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Post by Jason Saunders on Sept 17, 2008 18:33:38 GMT -8
I know many of you, being the transit geeks that you are ;D have daydreamed about ways to improve the Blue Line. How would you?
My personal favorite is to take as much of the freight ROW adjacent to the line south of Washington that you can get and turn it into a beautiful green way/bike way/jog path such as that on some parts of the Orange Line.
Did you know there are no class 1 bike lanes in this part of south L.A. and that this part of South L.A. has some serious health issues. A class 1 bikeway park way would encourage physical fitness and mental health as well as connect the three parks along the ROW. The restorative effects of green environments are well documented in psychological journals.
I'm sure there are plenty of reasons why it wouldn't work as well but I can't help but think how cool it would be to ride your bike along this path or to sit in the train and see green trees as you travel through some of the bleakest parts of our metropolis.
What do you think and what is your Blue Line improvement idea?
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Post by wrcousert on Sept 17, 2008 19:23:04 GMT -8
Totally grade separate the Blue Line. The Long Beach portion should be a subway, as well as most, if not all of the Downtown L.A. portion.
Increase the speed to 75 MPH.
Build the downtown connector so we can have a single seat ride from Long Beach to Pasadena as originally planned.
Build public restrooms at or very near every station. This is a serious problem!
Free wifi access would be a nice touch.
I would be willing to pay double fares until the construction costs were recovered.
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Post by darrell on Sept 17, 2008 21:05:29 GMT -8
How about just the simple step of getting the City of Long Beach to give trains signal priority? Nothing like a three-car train stopping at a red light for two cars to cross.
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Post by wrcousert on Sept 17, 2008 21:38:13 GMT -8
How about just the simple step of getting the City of Long Beach to give trains signal priority? Nothing like a three-car train stopping at a red light for two cars to cross. I asked about that a while back. I think the response was there would be a savings of only a few minutes at most.
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Post by darrell on Sept 17, 2008 22:09:14 GMT -8
I asked about that a while back. I think the response was there would be a savings of only a few minutes at most. Signal priority on Washington Blvd. reduced the schedule time of the 3.1-mile 35 mph section from Washington station to 7th Street from 15 minutes to the current 10 minutes, if I recall. The 2.9-mile 35 mph section in Long Beach from Willow station to the end now takes 15-16 minutes. Five minutes would be 1/3 less, and seem a lot faster. As a comparison, 3 miles at 55 mph on private right-of-way with stations every mile is typically scheduled at 6 minutes (2 minutes per mile). Same for subway.
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Post by Tony Fernandez on Sept 17, 2008 22:09:12 GMT -8
Getting a few minutes saved on the line by changing something at the end of the line usually means that there's a huge delay somewhere there.
There's not really a problem in having at-grade slow-runnings sections like this at the end of lines. It doesn't really affect travel times too much and it helps encourage development around that area and gain more riders.
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Post by JerardWright on Sept 18, 2008 20:37:00 GMT -8
My Ideas.
* Add second platforms at Pico/Chick Hearn, Vernon, Florence and 103rd Street Stations.
* Re-zone industrial spots along Blue Line for housing/parks/greenspace.
* Signal Priority in Downtown Long Beach.
* Extend platforms for 4 car trains. After Regional Connector is built, replace at-grade Washington Blvd running with new grade separated alignment linking Convention Center, South Park, Fashion District, Electronics District to Blue Line Right of Way.
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vnc
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Post by vnc on Sept 18, 2008 21:07:27 GMT -8
How about an extention From Long Beach to San Pedro or Seal Beach?
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Post by bluelineshawn on Sept 18, 2008 21:25:47 GMT -8
My Ideas.* Add second platforms at Pico/Chick Hearn, Vernon, Florence and 103rd Street Stations. * Re-zone industrial spots along Blue Line for housing/parks/greenspace. * Signal Priority in Downtown Long Beach. * Extend platforms for 4 car trains. After Regional Connector is built, replace at-grade Washington Blvd running with new grade separated alignment linking Convention Center, South Park, Fashion District, Electronics District to Blue Line Right of Way. Dude you have to let those 4-car trains go! The platform at Pine Ave. can't be extended without blocking either Pine or Pacific. The platform at Pacific can't be extended without blocking 7th or 8th Streets. There are several other streets where trains can't fit on a block when stopped at a light. If Long Beach won't allow signal prioritization I can't imagine that they'll allow streets to be closed.
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Post by bluelineshawn on Sept 18, 2008 21:33:29 GMT -8
How about just the simple step of getting the City of Long Beach to give trains signal priority? Nothing like a three-car train stopping at a red light for two cars to cross. I was wondering if they're going to do this already. According to Metro the blue line will operate at 6-minute headways during rush hour all the way to Long Beach after Expo Phase 1 opens. I don't see this happening easily without signal prioritization.
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Post by wrcousert on Sept 18, 2008 22:47:07 GMT -8
Dude you have to let those 4-car trains go! The platform at Pine Ave. can't be extended without blocking either Pine or Pacific. The platform at Pacific can't be extended without blocking 7th or 8th Streets. There are several other streets where trains can't fit on a block when stopped at a light. If Long Beach won't allow signal prioritization I can't imagine that they'll allow streets to be closed. Do you think Long Beach would object to a Downtown El?
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Post by wrcousert on Sept 18, 2008 22:54:21 GMT -8
How about an extention From Long Beach to San Pedro or Seal Beach? I'd like to see an extension all the way to the Newport Beach Pier, but it will never happen.
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Post by JerardWright on Sept 19, 2008 8:56:05 GMT -8
My Ideas.* Add second platforms at Pico/Chick Hearn, Vernon, Florence and 103rd Street Stations. * Re-zone industrial spots along Blue Line for housing/parks/greenspace. * Signal Priority in Downtown Long Beach. * Extend platforms for 4 car trains. After Regional Connector is built, replace at-grade Washington Blvd running with new grade separated alignment linking Convention Center, South Park, Fashion District, Electronics District to Blue Line Right of Way. Dude you have to let those 4-car trains go! The platform at Pine Ave. can't be extended without blocking either Pine or Pacific. The platform at Pacific can't be extended without blocking 7th or 8th Streets. There are several other streets where trains can't fit on a block when stopped at a light. If Long Beach won't allow signal prioritization I can't imagine that they'll allow streets to be closed. I know that fact that you can't operate 4 car trains on the Long Beach Loop. However the largest segment of Blue Line ridership is from Willow Station north towards Los Angeles. So how hard is it to have a 4 car train start from Downtown and then unhook a train when it approaches Willow Street? Not very hard at all and given the large boardings/alightings this figure the amount of time for passengers to exit the train, the last LRV can be unhooked, switch and then recoupled when the next train approaches. Besides if the talk of grade separating that segment in Downtown Long Beach ever becomes a reality then we will need the extra train length to justify the expense of building the infrastructure.
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vnc
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Post by vnc on Oct 11, 2008 14:27:21 GMT -8
You couldn't get 4 cars into 7th/Metro. But you could get 4 cars into Pico. And you could get 4 cars into PCH and into Anahiem Station. If you extended the Platforms. To Bad they doesn't end the Blue Line on Ocean and Long Beach instead of First and Pine.
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Post by jejozwik on Oct 11, 2008 14:54:32 GMT -8
it has come to my attention that metro does not design its stations for future expansion
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Post by neyojii on Oct 11, 2008 17:57:04 GMT -8
After visiting the midwest and riding the South Shore Railroad, I think the Blue Line cars need refurbishment and the cars need to add more suburban seating with cushion seats onboard.
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Post by darrell on Oct 11, 2008 18:23:24 GMT -8
You couldn't get 4 cars into 7th/Metro. But you could get 4 cars into Pico. And you could get 4 cars into PCH and into Anahiem Station. If you extended the Platforms. To Bad they doesn't end the Blue Line on Ocean and Long Beach instead of First and Pine. Here's a photo of the Pico station I posted back on March 2, platform edge highlighted in yellow.
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Post by bobdavis on Oct 13, 2008 19:47:55 GMT -8
I would guess that LACTC (Metro predecessor) had no reason to expect that ridership on the Blue Line would increase the way it has--as Mr. Spock would say, "insufficient data for a logical answer". Regarding 4-car trains, San Diego used to run them (when headways on the El Cajon line were limited by single track bridges) and I think Sacramento still uses them during weekday rush hours.
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Post by darrell on Oct 13, 2008 21:24:00 GMT -8
I would guess that LACTC (Metro predecessor) had no reason to expect that ridership on the Blue Line would increase the way it has--as Mr. Spock would say, "insufficient data for a logical answer". Regarding 4-car trains, San Diego used to run them (when headways on the El Cajon line were limited by single track bridges) and I think Sacramento still uses them during weekday rush hours. Still does. Here's a four-car north-bound train early in the morning downtown last month.
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Post by erict on Oct 14, 2008 7:12:58 GMT -8
Not true of the red line, I have noticed that there are mezzanines to nowhere on many of the stations.... they seem to point to further expansion.
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Post by bobdavis on Oct 14, 2008 21:54:26 GMT -8
Thanks for the Sacramento photo--I haven't been there for a while. One thing I particularly like about their "RT Metro" is the lettering style of the road numbers on the LRV's--just like Pacific Electric used.
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Post by ieko on Nov 7, 2008 2:41:31 GMT -8
I think they'd need to grade seperate downtown long beach and after Washington station.
Also some improvements will definitly need to be made to 7th/metro and any other shared station with the expo line, I can't imagine how they're going to fit both lines during rush hour with the current configuration.
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Post by erict on Nov 7, 2008 13:02:02 GMT -8
I totally agree, from Washington Blve. up Flower will need to be somehow grade separated, either putting the roads under the train or sinking the train below ground. This should be included as part of the DTC project. However, so far it appears to not be an agenda at all. I guess they will wait until it is all up and running and the problems multiply.
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snuffy
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Post by snuffy on Nov 15, 2008 14:36:11 GMT -8
we need LASD on the trains and at the stations.
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Post by bluelineshawn on Nov 15, 2008 16:07:42 GMT -8
I think they'd need to grade seperate downtown long beach and after Washington station. Also some improvements will definitly need to be made to 7th/metro and any other shared station with the expo line, I can't imagine how they're going to fit both lines during rush hour with the current configuration. They're going to fit the trains the same way that they do now. Expo is only going to operate 5 tph at the start. But when it opens all the way to Santa Monica it will have essentially the same headway as the blue line. In a perfect world where trains are always on time they could turn them at the needed rate, however we don't live in a perfect world so there will be switching of trains between Expo and the blue line to fill missing service gaps. But there will also be skipped intervals on the schedule from time to time. I think that's a given.
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Post by bluelineshawn on Nov 15, 2008 16:11:54 GMT -8
we need LASD on the trains and at the stations. Why? I don't see very many problems. Do you? Either way the fare gates are scheduled to come to the blue line fall 2010. Maybe that will help.
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Post by wad on Nov 16, 2008 5:52:41 GMT -8
Why? I don't see very many problems. Do you? A man was critically beaten earlier this week on a platform in downtown Long Beach. He may have died by now.
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Post by bluelineshawn on Nov 16, 2008 8:46:00 GMT -8
A man was critically beaten earlier this week on a platform in downtown Long Beach. He may have died by now. That's terrible. I hadn't heard about that. I wonder if they recorded anything helpful on the cameras, or if the cameras even record? The news articles don't say what happened so maybe they don't know.
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snuffy
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Post by snuffy on Nov 16, 2008 12:41:22 GMT -8
A man was critically beaten earlier this week on a platform in downtown Long Beach. He may have died by now. That's terrible. I hadn't heard about that. I wonder if they recorded anything helpful on the cameras, or if the cameras even record? The news articles don't say what happened so maybe they don't know. that's what I'm worried about. They do have surveillance cameras and monitoring 24/7 in every metro stations through the control center at right next to the Blue Line Rosa Parks station, but by the time the police arrived, it was too late. You know what so funny about? I see lot of LASD officers on Gold Line and Red Line for checking tickets, people, etc... but I don't really see them on Green Line and Blue line except Rosa Parks station and Compton station.
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Post by bluelineshawn on Nov 16, 2008 13:11:30 GMT -8
I sometimes see deputies at other stations. Compton, Del Amo, etc. They are very often sitting in a patrol car at the Willow Station in Long Beach. Actually when I think about it they probably have more deputies on the blue line than the gold, but they're not as visible. The deputies at Union Station will stand on the gold line platform, the station, and the red line platform. We see them around. The deputies outside 7th/metro are usually outside in their patrol car. I really don't know the theory behind how they decide who does what, but it very well could be that the number of officers are similar between the blue and gold, but used differently. For example I sometimes see deputies driving on Long Beach Ave next to the blue line. Maybe they figure that they need to have the deputies more mobile on the blue line and not just staying in one spot. It's an interesting question. Maybe someone here is familiar with police tactics and can explain.
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