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Post by masonite on Sept 15, 2014 13:29:51 GMT -8
Construction, including fences, is expected to be finished by December 31, 2014. However, work on electrical and train-control systems will continue at least until April or May 2015. After that, the line will be handed over to Metro. Train testing starts with clearance testing using dummy carts. They then slowly pull a single-car train using a truck. These last for a couple of weeks. After that, you see slowly running self-powered single-car trains. At this point, all intersections are controlled by flagmen. They gradually increase the speed and add more cars. Once the signals and barriers are checked to be working, no flagmen are needed. This could take several months. At a later point, prerevenue operation starts, which lasts for at least a month. Prerevenue operation mimics the revenue operation. After the prerevenue, the line opens to revenue service. Testing also includes operator training. The whole testing and start-up process can take up to a year. Note that the operation and maintenance facility won't be finished until May or later. It also needs to be tested just like the rest of the line. 107 days, minus holidays, sounds rather optimistic to me for an end to construction given the state of construction today. We'll see! I agree. Seems almost impossible to me given the look of the line along Colorado and a few other places. It is coming together, but I'd be pretty shocked if major construction is done by year-end.
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Post by metrocenter on Sept 15, 2014 13:47:29 GMT -8
I would LOVE for this to be open by mid-year 2015. But I'm sticking to my prediction of Q1 2016, because of the potential issues, such as lack of LRV availability, and the small but critical buckle in the Great Wall of West LA.
There is risk not only due to the actual issues, but because of how leadership may react to these issues. You never know how politicians like the Metro Board might overreact to things.
Prove me wrong, Skanska, Expo Authority and Metro Board!
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Post by Philip on Sept 15, 2014 22:57:35 GMT -8
This might be a shot in the dark, but couldn't a phased opening to Sepulveda be possible for mid-2015?
The line is more or less complete up to that point. All they need to do is lay a few more tracks to Sepulveda, add the OCS, and finish the stations.
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Post by fissure on Sept 15, 2014 23:57:41 GMT -8
This might be a shot in the dark, but couldn't a phased opening to Sepulveda be possible for mid-2015? The line is more or less complete up to that point. All they need to do is lay a few more tracks to Sepulveda, add the OCS, and finish the stations. They'd have to re-do the EIR, since unlike phase 1 no partial openings were studied. I don't know if they'd really save much time.
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Post by masonite on Sept 16, 2014 8:48:25 GMT -8
I would LOVE for this to be open by mid-year 2015. But I'm sticking to my prediction of Q1 2016, because of the potential issues, such as lack of LRV availability, and the small but critical buckle in the Great Wall of West LA. There is risk not only due to the actual issues, but because of how leadership may react to these issues. You never know how politicians like the Metro Board might overreact to things. Prove me wrong, Skanska, Expo Authority and Metro Board! If anyone goes to the Expo Update Meeting tonight, they can ask Skanska. Their answer though would be the best case scenario. We'll see.
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Post by Gokhan on Sept 16, 2014 10:50:19 GMT -8
I'll attend the Palms / Cheviot Hills meeting next week. I'll ask about the Centinela MSE as well the completion date.
expolinefan reports that at the end of every month starting in April, four P3010 LRVs will be delivered. There will also be two prototype cars before then, the first coming on October 10 and the second in January. Each car needs to be tested for two months. Expo is currently short two LRVs to run Phase 1. They have been running some two-car trains, which get very crowded and people get very agitated. So, we need two cars for Phase 1, perhaps two or three spare cars, and nine more cars for Phase 2. It looks like the line could easily open in September 2015 but I don't know if it will be tolerable with 12-minute headways. For 6-minute headways, they need 27 more cars, which is seven more months, and that would put the opening in April 2016 if 6-minute headways are sought.
So:
Phase 2 opening with 12-minute headways: September 2015 Phase 2 opening with 6-minute headways: April 2016
Once they have enough cars, Both Expo and Blue Lines will run with 5-minute headways.
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Post by metrocenter on Sept 16, 2014 11:35:27 GMT -8
"P3010 Rail Car Vehicle Procurement" project schedule status, per Metro, 5 September:
"Schedule is very aggressive and any impacts to critical activities could result in delayed deliveries. Current updated schedule from Kinkisharyo still shows contract on schedule."
Some additional details:
In particular, the issues with train-to-wayside communications integration concern me. Didn't they have similar issues last time? Also, they seem to be concerned about "availability of testing track". Hopefully they'll find someplace which allows for testing: they are going to have a lot of vehicles to test.
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Post by metrocenter on Sept 16, 2014 14:07:37 GMT -8
Kinkisharyo will soon be building a construction facility for Metro's LRVs. Apparently, there is a dispute going on between the company and the electrical workers union. The following is from a motion put forth by several members of the Metro Board, asking Art Leahy to do what it takes to get the issue between the union and Kinkisharyo settled.
The union is asking for a full EIR to be completed. Not sure what the union wants to get out of this.
A delay for a full EIR would most likely result in the facility being moved out of the county and delivery of LRVs being delayed.
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Post by TransportationZ on Sept 16, 2014 14:17:19 GMT -8
This BS is getting ridiculous. There seems to be a lawsuit involved with every move Metro makes. What do the unions want?
I say screw trying to give Palmdale jobs when they don't want it. They should build the LRVs in Japan and ship 'em over here.
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Post by bzcat on Sept 16, 2014 17:11:31 GMT -8
Unions likely want their members to have employment preference. Not sure if Kinkisharyo has agreed to be a union shop.
This is just another example of the environmental law being abused for something else entirely.
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Post by Alexis Kasperavičius on Sept 17, 2014 0:04:00 GMT -8
It's a good thing Kinkisharyo had the foresight to put such a clause in their contract. If the union fails to back down, as is typical, I can imagine more than one town will offer incentives up to and including tax breaks, etc. in order get the factory. The union members will end up with an empty sack and a bunch of rhetoric.
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Post by Gokhan on Sept 17, 2014 10:14:10 GMT -8
expolinefan says that apparently there are already eight P3010 cars in the Palmdale factory that Kinkisharyo is working on and they are expecting six more to be delivered soon. However, no one is talking publicly. All the talk about conformance testing, EMI and TWC, and unions may likely be a nonissue. However, that "greenmailer" law firm did a lot of damage in the past as reported by Antelope Valley Press. Apparently they reported at last night's meeting that Expo Line Phase 2 train testing will start in late December.
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Post by masonite on Sept 17, 2014 11:30:07 GMT -8
expolinefan says that apparently there are already eight P3010 cars in the Palmdale factory that Kinkisharyo is working on and they are expecting six more to be delivered soon. However, no one is talking publicly. All the talk about conformance testing, EMI and TWC, and unions may likely be a nonissue. However, that "greenmailer" law firm did a lot of damage in the past as reported by Antelope Valley Press. Apparently they reported at last night's meeting that Expo Line Phase 2 train testing will start in late December. That is good news. Their presentation says construction is 70% completed and station construction is 63% completed, but they seem to have most major construction set to complete by Dec. 2014 including track installation. The testing starting at the first of the year would likely just be clearance testing initially for a while. One odd thing is that they left off the Bundy station update here. Usually they include that with the SM portion I believe (even though it is in LA, although west of the 405). It seems like they just don't want to talk about that station and the wall issue as was earlier reported here.
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Post by joshuanickel on Sept 17, 2014 12:19:58 GMT -8
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Post by Gokhan on Sept 17, 2014 15:10:09 GMT -8
This Tuesday there will be a P3010 update meeting and we may find out more.
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Post by bobdavis on Sept 18, 2014 23:07:07 GMT -8
Out in Gold Line country: Haven't had an official word yet, but one local rumor reports that by the time the P3010 cars are ready for testing, the yard lead track in Monrovia, and the trolley wire from Monrovia to Irwindale should be ready for test operation. We're less than a month away from completion of the track construction between East Pasadena and Azusa-Citrus, and a "driving of the last Pandrol clip" ceremony is scheduled for Oct. 18.
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Post by Gokhan on Sept 19, 2014 8:55:16 GMT -8
Out in Gold Line country: Haven't had an official word yet, but one local rumor reports that by the time the P3010 cars are ready for testing, the yard lead track in Monrovia, and the trolley wire from Monrovia to Irwindale should be ready for test operation. We're less than a month away from completion of the track construction between East Pasadena and Azusa-Citrus, and a "driving of the last Pandrol clip" ceremony is scheduled for Oct. 18. It sounds like the Gold Line contractor Kiewit is even faster than Skanska. Gold Line construction started after the Expo Line; yet, they may be ahead now. Skanska lately seems to be taking their time. It's lucky for the Gold Line that they don't need any P3010s to run the line to Azusa. Current Breda rolling stock is sufficient to run the line to Azusa with the existing headways and two-car train sets. If the unions manage to halt Kinkisharyo, Gold Line will not be be affected but Expo Line certainly will.
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Post by TransportationZ on Sept 19, 2014 11:13:43 GMT -8
But the Gold Line is (seemingly) less complicated though. The majority of it is just laying down ballasted track and bridge replacements. Expo, although shorter, has street running, huge retaining walls, multiple Venice Bl sized bridges, each requiring direct fixation rail, the I-10 box and the 4th/Colorado Terminal, building all of this in the very built-up westside.
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Post by metrocenter on Sept 23, 2014 7:01:56 GMT -8
But the Gold Line is (seemingly) less complicated though. The majority of it is just laying down ballasted track and bridge replacements. Expo, although shorter, has street running, huge retaining walls, multiple Venice Bl sized bridges, each requiring direct fixation rail, the I-10 box and the 4th/Colorado Terminal, building all of this in the very built-up westside. Yes, less complicated, but still plenty was involved. The project included several new bridges, including the "basket bridge" over the 210 freeway and the new crossing of the San Gabriel River. Not to mention the new M&O facility, and reconfiguration of an intersection in Duarte. Still, every project is different from every other, so it's always hard to do comparisons. They'll both be done in 2016, barring some major interruption. Any way you look at it, Metro's going to need some LRVs, very soon.
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Post by TransportationZ on Sept 23, 2014 12:31:16 GMT -8
nevermind.
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Post by Gokhan on Sept 24, 2014 16:02:34 GMT -8
expolinefan reports that the very first P3010 rail car will be brought to the Green Line yard in the very early morning hours of Friday, October 10, 2014.
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Post by tramfan on Sept 25, 2014 11:38:51 GMT -8
Is anybody volunteering to be there to take pictures?
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Post by Gokhan on Oct 2, 2014 10:32:57 GMT -8
More details: Substantial completion (current estimate [@ 50% completion]): July 10, 2015 Length of testing and start-up: 150 days ROD (current estimate [@ 50% completion]): December 7, 2015 Contingency (current estimate [@ 50% completion]): 167 days ROD with contingency (current estimate [@ 50% completion]): May 22, 2016 Old contingency (estimate at project start): 334 days Old ROD date with contingency (estimate at project start): November 5, 2016 Next estimate for contingency and ROD with contingency: to be made at 90% completion Note that the project is currently 100% on schedule @ 50% completion. That's why the contingency was exactly cut by half (by 50%) from 334 days to 167 days. Bad news from the Palms / Cheviot Hills meeting on Tuesday. Skanska no longer intends to complete the construction early. They will complete the line and hand it over to Metro on the date specified on the contract, which is July 10, 2015. This is the earliest date the prerevenue operation can begin. This is in line with my observations that Skanska has been moving with a tortoise speed lately. They no longer have any intention of finishing the line ahead of schedule. At the end, since the main constraint will be the light-rail car availability, this won't affect the opening of the line to service. The opening could be as late as April 2016 for 6-minute headways. Since Kinki Sharyo is expected to speed up things, this could move the 6-minute-headway opening to January of February 2016 or so. Good news is that initial testing is still expected to start as early as January 2015. This is when we will see slow trains running through crossings with flagsmen. Most of the major construction should be finished by the end of 2014. 2015 will be mostly electrical/signals work, including the integration of the signals with LADOT.
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Post by culvercitylocke on Oct 2, 2014 10:38:28 GMT -8
Looks like foothill unfortunately won the race. They should open expo 2 with the current head ways and improve service as cars become available.
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f ron
Full Member
Posts: 222
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Post by f ron on Oct 2, 2014 11:15:43 GMT -8
I can't say I'm surprised by the news that SKANSKA isn't going to wrap it up early. The pace of construction to me --admittedly a novice-- never indicated a December finish. There's just so much yet to be completed. I'm doubtful even that all track, OSC and strung copper will be completed by years end.
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Post by metrocenter on Oct 2, 2014 13:03:36 GMT -8
Bad news from the Palms / Cheviot Hills meeting on Tuesday. Skanska no longer intends to complete the construction early. They will complete the line and hand it over to Metro on the date specified on the contract, which is July 10, 2015. This is the earliest date the prerevenue operation can begin. Hopefully that date will hold. And hopefully, Skanska won't continue its foot-dragging when it builds the (now under construction) Regional Connector.
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Post by Philip on Oct 2, 2014 14:40:15 GMT -8
So an opening with six-minute headways can't happen, but in all fairness, it was really a longshot at best.
Is there a clause or something in the EIR that prevents Metro from opening the line with anything more than six-minute headways? If the new cars are going to begin arriving in June, Metro should be able to at least run 10-12 minute headways for the first few months of service with a Fall 2015 opening.
Yes, it might be a little crowded during rush hour, but so are trains in every major city.
Then, come 2016, the six-minute headways can begin.
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Post by Transit Coalition on Oct 2, 2014 15:53:47 GMT -8
So an opening with six-minute headways can't happen, but in all fairness, it was really a longshot at best. Is there a clause or something in the EIR that prevents Metro from opening the line with anything more than six-minute headways? If the new cars are going to begin arriving in June, Metro should be able to at least run 10-12 minute headways for the first few months of service with a Fall 2015 opening. Yes, it might be a little crowded during rush hour, but so are trains in every major city. Then, come 2016, the six-minute headways can begin. There has never been an Expo opening date published and Metro has said for the last few years: Spring 2016. The Metro Staff has said that the Expo Line would run with 12 minute headways until the new cars were tested and available in the middle of 2016. What is true is a lot of guessing and misinformation posted by enthusiastic advocates about project completion and car availability. No one should be disappointed that the line will open when it has passed operations of the SCADA system in late 2015, has gotten safety approval and PUC approval. Sure people have a right to be optimistic and wish to see an early opening. However, there still remains a disconnect from some folks on this board and what Metro Operations staff intends to actually do. Metro also has the issue of the Gold Line, which may be completed first and staff wants many months of separation between both openings. Don't be surprised if Expo gets delayed a bit more. Sorry. Safety first.
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Post by Gokhan on Oct 3, 2014 9:56:11 GMT -8
So an opening with six-minute headways can't happen, but in all fairness, it was really a longshot at best. Is there a clause or something in the EIR that prevents Metro from opening the line with anything more than six-minute headways? If the new cars are going to begin arriving in June, Metro should be able to at least run 10-12 minute headways for the first few months of service with a Fall 2015 opening. Yes, it might be a little crowded during rush hour, but so are trains in every major city. Then, come 2016, the six-minute headways can begin. A little crowded? Expect this if Phase 2 opens with 12-minute headways: With the caveat given above, there is absolutely no reason for the Expo Line Phase 2 not to open in Fall 2015 with 12-minute headway. There will be plenty of broken-in P3010s for 12-minute headways and testing and prerevenue operation will have been finished around September.
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Post by culvercitylocke on Oct 3, 2014 11:04:28 GMT -8
Now that administration post was seriously pedantic and tone deaf. Opening the two lines six months apart is not safety first it is laziness first.
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