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Post by johanragle on Apr 13, 2016 14:59:39 GMT -8
Via The Source. thesource.metro.net/2016/04/13/community-meetings-announced-for-willowbrookrosa-parks-station-improvement-project/ There are two upcoming meetings for the Willowbrook/Rosa Parks Station Improvement Project to help improve the busy station that also serves as the transfer point between the Blue Line and Green Line. The improved station will include: new lighting and signage; upgraded stairs, elevators and escalators; a civic plaza with a Metro customer service center; bike station; transit security facility, and; enhanced connections to the surrounding community. In the past year, Metro has been working to complete the legally-required environmental studies for the project, securing the necessary local, state and federal funding and hiring a team to complete the final design for the project. The meetings are a chance for Metro to share the latest project information with riders and stakeholders. The meetings will also include county representatives who will be available to provide updates on other projects near the station. The meetings are: Tuesday, April 19 6 p.m. – 8 p.m. Martin Luther King, Jr. Center for Public Health 11833 Wilmington Ave, Los Angeles, CA 90059 Tuesday, May 17 6 p.m. – 8 p.m. Martin Luther King, Jr. Center for Public Health 11833 Wilmington Ave, Los Angeles, CA 90059 The project also now has its own web page on metro.net. As for the project schedule, here it is: Conceptual Design – March to June 2016 Preliminary Engineering – June 2016 to September 2016 Final Design/Contractor Solicitation – September 2016 to March 2017 Construction – April 2017 to December 2018 Project Closeout – June 2019 The station will remain open throughout construction and the project will be phased in order to preserve as much convenience for Metro travelers as possible. |
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Post by bluelineshawn on Feb 17, 2018 15:35:22 GMT -8
What a mess this has become! Metro wants to shut the blue line down for nearly a year to make upgrades, including to Rosa parks/Willowbrook? This is a philosophical shift in the way that metro conducts business. Save money at the expense of riders. This is outrageous.
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Post by masonite on Feb 17, 2018 18:54:13 GMT -8
What a mess this has become! Metro wants to shut the blue line down for nearly a year to make upgrades, including to Rosa parks/Willowbrook? This is a philosophical shift in the way that metro conducts business. Save money at the expense of riders. This is outrageous. It certainly is disappointing. Haven't they been working on repairing the track and signaling systems over the last few years with intermittent delays and one tracking. This is def surprising and it will probably take years for ridership to recover. Hopefully, they throw a carrot out there afterwards like going back to decent headways after 8:00 p.m. |
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Post by bluelineshawn on Feb 18, 2018 13:03:00 GMT -8
What a mess this has become! Metro wants to shut the blue line down for nearly a year to make upgrades, including to Rosa parks/Willowbrook? This is a philosophical shift in the way that metro conducts business. Save money at the expense of riders. This is outrageous. It certainly is disappointing. Haven't they been working on repairing the track and signaling systems over the last few years with intermittent delays and one tracking. This is def surprising and it will probably take years for ridership to recover. Hopefully, they throw a carrot out there afterwards like going back to decent headways after 8:00 p.m. Agreed. And in case I wasn’t clear, this represents a dramatic shift in approach to maintenance. Metro is valuing savings over customers. If they choose to close the blue line for nearly a year, we won’t be seeing a major push to finish the work with round the clock maintenance. We’ll see daytime work with a standard/minimal crew working daytime hours. It really is a significant change in approach to anything that we’ve ever seen. And i really think that they are devaluing customers. It’s like they think that they are maintaining a public attraction and not a public service. |
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Post by culvercitylocke on Feb 19, 2018 8:07:36 GMT -8
Ever since the BRU judgment expired metro has across the board gone from excellent service to really awful service
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Post by masonite on Feb 20, 2018 11:08:48 GMT -8
It certainly is disappointing. Haven't they been working on repairing the track and signaling systems over the last few years with intermittent delays and one tracking. This is def surprising and it will probably take years for ridership to recover. Hopefully, they throw a carrot out there afterwards like going back to decent headways after 8:00 p.m. Agreed. And in case I wasn’t clear, this represents a dramatic shift in approach to maintenance. Metro is valuing savings over customers. If they choose to close the blue line for nearly a year, we won’t be seeing a major push to finish the work with round the clock maintenance. We’ll see daytime work with a standard/minimal crew working daytime hours. It really is a significant change in approach to anything that we’ve ever seen. And i really think that they are devaluing customers. It’s like they think that they are maintaining a public attraction and not a public service. The only hope is that the result is a faster and more reliable Blue Line. Also, won't the Gold Line have to be shut down in order to complete the Connector? Pretty sure we'll have the Green Line shut down in 2018, Blue Line in 2019 and the Gold Line in 2020. That hurts even though they will only be shut down for part of the year. |
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Post by metrocenter on Feb 20, 2018 13:04:04 GMT -8
Metro is saying they are going to shut down half of the Blue Line at a time. First, the southern half will be shut down (replaced by buses). Then second, the northern half will be shut down (replaced by buses).
But they are not very clear in terms of how long these shutdowns will take. Will they be six weeks each? Or six months each? It makes a big difference.
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Post by masonite on Feb 20, 2018 13:21:03 GMT -8
Metro is saying they are going to shut down half of the Blue Line at a time. First, the southern half will be shut down (replaced by buses). Then second, the northern half will be shut down (replaced by buses). But they are not very clear in terms of how long these shutdowns will take. Will they be six weeks each? Or six months each? It makes a big difference. 4 months each for a total of 8 months. |
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Post by bluelineshawn on Feb 24, 2018 11:02:03 GMT -8
Metro is saying they are going to shut down half of the Blue Line at a time. First, the southern half will be shut down (replaced by buses). Then second, the northern half will be shut down (replaced by buses). But they are not very clear in terms of how long these shutdowns will take. Will they be six weeks each? Or six months each? It makes a big difference. 4 months each for a total of 8 months. I guess that we all should think twice about moving to a TOD and going car free. Because if the current way of doing business persists, this will happen everywhere at some point. So far it’s just been the green line and potentially the blue line, but this will happen everywhere. Gold line tie-in is next (and that one can’t be helped really) followed by the purple line tie-in. Then random maintenance and improvements everywhere with lines being shut for months at a time. This board needs to get a clue. This is unacceptable if they want us to be able to rely on public transportation as a serious alternative to cars. |
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Post by numble on Feb 24, 2018 19:52:43 GMT -8
4 months each for a total of 8 months. I guess that we all should think twice about moving to a TOD and going car free. Because if the current way of doing business persists, this will happen everywhere at some point. So far it’s just been the green line and potentially the blue line, but this will happen everywhere. Gold line tie-in is next (and that one can’t be helped really) followed by the purple line tie-in. Then random maintenance and improvements everywhere with lines being shut for months at a time. This board needs to get a clue. This is unacceptable if they want us to be able to rely on public transportation as a serious alternative to cars. They opened the Gold Line extensions and Expo extensions without shutting down any service for tie-in work, right? It isn’t necessarily true that extensions will result in a long shut down for part of the line. |
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Post by bluelineshawn on Feb 24, 2018 21:34:28 GMT -8
I guess that we all should think twice about moving to a TOD and going car free. Because if the current way of doing business persists, this will happen everywhere at some point. So far it’s just been the green line and potentially the blue line, but this will happen everywhere. Gold line tie-in is next (and that one can’t be helped really) followed by the purple line tie-in. Then random maintenance and improvements everywhere with lines being shut for months at a time. This board needs to get a clue. This is unacceptable if they want us to be able to rely on public transportation as a serious alternative to cars. They opened the Gold Line extensions and Expo extensions without shutting down any service for tie-in work, right? It isn’t necessarily true that extensions will result in a long shut down for part of the line. Well the gold line is going from being an above ground station to an underground one in little Tokyo. I don’t see how tha tie-in can be done over weekends. But my general point is that metro is changing the way that it does business. They are choosing to shut down lines for construction to save money at passenger expense. |
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Post by masonite on Feb 24, 2018 23:33:00 GMT -8
They opened the Gold Line extensions and Expo extensions without shutting down any service for tie-in work, right? It isn’t necessarily true that extensions will result in a long shut down for part of the line. Well the gold line is going from being an above ground station to an underground one in little Tokyo. I don’t see how tha tie-in can be done over weekends. But my general point is that metro is changing the way that it does business. They are choosing to shut down lines for construction to save money at passenger expense. Any time you interline a line like the Crenshaw/Green Line or change new stations like the Gold Line with the Connector, I think you are going to have major closures to accommodate this. On extending lines, the closures should be very minimal (I remember a couple of weekends for Expo for example). I'm pretty sure we are going to have a major shutdown of the Gold Line in 2020. For the Blue Line, I am hoping it is really a function of letting maintenance go a little too long without being addressed over the last 25 years and also at the same time improve performance on a line that was kinda built on the cheap as there was tremendous pressure at the time to get that first line quickly built. I am skeptical that they can go from 58 minutes to 48 minutes on the timing, but I will withhold judgement for a while. I'm not sure we'll see shutdowns on future lines just for maintenance. For the Red/Purple Lines we have had a near shutdown Mon. thru Thurs evenings after 9:00 for years. I really hope they get critical maintenance done during these times and also that Metro has learned from mistakes they have made and that other transit agencies like Washington and New York have made as well. |
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Post by bzzzt on Feb 25, 2018 11:23:21 GMT -8
They opened the Gold Line extensions and Expo extensions without shutting down any service for tie-in work, right? It isn’t necessarily true that extensions will result in a long shut down for part of the line. Well the gold line is going from being an above ground station to an underground one in little Tokyo. I don’t see how tha tie-in can be done over weekends. But my general point is that metro is changing the way that it does business. They are choosing to shut down lines for construction to save money at passenger expense. When they shut the line down, they can get at least two full shifts a day, 6-7 days a week (6am-3pm, 3pm-12am). That's a lot of work that can be done. I assume they have that much work to do. If they work overnight, they'll be lucky to get half a shift a night, and can't do anything that isn't done by the next morning - those are two big limitations. Single-tracking limits capacity and still impacts work on switches, signaling, and power. But, is there any better way to do the work? Can Metro match the Japanese conversion of a surface rail to subway overnight? I'd like to hear what extraordinary steps that Metro will be doing to minimize our downtime. Will they be working two full shifts 7 days a week, on multiple tasks? |
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Post by numble on Feb 26, 2018 2:04:40 GMT -8
They opened the Gold Line extensions and Expo extensions without shutting down any service for tie-in work, right? It isn’t necessarily true that extensions will result in a long shut down for part of the line. Well the gold line is going from being an above ground station to an underground one in little Tokyo. I don’t see how tha tie-in can be done over weekends. But my general point is that metro is changing the way that it does business. They are choosing to shut down lines for construction to save money at passenger expense. Well the gold line is going from being an above ground station to an underground one in little Tokyo. I don’t see how tha tie-in can be done over weekends. But my general point is that metro is changing the way that it does business. They are choosing to shut down lines for construction to save money at passenger expense. Any time you interline a line like the Crenshaw/Green Line or change new stations like the Gold Line with the Connector, I think you are going to have major closures to accommodate this. On extending lines, the closures should be very minimal (I remember a couple of weekends for Expo for example). I'm pretty sure we are going to have a major shutdown of the Gold Line in 2020. For the Blue Line, I am hoping it is really a function of letting maintenance go a little too long without being addressed over the last 25 years and also at the same time improve performance on a line that was kinda built on the cheap as there was tremendous pressure at the time to get that first line quickly built. I am skeptical that they can go from 58 minutes to 48 minutes on the timing, but I will withhold judgement for a while. I'm not sure we'll see shutdowns on future lines just for maintenance. For the Red/Purple Lines we have had a near shutdown Mon. thru Thurs evenings after 9:00 for years. I really hope they get critical maintenance done during these times and also that Metro has learned from mistakes they have made and that other transit agencies like Washington and New York have made as well. They already shut down the Little Tokyo station for 3 months in 2016 for the Regional Connector and the Gold Line currently uses temporary shoo-fly tracks while the original tracks enter into the subway tunnel: thesource.metro.net/2016/01/05/three-month-closure-of-little-tokyoarts-district-station-begins-9-p-m-friday/thesource.metro.net/2016/03/09/regional-connector-little-tokyo-update-on-track-to-start-testing-of-shoofly-track/Are we still pretty sure that there will be another major shutdown of the Gold Line in 2020 to get the train off of the temporary tracks and onto the original tracks? Feels like they should have it mostly handled due to the 2016 shutdown. |
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Post by masonite on Feb 26, 2018 10:18:19 GMT -8
Well the gold line is going from being an above ground station to an underground one in little Tokyo. I don’t see how tha tie-in can be done over weekends. But my general point is that metro is changing the way that it does business. They are choosing to shut down lines for construction to save money at passenger expense. Any time you interline a line like the Crenshaw/Green Line or change new stations like the Gold Line with the Connector, I think you are going to have major closures to accommodate this. On extending lines, the closures should be very minimal (I remember a couple of weekends for Expo for example). I'm pretty sure we are going to have a major shutdown of the Gold Line in 2020. For the Blue Line, I am hoping it is really a function of letting maintenance go a little too long without being addressed over the last 25 years and also at the same time improve performance on a line that was kinda built on the cheap as there was tremendous pressure at the time to get that first line quickly built. I am skeptical that they can go from 58 minutes to 48 minutes on the timing, but I will withhold judgement for a while. I'm not sure we'll see shutdowns on future lines just for maintenance. For the Red/Purple Lines we have had a near shutdown Mon. thru Thurs evenings after 9:00 for years. I really hope they get critical maintenance done during these times and also that Metro has learned from mistakes they have made and that other transit agencies like Washington and New York have made as well. They already shut down the Little Tokyo station for 3 months in 2016 for the Regional Connector and the Gold Line currently uses temporary shoo-fly tracks while the original tracks enter into the subway tunnel: thesource.metro.net/2016/01/05/three-month-closure-of-little-tokyoarts-district-station-begins-9-p-m-friday/thesource.metro.net/2016/03/09/regional-connector-little-tokyo-update-on-track-to-start-testing-of-shoofly-track/Are we still pretty sure that there will be another major shutdown of the Gold Line in 2020 to get the train off of the temporary tracks and onto the original tracks? Feels like they should have it mostly handled due to the 2016 shutdown. You are right. I had forgotten about that as I don't ride that section. My guess is that they will still have to have a shutdown, but probably for not as long. |
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Post by metrocenter on Feb 26, 2018 12:20:04 GMT -8
You are right. I had forgotten about that as I don't ride that section. My guess is that they will still have to have a shutdown, but probably for not as long. I would actually expect the tie-in at Little Tokyo to take a substantial amount of time. As in, several months. Not so much for the Eastside branch (whose tie-in is straightforward), but for the northbound Azusa branch.
Per the FEIR, the new northbound track will remain underground until past Temple Street before rising to grade and then above-grade. This means that Metro will need to replace the existing rail bridge between Temple and Ducommon with a new bridge which starts farther north (and which rises at a nearly 6% grade). And, the construction of the trench from First Street up to Temple and beyond will surely require removal of the existing tracks and maybe even the existing platform.
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Post by metrocenter on Feb 27, 2018 17:26:27 GMT -8
From Skanska's 2012 outline of the project (quite old at this point, but still in effect), we can get an idea for how the project will be completed at 1st/Alameda: So in summary: - Opening 1: service opens from the south (Blue+Expo Lines) up to 1st/Alameda, the existing Gold Line is closed at 1st/Alameda, and bus bridges are established.
- Opening 2: service opens to the Eastside branch.
- Opening 3: service opens to northern branch.
Between Opening 1 and Opening 3, they will be demolishing nearly all of the built ROW along Alameda, and digging the new trench, building the new bridge, and installing the new track corridor. |
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Post by exporider on Mar 1, 2018 11:17:33 GMT -8
Very interesting and somewhat confusing. Has anybody asked Skanska for the "detailed phase opening" that "is in development"?
It looks like the time gap between Opening 1 and Opening 2 will be relatively quick (a few weeks?) so why do they bother with Opening 1? By the time the operators work out the bugs (which always occur) for that operating plan, they will be transitioning to Opening 2.
I imagine that the operations with Opening 2 will be the full East-West Line from Santa Monica to Atlantic, and the Blue Line operating from Long Beach to 1st/Alameda. How will these Blue Line trains turn around at 1st/Alameda while the East-West Line is fully operational?
Details please!
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Post by fissure on Mar 2, 2018 10:19:22 GMT -8
That pocket track they decided not to build north of 7th street would sure come in useful for turning Blue Line trains around during the partial opening, wouldn't it? They might try to turn them around at 7th anyway, since it has lots of crossovers.
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Post by metrocenter on Mar 5, 2018 12:34:10 GMT -8
Very interesting and somewhat confusing. Has anybody asked Skanska for the "detailed phase opening" that "is in development"? It looks like the time gap between Opening 1 and Opening 2 will be relatively quick (a few weeks?) so why do they bother with Opening 1? By the time the operators work out the bugs (which always occur) for that operating plan, they will be transitioning to Opening 2. I imagine that the operations with Opening 2 will be the full East-West Line from Santa Monica to Atlantic, and the Blue Line operating from Long Beach to 1st/Alameda. How will these Blue Line trains turn around at 1st/Alameda while the East-West Line is fully operational? Details please!
All good questions. Unfortunately I wasn't able to find much public information beyond what I posted. The phased opening plan I described is basically what Metro provided to Skanska as their expectation in 2012 for how the project would move from construction into revenue service.
I will be at the next Regional Connector community meeting and will ask about the phased opening. However, I wouldn't hold my breath: the people at those meetings aren't always the best at providing useful answers to questions.
I agree that Opening 2 (to the East Side branch) should be fairly easy. It's Opening 3 (to the northern branch) which will take awhile, due to all the demolition and construction required. |
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Post by culvercitylocke on Mar 6, 2018 10:12:51 GMT -8
It’s interesting, phase one is a huge change in service followed by another huge change in service.
I’d suggest they have only two phases:
Phase A: tie in to gold line east side is completed, continual service on the east/west line is now operational from Atlantic to Santa Monica.
the gold line terminates at union station and the blue line remains terminated at 7th metro.
Construction to build all the new crap to tie into union station begins
Phase B: the final tie in is completed, and continual north/south service begins operating from Long Beach to Azusa
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Post by exporider on Mar 7, 2018 9:55:52 GMT -8
CCL: Once again, I can't see how that operating plan would work. Peak service on the east-west line would operate with 6-minute headways, with EB service at 7th/Metro on Platform 1, and WB service on Platform 2. How can they possibly fit a Blue Line train arriving, unloading, loading and departing within such a short window?
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Post by culvercitylocke on Mar 7, 2018 12:34:06 GMT -8
I assumed it would operate at the same current headways until phase b opened
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Post by metrocenter on Mar 8, 2018 7:30:38 GMT -8
I assumed it would operate at the same current headways until phase b opened I think the big issue is that, while 7th/Metro has crossovers and (for now) tail tracks, Little Tokyo (after Opening 1) will not. So I do not know how theyre going to quickly reverse trains during peak periods. (There will be a crossover just east of 2nd/Broadway station. Not sure if that is too far from Little Tokyo for efficient turnarounds.) So after Opening 2, they would run half the trains full-duplex to the Eastside (east on one track, west on the other), with the other half of the trains doing a turnaround, which means going "the wrong way" between 2nd/Broadway and Little Tokyo. That sounds unworkable to me. Who knows. I guess we'll find out eventually. |
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Post by bzcat on Mar 8, 2018 17:01:22 GMT -8
A pocket track somewhere in Downtown sure would be useful for turning those Blue line trains around...
A work around may look like this after opening 2:
Little Tokyo Station
Platform 1 (3 min headway but only 1 revenue service every 6 min)
- East bound Expo (Gold) every 6 minutes
- East bound Blue every 6 minutes departs empty as non-revenue train to East side, turn back at Atlantic
Platform 2 (3 min revenue service headway)
- West bound Expo (Gold) every 6 minutes
- West bound Blue every 6 minutes arrive empty as non-revenue train from East side
A lot of wasted employee hours running empty trains but it may have to be this way because I agree that there is no logical solution for turning the Blue line trains around within Downtown.
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Post by exporider on Mar 8, 2018 19:56:43 GMT -8
A pocket track somewhere in Downtown sure would be useful for turning those Blue line trains around... A work around may look like this after opening 2: Little Tokyo Station Platform 1 (3 min headway but only 1 revenue service every 6 min) - East bound Expo (Gold) every 6 minutes - East bound Blue every 6 minutes departs empty as non-revenue train to East side, turn back at Atlantic Platform 2 (3 min revenue service headway) - West bound Expo (Gold) every 6 minutes - West bound Blue every 6 minutes arrive empty as non-revenue train from East side A lot of wasted employee hours running empty trains but it may have to be this way because I agree that there is no logical solution for turning the Blue line trains around within Downtown. Yes, very wasteful. Not just the extra manpower, but it would also require an extra 12 trains - or 36 vehicles - to operate. Good luck finding those. |
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Post by fissure on Mar 11, 2018 12:55:55 GMT -8
I don't think Metro sticks to schedules well enough to do it, but it seems like it would be possible to turn 10 tph at 7th Street if the northbound train pulls in around the same time as the westbound train: - new driver gets on at Platform 1
- old driver pulls past the crossover and turns off train
- new driver turns on train, pulls through crossover and opens doors at Platform 2
That shouldn't take more than a few minutes, though I don't know enough about signal systems to know if pulling forward past the crossover on track 2 would allow the eastbound train to pull into the station. |
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Post by exporider on Mar 12, 2018 8:49:01 GMT -8
I don't think Metro sticks to schedules well enough to do it, but it seems like it would be possible to turn 10 tph at 7th Street if the northbound train pulls in around the same time as the westbound train: - new driver gets on at Platform 1
- old driver pulls past the crossover and turns off train
- new driver turns on train, pulls through crossover and opens doors at Platform 2
That shouldn't take more than a few minutes, though I don't know enough about signal systems to know if pulling forward past the crossover on track 2 would allow the eastbound train to pull into the station. That plan might work on a fully GS line, but with the delays along Flower Street, for both Blue and Expo lines, there's no way to maintain schedules, so the peak period operating plan for Opening 2 is doomed without an independent turnaround. |
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