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Post by militantangeleno on Jun 20, 2008 17:50:41 GMT -8
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Post by tonyw79sfv on Jun 20, 2008 19:56:57 GMT -8
Yeah, I saw that today when going home from work at Sunset/Vermont. The North Hollywood bound came right on the time posted: 16:40. I'm hoping these are real time and not running off a schedule database.
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Post by James Fujita on Jun 21, 2008 11:25:06 GMT -8
nice to know that they finally got those signs going. the next step would be electronic "next station" signs in the trains themselves the sign shows everything you need to know about the next station (I took a picture of the Japanese but it also gives an English translation...) doubles as an advertising board
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Post by Elson on Jun 21, 2008 11:47:22 GMT -8
nice to know that they finally got those signs going. the next step would be electronic "next station" signs in the trains themselves The new Breda cars show the name of the next station. No fancy video displays but it still shows the name of the station.
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Post by James Fujita on Jun 21, 2008 17:07:20 GMT -8
nice to know that they finally got those signs going. the next step would be electronic "next station" signs in the trains themselves The new Breda cars show the name of the next station. No fancy video displays but it still shows the name of the station. that's good to know. I haven't had the chance to ride one of the new Bredas, but I always figure that the more signage you have, the better. there's a lot of ways to do that. you can have a little message board like I've seen on the Passport in Long Beach, or some of the older Ginza Line trains were almost elevator-like. the "map" above the door has indicator lights, and the next station lights up... this only works if the train cars don't leave the Ginza Line, which they never do because it's third-rail. but those video boards blow me away... I've grown more and more tolerant of transit ads over the years, but "transit TV" always seemed like a step too far me... but the Japanese video ads (rather creative, I might add) didn't have any sound on them! so you get the "next station" information you need, and the ads pay for the sign, but amazingly without the noise pollution.
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Post by tonyw79sfv on Jun 21, 2008 18:10:44 GMT -8
Didn't the Siemens on the Green and Gold Lines also show the next station names? Don't forget that our buses have had next stop displays for years =P; the Orange Line uses the same system.
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Post by James Fujita on Jun 21, 2008 19:02:05 GMT -8
Didn't the Siemens on the Green and Gold Lines also show the next station names? Don't forget that our buses have had next stop displays for years =P; the Orange Line uses the same system. heh, I'm not a regular rider on the Gold Line, so I might have forgotten ^_^;;; it's a bit more surprising that the Red Line, which is underground and therefore impossible to look out the window and see where you are, has never had a very good system of identifying the next station down the line. I'm glad that the "Next Train" signs are in place and operational, and I'm glad that there are "Next Station" signs on our buses, but it's still funny that no matter how advanced our Metro gets, somebody is always one step ahead of us.
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Post by Elson on Jun 21, 2008 19:08:50 GMT -8
Didn't the Siemens on the Green and Gold Lines also show the next station names? Don't forget that our buses have had next stop displays for years =P; the Orange Line uses the same system. That's right, but you can only see it if you're towards the middle of the car and can see the inside end of the destination display, which is between the rear door and the car's articulation joint. The Breda Cars have them on the front (above the operator's cab door) and in the "back" (above the entranceway to the articulation joint). I think we have to be patient here. Do understand that the Red Line cars were built in the early '90s, using '80s technology and '70s design specs. I'm sure once the subway gets expanded there will be a second-generation fleet of subway cars with all the modern bells & whistles.
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Post by Elson on Jun 21, 2008 19:11:10 GMT -8
The new Breda cars show the name of the next station. No fancy video displays but it still shows the name of the station. that's good to know. I haven't had the chance to ride one of the new Bredas, but I always figure that the more signage you have, the better. there's a lot of ways to do that. you can have a little message board like I've seen on the Passport in Long Beach, or some of the older Ginza Line trains were almost elevator-like. the "map" above the door has indicator lights, and the next station lights up... this only works if the train cars don't leave the Ginza Line, which they never do because it's third-rail. but those video boards blow me away... I've grown more and more tolerant of transit ads over the years, but "transit TV" always seemed like a step too far me... but the Japanese video ads (rather creative, I might add) didn't have any sound on them! so you get the "next station" information you need, and the ads pay for the sign, but amazingly without the noise pollution. I've been to Hong Kong, where some of the stations have video ads with sound that are projected onto walls! Also, the first time I've seen video screens in a transit vehicle was on a bus n Singapore (early 2001). I don't remember if it had sound or not.
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Post by James Fujita on Jun 21, 2008 19:51:07 GMT -8
but those video boards blow me away... I've grown more and more tolerant of transit ads over the years, but "transit TV" always seemed like a step too far me... but the Japanese video ads (rather creative, I might add) didn't have any sound on them! so you get the "next station" information you need, and the ads pay for the sign, but amazingly without the noise pollution. I've been to Hong Kong, where some of the stations have video ads with sound that are projected onto walls! Also, the first time I've seen video screens in a transit vehicle was on a bus n Singapore (early 2001). I don't remember if it had sound or not. heh. I hope you'll forgive me if I sound like I'm bragging. one of my favorite hobbies is to go to other cities and compare how they do things to the way we do things in Southern California. believe it or not, I think it has helped to make me a better transit advocate. just on my latest Japan trip, I've noticed: 1) Suica is what TAP cards should be like 2) yet another example of commuter rail/ subway cooperation 3) the signage and even the ads are awesome. some of these ideas can be implemented here, some can't. Macy's department store isn't likely to build its own private commuter rail line; but the video screens and high-tech ad technology can be borrowed. of course, by then I expect that Tokyo (and other Asian cities, I'm sure) will have girl robots guiding people on the subway XD
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simon
New Member
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Post by simon on Jun 22, 2008 13:13:40 GMT -8
Here, I posted this in the comments on metroriderla.com, but since I put a little work in, might as well post it here too: Basically, while I agree this is a solid step forward, the design mistakes on the current screens are pretty huge. I'm sure a big reason for this is that they designed the screens before having the actual functionality in place, and hopefully they plan on fixing that, but right now from a design and usability standpoint, they're sub-par. Problems: 1. Terrible focus. What grabs your eye on these screens? The little white train times on the right side of the screen or the giant full color warnings about not standing near the track? You don't get a full color LCD widescreen just to use all the space on messages about not eating food on the trains. 2. The information is presented in a confusing manner. You've got scheduled times not actual times. You've got all trains listed on every screen instead of just the trains for that specific side of the platform. You've got the trains listed in a fixed order instead of showing which train is closer. And you're using white on black even though the whole point of buying LCD screens is the presence of color. Here's what I would do, keeping in mind that I'm an idiot and not a professional designer: Pretty simple, huh? Devote all the screen real-estate to the actual train times. Use a countdown clock (rounded to the nearest minute). Put the safety warnings in a scrollbar at the bottom of the screen. Color code the train listings. And put the listings in chronological order. Now let's take things a step further. In the first post in this thread we've got a picture of what it looks like when a train is leaving. It's a generic graphic that says "This train departs next." Well gee, thanks a lot. Mind telling me which train and where it's going? Accompany these with an audio announcement and suddenly the "is this Wilshire/Western or North Hollywood?" problem is dead forever. It's all really simple stuff, but thanks to the LCD screens, if they just programmed and designed these things properly, they could have something really useful and attractive instead of the current system. And finally, if you'll excuse the bad photoshop, he's roughly what it would look like in person (though I have doubts about how the color and white text would look in the dark lighting down there): I'm sure they're already working on this stuff, but I did email my junk to them anyway in the hopes they'd find it useful.
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Post by Elson on Jun 22, 2008 13:18:54 GMT -8
"Board center" does not apply to our subway since our trains have either 4 or 6 cars, no more. no less. And the majority of passengers ride in the center-most cars anyway. Plus there's a "Non-Rush Hour Boarding Zone" demarcated in the station signage.
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simon
New Member
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Post by simon on Jun 22, 2008 13:20:34 GMT -8
Yes, someone explained that to me but I didn't bother changing the graphics since it would make them look uglier (I was basically just copying BART design). I appreciate the comment.
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Post by masonite on Jun 22, 2008 16:16:56 GMT -8
Here, I posted this in the comments on metroriderla.com, but since I put a little work in, might as well post it here too: Basically, while I agree this is a solid step forward, the design mistakes on the current screens are pretty huge. I'm sure a big reason for this is that they designed the screens before having the actual functionality in place, and hopefully they plan on fixing that, but right now from a design and usability standpoint, they're sub-par. Problems: 1. Terrible focus. What grabs your eye on these screens? The little white train times on the right side of the screen or the giant full color warnings about not standing near the track? You don't get a full color LCD widescreen just to use all the space on messages about not eating food on the trains. 2. The information is presented in a confusing manner. You've got scheduled times not actual times. You've got all trains listed on every screen instead of just the trains for that specific side of the platform. You've got the trains listed in a fixed order instead of showing which train is closer. And you're using white on black even though the whole point of buying LCD screens is the presence of color. Here's what I would do, keeping in mind that I'm an idiot and not a professional designer: Pretty simple, huh? Devote all the screen real-estate to the actual train times. Use a countdown clock (rounded to the nearest minute). Put the safety warnings in a scrollbar at the bottom of the screen. Color code the train listings. And put the listings in chronological order. Now let's take things a step further. In the first post in this thread we've got a picture of what it looks like when a train is leaving. It's a generic graphic that says "This train departs next." Well gee, thanks a lot. Mind telling me which train and where it's going? Accompany these with an audio announcement and suddenly the "is this Wilshire/Western or North Hollywood?" problem is dead forever. It's all really simple stuff, but thanks to the LCD screens, if they just programmed and designed these things properly, they could have something really useful and attractive instead of the current system. And finally, if you'll excuse the bad photoshop, he's roughly what it would look like in person (though I have doubts about how the color and white text would look in the dark lighting down there): I'm sure they're already working on this stuff, but I did email my junk to them anyway in the hopes they'd find it useful. Great job on these. I couldn't agree more with your conclusions and this would be a big enhancement to riders, even locals like me. I agree an audio announcement telling riders where the train is going "This is a Purple Line train bound for Wilshire/Western" and again in Espanol is necessary. Part of the problem with our subway is that it is so impersonal with no station attendant, no announcements other than the occasional inaudible drivel from the conductor and very little signage. This would largely clear up that issue. Don't assume someone at Metro is working on these. Let us know what kind of response if any you get from them. This couldn't be that hard to implement.
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Post by jejozwik on Jul 16, 2008 4:42:53 GMT -8
there back
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Post by rayinla on Jul 16, 2008 8:57:08 GMT -8
there back And are they showing real time arrivals or just regurgitating the published schedule?
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Post by jejozwik on Jul 16, 2008 9:03:18 GMT -8
And are they showing real time arrivals or just regurgitating the published schedule? schedule times i believe. but they matched well to my clock so it could be real-time. also, apparently these have been on and off for the last few days
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Post by roadtrainer on Jul 16, 2008 9:07:49 GMT -8
BART has had "the next train arriving" signs for years, it's about time Metro caught up! Sincerely The Roadtrainer I think BART is the Standard that Metro should follow, because it seems like every time Metro upgrades.....BART already has had it in operation..... for years!
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simon
New Member
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Post by simon on Jul 16, 2008 18:54:15 GMT -8
there back This looks like a good step forward for the interface. I still hate that they waste the entire color screen on stupid warnings no one reads, but this slight change is now conveying much more information than the previous display.
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Post by Elson on Jul 16, 2008 19:11:29 GMT -8
there back This looks like a good step forward for the interface. I still hate that they waste the entire color screen on stupid warnings no one reads, but this slight change is now conveying much more information than the previous display. Uh, you ARE aware that the color screen section is also designed to display moving-picture advertisements, right?
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simon
New Member
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Post by simon on Jul 17, 2008 0:26:34 GMT -8
I've never actually seen an ad, only safety warnings and elevator announcements (PS: it's funny that they list accepting credit and debit cards under the heading of Safety Begins with Me).
If they're wasting it on ads, that's even worse. They're distracting people from vital information and wasting color and space. Look how tiny the text is for those train times. It could be huge and much more readable for those with bad eyesight if they used the whole screen.
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Post by jejozwik on Jul 17, 2008 7:12:23 GMT -8
...It could be huge and much more readable for those with bad eyesight if they used the whole screen. with the number of these screens in each station, you would be hard pressed to find an area were the text is too small. even then if you can't read the train to notifications, you probably should not be riding metro alone. as you would be unable to read the station names labels at each station when the train pulls up. and since we have no reliable audio notifications, you would be on the train till the end of the line
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Post by LAofAnaheim on Jul 17, 2008 7:31:42 GMT -8
I never saw train arrival displays in Philadelphia & New York...yet, we complain about everything LA does. Why isn't LA built up like NYC? Why isn't the LA metro like BART? Yadda, yadda, yadda....yes, there is criticism that can be had, but c'mon. It' not like if Washington DC & SF BART have train arrivals, that EVERY system in the US should? I stood 40 minutes at 1 am in the NY subway waiting for the A train, until some worker came by to said the A train stopped for repairs. Imagine if NY had Train Arrival Displays like LA?
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Post by jejozwik on Jul 17, 2008 8:12:51 GMT -8
its not the problem of them being there. its that they could be so much better
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Post by roadtrainer on Jul 17, 2008 8:44:49 GMT -8
I never saw train arrival displays in Philadelphia & New York...yet, we complain about everything LA does. Why isn't LA built up like NYC? Why isn't the LA metro like BART? Yadda, yadda, yadda....yes, there is criticism that can be had, but c'mon. It' not like if Washington DC & SF BART have train arrivals, that EVERY system in the US should? I stood 40 minutes at 1 am in the NY subway waiting for the A train, until some worker came by to said the A train stopped for repairs. Imagine if NY had Train Arrival Displays like LA? Why slam BART? They had the "next train Arriving signs" back in 1980's! I'm slamming Metro cause they are behind BART by 20 years!!! Sincerely The Roadtrainer
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Post by dasubergeek on Jul 17, 2008 10:16:38 GMT -8
there back HEY! You can't take pictures in the Metro! I'm denouncing you to the Department of Underfunded Undergrounds!
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Mac
Full Member
Posts: 192
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Post by Mac on Jul 17, 2008 10:48:13 GMT -8
there back HEY! You can't take pictures in the Metro! I'm denouncing you to the Department of Underfunded Undergrounds! Haha, you might wanna probably speak for yourself, you probably have a collection of metro photos hidden somewhere on your computer. Don't worry, I'll go to jail with you (im guilty too )
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Post by Elson on Jul 17, 2008 19:59:08 GMT -8
Uhhh. can someone please inform this guy that the Metro Rail was built some 20 years after BART was? This guy seems to represent a totally different kind of urban density, if you know what I mean.
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Post by Transit Coalition on Jul 17, 2008 20:31:08 GMT -8
there back And are they showing real time arrivals or just regurgitating the published schedule? Until sometime in 2009, the signs will display the scheduled arrival times, which is generally fairly accurate on the Red and Purple Lines. There is new hardware and software on order that will be operational next year to provide real time information, so this project continues to evolve.
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Post by bobdavis on Jul 17, 2008 20:33:46 GMT -8
As I recall, BART was supposed to have train-arrival message boards from Day One. The trains ran for years with cardboard or masonite signs in the front window showing the destination. Not very "Space Age", more like streetcar dash signs.
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