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Post by Gokhan on Aug 30, 2009 22:05:34 GMT -8
^^ This one I've seen many times before and it's a really good one. Didn't know it was you who took the photo though. Don't remember seeing any other Southern Pacific photos...
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Post by darrell on Aug 30, 2009 22:19:28 GMT -8
You have been in this for so many years, Darrell. You didn't have a camera back then? I myself got into taking pictures as soon as I got into this in 2004. Let me tell you how much Kodachrome I have, from the latter 1960s to 2002! I have a number of Air Line slides from the late 1980s which I'll have to go back and look at. But they're a lot less convenient than digital, and my digital photos look better. In the meantime, here's a 2/28/08 photo at Western Ave., showing the old railroad crossing signals still in place.
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Post by Gokhan on Aug 31, 2009 7:01:02 GMT -8
Let me tell you how much Kodachrome I have, from the latter 1960s to 2002! I have a number of Air Line slides from the late 1980s which I'll have to go back and look at. But they're a lot less convenient than digital, and my digital photos look better. Could you scan them perhaps when you have time? We could post them on the Historical Expo (Air) Line Photos thread along with Alan's Kodachromes. I would really like to see them.
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Post by Jason Saunders on Aug 31, 2009 7:55:16 GMT -8
I especially like the Palms/Cheviot Hills shots he took, the most mysterious segment of the line, which was under the gun until a few months ago when it finally got approved. We don't seem to have more than a photo or two from the late Southern Pacific days. This section I think has the potential to be the most beautiful in the entire alignment as there is no street in the line of site on both sides of the alignment and ample room for plenty of trees. I hope that they really take the "green corridor" theme home in this section giving us a a mini forest to travel through on both sides of the 10 tunnel.
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Post by Jason Saunders on Aug 31, 2009 7:57:32 GMT -8
The main photo I have from the 1980s is this one of an eastbound local freight crossing Venice-Robertson. I happened to have my camera as I stopped for the train. You can see part of a crossing gate on Robertson at the far right. Wow, Darrel, thanks for posting. It's a trip seeing freight on Expo so recently. Why did they discontinue service? When you took the photo did you know they would soon stop running trains down the line?
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Post by darrell on Aug 31, 2009 10:16:41 GMT -8
Wow, Darrel, thanks for posting. It's a trip seeing freight on Expo so recently. Why did they discontinue service? When you took the photo did you know they would soon stop running trains down the line? You're welcome! At the end, about the only business still receiving rail cars was Fisher Lumber. I recall the old Santa Monica Outlook having an article about its coming end, so I had in mind that I should take photos. But digging through my slides a few years ago the only photos of a train on the Air Line were this and another at the same time - which took some careful examination to figure out where they were.
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Post by darrell on Aug 31, 2009 10:23:29 GMT -8
This section I think has the potential to be the most beautiful in the entire alignment as there is no street in the line of site on both sides of the alignment and ample room for plenty of trees. I hope that they really take the "green corridor" theme home in this section giving us a a mini forest to travel through on both sides of the 10 tunnel. Click this link for a 360-degree panorama taken in 2003 next to the right-of-way just north of the Santa Monica Freeway. (At 3940 pixels wide it obviously won't fit here!) I was trying out the panorama feature of my then-new first digital camera. Now that we have fast Internet connections it's feasible to but it on the web at 800KB. I agree with you both about this section of the right-of-way. But for the freeway noise you feel like you're transported from the city to a far-different place out in the country.
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Post by Gokhan on Aug 31, 2009 10:39:12 GMT -8
Why did they discontinue service? Until 1987 the trains ran up to Fisher Lumber in Santa Monica (recently converted to City of Santa Monica yard next to Memorial Park) at 14th St. The Southern Pacific Santa Monica Branch trains also ran to Beverly Hills through the mid 1980s, delivering supplies everyday to a bakery in Beverly Hills. They followed the Expo Line route and then took the wye to Sepulveda Blvd and followed Santa Monica Blvd into Beverly Hills. Why was the freight service stopped? First demand was diminishing. Second MTA has a policy that they don't want freight service on the tracks that they purchase. This way they don't have to deal with opposition from businesses who use the freight service when they want to replace freight with light-rail. Here is a very good article from LA Times from the Southern Pacific Santa Monica Branch (aka Air Line or Expo Line) freight-service days:
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Post by Gokhan on Aug 31, 2009 10:51:45 GMT -8
Here is an historic article on Exposition Bvd widening and right-of-way narrowing: I've got many other articles on the history of Expo Line, including some from 1920s when they tried the kill the Air Line, and some from late 1980s, when Zev Yaroslavsky tried to prevent the purchase by MTA. At the time he was a young councilman who gained power through Jewish activism and he strongly sided with the NIMBYs. Now he's changed for the better and stands up to the NIMBYs as a mature, wise man. In that sense Fix Expo's trying of using such obsolete tricks to gain power and become a councilman and such will never work anymore, as everyone acknowledges now that we need light-rail and they can care less about the NIMBYs.
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Post by darrell on Aug 31, 2009 11:22:06 GMT -8
Do you have any newspaper clippings from the end of the Air Line's freight service in the 1980s? I transcribed this 1982 clipping, " Decision May Be Near on County Rail System", about early an early light rail proposal, that included this map:
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Post by Gokhan on Aug 31, 2009 11:45:02 GMT -8
Do you have any newspaper clippings from the end of the Air Line's freight service in the 1980s? I only have LA Times articles. I don't have the Santa Monica Evening Outlook newspaper article on the last day of freight service to Fisher Lumber and associated ceremony in March 1987 (?). Someone needs to go to the Santa Monica library to get it. The LA Times articles I have are mostly on the right-of-way purchase and opposition to it. The LA Times article I just posted on the Expo Line trains going through Beverly Hills is my all-time favorite. They should have kept these trains to this day. Then we would have the Expo Line built not only to Santa Monica but also to UCLA, Century City, and Beverly Hills. And this would have already happened by now at a fraction of the cost of the current project.
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Post by Gokhan on Aug 31, 2009 17:34:12 GMT -8
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Post by Gokhan on Aug 31, 2009 17:54:43 GMT -8
This is cool. It's being installed at Western Ave and at Denker Ave, the two nearby grade crossings for the Foshay School. It's brand-new for California (that's a surprise, isn't it?) and therefore Expo will have to get a demonstration approval through CPUC for it, as CPUC doesn't have it in its books.
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Post by darrell on Aug 31, 2009 18:13:40 GMT -8
From this week's August 6 Minutes: Chair Wesson requested Authority staff to come back at the next board meeting with a presentation or report on what steps have to be taken in order for the Expo Line to open up to Crenshaw Boulevard by the year 2010. [...]
Director Yaroslavsky amended Chair Wesson’ previous request regarding the Expo Line opening up to Crenshaw Boulevard by the year 2010, instructing Authority staff to include in the report, an evaluation of the impacts of either of the options of accelerating or not accelerating to Crenshaw Boulevard, and what the impacts would be on the rest of the Line and to Culver City.
Mr. Thorpe said that staff will look at it from the entire Project, as well as to Crenshaw Boulevard. From the report for Item 6.b, it's astonishing to see: The Contractor’s approach in completing the bridge was to progress the work in a linear manner working from the east to the west. Under this approach, the Contractor’s schedule showed the station being completed in September, 2012. Staff asked the Contractor to evaluate the costs and the schedule savings if they were to accelerate the Venice/Robertson Aerial Structure work using two crews and constructing the bridge from each end. The Contractor has determined that after acceleration, the station could be completed 12 months earlier in September, 2011. Three years from now to build the aerial station?! I was also going to note the pavement warning lights demonstration project, but you did it first! They've been installed at a number of pedestrian crosswalks in Santa Monica (especially Colorado Ave. and Santa Monica Blvd.), and really get your attention, even in bright daylight. Who can identify the location in the photo? It's too fuzzy to read the signs even if enlarged, although the lower-right appears to say "Medical Center" to me.
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Post by Gokhan on Aug 31, 2009 18:20:20 GMT -8
Three years from now to build the aerial station?! And that probably ignores the usual unanticipated problems and delays. Yeah, I'm now starting to think that planning and building rail is way beyond a normal human lifespan. I'm going to invest in kids and grandkids and put it in my will that they continue the crusade and they ask their kids and grandkids to do the same. LOL I wonder how Henry Huntington did it.
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Post by darrell on Aug 31, 2009 18:38:01 GMT -8
I wonder how Henry Huntington did it. No environmental process, all at-grade, no structures, no utility relocation, mostly on empty land. Didn't Expo have a target date for completion with FFP, with incentives / penalties? DWP delays at La Brea and La Cienega are no reason for one crew and a 2012 completion date in Culver City.
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Post by Gokhan on Aug 31, 2009 18:45:57 GMT -8
Didn't Expo have a target date for completion with FFP, with incentives / penalties? Apperently there are incentives for delaying it -- Expo is giving them $$$,$$$ to accelerate the project back to schedule.
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Post by kenalpern on Aug 31, 2009 22:34:36 GMT -8
Whether it's the contractors or the contracting process, this whole things makes me just sick. I just really don't understand why it should take that long.
So who are these contractors?
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Post by Transit Coalition on Aug 31, 2009 22:40:27 GMT -8
Whether it's the contractors or the contracting process, this whole things makes me just sick. I just really don't understand why it should take that long. So who are these contractors? It is a huge multi-national conglomerate "Dilly, Dalley and Stall". It is their construction branch, not the legal arm. They were the guys that broke off from "Dewey, Cheatum and Howe".
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Post by Gokhan on Sept 1, 2009 2:17:36 GMT -8
The "bridges" of the Expo Authority went down when a certain member of the Expo Board urged canceling the contractor's contract for not reaching the local-jobs goal in South LA. Ever since then the contractor cannot hire workers and things need to be built in a serial, rather than a parallel, manner, with only a handful of workers. The bridges that went down were also bridges of trust. That made the relationships with the contractor more difficult.
I think local jobs is a wondeful idea. But forcing it like this is idiotic at best. As a result the contractor wants to build the Venice/Robertson aerial pillar-by-pillar. If we got together our Friends 4 Expo people, we could probably build it faster ourselves.
But then this is what happens when politicans run the game. Thanks to some of them on the board and some of them not on the board, the project didn't happen for decades, and now, thanks to them it's taking decades to complete. They need to somehow take the politicans completely out of picture from MTA and transit.
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Post by kenalpern on Sept 1, 2009 4:53:15 GMT -8
I'm a bit confused...as are we all. Is this a problem of lousy contractors (like the division of Balfour Beatty that did the 405 widening between the 90 and 10 freeways), or the contracting process itself (the low bid process that paid too little for such a big project as that 405 widening).
Is this an unavoidable engineering problem, or a political problem that made this a local jobs program instead of making this a process that could and can be expedited by hauling in a bunch of workers from who-cares-where to build this right and efficiently?
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Post by kenalpern on Sept 1, 2009 4:57:40 GMT -8
...and is there any gamesmanship by any Expo Boardmembers who just don't wanna get off the Board to allow Westside politicians to join up and replace them?
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Post by Jason Saunders on Sept 1, 2009 7:06:50 GMT -8
I wonder if some media attention would:
A: Gives us more information. B: Get the thing built closer to 'on time'
I also wonder why there are no financial incentives (penalties or bonuses) to complete the project on time. Contrarily, we seem to be offering to pay them MORE to get it built late.
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Post by Gokhan on Sept 1, 2009 8:17:28 GMT -8
...and is there any gamesmanship by any Expo Boardmembers who just don't wanna get off the Board to allow Westside politicians to join up and replace them? Yeah, right, get Rosendahl and Koretz on board and the line will be finished in 2050 (and detoured on Venice and Lincoln). Why don't we just get Fix Expo and NFSR on board? LOL
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Post by Gokhan on Sept 1, 2009 11:03:31 GMT -8
These are our infamous contractors:
Flatiron Construction Subsidiary FCI Constructors Wins $420M Design-Build Light Rail Project in Los Angeles
LONGMONT, Colo.--(BUSINESS WIRE)--March 9, 2006--FCI Constructors, the California subsidiary of Colorado-based Flatiron Construction, has been awarded a $420M contract to construct the new Mid-City/Exposition Light Rail in Los Angeles, California.
Commissioned by the Exposition Metro Line Construction Authority, a joint powers authority of the State of California, the project consists of 9.6 miles of new light rail transit line from downtown Los Angeles to Culver City. Construction includes eleven passenger stations with two elevated, three park-and-ride lots, bicycle lanes, and one cut-and-cover tunnel near the University of Southern California.
The project will be executed by FCI/Fluor/Parsons, a joint venture led by FCI Constructors (45%), with Fluor Enterprises (30%) and designer Parsons Transportation Group (25%). The final design will begin immediately, with construction starting in the first quarter of 2007. The project is slated for completion in November 2009.
Flatiron Construction Corp. is a Royal BAM Group company. Flatiron specializes in transportation and heavy civil projects both on a national scale and in local districts. Its experience encompasses major highways, traditional and specialty bridges, toll roads, tunnels and rail transit projects throughout the United States. Flatiron is consistently ranked among the top bridge and highway builders in North America.
The other problem with this contractor has been that they have been asking for more and more money all the time, and the cost of the project has been drastically escalating as a result. I think they should get the Phase 2 EIR done as soon as possible and find a decent contractor this time and give the remaining part of the Phase 1 contract to the new contractor and open the line to Santa Monica in 2013 instead of to Venice/Robertson in 2013 as it will happen with this contractor.
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Post by rajacobs on Sept 1, 2009 12:20:49 GMT -8
Given the politics, potential for graft, lack of clarity regarding the relationships between the city and contractors and the neighborhood politics, I feel as if I'm walking in a swamp.
If the air was clearer... I'd imagine that a concerted lobbying for a more time effective approach than the "pillar by pillar" build would be helpful. --Lobbying directed at the Expo "Directors" & city hall, with media attention that raises a specter of poor project management and sponsorship. --Lobbying that offers a vision of residents waiting with baited breath for completion not just to Venice Robertson, but the Santa Monica pier. Hey if those folks exist I'm one of them!
But the politics are confusing to me. When I saw the NIMBYs in the Vista del Mar meeting--I was sort of shocked. When I see power line relocation schedule failure--I can't imagine a good enough excuse. When I read about the pillar-by-pillar ho-hum, "we'll get it done one day" project schedule, normally I'd roll my eyes, but I care about this one, and it makes mereally mad.
I'd like to believe that enough people care and enough people could get even Mr. Koretz' attention, and move this thing along so that we can enjoy the Expoline before we're ready to move into assisted living!
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Post by erict on Sept 1, 2009 13:35:27 GMT -8
Most things at Metro move at a glacial pace, in my opinion. I never thought the Red line would get finished, it was chaos until the last station opened.
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Post by darrell on Sept 1, 2009 22:18:20 GMT -8
National Blvd. from Hayden to Jefferson will be closed to cut over to the new bridge next week, per this announcement today from the Expo Authority: CULVER CITY Tuesday, September 8, 2009 thru Wednesday, September 9, 2009, 7:00 p.m. to 6:00 a.m.
CITY OF LOS ANGELES Tuesday, September 8, 2009 thru Wednesday, September 9, 2009, 9:00 p.m. to 6:00 a.m.
Where: Detours will be implemented on Jefferson Boulevard at La Cienega Boulevard and at National Boulevard from the Jefferson Boulevard intersection (Los Angeles) to Hayden Avenue intersection in the City of Culver City.
What: Construction crews will close both eastbound and westbound National Boulevard. Additionally, both eastbound and westbound Jefferson Boulevard, west of La Cienega Boulevard will be closed beginning at 9:00 p.m. Detours will be available. These activities are necessary for the realigning of traffic from the north side of National Boulevard to the south side.
Traffic Impacts: National Boulevard will be closed for the duration of this construction activity. Electronic message boards signage and flagmen will be used to safely direct vehicular traffic in order to minimize disruption to the driving public. Parking restrictions in all construction areas will be strictly enforced at all times.
Please click here to view the complete construction notice. Here's a repost of my photo last Friday of construction on the new National Blvd.: I just thought, I bet they'll use the vacated north side of National Blvd. for access to bring the drilling rig to Ballona Creek for the rail bridge footings.
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Post by rajacobs on Sept 2, 2009 12:45:37 GMT -8
A July 9 Column in "Pedestrian View of Los Angeles," discusses the "Expoline Emulator" bus line: pedestrianviewofla.blogspot.com/2009/07/expo-line-transit-service-interface_10.html. The busline "would be a temporary gap until Expo Phase II opens. It would enulate the future Expo Stations, but along Pico Bl." If such concern to meet area transportation requirements exists in city govt., that planning is under way for a temporary bus line, then the public need to speed up Phase I & II, even at extra cost, may hvae legs.
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Post by wad on Sept 3, 2009 3:40:58 GMT -8
The suggestion for the Expo Phase II emulator was mine, on MetroRider LA. Pedestrian View of L.A. is an aggregator site. It would run for a few years, possibly as the identity of the current Big Blue Bus Rapid 7.
Keep in mind these are suggestions I am pitching to Metro. These aren't official service proposals.
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