Post by spokker on Jul 30, 2009 19:06:44 GMT -8
Since ARTIC is going to be the southern terminus of phase 1 of the high speed rail network, I guess I'll put this here.
Nothing really new in the way of information at this meeting, but I felt I had some interesting conversations with a few people, and I got to argue about high speed rail with a councilman from the City of Orange (it was a civil argument of course). Think of this as a kind of "trip report."
-My first conversation was with a project manager with the OCTA. I told her that I support the project and that I understood that it was a long term thing, but I wanted to express concern over the bus service cuts. I asked her if bus service is planned to be restored by the time this facility opens.
She said that bus service is a priority, including BRT and station link service. I told her that I wanted to emphasize that a project such as this really needs basic bus service so that the people who work there, who aren't taking the high speed rail or maglev or things like that, are able to get to work. That was just one of my goals, to at least put out there that bus service in Orange County is very important in addition to all of these glamorous projects. Who knows if she cared or not, but I put similar feelings on my comment card.
-At one of the displays was a guy talking to a representative. He was very concerned about the design of the facility. The representative told him that they were not even at the 15% design stage yet and that they didn't have all the answers.
He started to become disappointed that he wasn't getting answers and she explained the early scoping process. He wasn't quite getting it and I actually interjected and explained to him, very politely, that the point of this meeting was to write down all of those questions you just asked her and submit it to them so they know what your concerns are. He was kind of like, whatever, and went away.
I actually ended up explaining to people at the various displays what ARTIC and the fixed guideway project were all about. I also filled in the details for people on the high speed rail project. I think the OCTA should have cut me a check
-At the same display I had an argument with the Orange Councilman about high speed rail. He and another gentleman were talking about the project and I asked them what they thought of it. The other gentleman said he was very much in support but the Orange Councilman was there because he was very concerned over traffic, and also said, "Why should I pay for a high speed rail line that I won't use?"
Hoo-boy. I gave him an earful, about car subsidies and how trains can be a public good and that we can't really widen freeways anymore than we have and all that stuff. You know, all those nerdy talking points.
He mentioned something about Amtrak never making a profit and I told him, "Well, the road in front of your house doesn't make a profit. The interstate highway system never made a profit, but aren't we glad the federal government bore the brunt of this huge capital expenditure and we have this incredible system today?" He then sort of shrugged and had a look that screamed, "I gotta get away from this guy." It was great. I must assure you, though, it was a very civil conversation.
-The next guy was kind of a character. He looked like a real working class guy. He was there because he is a land owner in Anaheim who was following a similar project in another part of Anaheim decades ago, and wanted to know more about this one. We chatted a bit about various issues, and he told me something I thought was very interesting.
Disney wanted to take his land and a bunch of other land that people had houses on northwest of Disneyland. They didn't like the offers they were getting. What they did was get together and incorporate the neighborhood into a single company or something and basically resisted Disney with all of its might and they backed off. I don't know all the details, I just thought it was funny.
He said that they wanted to put a train station on this land, and I said I never heard of that. I'm going to have to look that one up.
He was generally supportive of ARTIC, but said he didn't think they had enough space for all the stuff they wanted to build. He actually started asking me questions about all these projects and I explained them the best I could.
-I talked to an employee of Parsons Brinckerhoff that was there and he lent a lot of insight into the engineering process. One of his concerns that I overheard was flooding. He said that the station was below the floodline or something, and that if the Santa Ana river flooded the facility might be screwed. We talked about that for a bit.
Then I asked him what he thought of people who accuse design firms of "over-designing" to milk taxpayer dollars. I mentioned the California High Speed Rail project and The Big Dig. He was taken aback by that and explained the whole process. He said there are some people who do exhibit bad behavior but for the most part his company is on the up and up.
I asked him why construction costs have gone up so much, and he said in the last two years they have actually gone down. He said that the competition among design firms is so fierce out there that companies are eating into their own profits to outbid each other on projects. Very interesting guy.
Anyway, there was nothing new at this meeting that wasn't already online, but a lot of people showed up and a lot of concerns, suggestions and questions were flying.
Nothing really new in the way of information at this meeting, but I felt I had some interesting conversations with a few people, and I got to argue about high speed rail with a councilman from the City of Orange (it was a civil argument of course). Think of this as a kind of "trip report."
-My first conversation was with a project manager with the OCTA. I told her that I support the project and that I understood that it was a long term thing, but I wanted to express concern over the bus service cuts. I asked her if bus service is planned to be restored by the time this facility opens.
She said that bus service is a priority, including BRT and station link service. I told her that I wanted to emphasize that a project such as this really needs basic bus service so that the people who work there, who aren't taking the high speed rail or maglev or things like that, are able to get to work. That was just one of my goals, to at least put out there that bus service in Orange County is very important in addition to all of these glamorous projects. Who knows if she cared or not, but I put similar feelings on my comment card.
-At one of the displays was a guy talking to a representative. He was very concerned about the design of the facility. The representative told him that they were not even at the 15% design stage yet and that they didn't have all the answers.
He started to become disappointed that he wasn't getting answers and she explained the early scoping process. He wasn't quite getting it and I actually interjected and explained to him, very politely, that the point of this meeting was to write down all of those questions you just asked her and submit it to them so they know what your concerns are. He was kind of like, whatever, and went away.
I actually ended up explaining to people at the various displays what ARTIC and the fixed guideway project were all about. I also filled in the details for people on the high speed rail project. I think the OCTA should have cut me a check
-At the same display I had an argument with the Orange Councilman about high speed rail. He and another gentleman were talking about the project and I asked them what they thought of it. The other gentleman said he was very much in support but the Orange Councilman was there because he was very concerned over traffic, and also said, "Why should I pay for a high speed rail line that I won't use?"
Hoo-boy. I gave him an earful, about car subsidies and how trains can be a public good and that we can't really widen freeways anymore than we have and all that stuff. You know, all those nerdy talking points.
He mentioned something about Amtrak never making a profit and I told him, "Well, the road in front of your house doesn't make a profit. The interstate highway system never made a profit, but aren't we glad the federal government bore the brunt of this huge capital expenditure and we have this incredible system today?" He then sort of shrugged and had a look that screamed, "I gotta get away from this guy." It was great. I must assure you, though, it was a very civil conversation.
-The next guy was kind of a character. He looked like a real working class guy. He was there because he is a land owner in Anaheim who was following a similar project in another part of Anaheim decades ago, and wanted to know more about this one. We chatted a bit about various issues, and he told me something I thought was very interesting.
Disney wanted to take his land and a bunch of other land that people had houses on northwest of Disneyland. They didn't like the offers they were getting. What they did was get together and incorporate the neighborhood into a single company or something and basically resisted Disney with all of its might and they backed off. I don't know all the details, I just thought it was funny.
He said that they wanted to put a train station on this land, and I said I never heard of that. I'm going to have to look that one up.
He was generally supportive of ARTIC, but said he didn't think they had enough space for all the stuff they wanted to build. He actually started asking me questions about all these projects and I explained them the best I could.
-I talked to an employee of Parsons Brinckerhoff that was there and he lent a lot of insight into the engineering process. One of his concerns that I overheard was flooding. He said that the station was below the floodline or something, and that if the Santa Ana river flooded the facility might be screwed. We talked about that for a bit.
Then I asked him what he thought of people who accuse design firms of "over-designing" to milk taxpayer dollars. I mentioned the California High Speed Rail project and The Big Dig. He was taken aback by that and explained the whole process. He said there are some people who do exhibit bad behavior but for the most part his company is on the up and up.
I asked him why construction costs have gone up so much, and he said in the last two years they have actually gone down. He said that the competition among design firms is so fierce out there that companies are eating into their own profits to outbid each other on projects. Very interesting guy.
Anyway, there was nothing new at this meeting that wasn't already online, but a lot of people showed up and a lot of concerns, suggestions and questions were flying.