Post by bennyp81 on Jun 21, 2005 10:35:36 GMT -8
Marty C.
User ID: 0352454 Jul 22nd, 2001 5:39 PM
Now is the time to act:
Expo is on track to be built, East Side is on its way, Pasadena is just a couple of years away and Phase II is being actively discussed.
Extending the Red Line is even mentioned in public. Who would have thought?
With all the oppostion from government agencies and out-of-touch politicians using past failures of their agencies to build rail systems cost-effectively to obfuscate the fact that the rail systems themselves are roaring successes.
We, the silent, transit-dependent and/or enthusiast has forced these modest, disconnected successes through. Now what?
Here is my vision: it is high time to take the great success of Friends 4 Expo and begin to build a sensible altenative to the one-note Bus Riders Union.
An organization - a "Union" - of all proponents of a multi-modal transportation system anchored by fast, cost-effecient light and heavy rail systems and Rapid Bus express routes.
In my vision, these system "anchors" would support the fast transit of passengers to communities, communities which are supported by semi-local (MetroBus) and local (DASH) transit modes to get them to the "last mile" or closer of their final destination.
In effect, to use the model of the Internet and computer networks to speed riders to their appointed destination in the fastest possible way.
This new "Union" would look to support the Pasadena model of "design/build" to promote rapid creation of the system anchors.
If the MTA balks, the new Union would push for an extra-authority like Pasadena's to build and deliver the system anchors to the MTA for operation.
Goals:
1. Build Expo to the Sea: Build out Expo to Santa Monica. Begin Expo Immediately. The money is there at state and federal levels. L.A. needs to get more saavy at getting its share.
2. Red Line to Westwood: The Red Line should be completed to terminate where Expo Line reaches Santa Monica Blvd. This would allow riders to choose the corridor they need plus allow very rapid access to/from downtown and Santa Monica.
3. No Bus Rapid Transit: Everywhere BRT is proposed, I have seen evidence that LRT would be the better alternative. BRT on Wishire should be opposed in favor of extending the Subway.
If Rapid Bus cannot handle the ridership of Wilshire, BRT will only make traffic worse.
4. Rapid Bus Expansion Immediately: No waiting for LRT and Subways. Use Rapid Bus on the routes until the fixed systems are built. Rapid Bus also will work on the many corridors suggested by MTA.
Rapid Bus should Connect to a majority of LRT and Subway stations to run perpendicular routes to the rail systems. This will create rapid feeders to/from LRT and subways.
5. Oppose LRT Down Freeways Medians: Freeways are for cars. Cars do not ride trains. People do.
6. Green Line to LAX and South Bay: LAX is in every LAX expansion Plan. South Bay should also be required.
7. Return of the Downtown Railroads: Return trolley service to Downtown L.A. as part of the revival movement. Also support closing of Broadway to automobile traffic.
8. Preferred Right-of-way Status to Transit: If the choice is cars or rail, rail gets to go first. Rail should have traffic signal priority on steet grade runs, just like Rapid Bus.
Trains should not have to wait at red signals. The point of rapid transit is to provide a priority mode of transporation to get people out of their cars.
9. Public Elections for Transit Officials: No more appointments to a board that is effectively the Mayor of L.A.'s collection of yesmen. We need to have the ability to directly change the pessimistic voice to the MTA!
10. MOST IMPORTANT - 24 Hour Services on ALL Sytem Anchors: The ONLY way to get people to opt out of automobiles is to give them a complete replacement to their cars.
Immediately expand the Red, Blue and Green lines and Rapid Bus to 24/7/365 service. This would encourage riders to use the system to reach jobs on all shifts, remove drunks from the roads, and begin to build a system that can work for the complete transit user.
This concept is to provide a starting point of discussion. What do you think? Am I dreaming futively of a future not possible, or am I dreaming of the true future of L.A. Transit?
OK, now. Let's discuss....
Chris Ledermuller
User ID: 1244314 Jul 23rd, 2001 1:06 AM
Marty, ever hear of Southern California Transit Advocates? The alternative is out there.
Another group, similar to SoCaTA, would result in your group and SoCaTA bickering, or agreeing so much that it's basically two groups with one brain.
Roman
User ID: 0227464 Jul 26th, 2001 3:04 AM
Actually, I agree with Marty. I looked at the SoCaTA website and it doesn't appear that they support rail as strongly as many people do on these boards.
I find it sad that the MTA is wasting millions on a Wilshire busway that nobody wants, instead of taking steps towards extending the Red Line west.
Additional Red Line mileage would almost increase ridership exponentially and would also make the billions already spent on the subway more worth it.
The only way we're ever going to see projects such as a Red Line extension, Crenshaw Blvd. Rail, or Sepulveda pass-LAX Rail is with a more radical group. It would also help to speed up current projects.
I've been reading these message boards for a couple of months now and I love hearing new ideas about what rail projects we could build to make LA a better place.
Sorry to tell you guys this, but almost everything
we talk about here is never going to happen in our lifetimes unless more pressure is added and more support is gathered.
For starters, I suggest moving the Friends4Expo message boards to a more general site, such as Friends4LARail. That way people who lived in other parts of LA would feel more welcome to join in.
Chris Ledermuller
User ID: 1244314 Jul 26th, 2002 4:50 AM
The reason SoCaTA does not support rail as strongly as many people on this board is that the group is pragmatic.
The members are keenly aware of political realities and aren't going to support lines that won't be built.
SoCaTA is not anti-rail, but it doesn't foam at the mouth for every rail proposal.
Ron
User ID: 8903453 Jul 26th, 2001 2:20 PM
The idea suggested by Roman has merit.
However, Friends4Expo has done a fantastic job of researching, supporting, promoting and now hoping to expedite the Expo Light Rail Line.
They have had their hands full getting this project approved and now seem to wish to put political pressure and find ways to more quickly fund that project.
At this point, this very effective group of people would likely to have to spread themselves very thin to add the much more broad spectrum of a potential Friends4LARail at this point.
However, this is a great idea for starting another potential similar group or message-board at another location or website.
Roman, could you possibly start or sponsor such a group?
Daniel Schwartz
User ID: 9286933 Jul 26th, 2001 7:41 PM
This board sustains 21 different topics of discussion about almost every conceivable rail project in greater Los Angeles.
I would hesitate to move the discussion elsewhere and rather simply accept the fact that this is truly "Friends4LARail."
Jason Saunders
User ID: 0408214 Jul 27th, 2001 12:20 PM
Hey all,
Well as many of you know I built the www.smarttransit.org site. But I haven't been keeping it up the last couple of months. I'm a full time student and until recently was also working full time.
I'm always down to publish articles that favor rail, bicyle, walking or new urbanist idea's in a positive light.
So if any of you out there have composed something or would like to send it my way. Or if any of you there would like to use this site or a portion thereof as a tool for a greater los angeles pro rail advocacy I would love to talk to you about it.
Unfortunetly, I don't always have the time to be on top of it. I've been promising Bart an update for three months now.
Jason Saunders
stationmaster@smarttransit.org
Mark Strickert
User ID: 2567614 Aug 20th, 2001 2:44 PM
Speaking for myself, and not as a SoCaTA member or a SoCaTA elected board official (how's THAT for pragmatic, ha), the Southern California Transit Advocates has to be concerned with ALL forms of public transportation, not just rail.
You will find that most members believe very strongly in rail, and have been active in the Friends 4 Expo, Centerline and other campaigns.
Please do not confuse SoCaTA with the emphatic (albeit terribly misguided) Bus Riders Union.
Ken Alpern
User ID: 0923684 Oct 27th [2002] 11:49 PM
The organization already exists...it's called the Transit Coalition, and it has important groups called Friends of the Green Line and Friends For the Red Line--and it runs this discussion board...
Marty
User ID: 0081374 Oct 28th 12:05 AM
By the way - the "Marty C" that posted that 1st message is not me.
Chris Paley
User ID: 7803273 Oct 31st 12:36 AM
Well, here's one of the keys to the BRU's "success." They're out there. They lie to people, but they're out there making a statement. That's what we need. People who support a *complete* transportation system (bus, rail, etc.) need to GET OUT THERE! Talk to people, listen to their ideas. Be the Anti-BRU...I have an idea for a name...the Association of Metro Bus and Rail Passengers (AMBARP).
Roberto
User ID: 8374593 Oct 31st 3:56 AM
We definitely need the PR. Public sentiment is already on our side ... when they hear about us. Have your attack plans ready when the Gold Line opens ... all eyes (and cameras) will be pointed in that direction next July, and lots of new people will discover Metro Rail for the first time, so that will be a golden opportunity to get new people involved.
Roberto
User ID: 8374593 Oct 31st 4:16 AM
Oh, another thing ... most ordinary citizens don't know what the BRU is either, so be careful not to give them any free publicity. I rarely bring them up, unless somebody else mentions them. If you convince people to be pro-rail, they will not be tempted by the BRU when they discover their anti-rail stance.
Another way to keep people out of the BRU is to promote rail lines in the areas where they live. From my experience, some people are BRU fans only because they don't think they'll ever see rail in their neighborhoods. In some cases, there are pending projects where they live, but they just don't know about it. So again, that means more PR is needed from our side.
And another thing we need to consider ... at this point in time, a very large percentage of the public transit users do not have internet access, nor do they know anything about politics (which is another reason why the BRU can get away with lies ... lots of people have no idea how the politics works, so they just assume that they don't have rail because the "white people in charge" don't want them to have it).
So we need to find other ways to be able to communicate with those people ... snail mail newsletters, 1-800 numbers, local meetings, lots of flyers and brochures ... it's much more expensive, but it's the only way you can reach those people.
These websites have been fantastic in bringing together an enthusistic politically-savvy group of rail advocates, most of whom have cars or could afford one, but instead have decided that public transportation needs to be developed as a viable option. However, if you want to inspire the masses, the hoardes of minority low-wage blue-collar workers you normally see on the Blue Line trains on a daily basis, something else besides a website needs to be implemented. Their numbers are huge, if they can be motivated to show up at meetings and to write letters of support, the effect could turn around the blase attitudes of the politicans in a hurry.
Bart Reed
User ID: 1606604 Nov 5th 1:03 PM
I watched the BRU presentation in Federal Court on Tuesday, Oct. 29, 2002. There were two concerns: bad equipment causing missing trips and lack of capacity.
But the BRU was using data from 2000, 1999, 1998 and 1997. Based upon this old data, Ted Robertson of BRU attempted to make the case that MTA needs to make service adjustments as he proclaims there is lack of capacity.
In the afternoon testimony, MTA showed ridership data over 12 months from July 2001 to June 2002.
It appeared that a lot of the overcrowding was on different lines at different times rather than the same consistant problem over 5 or 6 years.
Plus, most of the new MTA fleet is in place, so service calls are way down.
It is this type of distortion that is going to cause credibility problems at the BRU. But BRU is not interested in current circumstances.
The BRU and the MTA joint working group also can not agree to passenger counting and overloading standards. The BRU likes to make it up as it goes.
The MTA has suggested that the Authority follow industry wide passenger counting practices.
It is now up to the Special Master to decide what is real and what needs to be addressed.
Þ--Þ--Þ
User ID: 0352454 Jul 22nd, 2001 5:39 PM
Now is the time to act:
Expo is on track to be built, East Side is on its way, Pasadena is just a couple of years away and Phase II is being actively discussed.
Extending the Red Line is even mentioned in public. Who would have thought?
With all the oppostion from government agencies and out-of-touch politicians using past failures of their agencies to build rail systems cost-effectively to obfuscate the fact that the rail systems themselves are roaring successes.
We, the silent, transit-dependent and/or enthusiast has forced these modest, disconnected successes through. Now what?
Here is my vision: it is high time to take the great success of Friends 4 Expo and begin to build a sensible altenative to the one-note Bus Riders Union.
An organization - a "Union" - of all proponents of a multi-modal transportation system anchored by fast, cost-effecient light and heavy rail systems and Rapid Bus express routes.
In my vision, these system "anchors" would support the fast transit of passengers to communities, communities which are supported by semi-local (MetroBus) and local (DASH) transit modes to get them to the "last mile" or closer of their final destination.
In effect, to use the model of the Internet and computer networks to speed riders to their appointed destination in the fastest possible way.
This new "Union" would look to support the Pasadena model of "design/build" to promote rapid creation of the system anchors.
If the MTA balks, the new Union would push for an extra-authority like Pasadena's to build and deliver the system anchors to the MTA for operation.
Goals:
1. Build Expo to the Sea: Build out Expo to Santa Monica. Begin Expo Immediately. The money is there at state and federal levels. L.A. needs to get more saavy at getting its share.
2. Red Line to Westwood: The Red Line should be completed to terminate where Expo Line reaches Santa Monica Blvd. This would allow riders to choose the corridor they need plus allow very rapid access to/from downtown and Santa Monica.
3. No Bus Rapid Transit: Everywhere BRT is proposed, I have seen evidence that LRT would be the better alternative. BRT on Wishire should be opposed in favor of extending the Subway.
If Rapid Bus cannot handle the ridership of Wilshire, BRT will only make traffic worse.
4. Rapid Bus Expansion Immediately: No waiting for LRT and Subways. Use Rapid Bus on the routes until the fixed systems are built. Rapid Bus also will work on the many corridors suggested by MTA.
Rapid Bus should Connect to a majority of LRT and Subway stations to run perpendicular routes to the rail systems. This will create rapid feeders to/from LRT and subways.
5. Oppose LRT Down Freeways Medians: Freeways are for cars. Cars do not ride trains. People do.
6. Green Line to LAX and South Bay: LAX is in every LAX expansion Plan. South Bay should also be required.
7. Return of the Downtown Railroads: Return trolley service to Downtown L.A. as part of the revival movement. Also support closing of Broadway to automobile traffic.
8. Preferred Right-of-way Status to Transit: If the choice is cars or rail, rail gets to go first. Rail should have traffic signal priority on steet grade runs, just like Rapid Bus.
Trains should not have to wait at red signals. The point of rapid transit is to provide a priority mode of transporation to get people out of their cars.
9. Public Elections for Transit Officials: No more appointments to a board that is effectively the Mayor of L.A.'s collection of yesmen. We need to have the ability to directly change the pessimistic voice to the MTA!
10. MOST IMPORTANT - 24 Hour Services on ALL Sytem Anchors: The ONLY way to get people to opt out of automobiles is to give them a complete replacement to their cars.
Immediately expand the Red, Blue and Green lines and Rapid Bus to 24/7/365 service. This would encourage riders to use the system to reach jobs on all shifts, remove drunks from the roads, and begin to build a system that can work for the complete transit user.
This concept is to provide a starting point of discussion. What do you think? Am I dreaming futively of a future not possible, or am I dreaming of the true future of L.A. Transit?
OK, now. Let's discuss....
Chris Ledermuller
User ID: 1244314 Jul 23rd, 2001 1:06 AM
Marty, ever hear of Southern California Transit Advocates? The alternative is out there.
Another group, similar to SoCaTA, would result in your group and SoCaTA bickering, or agreeing so much that it's basically two groups with one brain.
Roman
User ID: 0227464 Jul 26th, 2001 3:04 AM
Actually, I agree with Marty. I looked at the SoCaTA website and it doesn't appear that they support rail as strongly as many people do on these boards.
I find it sad that the MTA is wasting millions on a Wilshire busway that nobody wants, instead of taking steps towards extending the Red Line west.
Additional Red Line mileage would almost increase ridership exponentially and would also make the billions already spent on the subway more worth it.
The only way we're ever going to see projects such as a Red Line extension, Crenshaw Blvd. Rail, or Sepulveda pass-LAX Rail is with a more radical group. It would also help to speed up current projects.
I've been reading these message boards for a couple of months now and I love hearing new ideas about what rail projects we could build to make LA a better place.
Sorry to tell you guys this, but almost everything
we talk about here is never going to happen in our lifetimes unless more pressure is added and more support is gathered.
For starters, I suggest moving the Friends4Expo message boards to a more general site, such as Friends4LARail. That way people who lived in other parts of LA would feel more welcome to join in.
Chris Ledermuller
User ID: 1244314 Jul 26th, 2002 4:50 AM
The reason SoCaTA does not support rail as strongly as many people on this board is that the group is pragmatic.
The members are keenly aware of political realities and aren't going to support lines that won't be built.
SoCaTA is not anti-rail, but it doesn't foam at the mouth for every rail proposal.
Ron
User ID: 8903453 Jul 26th, 2001 2:20 PM
The idea suggested by Roman has merit.
However, Friends4Expo has done a fantastic job of researching, supporting, promoting and now hoping to expedite the Expo Light Rail Line.
They have had their hands full getting this project approved and now seem to wish to put political pressure and find ways to more quickly fund that project.
At this point, this very effective group of people would likely to have to spread themselves very thin to add the much more broad spectrum of a potential Friends4LARail at this point.
However, this is a great idea for starting another potential similar group or message-board at another location or website.
Roman, could you possibly start or sponsor such a group?
Daniel Schwartz
User ID: 9286933 Jul 26th, 2001 7:41 PM
This board sustains 21 different topics of discussion about almost every conceivable rail project in greater Los Angeles.
I would hesitate to move the discussion elsewhere and rather simply accept the fact that this is truly "Friends4LARail."
Jason Saunders
User ID: 0408214 Jul 27th, 2001 12:20 PM
Hey all,
Well as many of you know I built the www.smarttransit.org site. But I haven't been keeping it up the last couple of months. I'm a full time student and until recently was also working full time.
I'm always down to publish articles that favor rail, bicyle, walking or new urbanist idea's in a positive light.
So if any of you out there have composed something or would like to send it my way. Or if any of you there would like to use this site or a portion thereof as a tool for a greater los angeles pro rail advocacy I would love to talk to you about it.
Unfortunetly, I don't always have the time to be on top of it. I've been promising Bart an update for three months now.
Jason Saunders
stationmaster@smarttransit.org
Mark Strickert
User ID: 2567614 Aug 20th, 2001 2:44 PM
Speaking for myself, and not as a SoCaTA member or a SoCaTA elected board official (how's THAT for pragmatic, ha), the Southern California Transit Advocates has to be concerned with ALL forms of public transportation, not just rail.
You will find that most members believe very strongly in rail, and have been active in the Friends 4 Expo, Centerline and other campaigns.
Please do not confuse SoCaTA with the emphatic (albeit terribly misguided) Bus Riders Union.
Ken Alpern
User ID: 0923684 Oct 27th [2002] 11:49 PM
Here is my vision: it is high time to take the great success of Friends 4 Expo and begin to build a sensible altenative to the one-note Bus Riders Union.
An organization - a "Union" - of all proponents of a multi-modal transportation system anchored by fast, cost-effecient light and heavy rail systems and Rapid Bus express routes.
An organization - a "Union" - of all proponents of a multi-modal transportation system anchored by fast, cost-effecient light and heavy rail systems and Rapid Bus express routes.
The organization already exists...it's called the Transit Coalition, and it has important groups called Friends of the Green Line and Friends For the Red Line--and it runs this discussion board...
Marty
User ID: 0081374 Oct 28th 12:05 AM
By the way - the "Marty C" that posted that 1st message is not me.
Chris Paley
User ID: 7803273 Oct 31st 12:36 AM
Well, here's one of the keys to the BRU's "success." They're out there. They lie to people, but they're out there making a statement. That's what we need. People who support a *complete* transportation system (bus, rail, etc.) need to GET OUT THERE! Talk to people, listen to their ideas. Be the Anti-BRU...I have an idea for a name...the Association of Metro Bus and Rail Passengers (AMBARP).
Roberto
User ID: 8374593 Oct 31st 3:56 AM
We definitely need the PR. Public sentiment is already on our side ... when they hear about us. Have your attack plans ready when the Gold Line opens ... all eyes (and cameras) will be pointed in that direction next July, and lots of new people will discover Metro Rail for the first time, so that will be a golden opportunity to get new people involved.
Roberto
User ID: 8374593 Oct 31st 4:16 AM
Oh, another thing ... most ordinary citizens don't know what the BRU is either, so be careful not to give them any free publicity. I rarely bring them up, unless somebody else mentions them. If you convince people to be pro-rail, they will not be tempted by the BRU when they discover their anti-rail stance.
Another way to keep people out of the BRU is to promote rail lines in the areas where they live. From my experience, some people are BRU fans only because they don't think they'll ever see rail in their neighborhoods. In some cases, there are pending projects where they live, but they just don't know about it. So again, that means more PR is needed from our side.
And another thing we need to consider ... at this point in time, a very large percentage of the public transit users do not have internet access, nor do they know anything about politics (which is another reason why the BRU can get away with lies ... lots of people have no idea how the politics works, so they just assume that they don't have rail because the "white people in charge" don't want them to have it).
So we need to find other ways to be able to communicate with those people ... snail mail newsletters, 1-800 numbers, local meetings, lots of flyers and brochures ... it's much more expensive, but it's the only way you can reach those people.
These websites have been fantastic in bringing together an enthusistic politically-savvy group of rail advocates, most of whom have cars or could afford one, but instead have decided that public transportation needs to be developed as a viable option. However, if you want to inspire the masses, the hoardes of minority low-wage blue-collar workers you normally see on the Blue Line trains on a daily basis, something else besides a website needs to be implemented. Their numbers are huge, if they can be motivated to show up at meetings and to write letters of support, the effect could turn around the blase attitudes of the politicans in a hurry.
Bart Reed
User ID: 1606604 Nov 5th 1:03 PM
I watched the BRU presentation in Federal Court on Tuesday, Oct. 29, 2002. There were two concerns: bad equipment causing missing trips and lack of capacity.
But the BRU was using data from 2000, 1999, 1998 and 1997. Based upon this old data, Ted Robertson of BRU attempted to make the case that MTA needs to make service adjustments as he proclaims there is lack of capacity.
In the afternoon testimony, MTA showed ridership data over 12 months from July 2001 to June 2002.
It appeared that a lot of the overcrowding was on different lines at different times rather than the same consistant problem over 5 or 6 years.
Plus, most of the new MTA fleet is in place, so service calls are way down.
It is this type of distortion that is going to cause credibility problems at the BRU. But BRU is not interested in current circumstances.
The BRU and the MTA joint working group also can not agree to passenger counting and overloading standards. The BRU likes to make it up as it goes.
The MTA has suggested that the Authority follow industry wide passenger counting practices.
It is now up to the Special Master to decide what is real and what needs to be addressed.
Þ--Þ--Þ