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Post by metrocenter on Aug 31, 2010 19:47:14 GMT -8
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Post by jeisenbe on Aug 31, 2010 22:21:06 GMT -8
This Drafit EIR is not the final word, right? Little Tokyo managed to get an all-underground alignment added to the EIR recently, so I hope West LA and Brentwood residents might be able to push for a station at Barrington or Federal, instead of the poorly-designed VA Hospital station.
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Post by metrocenter on Sept 1, 2010 10:20:08 GMT -8
^^ The DEIR studies a set of alternatives and recommends one of them. The public gets their chance to comment. Then, normally, the Metro Board agrees with this recommendation and chooses this alternative as the Locally Preferred Alternative (LPA). This LPA then gets studied in greater detail in the FEIR.
So no, the DEIR is not technically the final word, since the Metro Board could theoretically reject the recommendation. But in practice, the recommended alternative becomes the final alternative.
With the Regional Connector, the "all-underground" alignment through Little Tokyo was added during the DEIR study. That will probably become the LPA for that project. If it hadn't been studied during the DEIR study, it would be not be possible for it to become the LPA (not without the Metro Board requesting either a new DEIR or a supplemental EIR addendum).
With the Westside Subway, my gut tells me that the DEIR (to be published on Friday) will recommend the station at the VA Hospital. It may leave the exact location as a design option. But I don't expect that a Brentwood station would be added once the DEIR is published.
There is of course a 45-day public comment period following DEIR publication, in which things could change. Should the Metro Board see major pushback on the VA station, they could decide to go a different route.
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Post by jeisenbe on Sept 2, 2010 23:33:46 GMT -8
There is of course a 45-day public comment period following DEIR publication, in which things could change. Should the Metro Board see major pushback on the VA station, they could decide to go a different route. Well, lets get pushing! Perhaps it can be politically described as a VA/Brentwood station at Federal, with a connection to the VA. As long as one of the portals is on the VA land, it should qualify as a VA station for political reasons, and in practice any station will need a shuttle bus for disabled veterans, and a new path and escalators for pedestrians. Getting a station portal West of Federal, or near Barrington, will make this station much more useful in the long-term.
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Post by trackman on Sept 3, 2010 5:49:30 GMT -8
How much funding is available for this project? I heard above, or elsewhere on this board, support for a Crenshaw station, support for more station portal entrances, and support for extending the line even further. Each has additional costs.
Also, the support for an extension to Federal (above) could be the equivalent to Metro's alternative to push for going from UCLA to VA.
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Post by metrocenter on Sept 3, 2010 6:10:57 GMT -8
^^ Around $4 billion from Measure R.
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Post by masonite on Sept 3, 2010 9:50:22 GMT -8
^^ Around $4 billion from Measure R. One thing I never have had answered is that Measure R gives $4.2B in 08 dollars to the Westside Subway, but per the DEIR, they are only counting on $2.7B in Measure R money with another $1.3B from New Starts. So what happens to the other $1.5B? Measure R states it is for this project, so I wouldn't think it would not be easy to change, although I can see many other areas trying to get this money. Ideally, then these funds could be used to build the last section to the Sea or on the Pink Line, but no one ever seems to list this as a possibility? The Westside Subway DEIR is out and shows 3.3 minute rush hour headways. That would be awesome, but combined with the Red Line you would be talking about headways a little over 1.5 minutes in the stations from Vermont east. Also, it appears that they have nailed down a time of 25 minutes from Union Station to Westwood, which really means about 21 minutes or so from Westwood to Downtown (7th Metro). Not sure if that includes a Crenshaw stop, which if deleted would take off about a minute. Ridership on this is going to be absolutely enormous with these figures. Lets hope I don't need a cane by the time this is built.
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Post by Gokhan on Sept 3, 2010 10:21:13 GMT -8
DEIR is now released and the interesting map is Figure S-15 (on Page S-22) of the executive summary: Executive summaryDEIR main linkThere is no staff-recommended locally preferred alternative announced to the public yet. Note that the most cost-effective option of the Westside Subway (Wilshire/VA) has only 50% of the cost-effectiveness of the Downtown Connector (fully underground option), showing how expensive it's to build subways, even in very dense corridors like the Wilshire corridor.
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Post by metrocenter on Sept 3, 2010 11:08:24 GMT -8
Interesting to see that Metro staff essentially punted to the Metro Board, re: the issue of which alternatives to advance to the FEIR.
The alternative with the highest cost-effectiveness (Alt 2) lists only 24,142 new trips. That seems terribly low for a $4 billion subway. I'd love to know why that number is so low.
Then again, the original Red Line project was supposed to have 200,000 riders by year 2000. I guess its a tricky business trying to estimate ridership.
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Post by metrocenter on Sept 3, 2010 11:12:17 GMT -8
Although there is no specific recommendation, the executive summary states what Metro staff has been telling people all along: • The TSM Alternative and Alternatives 1 and 2 are financially feasible.
• Alternatives 3, 4, and 5 are not currently financially feasible. . Implementation of Alternative 1 or Alternative 2 would not preclude a future extension to Santa Monica or a future subway connection to West Hollywood. However, additional local funding would need to be identified.
Thus, Alternatives 1 and 2 are really the only build options, unless the Metro Board decides to "go for broke" and look for more money.
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Post by metrocenter on Sept 3, 2010 13:17:08 GMT -8
I am shocked and disappointed that the DEIR identified the following as base options: - Century City station located on Santa Monica Blvd.
- Westwood/UCLA station located at Lot 39.
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Post by Gokhan on Sept 3, 2010 13:28:01 GMT -8
I am shocked and disappointed that the DEIR identified the following as base options: - Century City station located on Santa Monica Blvd.
- Westwood/UCLA station located at Lot 39.
Not necessarily something to be disappointed at. At the end of the DEIR period, LPA will be selected but all the extra options will still be included in the FEIR phase. The final options will only be selected after the approval of FEIR.
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Post by metrocenter on Sept 3, 2010 13:51:41 GMT -8
I know how it works, but the staff recommendation from the DEIR carries some weight. Public comment will be key to getting these stations put in the right places.
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Post by Gokhan on Sept 3, 2010 13:58:52 GMT -8
I know how it works, and realize that the Metro Board has the ultimate say. But the staff recommendation from the DEIR carries some weight. Public comment will be key to getting this stations put in the right places. The base option is not the staff recommendation. It's like a base model for a car. Then you can go to higher models (LE, S, XLE, etc.) along with bunch of other options (navigation, moonroof, etc.) These options do not necessarily make the car better but certainly more expensive. The situation with the rail project is very similar. Therefore, the options are to be picked up at a later time and at that point it's to be decided which one is worth the cost and tradeoffs. (LPA is a different story. As far as the car analogy goes, it's more like choosing between different models of a make rather than different lines in the same model.) But you are absolutely right that the public comments are very important, to say the least.
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Post by metrocenter on Sept 3, 2010 14:24:32 GMT -8
You're right, the base option is not a recommendation. I dug a bit deeper into the docs. It is a baseline option, i.e., the option from which to compare the other options, in terms of cost, ridership, etc.
BTW, the base option is not always the cheapest. For instance, the base for Crenshaw station (build) is more expensive than the option (no build).
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Post by Gokhan on Sept 3, 2010 14:59:22 GMT -8
It would also be nice if the base option was already agreeable to many. For example I am already happy with what they have for the Expo Line Phase 2 under base options.
But the Westside Subway is more complicated because it doesn't have a predefined right-of-way like Expo Phase 2. Hopefully the most optimal options will be picked up and what's the base option and what's not will not influence this outcome.
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Post by Gokhan on Sept 17, 2010 19:58:20 GMT -8
Metro Red/Purple Line trains to operate on reduced speeds due to equipment issuesEffective immediately, all Metro Red and Purple Line trains traveling from Union Station to North Hollywood and Union Station to Wilshire/Western will operate on a 25 mile-per-hour speed limit due to unforeseen equipment issues. Patrons using the Metro Purple Line to Wilshire/Western can expect delays of 10 to 12 minutes. Patrons using the Metro Red Line to North Hollywood can expect service delays of 15 to 20 minutes until further notice. Metro rail maintenance personnel are working to resolve the issue as soon as possible. Metro apologizes for any inconvenience they may have to our riders. For updates on service alerts, patrons can visit Metro’s web site at www.metro.net. -- Gayle Anderson
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Post by tonyw79sfv on Sept 17, 2010 20:11:05 GMT -8
Metro Red/Purple Line trains to operate on reduced speeds due to equipment issuesEffective immediately, all Metro Red and Purple Line trains traveling from Union Station to North Hollywood and Union Station to Wilshire/Western will operate on a 25 mile-per-hour speed limit due to unforeseen equipment issues. Patrons using the Metro Purple Line to Wilshire/Western can expect delays of 10 to 12 minutes. Patrons using the Metro Red Line to North Hollywood can expect service delays of 15 to 20 minutes until further notice. Metro rail maintenance personnel are working to resolve the issue as soon as possible. Metro apologizes for any inconvenience they may have to our riders. For updates on service alerts, patrons can visit Metro’s web site at www.metro.net. -- Gayle Anderson I got caught in that mess after work getting from Vermont/Sunset to NoHo. My usual train arrived 6 minutes late, was extremely packed, and took 25 minutes to get to NoHo in what would usually take 14 minutes. I did get a heads-up prior to leaving work when I checked metro.net though, so it was no surprise for me. There is another bulletin from Metro stating that throughout the weekend, Red/Purple Lines will run every 20 minutes instead of the 12 minute mid-day headways.
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Post by tonyw79sfv on Sept 18, 2010 6:50:05 GMT -8
Metro Red/Purple Line trains to operate on reduced speeds due to equipment issuesEffective immediately, all Metro Red and Purple Line trains traveling from Union Station to North Hollywood and Union Station to Wilshire/Western will operate on a 25 mile-per-hour speed limit due to unforeseen equipment issues. Patrons using the Metro Purple Line to Wilshire/Western can expect delays of 10 to 12 minutes. Patrons using the Metro Red Line to North Hollywood can expect service delays of 15 to 20 minutes until further notice. Metro rail maintenance personnel are working to resolve the issue as soon as possible. Metro apologizes for any inconvenience they may have to our riders. For updates on service alerts, patrons can visit Metro’s web site at www.metro.net. -- Gayle Anderson I got caught in that mess after work getting from Vermont/Sunset to NoHo. My usual train arrived 6 minutes late, was extremely packed, and took 25 minutes to get to NoHo in what would usually take 14 minutes. I did get a heads-up prior to leaving work when I checked metro.net though, so it was no surprise for me. There is another bulletin from Metro stating that throughout the weekend, Red/Purple Lines will run every 20 minutes instead of the 12 minute mid-day headways. Metro completed their inspection, trains resume normal operating schedule.
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Post by jeisenbe on Sept 18, 2010 8:28:51 GMT -8
Metro completed their inspection, trains resume normal operating schedule. What was the initial concern? All I've found is this: "Red & Purple Lines back to regular schedule & normal speeds. Speed restriction has been lifted. Disregard earlier every 20min schedule notice"
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Post by Gokhan on Sept 18, 2010 10:04:13 GMT -8
I would guess problems with automatic train protection or train communications. The low speed would avoid a collision by allowing the driver to manually stop the train in case another train suddenly appears out of nowhere.
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Post by tonyw79sfv on Sept 18, 2010 11:20:02 GMT -8
I would guess problems with automatic train protection or train communications. The low speed would avoid a collision by allowing the driver to manually stop the train in case another train suddenly appears out of nowhere. According to the LA Times, they discovered a problem with a wheel in one of their cars which then prompted the slow down; most likely to reduce stress on the rail cars, thinking the other cars would have the same issue.
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Post by Gokhan on Sept 18, 2010 11:45:03 GMT -8
I would guess problems with automatic train protection or train communications. The low speed would avoid a collision by allowing the driver to manually stop the train in case another train suddenly appears out of nowhere. According to the LA Times, they discovered a problem with a wheel in one of their cars which then prompted the slow down; most likely to reduce stress on the rail cars, thinking the other cars would have the same issue. Wow, they were really overcautious then. One wheel in one car out of many wheels and cars breaks down and they slow the entire line for a day. Interesting.
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Post by metrocenter on Sept 20, 2010 7:25:13 GMT -8
Another article from the LA Times about the Westside Subway Extension. Here's the part that bugged me: Despite growing support for the project as one way to alleviate congestion, plenty of disagreement remains. One issue is whether tunneling might reduce property values by undermining houses or causing long-term rumbling. Perhaps the biggest bone of contention that has emerged recently is the routing through Century City.
The city of Beverly Hills strongly advocates running the line under Santa Monica Boulevard with a station at Avenue of the Stars, as Metro had long envisioned. But under an alternative that the transit agency unveiled a few months ago, the station would be moved a block south to the corner of Constellation Boulevard and Avenue of the Stars, in the middle of Century City. The shift would require tunneling under private residences and schools, including Beverly Hills High. This writer is wrong when he states that Metro "unveiled" the Constellation option for the Century City station "a few months ago". Metro has been talking about that option since at least 2008, during the Alternatives Analysis study (the report came out in January 2009). Also, the writer fails to mention that the tunnel is extremely deep (up to 100 feet deep) and that vibrations will not reach the surface. There are dozens of properties in L.A. that already have a subway under them, and those people have not reported any vibrations.
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Post by azndevil97 on Sept 20, 2010 19:43:02 GMT -8
Hi everyone, Just got back from the Metro open house down the street from me. This was the first meeting I went to, and I have to say it was pretty good. It seems most are for the subway, and I believe most comments were pretty positive. However, I wonder how the meetings will be as they progress further west into BH and Santa Monica. Now, a character by the name of J Walsh. Interesting guy. Really anti-subway, with his notion that only poor minorities are currently taking the red line. Anyone ever encounter this guy? I almost felt embarrassed for him, especially when another Hollywood resident mentioned that he's seen him plenty of times at the Hollywood/Highland station, LOL. I'm all for Alternative 5 but know it's beyond funding, but it seems to be one of the most popular . Oh, and someone from Friends for Expo came by and put in his 2 minutes, but I can't recall his name and when I went looking for him, couldn't find him. I would have liked to have met someone from the organization. Here's to keeping my fingers crossed that this goes through without a hitch!
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Post by jdrcrasher on Sept 20, 2010 20:40:55 GMT -8
azndevil97, Alternative#5 can still happen, especially if construction bids for Measure R's projects come under projection.
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Post by masonite on Sept 20, 2010 20:45:13 GMT -8
Hi everyone, Just got back from the Metro open house down the street from me. This was the first meeting I went to, and I have to say it was pretty good. It seems most are for the subway, and I believe most comments were pretty positive. However, I wonder how the meetings will be as they progress further west into BH and Santa Monica. Now, a character by the name of J Walsh. Interesting guy. Really anti-subway, with his notion that only poor minorities are currently taking the red line. Anyone ever encounter this guy? I almost felt embarrassed for him, especially when another Hollywood resident mentioned that he's seen him plenty of times at the Hollywood/Highland station, LOL. I'm all for Alternative 5 but know it's beyond funding, but it seems to be one of the most popular . Oh, and someone from Friends for Expo came by and put in his 2 minutes, but I can't recall his name and when I went looking for him, couldn't find him. I would have liked to have met someone from the organization. Here's to keeping my fingers crossed that this goes through without a hitch! You came across John Walsh, who is quite the character to put it mildly. The only time I saw him at a meeting, he really took his speaker time to yell and rant. LA Weekly, I believe ran a story on him regarding his anti-subway stance back in the 80s and 90s and he seemed to actually have some influence back then. However, now people see him as pretty much a total nut.
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Post by azndevil97 on Sept 20, 2010 20:47:11 GMT -8
azndevil97, Alternative#5 can still happen, especially if construction bids for Measure R's projects come under projection. I'm sure anything is possible, but the current allocation of 4.2B doesn't even cover alternative #2. At almost double the projected cost of 8.7B, would the construction bid have to be 1/2 that amount???
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Post by azndevil97 on Sept 20, 2010 20:50:40 GMT -8
Calling him a nut job is really putting it mildly . I just thought it was hilarious how everyone around me just kind of sniggered when he got up there. He ranted on about how we're going through the "dinosaur zone". Apparently someone didn't do his homework because there are no dinosaurs in my neighborhood
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Post by metrocenter on Sept 20, 2010 21:23:47 GMT -8
John Walsh is a fixture at Metro Board meetings, as well as these public comment meetings. I've seen him many times. He never has much impact either way. Although to the extent that he harangues the Metro staff and opposes the subway, he actually helps the subway, because after his speech the anti-subway crowd looks like lunatics by association.
Maybe I'll see him at tomorrow night's Westside Subway meeting. BTW also tomorrow is the CA HSR open house, as well as the TTC meeting. --The TTC meeting is on Tuesday, Sept. 28. The DTRC folks scheduled their meeting to conflict with TTC. Yikes!!
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