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Post by hankster on Jun 8, 2008 10:07:17 GMT -8
Read it here : gizmodo.com/5014227/transportation-bill-gives-45-million-to-maglev-project-sets-it-up-for-fail A new transportation bill signed by Bush on Friday would free up $45 million to build the U.S.'s first maglev train. The train will travel between Disneyland and Las Vegas at up to 300 mph and is meant to help ease traffic on the 250+ mile ride on Interstate 15. While I'm all for high-speed trains and efficient public transportation, isn't the Bush administration forgetting something? Maglev trains are hella expensive. Sure, the $45 million is only supposed to pay for “environmental studies” in the first phase of the project, but the government can probably expect to spend a hundred times that amount before this thing is over. Japan's Linimo maglev train, located near Nagoya, cost a cool $380 million to build and it's only 5.5 miles long. China's Shanghai Maglev Train, finished in 2004 in a country where labor's cheap and private land ownership is a pretty new concept, cost $1.3 billion for 19 miles of track—roughly $68.4 million per mile. What will $45 million buy in the States? 10 feet? I love the concept of mass transit and one of my biggest gripes with the U.S. is how they let their train infrastructure shrivel and rot, but the paltry amount dedicated to such a pricey technology makes me wonder if this isn't just another attempt for Bush to greenwash his last few months in office. [Slashdot] P.S. The picture is of the Shanghai Maglev Train, which has been criticized by locals for being showy, wasteful and impractical.
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Post by nickv on Jun 8, 2008 20:43:51 GMT -8
That editorial points out some of the financial 'cons' for a maglev line. Although a maglev train is faster and claims to use less energy, there are a few things to point.
One thing to mention that if the train or tracks break down, can the replacement parts be ordered right away, or do they have to be custom manufactured? Secondly, strong magnetic fields onboard the train or along the platform could be dangerous for people, computer laptop disks and credit/debit cards. (EDIT: I'm researching articles written on the Internet about this) Also, the high speed of some maglev trains translates to more sound due to air displacement, which gets louder as the trains go faster. Barstow and Baker residents may find this unacceptable. Finally (per various sources), as linear motors must fit within or straddle their track over the full length of the train, track design is challenging for anything other than point-to-point services. The route between LA and Vegas has several elevation changes and turns.
For those who are new to this board, The Transit Coalition takes this position on Maglev technology:
The Transit Coalition Position:
The best equipment and technology for use in public transportation is determined after unbiased research and study. We have strong concerns in starting with a technology or type of transportation vehicle and then working backwards to justify a predetermined conclusion. In all cases, other types of transportation need an adequate review, rather than comparing apples to oranges, which is done to justify the conclusions.
We believe in MagLev when used as intended, but not for short haul trips, which is planned in the Los Angeles Region. California High Speed Rail did an extensive study in using both MagLev and Steel wheels-on-steel technology for rail travel between Los Angeles and San Francisco. The proven Steel wheels-on-steel was selected for the project, even though MagLev had a slightly higher overall average speed.
The proposed MagLev system for the Los Angeles region is being designed with public funds. The construction and operations of the system, which is projected not to have any public subsidy for operation, is to be built and run by the private sector. The fare-box revenue is projected to pay off the revenue bonds and to cover the day-to-day operating cost. The stakeholders (the public) will guarantee the success of the system, or pay off the bonds and take the loss, with the investors not taking a risk or loss; just the profits if MagLev is successful.
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I think that if we build a maglev line without first completing unbiased study (CA HSR did do a study and concluded on continuing with steel wheel/rail), I believe that will put SoCal in an embarrassing situation; it's just like one starting a profession without first going to school to see if the job would be right for him/her. I think both the Vegas and Seattle monorail breakdown history taught us some lessons.
Steel wheel/rail technology is already here and chances are whenever there's a breakdown, train/track replacement parts can be bought at your local retailer (well, not really, but they'll be ready for order). From what I know, if certain parts of maglev or its track break down, chances are the replacement parts would have to be custom manufactured/ordered at this time.
I can also see some logical problems too. The CA HSR Line will have a stop in Anaheim. Both CA HSR (public) and the proposed Victorville-Las Vegas DesertXPress HSR Line (private) will run steel wheel on rail high-speed trains...Why not enter into a public/private relationship and bridge that gap using the same technology?
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Post by Tony Fernandez on Jun 9, 2008 8:58:23 GMT -8
Magnetic fields do not harm people; there have been no links that I no of between magnetic fields and health effects. As for electronics, I'm sure they mitigate that.
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Post by nickv on Jun 9, 2008 11:49:00 GMT -8
Similar to the excessive use of cell phones or headphones, I was originally informed that there could be a health or biohazard, but right now, I'm finding conflicting information on the Internet; some claim there's no hazard, but there's some that claim that there are. We also have the situation of the segment through the Cajon Pass where the grade is very steep, thus requiring more magnetic power for Vegas-bound trips. I'll retract my statement on that until I have a chance to research it better.
Still, the better alternative is to connect the proposed CA HSR project and the DesertXPress HSR project with the same technology, not maglev.
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