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Post by transitfan on Apr 17, 2014 9:30:58 GMT -8
It's taken me a long time to try and figure out how the regional connector works, the recent maps have sort of helped, so correct me if I'm wrong. After the regional connector is built: Northbound Blue line trains begin in long beach and travel all the way to the end of the line on the Gold Line Foothill Extension. Southbound Gold line trains begin at the end of the line on the Gold Line Foothill Extension and travel all the way to Long Beach Eastbound Expo line trains begin in Santa Monica and travel all the way to the end of the line of the Gold line Eastside Extension Westbound Gold line trains begin at the end of the line of the Gold Line Eastside Extension and travel all the way to Santa Monica. In Downtown, in between little tokyo and pico, The Gold line, Gold Line Eastside Extension, Expo line and Blue line all share tracks, which except for between 7th metro and pico is all the new regional connector track. So when the regional connector is built the gold line name will be completely retired. and we'll have the east/west expo line and the north south blue line.That is correct except the east/west line will be the gold line, not the expo line. Also on the north/south line, it has been mentioned that because of the length and the ridership levels some blue line trains may turn back at chinatown station using the crossover tracks at the maintenance facility. Correct, that's probably why Expo was never assigned an official color. There will be a pocket track just north of the 7th St/Metro Center station, so maybe some trains will turn back there as well.
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Post by andert on Apr 17, 2014 9:35:03 GMT -8
That is correct except the east/west line will be the gold line, not the expo line. Also on the north/south line, it has been mentioned that because of the length and the ridership levels some blue line trains may turn back at chinatown station using the crossover tracks at the maintenance facility. Correct, that's probably why Expo was never assigned an official color. There will be a pocket track just north of the 7th St/Metro Center station, so maybe some trains will turn back there as well. I thought that at the time of the regional connector's opening they were going to reassign all lines letter designations, so the east-west line would have the gold color but would be designated 'E'.
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Post by bzcat on Apr 17, 2014 9:39:32 GMT -8
It's taken me a long time to try and figure out how the regional connector works, the recent maps have sort of helped, so correct me if I'm wrong. After the regional connector is built: Northbound Blue line trains begin in long beach and travel all the way to the end of the line on the Gold Line Foothill Extension. Southbound Gold line trains begin at the end of the line on the Gold Line Foothill Extension and travel all the way to Long Beach Eastbound Expo line trains begin in Santa Monica and travel all the way to the end of the line of the Gold line Eastside Extension Westbound Gold line trains begin at the end of the line of the Gold Line Eastside Extension and travel all the way to Santa Monica. In Downtown, in between little tokyo and pico, The Gold line, Gold Line Eastside Extension, Expo line and Blue line all share tracks, which except for between 7th metro and pico is all the new regional connector track. So when the regional connector is built the gold line name will be completely retired. and we'll have the east/west expo line and the north south blue line.That is correct except the east/west line will be the gold line, not the expo line. Also on the north/south line, it has been mentioned that because of the length and the ridership levels some blue line trains may turn back at chinatown station using the crossover tracks at the maintenance facility. Yes... Metro seems to have firmed up their planning on the service as all the official documents now says: Gold = East-West Blue = North-South But it is likely that those are just the colors on the map. Metro will likely rebrand the trains alphabetically before RC opens. Additionally, it is almost assured that there will be Blue line short line(s) train. It could end in Chinatown or Sierra Madre, or both on the north bound service; likewise, the south bound train will likely have short line service that terminates at the yard at Wardlow during off peak period just like now.
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Post by joemagruder on Apr 17, 2014 9:48:54 GMT -8
Somehow "Watts - Sierra Vista Local" comes to mind as the name for the blue line's short turns, don't know why.
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Post by joshuanickel on Apr 17, 2014 9:54:51 GMT -8
That is correct except the east/west line will be the gold line, not the expo line. Also on the north/south line, it has been mentioned that because of the length and the ridership levels some blue line trains may turn back at chinatown station using the crossover tracks at the maintenance facility. Yes... Metro seems to have firmed up their planning on the service as all the official documents now says: Gold = East-West Blue = North-South But it is likely that those are just the colors on the map. Metro will likely rebrand the trains alphabetically before RC opens.Additionally, it is almost assured that there will be Blue line short line(s) train. It could end in Chinatown or Sierra Madre, or both on the north bound service; likewise, the south bound train will likely have short line service that terminates at the yard at Wardlow during off peak period just like now. I am pretty sure that Metro will start referring to letters for the raillines as they have already had discussions regarding it. I refer back to this other thread that has been started where Metro has shown off a post regional connector map with letters for each line: Metro Rail Line Name Change
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Post by gatewaygent on Apr 17, 2014 14:57:35 GMT -8
As our Metro system fills in and matures, this will probably be the way to go. I don't think I want to imagine an expanded system where we're talking of the lavender, cornflower, chartreuse, or fuchsia lines. How silly will we seem to other world class cities.
Letters F, H, and I are left. I'm going to assume one of those is going to the WSAB/PEROW (future "Santa Ana" Line) and another is going to the "405" Line. The third could go to anything: SM-Azusa, Vermont Corridor, old Silver Line concept, Glendale, etc.
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Post by joshuanickel on Apr 18, 2014 10:11:14 GMT -8
It's taken me a long time to try and figure out how the regional connector works, the recent maps have sort of helped, so correct me if I'm wrong. After the regional connector is built: Northbound Blue line trains begin in long beach and travel all the way to the end of the line on the Gold Line Foothill Extension. Southbound Gold line trains begin at the end of the line on the Gold Line Foothill Extension and travel all the way to Long Beach Eastbound Expo line trains begin in Santa Monica and travel all the way to the end of the line of the Gold line Eastside Extension Westbound Gold line trains begin at the end of the line of the Gold Line Eastside Extension and travel all the way to Santa Monica. In Downtown, in between little tokyo and pico, The Gold line, Gold Line Eastside Extension, Expo line and Blue line all share tracks, which except for between 7th metro and pico is all the new regional connector track. So when the regional connector is built the gold line name will be completely retired. and we'll have the east/west expo line and the north south blue line.That is correct except the east/west line will be the gold line, not the expo line. Also on the north/south line, it has been mentioned that because of the length and the ridership levels some blue line trains may turn back at chinatown station using the crossover tracks at the maintenance facility. Dwight Sturtevant has informed me through facebook that he has talked to the head of rail ops at metro and the east/west line will be called EXPO (E on the line map) with the color changed from aqua to gold. Here is the track layout he created:
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Post by metrocenter on Apr 18, 2014 19:37:31 GMT -8
^ I cant believe they would use Expo as the name of the line whose color is Gold. Especially since Expo is the only current name which doesnt match the current naming convention. Changing it to Gold would bring it into compliance with the naming convention.
Also, Expo only makes sense because it mostly exists on Exposition Blvd. Having Expo in Azusa is just confusing.
(Not doubting you, just that it makes no sense.)
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Post by Alexis Kasperavičius on Apr 18, 2014 22:04:26 GMT -8
I can almost guarantee that the powers that be would never let the students of USC suffer the indignity of continually riding the blue and gold line so close to campus. It will be bad enough that the gold color of the line and the blue color of the Expo line station are almost exactly the same shades of USC's main rival UCLA. Calling it the "Expo line" instead of the "gold" line will remove some of the sting. To spell it out further the CEO of Metro, Art Leahy, is a huge USC fan. He often speaks of using lines to "...go and watch USC beat UCLA at the Rose Bowl or go and watch USC beat UCLA at the Coliseum." As he has final approval over things like this, I can't help but think his staff is aware of this, and would never present him with such a choice. Of course, there's a more rational reason of removing the name Gold line from the system so that someone who missed the announcements doesn't get on the gold line at Sierra Madre Village and expect to end up in East Los Angeles. The blue line showing up there will immediately indicate to someone that something big has changed. But I'm sure that wouldn't have anything to do with it.
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Post by culvercitylocke on Apr 18, 2014 23:50:08 GMT -8
Because there are two gold lines it makes sense to drop them both, otherwise confusion would set in.
But in terms of the usc colors, changing gold would be pro USC, their official colors are Cardinal and Gold, like UCLA's official colors are blue and gold.
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Post by tramfan on Apr 19, 2014 14:55:48 GMT -8
Why not keep the existing Gold line maybe at a lower frequency and add the Expo and Blue line as currently planned? I do not know if there's a lot of ridership from Pasadena to East LA but having two different lines on one segment only increases diversity.
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Post by gatewaygent on Apr 20, 2014 18:34:06 GMT -8
Hey TramFan, as someone that periodically rides the Gold Line from Atlantic Station to Memorial Park Station, I can attest to low ridership from East L.A. to Pasadena. It's almost comical to bare witness to the LRV practically emptying at LAUS of East L.A. riders and refilling with Pasadena riders. I've also witnessed several riders boarding at Lil Tokyo Station and exiting in South Pasadena and Pasadena. To me it speaks volumes on how people are using the current Gold Line. The fact that it will get split into an Azusa-Long Beach Line and an East L.A.-Santa Monica Line is just destiny. Of course, since no routing modulation has not been negated to date, there could be a Santa Monica-Azusa Line and it might be very useful. But let's start with the basics and go from there.
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Post by fissure on Apr 20, 2014 18:46:47 GMT -8
That adds a good amount of complexity (interlining 3 different movements that split and join at the same point) while not doing much to improve things. It will be a cross-platform transfer at Little Tokyo and frequent enough to not be much of a problem even if they don't sync the arrival times perfectly.
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Post by joemagruder on Apr 20, 2014 19:30:45 GMT -8
Will the Little Tokyo platform be a center platform?
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Post by rubbertoe on Apr 24, 2014 11:44:00 GMT -8
Board approved the contract award for the connector today: thesource.metro.net/2014/04/24/metro-board-approves-927-million-contract-for-construction-of-regional-connector-project/And also decided to add the very necessary higher level to the 2nd/Hope station: The Board also approved a motion by Board Member Don Knabe authorizing Metro CEO Art Leahy to add an upper level and pedestrian bridge at the Connector’s 2nd/Hope Street Station to better connect the station to Grand Avenue (2nd/Hope is down hill from Grand) and to secure funding for it, including an elevator and/or escalator. The motion asks for the upper level and bridge be incorporated into scope and project budget.
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Post by bzcat on Apr 24, 2014 15:51:56 GMT -8
Will the Little Tokyo platform be a center platform? All the stations in the regional connectors are single platform
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Post by bzcat on Apr 24, 2014 15:52:15 GMT -8
removed duplicate posts
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Post by gatewaygent on Apr 25, 2014 20:36:40 GMT -8
Nearside...I thought so. They'd have to dig/bore the tunnels deeper to build a mezzanine that leads to a center platform, wouldn't they?
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Post by metrocenter on Apr 28, 2014 7:13:57 GMT -8
Board approved the contract award for the connector today: thesource.metro.net/2014/04/24/metro-board-approves-927-million-contract-for-construction-of-regional-connector-project/And also decided to add the very necessary higher level to the 2nd/Hope station: The Board also approved a motion by Board Member Don Knabe authorizing Metro CEO Art Leahy to add an upper level and pedestrian bridge at the Connector’s 2nd/Hope Street Station to better connect the station to Grand Avenue (2nd/Hope is down hill from Grand) and to secure funding for it, including an elevator and/or escalator. The motion asks for the upper level and bridge be incorporated into scope and project budget.I'm back from New York (having rode their fantastic subway system), and so glad to see this news! Approval of the contract is in itself a huge milestone. And Knabe's motion to try and add the upper level at 2nd/Hope is a welcome surprise. Now hopefully in the next year or so I will be able to get out there with my camera and start taking some good contruction photos.
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Post by metrocenter on Jun 4, 2014 12:35:55 GMT -8
In the case by Flower Street business interests vs. Metro on the Regional Connection, we have a ruling AGAINST Metro, albeit a fairly narrow one. The court found that Metro did not adequately explain why it chose cut-and-cover for Flower Street, over bored tunnel. All other claims against Metro were DENIED. Metro must now amend the FEIR to explain its decision to use cut-and-cover, and to acknowledge the impacts of that alternative. However, work on the Regional Connector does not have to stop while Metro does this. The judge is requiring Metro and the plaintiffs to meet and produce a joint statement about how they will proceed in the next two weeks (by June 20). Articles:
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Post by bzcat on Jun 4, 2014 13:25:02 GMT -8
Metro will now have to pay these guys... but at least it won't slow down the construction.
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Post by JerardWright on Jun 5, 2014 15:33:56 GMT -8
Metro will now have to pay these guys... but at least it won't slow down the construction. Metro doesn't have to pay anyone, they just have to better explain other alternatives and why they will not work to construct the tunnel for Regional Connector compared to Cut-Cover. Things such as ground line, topography, width and depth of TBM, ability to seismically tie in one tunnel design with the other, etc. Think of this as a supplement to the EIR. To dot I's and cross T's
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Post by bzcat on Jun 6, 2014 8:55:52 GMT -8
But the plaintiff can appeal if they don't like the explanation, which everyone can predict will be the outcome. Unless of course Metro agrees to pay them for the right to construct this section with preferred cut-and-cover method. This was all about the money from the beginning and we are just entering the money settlement stage of this kabuki theater act. Bonaventure came out right and said they will consider monetary damage settlement for what they say was going to be "lost revenue" due to construction before the EIR lawsuit was filed.
The judge's ruling weakened Bonaventure's hand a bit in terms of likely settlement amount but gave them a relative strong hand to continue pressing for some money to make this go away. Metro may play hardball like they did with Expo line and drag it out. Or they may fold like they did with Gold Line rail yard and just pay the guys to go away.
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Post by JerardWright on Jun 6, 2014 10:03:00 GMT -8
But the plaintiff can appeal if they don't like the explanation, which everyone can predict will be the outcome. Unless of course Metro agrees to pay them for the right to construct this section with preferred cut-and-cover method. This was all about the money from the beginning and we are just entering the money settlement stage of this kabuki theater act. Bonaventure came out right and said they will consider monetary damage settlement for what they say was going to be "lost revenue" due to construction before the EIR lawsuit was filed. Of course that is always going to be the case. I see the opposite. Because if they show through the construction methods that each one has an added cost with an added impact this will benefit Metro and no new money will be received.
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Post by bzcat on Jul 1, 2014 16:36:46 GMT -8
Did the settlement talk miss the June 20 deadline?
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Post by thanks4goingmetro on Nov 11, 2014 9:23:10 GMT -8
I know the regional connector will have a flat junction, but my question is: Will the regional connector have a wye or will be a branched?
This comes to mind for flexibility to respond for special service need or to later reconfigure based on ridership changes.
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Post by bzcat on Nov 11, 2014 11:02:25 GMT -8
I know the regional connector will have a flat junction, but my question is: Will the regional connector have a wye or will be a branched? This comes to mind for flexibility to respond for special service need or to later reconfigure based on ridership changes. Are you talking about the Little Tokyo junction? We talked about on back on page 27 of this thread. The surface track from East LA to Union Station will be preserved so technically we can branch the line but operationally, the legacy track will probably only be used to shuttle empty trains from the Monrovia or Chinatown yard to the eastern terminus of E Line (East LA to Santa Monica). This thread talks about the likely service pattern, including branch options: transittalk.proboards.com/thread/828/pasadena-culver-cityThe only one that is not likely to see revenue operation is the current Gold Line pattern (East LA to Pasadena). All others are on the table: Azusa-Long Beach, Azusa-Santa Monica, East LA-Santa Monica, East LA-Long Beach.
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Post by joshuanickel on Nov 11, 2014 12:25:10 GMT -8
I know the regional connector will have a flat junction, but my question is: Will the regional connector have a wye or will be a branched? This comes to mind for flexibility to respond for special service need or to later reconfigure based on ridership changes. Are you talking about the Little Tokyo junction? We talked about on back on page 27 of this thread. The surface track from East LA to Union Station will be preserved so technically we can branch the line but operationally, the legacy track will probably only be used to shuttle empty trains from the Monrovia or Chinatown yard to the eastern terminus of E Line (East LA to Santa Monica). This thread talks about the likely service pattern, including branch options: transittalk.proboards.com/thread/828/pasadena-culver-cityThe only one that is not likely to see revenue operation is the current Gold Line pattern (East LA to Pasadena). All others are on the table: Azusa-Long Beach, Azusa-Santa Monica, East LA-Santa Monica, East LA-Long Beach. Unless things have changed, the existing tracks and station will not be kept. The plan according to the FEIR is to temporally have the gold line operate on a single track during construction, but once construction is finished, there will be something that is similar to the expo/blue line junction except this will be grade separated where there is no direct access between pasadena and east la. Part of the issue is the required retaining wall needed from when it comes off the 101 bridge down in to the tunnel going from a 3.17% grade on the bridge ramp to a 5.91% grade in to the tunnel. Here is the link to the drawings in the FEIR: Appendix 1 Locally Preferred Alternative Drawings Part 1 of 2Appendix 1 Locally Preferred Alternative Drawings Part 2 of 2
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Post by thanks4goingmetro on Nov 11, 2014 14:03:06 GMT -8
Thanks for the details bzcat and joshuanickel!
I had on my mind with the closing of LA State Historic Park to the large concerts that have called it home in recent years if there might be feasible to have trains from Union Station to Atlantic Station (like today) whether the special Whittier Narrows event shuttle is. Obviously, this is a very special and niche case that isn't really hugely in the public need. Thanks again for entertaining and answering my question!
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Post by rubbertoe on Nov 11, 2014 15:12:38 GMT -8
I know the regional connector will have a flat junction, but my question is: Will the regional connector have a wye or will be a branched? This comes to mind for flexibility to respond for special service need or to later reconfigure based on ridership changes. Are you talking about the Little Tokyo junction? We talked about on back on page 27 of this thread. The surface track from East LA to Union Station will be preserved so technically we can branch the line but operationally, the legacy track will probably only be used to shuttle empty trains from the Monrovia or Chinatown yard to the eastern terminus of E Line (East LA to Santa Monica). This thread talks about the likely service pattern, including branch options: transittalk.proboards.com/thread/828/pasadena-culver-cityThe only one that is not likely to see revenue operation is the current Gold Line pattern (East LA to Pasadena). All others are on the table: Azusa-Long Beach, Azusa-Santa Monica, East LA-Santa Monica, East LA-Long Beach. Bzcat, Are you sure that the tracks from the current Little Tokyo station to Union Station and also East LA will be preserved? When I look at the construction drawings, the new tracks coming toward Union Station are East of the current station on the Mangrove Property. But those tracks will then have to come up and connect to the current bridge over the 101 freeway. For the current track(s) to remain physically connected, they would have to have a junction so that trains coming from Union Station would have the ability to actually switch from the normal Regional Connector route and go to the existing Little Tokyo station. You would also need the same connection of the current ground level tracks on the section that then goes to East LA. Also, do we know for sure what will actually happen to the current Little Tokyo station? The FEIR didn't mention anything concerning that. RT
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