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Post by Gokhan on Oct 13, 2009 18:30:08 GMT -8
No one expected the NIMBYs in Phase 2 to behave nicely. Here are they behaving badly and giving out their lawsuit plot. Check out the red arrows: Don't be mislead: The "Smart" in Neighbors for Smart Rail actually stands for "No." This is their e-mail blast with the attachment above: IMPORTANT NEIGHBORS FOR SMART RAIL MEETING
Please review the attached flyer and print out for others. Not everyone is on our email list and they need to know about this meeting.
For those who attended the WOWHOA Annual Meeting last week you know that the only acceptable option is to put it underground. We will not be properly mitigated any other way.
For those who think this will only affect those who live on or a block from Expo, Think Again.
The traffic will be stopped over 20 mins each hour. The pollution from cars idling will affect all of us but especially the children at Overland School. In addition the noise impact that comes with a train crossing every 2 minutes in each direction will have an adverse affect on their learning envirornment and our ears.
Many feel "you can't beat city hall" but we have. Many developments have been required to scale down their project and provide more mitigations.
The Mayor and our former councilman tried to force Pico/Olympic on us to help move Santa Monica commuters through our community but we said NO.
There is only 70 spaces in Santa Monica Expo parking lot, yet we get 170 spaces behind residential homes on Ashby and Richland and another couple of hundred on Sepulveda which is already a traffic nightmare for our residents who live behind the post office. People are going to SM not leaving it. SM wants people to come work and spend money there but they don't want any CARS going into SM--leave the traffic congestion to LA.
At the meeting Expo said they do not think this line will signifcantly reduce traffic on the Westside, just give people an other transportation option--we'll thats comforting to know we'll still have congestion along with all the negative impact of a light rail at grade.
We need your help to ensure that we are properly mitigated. Come to NFSR meeting on Sunday, August 25th 2-4 in Palms Park (childcare provided) and learn were we are in the process, what lies ahead and what YOU can do. We listened to their presentations now it is time for us to speak.
"Build it right or not at all"!!!!!!
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Post by Jason Saunders on Oct 13, 2009 19:53:27 GMT -8
"NFSR has hired lawyers...." Two sentences latter ".... NFSR will have to hire lawyers"
They need to proofread their flyer and decide if they have hired lawyers already or not.
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Post by numble on Oct 13, 2009 21:47:39 GMT -8
"NFSR has hired lawyers...." Two sentences latter ".... NFSR will have to hire lawyers" They need to proofread their flyer and decide if they have hired lawyers already or not. Hiring lawyers to make/analyze arguments during the notice and comment period is entirely different from hiring lawyers to go to court for you.
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Post by Jason Saunders on Oct 14, 2009 2:15:31 GMT -8
"NFSR has hired lawyers...." Two sentences latter ".... NFSR will have to hire lawyers" They need to proofread their flyer and decide if they have hired lawyers already or not. Hiring lawyers to make/analyze arguments during the notice and comment period is entirely different from hiring lawyers to go to court for you. NFSR should put a little more thought into their wording.
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Post by rubbertoe on Oct 14, 2009 7:31:43 GMT -8
In an updated version of "what goes around comes around", wouldn't it be ironic if about 20-30 pro-transit activists showed up at the park and started behaving like the NFSR Nimby's do at MTA meetings?
Or at a minimum passing out written material that refutes the Nimby position. That would be so sweet ;D
Two can play the same game...
RubberToe
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Post by metrocenter on Oct 14, 2009 8:31:08 GMT -8
NIMBYs For SomewhereElse Rail. That huge freeway in their backyards is not a problem, but the light rail line is?
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Post by darrell on Oct 14, 2009 9:23:17 GMT -8
I don't expect much court success with their "demand", given the facts that: 1. As we've previously established here, there is NO modern U.S. light rail line - of the many built since 1980 - with an extended tunnel beneath an existing railroad right-of-way; 2. A tunnel in white Cheviot Hills-Rancho Park would violate equity with the minority neighborhoods similarly situated along Phase 1; 3. Issues of traffic, safety, and noise have been addressed in great detail in the Phase 2 environmental process, following standards for mitigation used in many other cities; 4. The COST ("Citizens Organized for Smart Transit" - there's that "smart" again) lawsuit over the Orange Line busway was quickly dismissed.
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Post by Gokhan on Oct 14, 2009 9:30:48 GMT -8
NIMBYs For SomewhereElse Rail. That huge freeway in their backyards is not a problem, but the light rail line is? That's simply because "those people" who will ride the rail can't afford to drive a car on the freeway... In fact their original slogan was don't build it on the right-of-way; build it on Venice. So, by smart they do mean that building rail in our neighborhood is not smart. The letter and flyer might be written by Terri Tippit, the veteran Westside homeowners' president (for West of Westwood) as well as the Westside Neighborhood Council president at times and board member at other times. She might be confusing October with August or not using the best English when referring to hiring lawyers, but what she means is that they have hired lawyers in the past to write their hundreds of pages of DEIR comments, their basis for the lawsuit, saying they haven't been properly addressed, and they need to hire more lawyers now for the lawsuit. Here are their hundreds of pages of DEIR comments as well as other comments. I didn't bother to go through them. The Pico - Olympic proposal was opposed by many people, including transit advocates. The Expo Line is quite different. It's the best thing ever that is happening to the Westside. Too bad the NIMBYs are so blinded by their territorial passion or resentment of the general public to see that.
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Post by Jason Saunders on Oct 14, 2009 9:57:15 GMT -8
Wasn't there also a quickly put to rest lawsuit from a group calling themselves, NoBlag, (No Blue Line at Grade) in South Pasadena for the Gold Line LAUS to Pasadena?
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Post by darrell on Oct 14, 2009 11:15:53 GMT -8
Wasn't there also a quickly put to rest lawsuit from a group calling themselves, NoBlag, (No Blue Line at Grade) in South Pasadena for the Gold Line LAUS to Pasadena? That was a CPUC challenge - vs. lawsuit - that in any case failed. I posted this here about NoBLAG on 3/17/09:
On the subject of the slippery slope of grade separation, this will seem quite familiar. Thanks to the Internet Archive Wayback Machine, you can still read the Pasadena NOBLAG (NO Blue Line At Grade) website. Their claims were quite similar to those of opponents of the Expo Line, both even citing the Long Beach Blue Line: Why is the BLAG bad for Pasadena? Running the Blue Line at-grade will: - worsen traffic congestion
- cause safety hazards to motorists, pedestrians and cyclists
- create environmental blight
What they wanted instead was (where have we heard this before?): The preferred options all involve placing the Blue Line below grade. - The best alternative is Blue Line Cut and Cover
- A second alternative is placing the Blue Line in an Open Trench
Yet after NOBLAG lost before the CPUC the Gold Line was finished and none of those predictions happened.
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Post by Gokhan on Oct 14, 2009 11:30:09 GMT -8
Wasn't there also a quickly put to rest lawsuit from a group calling themselves, NoBlag, (No Blue Line at Grade) in South Pasadena for the Gold Line LAUS to Pasadena? To the best of my memory there was never any law suit. I checked with my friend who worked in Public relations for the Authority and she does not remember a law suit. They threatened and did file petitions to the PUC. They like Farmdale crew got the crossing hearings re opened. That will now become a standard practice. No Blag filed petitions and got the Authority to stop laying rail for a few months. (Source: Alan K. Weeks, Gold Line Phase 1 and Phase 2 advocate and historic and contemporary rail photographer)
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Post by darrell on Oct 14, 2009 11:33:30 GMT -8
More comments: * "Lead Agency Approval", not the FEIR, is expected in Jan. 2010. * Presumably the legal process can complete during 2010's Final Design phase without delaying construction. * We emphatically represent "the community's strong desire for a sensible light rail system" that the Expo Authority is delivering but NFSR is attempting to block. * Yes, "Together, we can and will win this fight." * You can read NFSR's 57 pages of DEIR comments here. The Pico - Olympic proposal was opposed by many people, including transit advocates. The Expo Line is quite different. In fact, the Expo Line is an excellent alternative to the Pico-Olympic quick-fix for Westside east-west traffic.
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Post by metrocenter on Oct 14, 2009 12:09:22 GMT -8
"Neighbors For Smart Rail is demanding that..."
Yeah, well, the Transit Coalition and its many supporters demand that the Expo Authority build the most effective, environmentally-friendly and safe light rail line we can afford along the Expo ROW, for the use and benefit of tens of thousands of transit riders of all backgrounds throughout the county.
We demand a light rail line designed using objective standards to establish which crossings will be grade-separated - based on real traffic and safety issues, not imagined ones.
In short, we demand that the unreasonable demands of a few dozen wealthy homeowners not be given priority over the rest of us.
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Post by metrocenter on Oct 15, 2009 13:21:20 GMT -8
If safety is the real issue (I have my doubts), they can put up a sign similar to this one:
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Post by spokker on Oct 15, 2009 18:57:53 GMT -8
Where is that sign?
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Post by kenalpern on Oct 15, 2009 21:18:17 GMT -8
...and is the take-home message really that we shouldn't try to hold onto a moving airplane?
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Post by Gokhan on Oct 24, 2009 20:49:45 GMT -8
This would probably be quite fun to attend, watching the NIMBYs fantasizing about STOPPING the Expo Line as the headline states. It's tomorrow (Sunday) at 2 in Palms Park (Overland and National). Give us a summary if you attend.
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Post by masonite on Oct 24, 2009 22:39:45 GMT -8
This would probably be quite fun to attend, watching the NIMBYs fantasizing about STOPPING the Expo Line as the headline states. It's tomorrow (Sunday) at 2 in Palms Park (Overland and National). Give us a summary if you attend. I wonder where they get all this money to hire lawyers and so forth. I am hoping and praying the Eastside line opens in a few weeks and is as safe as the current Gold Line. This would go a long way towards putting an end to these type of arguments. Of course, I fear for the future if that is not the case. Some people are on some other blogs are saying the Gold Line should not open next month and it is not safe, but it is important to point out that the trains are already running, just not with passengers.
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Post by Gokhan on Oct 25, 2009 0:22:17 GMT -8
I wonder where they get all this money to hire lawyers and so forth. They've been asking every opposition household in the Westside area to donate $1,000 or so and I believe the Cheviot Hills Homeowner's Association has agreed to cash all their savings and investments in order to stop the Expo Line. I'm guessing they have $100k or so available. It's a lot of money considering that their annual dues is less than $100, and most of the about 600 homes in Cheviot Hills don't pay it. Again, give us a summary if you attend the meeting.
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Post by Gokhan on Oct 25, 2009 15:18:52 GMT -8
Around 2 PM today, I saw a lot of people in the neighborhood headed to the "gathering," making their way to the Palms Park bridge over the tracks. Interestingly almost all of them were in their 60s, 70s, or older.
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Post by Gokhan on Oct 28, 2009 15:19:30 GMT -8
NFSR claim 250 people attended their gathering.
One point that the Smart Rail folks made at their meeting was that they would need to raise $150,000 to $200,000 in order to legally challenge this and take it to the Supreme Court.
Many think that this money would be insufficient and NFSR would come back to them for money.
I think the neighbors should be educated on how their money is being wasted by these people and also taxpayers' money can be potentially wasted as well.
If they worked with the Expo Authority, instead of on stopping the line, the neighbors would be far better off. But they won't because of the people who run their group.
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Post by metrocenter on Oct 29, 2009 12:10:45 GMT -8
Maybe they should try to raise several million dollars instead, to pay for the grade-separation they want. LOL
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Post by Gokhan on Oct 29, 2009 16:48:13 GMT -8
Neighbors for Smart Rail have now launched an all-out war to stop the Expo Line. These people will do everything to prevent rail transit in their neighborhood. Do these people have any lives other than fighting other people? What a waste of time, effort, and money.Neighbors for Smart Rail meeting minutes -- October 25, 2009
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Post by Gokhan on Oct 29, 2009 17:01:22 GMT -8
Make sure to read the meeting minutes above and then this presentation. (Attachment available in the post when viewed in the thread) Attachments:
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Post by Gokhan on Oct 29, 2009 17:02:51 GMT -8
And, after reading their meeting minutes and introductory presentation, read their road-to-lawsuit presentation. (Attachment available in the post when viewed in the thread) Attachments:
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Post by metrocenter on Oct 30, 2009 10:46:31 GMT -8
That's some great information. Lays out people's motivations and their strategy.
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Post by Gokhan on Oct 30, 2009 12:14:34 GMT -8
After reading their meeting minutes: - It's clear that they are dreading the Expo Line and the Westwood Station and they don't want public transit in their neighborhood. They are using the below-grade card to prevent the project from being built.
- They are determined to file lawsuits.
- Most comments from the neighbors who spoke at the meeting are false information.
- They think that since the subway is being sped up, this may help them not have the Expo Line built (but they don't realize that they're two different corridors).
- I don't believe that Zev is working in order to get rid of the Westwood Station. This is the most importation Phase 2 station, perhaps only second in importance to the Santa Monica terminus. It has great connection to Westwood and Century City and it's right next to Westside Pavilion and Landmark Theaters. According to the EIR, it has the highest boardings along the line. Zev himself told this to the NFSR leaders' faces at the board meeting during which the route was selected.
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Post by rajacobs on Oct 31, 2009 7:41:46 GMT -8
Perhaps Phase II could initiate with full construction of the line to the Palms-National station, enabling access for tens of thousands of renters in the Palms area to Downtown and the Eastside. Doing so would avoid the inevitable loss of workers and avoid logistical delays if construction on Phase II is delayed due to the opposition efforts just described. Further, continuing the construction effort sets the stage for resolution.
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Post by John Ryan on Nov 4, 2009 16:04:02 GMT -8
Could someone give me a few scenarios of how this opposition might play out? If you could rank them for severity of detrimental impact on the Expo timeline and how likely they are percentage-wise to come about, I would have a much better understanding of what is plausible, possible, and unlikely (CA Supreme Court hearing, anyone?). Thanks in advance.
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Post by Gokhan on Nov 4, 2009 16:10:26 GMT -8
Could someone give me a few scenarios of how this opposition might play out? If you could rank them for severity of detrimental impact on the Expo timeline and how likely they are percentage-wise to come about, I would have a much better understanding of what is plausible, possible, and unlikely (CA Supreme Court hearing, anyone?). Thanks in advance. I give them (the NFSR NIMBYs in collaboration with Fix Expo) zero-percent (0%) chance of having any impact of any sort whatsoever with their lawsuits. They will just waste their time, effort, and money and add to the frustration with their personal lives, which is the source of their negative energy. They still need to be strongly countered and properly addressed. It's our task to do so. So, do your own best to respond to these NIMBYs and counter their attacks on the Expo Line. Write letters, speak at the meetings, etc., in addition to countering them on the blogs.
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