on Sat, June 11, 2016.
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Post by masonite on Feb 17, 2016 16:45:40 GMT -8
I just got wind of a leak saying phase 2 opens on Sat, June 11, 2016. Could be. Everyone was saying May and then May 21 to be exact, but Phil Washington hasn't committed yet to a date. The Metro Board Meeting is Feb. 25 and it would seem an official announcement then would make sense, but I am not sure if they have officially handed over the Maintenance Yard yet, which needs to happen before an announcement is possible.
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Post by jdrcrasher on Feb 18, 2016 12:06:45 GMT -8
Woah, that's just over a week before the start of Summer.
As long as it's open by 4th of July then i'm happy.
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Post by John Ryan on Feb 18, 2016 12:15:31 GMT -8
I just got wind of a leak saying phase 2 opens on Sat, June 11, 2016. Could be. Everyone was saying May and then May 21 to be exact, but Phil Washington hasn't committed yet to a date. The Metro Board Meeting is Feb. 25 and it would seem an official announcement then would make sense, but I am not sure if they have officially handed over the Maintenance Yard yet, which needs to happen before an announcement is possible. Phil has been speaking inaccurately. If you watch the video of his talk with The Transit Coalition, he denies having said May 21 but switches back and forth between saying May or before beginning of Summer. He needs to speak more carefully and we need a firm date ASAP.
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Post by Gokhan on Feb 18, 2016 15:16:55 GMT -8
Opening day is being announced at the board meeting next Thursday and it will be (circa) May 21.
However, Metro is also planning two-car trains running 12-minute headways on Expo. This will be a horrible PR for Expo Phase 2. Two-car trains running every 12 minutes will be too crowded. Let's please contact Metro before the board meeting and ask the staff to reconsider this. One option is to get new P3010 rail cars from the Gold Line.
INVITE: Announcement of the Opening Date for Expo 2 Line Extension - Thursday, February 25, 2016
Dear Board Members,
We cordially invite you to attend a press conference to announce the opening date for the Expo 2 Line Extension -- from Culver City to Santa Monica. The event is scheduled to take place after the conclusion of the Metro Board of Directors meeting on Thursday, February 25 (approximately 12:30 p.m.) at the entrance to the Metro headquarters Gateway building.
When the Expo 2 Line Extension opens in spring 2016, the public will have the option to travel from downtown Los Angeles to downtown Santa Monica in 46 minutes. The ridership projections in both Expo phases are 64,000 riders by the year 2030.
Details:
Date: Thursday, February 25, 2016 Time: 12:30 p.m. (Conclusion of Regular Board Meeting) Location: Metro Headquarters, Plaza entrance Address: One Gateway Plaza, Los Angeles, CA 90012
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Post by culvercitylocke on Feb 19, 2016 8:48:15 GMT -8
Why is it bad pr for trains to "look" full?
Why is it bad pr that people might have to stand?
It is good pr if the train appears busy, not bad pr.
Bad pr is the trains appearing empty.
Basic stuff, two car trains are much more likely to result in good pr.
If the story then becomes that expo is so successful metro has to expand service or add cars that is GREAT pr.
Starting with three car trains means no opportunity for the "expanding service due to popularity" great pr moment.
I think you don't know what you're talking about when you're talking about pr.
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Post by masonite on Feb 19, 2016 9:27:26 GMT -8
Why is it bad pr for trains to "look" full? Why is it bad pr that people might have to stand? It is good pr if the train appears busy, not bad pr. Bad pr is the trains appearing empty. Basic stuff, two car trains are much more likely to result in good pr. If the story then becomes that expo is so successful metro has to expand service or add cars that is GREAT pr. Starting with three car trains means no opportunity for the "expanding service due to popularity" great pr moment. I think you don't know what you're talking about when you're talking about pr. I fall somewhere in the middle. Some people think it is a disaster that they aren't starting with 6 minute headways with 3 car trains, which I certainly do not. On the other hand, people in this city are predisposed to use their cars so if they have to stand they go back to their cars right away. A few standees is not the end of the world however. I rode Expo on Wed. night. The freeway was a mess in the rain with a 1.5 hour drive to Downtown from SM. Yet, even with that, there was plenty of room on the trains. They could have easily run 2 car trains and everyone would have had a seat. The train felt pretty empty sadly. Expo Phase II is located in a ROW that is not in walking distance of the population and work centers of the Westside except for the Downtown SM station. Connecting bus service is rather weak here and parking is limited and Metro is soon to charge for that parking. Ridership might take a little while to build and I imagine they will start running at least some 3 car trains soon after the opening as rail cars are placed in service after their testing period. Overall ridership is not only not growing on Metro but it is falling. Even with the Foothill Gold Line and Expo opening, we'll probably just get back to the rail ridership of a few years ago. Bottom line is that Metro's biggest problem is running empty trains not crowded trains.
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Post by Gokhan on Feb 19, 2016 13:45:36 GMT -8
Expo Line Phase 1 trains running two cars and 12-minute headway get overcrowded in rush hour. I can't imagine they could run Phase 2 with two-car trains and same headway, where the ridership will almost double, albeit not during the first week or two. When you are sandwiched between two guys, pressed hard from both sides, and you can't even make it to the door to exit the train, it's not good. Crowded is OK but overcrowded is not. It also leads to physical fights.
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Post by RMoses on Feb 19, 2016 14:00:39 GMT -8
Just open the segment already and adjust (take away cars from other lines) as needed. They have had near perfect weather, zero El nino impact are still dragging their feet.
Perhaps SM wants some extra time to get Colorado in shape.
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Post by masonite on Feb 19, 2016 14:29:11 GMT -8
Expo Line Phase 1 trains running two cars and 12-minute headway get overcrowded in rush hour. I can't imagine they could run Phase 2 with two-car trains and same headway, where the ridership will almost double, albeit not during the first week or two. When you are sandwiched between two guys, pressed hard from both sides, and you can't even make it to the door to exit the train, it's not good. Crowded is OK but overcrowded is not. It also leads to physical fights. Ridership may roughly double but the line will be roughly double the length as well so it really wouldn't be any more crowded. I haven't seen Expo very crowded even in rush hour. Only time I did was after an SC football game when the line broke down. Either way, it would be pretty temporary as new cars will come into service shortly after opening so I don't see it as a big deal at all, but that is just my opinion.
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Post by JerardWright on Feb 19, 2016 14:42:24 GMT -8
Just open the segment already and adjust (take away cars from other lines) as needed. They have had near perfect weather, zero El nino impact are still dragging their feet. Perhaps SM wants some extra time to get Colorado in shape. Problem with that is that there are not enough trains as is to take from other lines, in that approach. I feel they will need to adjust the schedules on the Blue Line as an example. Maybe go from every 6 minutes to every 7.5 minutes to Willow and every 15 to Long Beach which is how the frequency is working out these days due to delays.
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Post by JerardWright on Feb 19, 2016 14:49:07 GMT -8
Expo Line Phase 1 trains running two cars and 12-minute headway get overcrowded in rush hour. I can't imagine they could run Phase 2 with two-car trains and same headway, where the ridership will almost double, albeit not during the first week or two. When you are sandwiched between two guys, pressed hard from both sides, and you can't even make it to the door to exit the train, it's not good. Crowded is OK but overcrowded is not. It also leads to physical fights. I personally don't see it as bad because there are key stations are a short distance apart where a large number of passengers will load and unload such as USC/Expo Park Area, Crenshaw, Culver City, Westwood Blvd are like this and they are about 3 miles or 5-10 minute travel time apart so even if its a standing load it will be a short distance of time where this takes place. Plus the Expo Line is a solid line with bi-directional ridership so you can get by with 2 car trains on a 12 minute frequency because they are used well all along the line, one of the key reasons to build a rail corridor.
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Post by culvercitylocke on Feb 19, 2016 21:01:52 GMT -8
Expo Line Phase 1 trains running two cars and 12-minute headway get overcrowded in rush hour. I can't imagine they could run Phase 2 with two-car trains and same headway, where the ridership will almost double, albeit not during the first week or two. When you are sandwiched between two guys, pressed hard from both sides, and you can't even make it to the door to exit the train, it's not good. Crowded is OK but overcrowded is not. It also leads to physical fights. I've been on the 720 many times when I counted more than 40 people standing in the aisle for my entire run from 14th to Vermont. This was before the greatest thing metro ever did for bus riders put the double length buses with gasket in the middle on the road. Never seen a fight, only time I ever felt threatened in buses was when riding on more empty buses and someone looking for a fight was able to single out other riders. I often felt safer on crowded buses, even if it were more uncomfortable, because we were all in it together. There was no room to start crap, even if you wanted to.
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Post by fissure on Feb 20, 2016 13:09:48 GMT -8
Expo Phase II is located in a ROW that is not in walking distance of the population and work centers of the Westside except for the Downtown SM station. As someone who works at 26th/Colorado, I have to disagree with you there. There's also a lot of large office buildings on Olympic between the 405 and Bundy, though the Sepulveda station is too far south to be that useful to the east end of that strip. Most of these were built on the old industrial land surrounding the rail line. Palms is the densest area on the Westside, though it only skirts the corner of it.
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Post by masonite on Feb 20, 2016 21:58:40 GMT -8
Expo Phase II is located in a ROW that is not in walking distance of the population and work centers of the Westside except for the Downtown SM station. As someone who works at 26th/Colorado, I have to disagree with you there. There's also a lot of large office buildings on Olympic between the 405 and Bundy, though the Sepulveda station is too far south to be that useful to the east end of that strip. Most of these were built on the old industrial land surrounding the rail line. Palms is the densest area on the Westside, though it only skirts the corner of it. The Water Garden is there, but like you said about Palms the line more or less skirts most areas and they aren't pedestrian friendly at all in most cases.
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Post by Gokhan on Feb 21, 2016 20:22:08 GMT -8
I don't think there is a single Expo Line Phase 2 station that will have low ridership.
Palms: High-density residential area Westwood: Transit hub for Westwood, UCLA, and Century City Sepulveda: Commercial district and transit hub Bundy: Commercial district 26th St: Commercial district 17th St: Santa Monica College and transit hub for Santa Monica residents 4th St: Downtown Santa Monica -- No. 1 tourist destination in Southern California and highly commercial district
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Post by Gokhan on Feb 21, 2016 20:22:43 GMT -8
I think Phase 2 will jump the Expo Line ridership to around 45,000 within a week or two after it opens. I can't imagine they can run two-car trains with twelve-minute headway. I know Gold Line gets pretty crowded during rush hour with similar ridership, two-car trains, and six-minute headway. Can you imagine running twelve-minute headway on the Gold Line during rush hour? I know Expo Line used to get extremely crowded when the ridership was around 33,000 and they ran two-car trains. I am sure most trains will be three-car from the opening. In fact, just the other day, some elderly guy hit my Achilles tendon from behind with the sharp platform edge of his wheelchair when people were desperately trying to get into a two-car Expo train.
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Post by jamesinclair on Feb 22, 2016 13:42:21 GMT -8
The easiest way to increase headways is to run the trains faster so they can make more trips.
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Post by Gokhan on Feb 23, 2016 10:02:00 GMT -8
The easiest way to increase headways is to run the trains faster so they can make more trips. Lol, yes, round-trip time plus the wait at both terminals precisely equals the headway multiplied by number of trains. However, round-trip time is not a variable. To reduce the number of trains to 8 from 9, they would have to reduce to round-trip time to about 12*8 - 5 - 5 = 86 minutes (5 being the wait at the terminal). 86/2 = 43 minutes. I don't think they can reduce the trip time to 43 minutes from the current 46 minutes. The other option is to reduce the wait to 2 minutes but that's a little too tight.
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Post by fissure on Feb 23, 2016 10:14:47 GMT -8
The easiest way to increase headways is to run the trains faster so they can make more trips. Why didn't they think of that? I'm sure Phil Washington will wave his magic wand before the opening to make that happen. Skip-stop service, which is the only way they could actually speed things up, doesn't work very well with stops every mile or more. The J/Z in NYC can do it because the stations average less than half a mile apart.
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Post by johanragle on Feb 23, 2016 16:58:25 GMT -8
Latest announcement from The Source. Substantial completion achieved: Expo Line Phase 2 rail maintenance facility turned over to Metro
By Anna Chen on February 23, 2016 Santa Monica, we’re almost there! It’s official! The Expo Line Phase 2 rail operations and maintenance facility, located east of Stewart Street and north of Exposition Boulevard, was turned over to Metro today. This marks substantial completion of the project — ‘substantial completion’ means the project is nearly ready for use — and it means Metro will be able to start pre-revenue service testing along the new tracks soon. Meanwhile, the official opening date of Expo Phase 2 will be announced this Thursday, Feb. 25 after the monthly Board meeting. The Exposition Construction Authority is the independent agency charged with building the project, which was built in two phases. The first segment between downtown Los Angeles and Culver City opened in 2012. The $1.5-billion second phase completes the line to Santa Monica and adds seven new stations. The project was largely funded by Measure R, the half-cent sales tax increase approved by Los Angeles County voters in 2008.
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f ron
Full Member
Posts: 222
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Post by f ron on Feb 24, 2016 11:38:06 GMT -8
Great news! There's still construction work taking place with the sound walls located between Palms Park and Military --and perhaps even other residential adjacent segments as well. The crews I've spoken with have said the work will be going on for weeks. Presently they only have access to the tracks after 5pm Monday-Saturday for about 5.5 hours and all day access on Sunday when Metro suspends testing so they're allowed to work. Mechanical troubles set them back last Sunday so they're behind as it is. Once the sound wall work is completed (They're installing a 1.75" thick acoustic stucco. I guess the walls as built aren't passing muster and the decibels are exceeding acceptable levels.) they'll then need to go back and install shielding to the guideway lights which are not to Metro Criteria. Full-on pre-revenue running has still got to be weeks away. Maybe late March early April?
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Post by John Ryan on Feb 25, 2016 7:58:27 GMT -8
What time is the meeting today?
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Post by RMoses on Feb 25, 2016 12:42:47 GMT -8
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Post by Gokhan on Feb 25, 2016 12:55:04 GMT -8
Yup, off by a day. May 20, 2016, is the official opening. I am glad that I said (circa) May 21 when I reported it earlier. I don't know how they will handle the opening ceremony (perhaps none) and free rides (perhaps none). My guess: ceremony on Thursday and free rides only in the weekend. thesource.metro.net/2016/02/25/17-things-to-know-about-the-expo-phase-2-opening/I am guessing that they will have enough rail cars to run three-car trains by then. 9 trains (27 cars) plus spare cars is all that is needed to run round-trip between the DTLA and DTSM terminalas. It looks like currently they have 26 cars, including 8 P3010s. They should receive about 5 P3010s every month. It takes a week or two to break in a new P3010 (1,500 miles). Expo Line Phase 1 length was reported incorrectly in the Source article. 8.5 miles was for the Washington/National Station, which was never built. Venice/Robertson Station is 8.7 miles from the DTLA Station. Total line length is 8.7 + 6.6 = 15.3 miles.
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Post by RMoses on Mar 1, 2016 11:59:54 GMT -8
Is a fan trip taking place?
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Post by thanks4goingmetro on Mar 1, 2016 14:30:11 GMT -8
Is a fan trip taking place? tonyw79sfv and I plan to ride phase 2 on the first day. This is in keeping with us riding out on the first Expo train of the day in 2012. The more the merrier
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