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Post by Gokhan on Oct 7, 2009 18:20:14 GMT -8
What does it take to build rail transit through an affluent neighborhood in Los Angeles? Watch this an-hour-long series of video clips shot at the final planning meeting for the Metro Expo Line, a light-rail line to be built on the old abandoned Pacific Electric Santa Monica Air Line railroad right-of-way, which will connect Downtown Los Angeles to the Westside of Los Angeles and Pacific Ocean at Santa Monica. The group Neighbors for Smart Rail (NFSR) lead by the affluent Cheviot Hills Homeowners' Association and other affluent Westside homeowners' associations joins forces with Fix Expo, a special-interest group from a minority neighborhood in South Los Angeles, through which the abandoned railroad right-of-way cuts as well, and they vow for lawsuits. Such opposition by the affluent and special-interest groups has prevented the use of this old abandoned railroad right-of-way for decades, but the Expo Light-Rail Line is finally becoming a reality. The series of clips starts with the very instructive presentation about the project, continues with a video simulation of Phase 2, and then public comments from Fix Expo and Neighbors for Smart Rail leaders as well as individuals follow.
The video is a true classic of NIMBYs and NIMBYism in America. The meeting was held in Cheviot Hills, Los Angeles, California, at 6:30 PM on October 5, 2009. The affluent neighborhood of Cheviot Hills has long been the epicenter of the opposition to the Expo Line.
The first four clips are the half-hour-long presentation by Stephen Polechronis, Vice President of AECOM, the consulting firm for the environmental study of the Expo Line. He is the head of the consultant team.
Part 1:
Part 2:
Part 3:
Part 4:
The next clip is a very nice video simulation of Phase 2, as well as a real footage of the Metro Pasadena Gold Line:
Finally the last four clips are the the outrageous and disturbing yet entertaining public comments.
Some individual supporters at the beginning:
NFSR comes next. Terri Tippit, the veteran Westside neighborhood politician, Head of the West of Westwood Homeowners' Association and at times the President of the Westside Neighborhood Council, is the President of Neighbors for Smart Rail (NFSR). Collen Mason Heller of the Cheviot Hills Homeowners' Association is the Vice President of NFSR. Her husband Larry Heller is the attorney for NFSR. NFSR has been collecting a lot of money in order to launch a lawsuit within 30 days of the certification by the board of the Expo Authority of the final environmental-impact report on the first Thursday of January:
Next come outrageous talks and acts by Fix Expo. Damien Goodmon is the leader of Fix Expo and Clint Simmons, who owns a house on Exposition Blvd, has been on the opposition from Day One:
Finally some more outrageous comments and acts by the individual opposition, who own homes in the Cheviot Hills and Rancho Park area:
My 60-minute MiniDV tape ended at about 62 minutes.
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Post by kenalpern on Oct 7, 2009 22:14:33 GMT -8
Well, I'd like to thank you, Gokhan, for that effort--it does appear like a lot of work on your part to both record and post it, for which you deserve credit.
While I think the polemic used by Damien will distract from the legitimate points he has to make (as it has in the past), I waited for the "outrageous" comments and acts from the opposition, but...
1) ...I heard very few truly NIMBY folks who said they didn't want it no way, no how as I'd heard for so many years
2) ...I heard some very legitimate complaints and concerns that, out of sincere curiosity or being a bit behind on the learning curve, really deserve addressing by the Expo staff and in the Final EIR to either answer fair questions or to allay gut suspicions
3) ...I think the questions about whether the environmental benefits of the Expo Line would be undone by the car emissions from being queued up on Overland deserve answering--but more important, they need answering in the political atmosphere of L.A., where the City allows so much development that traffic and predicted traffic continue to explode and worsen because of City policy (which again bears repeating my principal concerns about West L.A. and the Expo Line lie with the failure of the City of L.A. to plan, not with the Expo Authority who's just doing their job)
4) ...even the guy tapping the bell (which at first I thought was over the top) would stop every few seconds to avoid being obnoxious, and made a few suggestions as to just letting the train go through on Military without the bells. This showed me he was not just in irrational opposition, but someone who wanted the train to go through--but without any unnecessary noise
Yes, there were plenty of red meat-loving, potshot-throwing folks in the general audience (who I personally can't take too seriously), but I wouldn't characterize the speakers as such. I think it'll be important to flesh out the true NIMBY's from those who want it to go through on the ROW...but with mitigations and concerns to be addressed.
...and I didn't hear the Venice/Sepulveda diversion being dredged up again, so I thought the concerns were pretty much on-topic.
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Post by Gokhan on Oct 7, 2009 22:27:51 GMT -8
Well... You are taking these people at their face value, Ken. We both know darn well that almost all of the opponents have one thing in mind: to kill the project! And what better way is there to achieve that than asking for an "underground" line, which would make the project go out of budget and create all sorts of inequalities and even dismantle the already built Phase 1? Only the naive fools (who otherwise support the line) get sucked into their underground card.
Their entire tactic is based on killing the line. They are the enemy of the Expo Line. Don't do the same mistake the American government does often, that is to side with our enemies for our interests. If you advocate for grade separation, don't friend NFSR and Fix Expo but advocate with the (true) supporters of the line.
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Post by rajacobs on Oct 7, 2009 23:52:15 GMT -8
I thought threats and accusations to staff were out of line and Damien's anger detracted from his presentation. But legitimate environmental concerns exist, not the least of which is anticipated traffic congestion on Overland.
Of course, underground is out of the economic ballpark and the suggestion is obstructionist. But as much as maintaining a quiet neighborhood, I also think about the riders and above ground is preferable here. Additionally I'd love to see sound walls as unobtrusive as possible to offer riders a view.
Debate on various points raised is useful. I dream of deriving consensus at the end of the day...
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Post by kenalpern on Oct 8, 2009 6:21:56 GMT -8
I agree with rajacobs entirely, here. I know of plenty of Expo supporters, and even a few opponents, that are focusing entirely on the TRAFFIC (and neighborhood preservation with respect to noise, visual impact, loss of potential bike lanes, desire of a park, fear of City overdevelopment, etc.) who are talking more and more about the elevated option.
I think that the concerns about "the Great Wall of L.A." that Darrell has brought up are pretty legit, but increasingly I hear whispers more and more about elevating it over Overland and Westwood from both Expo proponents and opponents alike. These are folks I take much more seriously than those who want it all underground, except for one key aspect...
..which is that both you and I looked seriously into the underground option for years---FOR YEARS!!!---and we've spent a lot more time agonizing and wrapping our brains around this issue. Isn't it only fair and compassionate to allow these "newbies" who've been focused on other things to have their time to achieve a learning curve as well?
I think it's irresponsible of both the City and the Authority to try to slam this through at-grade in the current fashion NOT because I'm anti-Expo, but because it will INVITE lawsuits and delays to the line. If the costs of underground construction (in light of the planned underground segments of the Crenshaw Line and current Pasadena Gold Line) are prohibitive, then daylight those costs! (pun intended)
We might discover that Westwood-adjacent residents and Overland commuters and school parents choose the at-grade option with mitigations after the debate and deliberations and pros and cons are finally brought to light. Just because concerns are raised doesn't mean that those raising the concerns are NIMBY's.
I think that both Fix Expo and the Authority (which has used Fix Expo to its disadvantage, and to the disadvantage of the Westside) have entirely warped the idea of Environmental Justice, and we are all ignoring the role that the City of Los Angeles has to play.
I personally think that Steve and Gaby et al are a pretty good bunch of people, and I both like and respect them personally--but the political leadership that they must serve are making this by far more difficult than it need be.
In short, and in summary, I'd really, REALLY like the financial and legal and technical alternatives for every single at-grade or grade-separated option. Not after the lawsuits and the PUC-demanded supplemental EIR and a few extra years of delay...NOW!!!
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Post by Gokhan on Oct 8, 2009 9:29:05 GMT -8
So, the train will cause a delay of fifteen to 30 seconds on Overland, as the study of the LADOT and Expo shows. And it will cause five seconds of light to moderate noise when it goes by a house every five minutes. This will have an impact to a person who lives in the neighborhood and therefore the person is opposed to it.
Let's not build the train then. But, to be fair, we should ban that person from driving next to any house in Los Angeles, driving through any traffic light across Los Angeles, and driving on any freeway in Los Angeles, where there are houses in nearby. This is because this person would generate noise with his car to the house (and cars do make more noise than the trains) and hinder the traffic through an intersection when the light is green for him/her. Also, let's underground all streets where cars drive (with underground grade separations of course) and build sound walls next to every street. After all, we need to be fair to everyone, don't we? We can't just make a favor to the people on the railroad right-of-way by not building a train. We should also get rid of their cars; so, in turn they don't harm others either.
This is the usual ignorance, narrow-mindedness, selfishness, and stupidity of people. It's always about "me," "my neighborhood," "my benefit," without using that brain a little bit and seeing the whole perspective.
Groups like Fix Expo and NFSR have been trying to turn their gross stupidity into fact by repeating it many, many times. This is what NIMBYism has always been about. It's good that we live in the Internet age and people can now see what they actually are. Their idiotic exploitation of children, race, free speech, litigation, and other sensitive issues no more.
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Post by kenalpern on Oct 8, 2009 10:23:28 GMT -8
I don't deny that Fix Expo and NFSR have gone waaaaaay over the top too many times--and it's hurt their credibility. Yet the loss of street parking, the increase and restriping of lanes at a time when the Westside is focusing on creating a bike lane network (this is a very big issue right now during the West L.A. Community Plan Update), the widening of streets and potential increase of traffic...and a City of L.A. that is doing no planning to prepare for this line (unlike S.M. and C.C., which have done an enormous amount of planning).
I again implore you, Gokhan, to distinguish between those who are truly NIMBY's or who have untenable ideas.....vs. those who raise legitimate concerns and who really want this line.
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Post by kenalpern on Oct 8, 2009 10:25:56 GMT -8
I also urge you, Gokhan, and everyone on this board, that at least the community will be discussing how to mitigate and plan for the route, instead of an untenable argument about which route the line should take. Venice/Sepulveda and Venice/Lincoln are virtually dead issues, so at least we're truly moving in the right direction.
As someone who played a major role in ensuring this line wouldn't be a Busway slammed down Venice/Sepulveda, I think we are making some progress. Don't let the present and future challenges let that awareness of the progress slip away.
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Post by Gokhan on Oct 8, 2009 11:00:25 GMT -8
The video of the Expo Line final planning meeting in Cheviot Hills is now available as a single playlist on YouTube.
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Post by erict on Oct 8, 2009 11:33:58 GMT -8
All of this (lawsuits, NIMBY's - legitimate or not, etc.) is going to delay the Expo line and all future rail lines in Los Angeles. The glacial pace of rail expansion will slow even more (except for the westside subway). I knew that west LA would be particularly difficult to complete. It makes you wonder how they do things so quickly in other countries. Of course, they don't have to have community input in Beijing.
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Post by Gokhan on Oct 8, 2009 11:47:01 GMT -8
What the hell with the lawsuits. They will not go anywhere. They will be thrown out as soon as they are filed if they are filed. They will be just a waste of time and money for the NIMBYs if they are filed. Not only that but they will make the NIMBYs look even worse if they are filed.
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Post by Jason Saunders on Oct 8, 2009 13:56:36 GMT -8
Thanks Gokhan for videotapping and posting. I had no idea that people from Cheviot hills were that vehement. In regards to the comments: - Damian's, You donated to to the Mayor's and Jan Perry's campaign (curbed L.A. say's it was $250) Like $250 is really going to gain a lot of influence. -The lady who said that traffic had tripled in the last two years is incredible. - The gentlemen with a cowbell was very effective. The presentation, minus the video clips, is available here: www.buildexpo.org/phase2/Expo%20Phase%202%20October%202009%20Community%20Mtgs%20Presentation.pdf
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Post by metrocenter on Oct 8, 2009 14:10:57 GMT -8
I agree with Ken and others, who say that while some of the complaints are simply NIMBYist and obstructionist, it is foolish to act as if concerns such as traffic, pollution, noise and parking are non-issues. They are real, especially to those who live in the neighborhood.
I happen to think these negative impacts, if properly mitigated, are worth the benefits to the region of building the rail line. But if we continue to act as if the issues are purely rhetorical, we will create even more NIMBYs.
The best way to resolve these issues is to engage those open-minded members of the local community and see if what kind of solution exists that can satisfy some of that community's concerns.
BTW, none of what I am saying here contradicts my position on Farmdale. In that case, the demands for design changes came after the EIR process, after the process of public input and after approval and funding by public officials.
Does the timing of the Farmdale complaints make the complaints illegitimate? Yes, I think so. That community had their chance to come up with a cogent argument, lobby representatives, etc., prior to start of construction, and they did nothing. You can't wait around, and then expect others to still take you seriously.
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Post by Gokhan on Oct 8, 2009 14:29:18 GMT -8
I agree with Ken and others, who say that while some of the complaints are simply NIMBYist and obstructionist, it is foolish to act as if concerns such as traffic, pollution, noise and parking are non-issues. They are real, especially to those who live in the neighborhood. And these issues have already been addressed by the Final Environmental-Impact Report. The details of how much front lawn is going to be taken, how many parking spaces will be removed, how many trees will be removed, how high the sound walls should be are design details that will be worked out with the community during the design - build stage, starting in February. There will always be a compromise, such as the visual problems of the sound walls versus their sound-absorption ability, parking removal vs. tree removal, etc. Some of these compromises are dictated by the economics but not all. Let's again not have a double standard against rail. We are all polluting the environment, endangering others, creating noise, impeding the traffic, contributing to the global warming, etc. by doing our everyday thing that we take as granted, that is driving a private vehicle. The neighborhood would have less noise and traffic if they removed 1% of the automobiles in the neighborhood rather than not building the Expo Line or going out of our way to mitigate it.
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Post by kenalpern on Oct 8, 2009 21:12:26 GMT -8
I think you'll find that if we looked into the enormous amount of mitigation and compromise for the last, northbound portion of the 405 carpool lane/widening project between the 10 and 101 freeways, you'll see similar controversies and compromises that were and are ongoing.
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Post by Gokhan on Oct 8, 2009 21:30:03 GMT -8
I think you'll find that if we looked into the enormous amount of mitigation and compromise for the last, northbound portion of the 405 carpool lane/widening project between the 10 and 101 freeways, you'll see similar controversies and compromises that were and are ongoing. Well, if you want to compare a 200-ft-wide freeway with constantly buzzing and smog-emitting cars to a 25-ft-wide two-track light-rail that has trains on it for five seconds every five minutes...
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Post by Gokhan on Oct 8, 2009 21:31:45 GMT -8
Here is one of the comments I received for the video:
"I used to not even know what NIMBY's were so I asked Google and found out. I watched a bit of the videos and know I wouldn't last 5 minutes in one of those meetings. I am sure they would get along without my input - but don't they have any life at all, outside of bitching? A bunch of territorial bigots and homophobes is what they sound like to me."
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Post by Gokhan on Oct 8, 2009 23:02:58 GMT -8
Here is one of the comments I received for the video: "I used to not even know what NIMBY's were so I asked Google and found out. I watched a bit of the videos and know I wouldn't last 5 minutes in one of those meetings. I am sure they would get along without my input - but don't they have any life at all, outside of bitching? A bunch of territorial bigots and homophobes is what they sound like to me."Reflecting on this guy's comments, I now remember that I almost threw up in the last Cheviot Hills Homeowners' Association meeting I attended. That's when I stopped attending these meetings. Their behavior and comments in the Expo meetings is nothing compared to what they say in their own meetings. I remember one young lady referring to Palms in a disgusted manner as "the neighborhood to the south of us" during the discussion of crime. And, yet, Palms is one of the safest neighborhoods in LA, probably safer than Cheviot Hills! Then at one point a discussion of homeless people sleeping in their car under the freeway on Motor and illegal immigrants selling fruits on the corner of the street started, and it kept going on and on and on for hours. That was the first time in my life I almost threw up at the lack of empathy by people. Of course, I wouldn't generalize it to everyone in Cheviot Hills at all; in fact, there are a lot of good folks there, but there are quite a few bigots there as well. Again, (1) this is just an observation of a few bigots in a group of several dozen people, and (2) I wouldn't say that all NIMBYs are bigots or all bigots are NIMBYs. Nevertheless, the folks in the Cheviot Hills area who are truly concerned about the impacts only, not the people the line will bring to their neighborhood, are not the ones who get up there and keep going like an Energizer bunny on why the line sucks. The truly concerned folks who want the line actually cooperate with the folks who are building the line. These are Light-Rail for Cheviot folks, and don't take it incorrectly -- not all of their members are satisfied with everything what the Expo Authority offers, but they have one thing in common: they all want the line. The NFSR folks have one thing in common as well: they all don't want the line. Those who think that NFSR is after mitigation are being very naive. One can easily turn into an armchair transit advocate on this discussion board, but I do actually attend these meetings and interact with these people, and I know what is really going on and what these people really want. The entire goal of NFSR is to stop the Expo Line from happening. They will never cooperate with the Expo Line on mitigation and they won't be satisfied even if they build an elevated line between Overland and Sepulveda. So, it's an absolute waste of time even thinking that you can address these people's concerns and work with them. If you want more mitigation, at least cooperate with people who actually want the line. And stop blogging and start coming to the meetings and talking (and, more importantly, listening) to the people in actual one-on-one conversations. That is, get off your armchair once in a while. I guess, in these modern days, armchair means computer chair. OK, just kidding, ;D blog as much as you want. I'm the biggest blogger on this discussion board anyway with 994 posts. LOL PS: And if you are wondering what Fix Expo's motivation is, just watch the video segment of the Fix Expo comments posted above. If you know a little about human psychology and/or sociology (rhetorical question -- I'm sure you do), you will figure it out.
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Post by kenalpern on Oct 9, 2009 5:24:33 GMT -8
...and for those of us who are part of LRFC, and who are not part of NFSR, and who are concerned about the worsening of automobiles' impacts on the neighborhood because the line isn't being mitigated and the area is being overdeveloped (not because of the Authority, but because of the City of L.A.)...are we just all naive and NIMBY?
I again want to thank you for all your work, Gokhan, and for videoing this meeting, but there are those of us who have endured withering abuse from the true NIMBY's who tried to stop this line for the past 10-15 years. We fought them, endured the ostracizing from many of our neighbors and got the politicians and the community to favor the line and to pursue it as a LRT on the ROW.
However, the same neighborhood councils, CD11 Transportation Advisory Committee and the like that came out in favor of Expo are also raising their concerns--in part to the Authority but especially to the City of L.A. that will use this wonderful line to awful, overdevelopment purposes that will actually make traffic/infrastructure wear and tear even worse. You just don't see this with C.C. and S.M.
I again invite you, after so many years, to play a role in your Neighborhood Council to get the full and comprehensive view of what is going on with the City of L.A. and how it cannot be trusted to use this line to reduce traffic and provide better pedestrian, bicycle and bus alternatives than what we've got now...to say nothing of providing more parks, environmental improvements and quality of life endeavours.
You're not going to see me join forces with the screamers and NIMBY's who no one can or should take seriously; neither will any of those who (and I'm not certain you've taken the time to know these people, who don't post on this Board) made this line possible and who've fought for this line for many years before you joined forces with us (a welcome addition, to be sure). These others sacrificed and suffered at the hands of their neighbors when the going was much, much tougher than it now is and when momentum was NOT on our side.
Just as Darrell played and plays a role in Planning in Santa Monica, and these others and myself do the same in L.A., I urge you to do the same. To look at this line from the myopic view of promoting whatever the Authority and the politically-arm-twisted LADOT agrees to has the dangerous risk of reducing your credibility as much as the myopically-opposed NIMBY's who fight this line for all the wrong reasons.
Keep up the good work, Gokhan, but please feel free to take advice from a non-bomb thrower who's fought the fight to bring the Expo Line, the Green Line to LAX and the Downtown Connector back to relevance: never forget that you might not always have all the answers, and never forget that even the opposition will have a kernel of truth in their arguments that should be ignored only at your peril.
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Post by rajacobs on Oct 9, 2009 10:24:49 GMT -8
When Phase II is built, I can only imagine that housing density will increase (due to transit access), traffic density will worsen (due to greater numbers of people and minor delays at crossing), and Expo will become a lifeline for the Westside, not to mention those from other parts of LA who frequent the Westside. ...and note, if Expo Phase II is not built, we'll all suffer the consequence of Santa Monica becoming increasingly inaccessible and the enclaves of Cheviot Hills, Palms Rancho Park, etc. becoming hemmed in on all sides by traffic jams with no alternative like the train, but for walking. I believe the issue must be "how" to build it, not whether. The intention must be to build the line expeditiously. Essential to that intention is effective public assessment of construction alternatives (aerial vs. at-ground vs. underground, as noted in posts above) based on impact analyses and comparative costs. Sometimes an image conveys more to me than an argument. The stretch between Overland and Military is the key image for me. How should the train go through the ROW without dividing the community? ...Because how the train passes through the ROW right there links to the questions of 1) how will it cross Overland, 2) how will it cross Westwood, and 3) how will it cross Sepulveda? I think there may be only 4 alternatives: - Underground is a difficult, expensive proposition that I'd like to see the numbers on but that I don't anticipate would work.
- At ground with sound walls would be an eyesore, though perhaps quiet.
- At ground with minimal earthen berms is better but with some sound.
- Aerial, as it will be over National and Washington would preserve green space and potentially turn the ROW into a commons, but at a cost--and wouldn't sound levels be higher?
Aren't these ALL the possible alternatives (and still build the train)? Hand-wringing and accusation will accomplish nothing but misplaced fear, heightened tension, and obstruction of the much-needed end goal of increased transportation. The foolish pursuit of the Cheviot Hills Homeowners Assoc. will get nowhere and eventually serve only to alienate their neighbors because Expo does not directly affect these people! (They have Motor as a North-South artery too, not only Overland, not to mention easy eastward access to the I-10 freeway!) ...As a sidebar, Gokhan isn't the only one exasperated by the anti-Expo denizens of the Cheviot Hills Homeowners Assoc. Thank God many other rational folks live in Cheviot who don't conduct themselves obnoxiously. The neighbors I know give others the benefit of the doubt, drive for consensus and enjoy life rather than conflict. I do not believe that these loud-mouths, taped above, who may have undue influence in the HA, are in fact dominant in the community; nor do I believe they express the dominant values of the residents. So, let's get on with it and see that these 4 alternatives, together with any others, are adequately analyzed so that consensus can emerge around a single one.
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Post by kenalpern on Oct 9, 2009 15:37:30 GMT -8
I think that the approach that rajacobs describes will be much more successful than that of the Cheviot Hills Homeowners Association and NFSR, and I look forward to getting those that want to arrive at a solution with minimal acrimony up to the plate.
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Post by roadtrainer on Oct 9, 2009 17:40:46 GMT -8
>:(Lying NIMBY'S! :oWe got a new driver with us, while in training we drove by La Brea, and she went into fix Expo mode, The rail line is not right, tunnels for USC and Culver City but south Central was passed up, and even the lies about no fence around the high school, that expo is going to tear down the fence that separates the high school from the right a way and leave easy access for the high school students to walk upon the tracks and get run over by the trains. Now not only was I trying to un-indoctrinate her from No-Goodman's teachings, I Am trying to set her straight on Fix Expo lies! But she has listened to the Bull from No-goodman and it is going to take awhile! A question to all, How did No-Goodman get the idea that he and only he is 100% right on Light Rail and everybody who disagrees with him is just plain dumb?
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Post by Gokhan on Oct 13, 2009 18:29:45 GMT -8
Someone from NFSR posted a comment on YouTube on the video:
All I see here is a neighborhood refusing to be destroyed in the name of progress. Calling these people NIMBYS is the same sort of smear job as calling someone a Commie. This rail line, in it's existing plan, stinks to high heavens, and is built on phony numbers and rigged data. It will destroy quality of life in all of West L.A. These people aren't opposing Light Rail, they just want it built right. Which begs the question, what's your agenda?
Feel free to comment back on the video on YouTube yourselves:
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Post by Jason Saunders on Oct 19, 2009 18:24:47 GMT -8
Time lapse video of completed Expo Line.
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Post by mattapoisett on Oct 19, 2009 19:30:54 GMT -8
Time lapse video of completed Expo Line. And nary a grade crossing to be seen..... ;-)
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Post by tonyw79sfv on Oct 19, 2009 21:49:40 GMT -8
Yeah, it's surprising that of all the North American cities in the Pacific time zone aside from San Francisco, Vancouver BC has a better and well patronized transit system than their neighbor to the south, Seattle, Portland and us.
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Post by Gokhan on Oct 20, 2009 0:05:47 GMT -8
The Expo Line in Vancouver is a rapid-transit (fully grade-separated) line. The rapid-transit line in LA similar to it would be the Green Line. Except, the Expo Line, unlike the Green Line, uses crappy little Bombardier trains similar to monorail, and it's horribly overcrowded as a result, nothing to envy about. I would rather have a comfortable light-rail line like our Expo Line, instead of shaving off five minutes from the trip time to Santa Monica by eliminating all grade crossings.
Also remember that the only grade crossings which potentially slow the train are the lighted crossings. At gated crossings the train never slows down. And the lighted-crossing segments are only about 20% of the Expo Line.
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Post by mattapoisett on Oct 20, 2009 3:24:25 GMT -8
Except, the Expo Line, unlike the Green Line, uses crappy little Bombardier trains similar to monorail. .....Unlike the crappy AnsaldoBreda cars we are about to get. ;-) I rode Skytrain last year and it was pretty decent and unlike monorail, the trains can go as fast as 55 mph. Plus they had a more open feel and was easier to bring a bike onboard. Also remember that the only grade crossings which potentially slow the train are the lighted crossings. At gated crossings the train never slows down. And the lighted-crossing segments are only about 20% of the Expo Line. And those crossings will be the Albatross of this line. These are not insignificant crossings. Crenshaw, Western and Vermont are very busy. Even though the LRVs will be going slowly since they will be dealing with station stops, they will have to deal with traffic blocking the intersections. Anecdotal evidence has been put forth that this is already happening on the Gold Line Extension at Indiana and 1st. la.curbed.com/archives/2009/10/visiting_the_new_gold_line_extension_nearly_getting_hit_by_a_train.phpWe'll see how that affects operations on the line. I would rather have a comfortable light-rail line like our Expo Line, instead of shaving off five minutes from the trip time to Santa Monica by eliminating all grade crossings. The likelihood is the amount of time saved could have been as much as 30 minutes during rush hour [more like 15-20 during non-rush] especially with the Colorado alignment in Santa Monica. I have seen the estimated timetables, put out by metro and in these forums, have not have not taken seriously the environmental impacts to service. But I imagine that even if it takes an hour or more for a trip from Metro Center to Santa Monica it won't matter because its been built and it is sort of better than what exists now and even though anyone who is not a normal transit taker will not be wowed into taking it, it might be ok for some trips but not heavy duty commuting, unless there is no better choice. Will this lady replace her second car with the Expo Line for her commute? www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-traffictwo9-2008jun09,0,4524386.story Maybe
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Post by JerardWright on Oct 20, 2009 6:57:22 GMT -8
And those crossings will be the Albatross of this line. These are not insignificant crossings. Crenshaw, Western and Vermont are very busy. Even though the LRVs will be going slowly since they will be dealing with station stops, they will have to deal with traffic blocking the intersections. Anecdotal evidence has been put forth that this is already happening on the Gold Line Extension at Indiana and 1st. la.curbed.com/archives/2009/10/visiting_the_new_gold_line_extension_nearly_getting_hit_by_a_train.phpWe'll see how that affects operations on the line. What is the difference between a train curving in the middle of an intersection than a train running in a straight line perpendicular to traffic on a signalized intersection approaching a station? Even if the line is grade separated, the approach at the station platforms (@ Crenshaw, Western and Vermont) will be slower so very little time will be saved grade separating these crossings and safer because the train will have a better chance of safely stopping in case a vehicle is stuck at the intersection. 1st and Indiana so far from visual inspection of the pre-revenue testing, the timetable is deisgned so that intersection will have both trains crossing the intersection at the same time. Right now, per EIR documents the worst case scenario of trip time is 45 minutes from 7th Street Metro Center to Santa Monica via Colorado and Expo Right of way, with elevating the line at Olympic, best time achieved per the EIR documents is 44 minutes. Considering that even with the elevated going at 55mph it is such a small section of the line AND it's at a terminal station which has trains coming in at a slower speed. Now lets say we grade separated the entire line with our current designed stop spacing end to end time will be 31-34 minutes (if some stations are eliminated due to closer proximity) with the signals adjusted per the cases with our Gold and Blue Lines after operation they've trimmed between 5-12 minutes off the original running times, so off that 45 minute worse case scenario trip time with a operational adjustments, end to end running time of 40 minutes is possible and very good, when also factoring in the trip time, the amount of time it takes cars to park at the destination.
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Post by darrell on Oct 23, 2009 14:13:10 GMT -8
The Santa Monica City Council will make its final recommendations for the Expo Line maintenance yard next Tuesday, 10/27. Here's the full staff report and Recommended Action: Staff recommends that the City Council:
1. Authorize the City Manager to continue to work with the Exposition Construction Authority (Expo) to further explore and mitigate the effects of the proposed Phase 2 Exposition Light Rail maintenance facility, including the proposed alternative concept “hybrid” maintenance facility site which consists of the Verizon property and the Santa Monica College (SMC) parking lot as the location for the maintenance facility (Attachment A). Such an alternative will include a tightly configured storage and maintenance facility on the Verizon/SMC site adjacent to the railroad right of way, and a linear buffer of 100 – 110 feet for most of the frontage facing residents on Exposition Boulevard. Currently, the Exposition Light Rail Phase 2 Draft Environmental Impact Report (DEIR) identifies the entire Verizon site in Santa Monica as the only option. The DEIR does not analyze the proposed alternative hybrid concept. Expo has previously agreed to analyze both sites in the Final EIR if so requested by the City.
2. Request Expo to continue working with the City and community to ensure that, if the alternative hybrid concept is accepted by Expo, any environmental impacts associated with the hybrid concept are fully mitigated. Direct staff to work with Expo to minimize the visual and environmental impacts of the maintenance facility and enhance its aesthetic interface with the community.
3. Direct City staff to work with Expo and other agencies on layout and financial issues associated with the newly proposed hybrid alternative. Efforts will include discussion with Los Angeles County Metropolitan Transportation Authority (Metro), the California Public Utilities Commission (CPUC) and SMC.
4. Direct City staff to work with SMC on the identification of property on Airport Residual land as replacement parking and possible terms for a land swap.
5. Direct staff to work with Expo to develop any necessary agreements regarding the hybrid site if it is adopted by the Expo Board as the recommended site and adjust the final budget for the Expo Phase 2 project as appropriate.
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