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Post by jamckinnon on Feb 8, 2008 17:59:26 GMT -8
This may be in the wrong category but it is connection-related. Some time ago I saw some coverage of a possible improvement at Union Station that would create a direct link between the Gold Line and the subway. Because the cross sectional area where the respective platforms overlap is limited and there is also the Union Station platform access tunnel to deal with, the options could be few. This could mean an elevator only. Can anyone update this subject? Jack
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Mac
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Posts: 192
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Post by Mac on Feb 8, 2008 19:02:06 GMT -8
Ya this was mentioned somewhere on this forum, I'll find the post.
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Post by roadtrainer on Feb 9, 2008 9:26:59 GMT -8
Ya this was mentioned somewhere on this forum, I'll find the post. ;D Hey Mac, Are you guys talking about the new ramp at the end of the bridge that crosses the 101 Freeway? Sincerely The Roadtrainer
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Post by bluelineshawn on Feb 9, 2008 16:52:21 GMT -8
There is that wall at the bottom of the gold line entrance that could be removed for more direct access to the subway. That was posted on the old forum.
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Post by Tony Fernandez on Feb 9, 2008 17:55:43 GMT -8
I've always thought that the portal where you enter the Red Line station could be extended to that little room that you go in before going on the Gold Line platform. That would give you a lot more space for the people there and for the machines. Yes or no?
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Mac
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Post by Mac on Feb 9, 2008 21:13:45 GMT -8
Meh, after searching for a long time, I guess I couldn't find it. I think there should some way that the Gold and Red line can connect. I think we mite have to look at a map of Union Station if there is one.
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Post by erict on Feb 10, 2008 10:39:19 GMT -8
There is a link to a diagram on the transit coalition website to the possible pedestrian tunnel connecting the red and gold line. It is from the LAUS Run-Through project. I think once the Eastside Gold line extension opens next year, the need for this tunnel will be clear: www.thetransitcoalition.us/RedLine.htmI think that this is what you guys are talking about. graci
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Post by bluelineshawn on Feb 10, 2008 16:47:05 GMT -8
Thanks for that link. I hadn't seem that diagram before. And now after seeing it, I don't think that constructing a new walkway would really save that much time or very many steps. Maybe 30 seconds or so for most people?
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Post by Tony Fernandez on Feb 10, 2008 19:51:41 GMT -8
So this would be a part of the Run Through Project? So then whatever happened to that project?
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Post by tonyw79sfv on Feb 10, 2008 19:57:27 GMT -8
It won't make a difference for me if that access is elevator only. Those elevators would get so crowded that it's better to use the existing Red Line west portal access anyways. Besides, I'm a stairs guy, I find it faster taking the stairs up.
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Mac
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Post by Mac on Feb 10, 2008 21:10:10 GMT -8
I think that diagram was one of the things I was looking for. Well, that tunnel is gonna have to be done soon. The main passage way is crowded enough during rush hour.
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Post by bluelineshawn on Feb 11, 2008 7:46:35 GMT -8
So this would be a part of the Run Through Project? So then whatever happened to that project? It was either canceled or put on hold. I can't remember which.
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Post by erict on Feb 11, 2008 8:20:27 GMT -8
I think the EIR is finished and it is awaiting funding.....until then nothing seems to be happening.
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Post by wad on Feb 12, 2008 1:57:01 GMT -8
So this would be a part of the Run Through Project? So then whatever happened to that project? The run-through project, the one that would allow for trains to travel south of Union Station, is something else entirely. I don't think it deals with a Gold Line-to-Red Line connection.
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Post by wad on Feb 12, 2008 1:59:07 GMT -8
Meh, after searching for a long time, I guess I couldn't find it. I think there should some way that the Gold and Red line can connect. I think we mite have to look at a map of Union Station if there is one. You'd need a schematic map, as you'd have to find the angle of approach of the subway into Union Station. For all we know, it may not be possible for a single elevator because the platforms don't offer a connection.
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Post by damiengoodmon on Feb 12, 2008 10:14:18 GMT -8
This may seem more complicated to explain without diagrams but there are basically 4 levels. From top to bottom they are:
-Gold Line platform level -Union Station track access tunnel, which is also the "mezzanine level" for the Gold Line, if you will -Red Line mezzanine level -Red Line platform level
The most effective connection would be to connect the two mezzanine levels. Based on the diagram it would also require creating a walkway.
So to get from the Gold Line platform to the Red Line platform one would: 1) Walk up the existing stairs from the Red Line platform level to the existing Red Line mezzanine level, where there would be a newly created walkway 2) Walk down the newly created walkway 3) Go up newly created stairs that would lead directly to the existing Gold Line "mezzanine level" 4) Go up the existing Gold Line stairs to the existing Gold Line platform
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Post by Tony Fernandez on Feb 12, 2008 11:22:09 GMT -8
Wouldn't it be easier to connect the Gold Line mezzanine level to the Union Station West Entrance to the Red Line?
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Post by kenalpern on Feb 12, 2008 11:36:02 GMT -8
I'm a big, big, big fan of moving walkways in airports and transportation centers. I'm not sure that the walkway Damien is describing is a moving one, but my $.02 is that it would be a good idea--provided that it's in working condition! As with escalators and elevators and ticket machines, they need to be working to get the job done...
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Post by bluelineshawn on Feb 12, 2008 12:04:56 GMT -8
Wouldn't it be easier to connect the Gold Line mezzanine level to the Union Station West Entrance to the Red Line? Naaahh. That would make too much sense. It also looks like to me that you could have stairs or an elevator directly from the gold line platform to the red line platform if that's what we wanted to spend our money on. Of course the downtown regional connector will make many of these transfers go away as people opt for the one seat ride.
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Post by bluelineshawn on Feb 12, 2008 12:08:05 GMT -8
I'm a big, big, big fan of moving walkways in airports and transportation centers. I'm not sure that the walkway Damien is describing is a moving one, but my $.02 is that it would be a good idea--provided that it's in working condition! As with escalators and elevators and ticket machines, they need to be working to get the job done... It's not a far enough distance to need a moving walkway. It's precisely because the distance is so short that people are wondering what it would take to implement the improvement.
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Post by damiengoodmon on Feb 12, 2008 12:11:47 GMT -8
Tony,
It's easier. But the question becomes, with a downtown connector (bringing in passengers from Bunker Hill, Culver City, South LA, Long Beach, etc.) how long will it be before that track access tunnel reaches capacity? Anyone that says no one rides the trains in Los Angeles, needs to just go to those tunnels between 8-9 am or 4-6 pm.
Best to let the main track access tunnel traffic be for those traveling/transferring to Metrolink and Amtrack or going to the bus bay and have a completely different walk path for Metro Rail to Metro Rail commuters.
One could even create a parallel tunnel to the main track access tunnel.
Then again it all depends on how many and where the joint stations for the DTC are. We know one will be 7th/Flower, which is going to be insane and needs major revisions ASAP. But what about Little Tokyo and Civic Center, and how do they lines connect - is Expo and Eastside Extension one and Blue and Gold another, etc.
Ken,
I wasn't envisioning a moving one, and I don't think it's long enough to justify the cost; then again I may be wrong. I'm more or less talking about a pedestrian tunnel.
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Post by damiengoodmon on Feb 12, 2008 12:16:38 GMT -8
It also looks like to me that you could have stairs or an elevator directly from the gold line platform to the red line platform if that's what we wanted to spend our money on. Of course the downtown regional connector will make many of these transfers go away as people opt for the one seat ride. You'd still need to connect to/create another mezzanine level of the Red Line. It's just a matter of how. And with all of these proposals, it would probably be wise to widen the Gold Line platforms, especially with the additional traffic from a DTC.
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Post by Tony Fernandez on Feb 12, 2008 12:41:04 GMT -8
Damien, I think that widening that platform would be a great idea. You can get rid of the parking that kind of juts into the rail yard use that extra space to make the platform wider.
As for my tunnel idea, I was thinking of going directly to the Gold Line mezzanine from the US Red Line entrance and not using the existing passenger tunnel. The main tunnel right now isn't too bad during rush hour, but the Gold Line mezzanine definitely is and something needs to be done about that already.
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Post by bluelineshawn on Feb 12, 2008 13:26:36 GMT -8
I don't know about all of them, but now that you mention it neither the platform width nor the stair access/mezzanine are going to work well at all if transfers are anything like Rosa Parks, 7th/metro, or union station.
I think that the Pico platform may need to be widened for Blue/expo as well. It won't have nearly as many pax's but it's one of the narrower platforms.
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Post by JerardWright on Feb 12, 2008 14:41:32 GMT -8
I think that the Pico platform may need to be widened for Blue/expo as well. It won't have nearly as many pax's but it's one of the narrower platforms. At Pico there are two trains of thought. 1) We could add 75' of length to the northside of the platform to allow more riders on the platform. This would reconfigure the waiting area and 12th Street entrance. 2) The other way is to add a second platform given the crowds around Staples events this might be the better option. One way to do that is have Metro take the east Flower Street sidewalk to build an elevated sidewalk that will double as the new second platform. Given the location becomes a new Northbound platform towards Downtown and the existing island platform would be a Southbound only platform away from Downtown. To aid in passenger safety a guardrail installed 2' from the edge of the existing platform to reduce passengers accidently boarding the wrong side of the train. This would double the capacity of the station and make the station more comfortable for larger crowds. This design is modeled from Calgary's LRT on 7th Avenue where that is designated as a transit mall and two of the platforms are simply wide elevated sidewalks that are integrated into the new building that double as the waiting platform. This would allow a unique opportunity to add future streetscape elements in this section to conform to this new feature. The elevated platform will be ramped at both ends to allow pedestrians right on and for obvious ADA purposes. For Union Station, what's needed are extra stair cases/ramps with an 150' extension of the platform so that more passengers can manuever and make the transfers. The bulk of these issues will be resolved by building the Downtown Connector which would reduce the number of transfers to the Subway to make the final destination Downtown OR as I'm seeing recently make another transfer to the Blue Line.
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Post by bobdavis on Feb 13, 2008 12:09:05 GMT -8
Having made the Red to Gold transfer on many occasions, I know it's a bit of a hike. On the other hand, New Yorkers, Chicagoans and Bostonians would say it's just a hop, skip and jump compared to some of their rapid transit transfers; in NYC there are block long tunnels one must walk (or run) to change lines. Of course, this is a relic of the days when there were three transit systems (IRT, BMT and IND) which were combined on the business side many years ago, and have had some reconfigurations to make a more logical system, but still have some awkward transfers. I can also mention the legendary Pacific Electric, which had two main terminals in LA, several blocks apart--if you wanted to go from Pasadena or Long Beach to Hollywood, the Red Car took you to Sixth & Main, then you walked or took a cab to 425 S. Hill (Subway Terminal).
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Post by erict on Feb 13, 2008 14:55:35 GMT -8
The transfer in Chicago from the Blue line to the Red line (if I remember correctly) downtown was an endless ugly tunnel. Union station is very spacious and beautiful in comparison. Ah well, there are much more important issues to tackle before this one.
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Post by bluelineshawn on Sept 4, 2008 21:35:00 GMT -8
I was on the gold line a while back and wondered about all of the metrolink riders that will be using the connector. It's too bad that there's no way to connect the gold line platform to the metrolink platforms from the top side. That gold line stairway is probably going to get super busy when the connector opens. Or is this type of connection doable at some point? I have a picture below for reference.
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Post by rayinla on Sept 5, 2008 8:04:31 GMT -8
They could always build a skybridge like the LIRR Jamaica Station in Queens.
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Post by James Fujita on Sept 6, 2008 21:35:16 GMT -8
heck, it wouldn't even have to be as fancy as the LIRR skybridge, although I do like the looks of it.
it would be tricky to build because the platforms aren't that wide and you already have the stairs and the ramps that head down into the tunnel. however, as local rail service grows, it may become necessary to either widen the tunnel or add pedestrian bridges.
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