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Post by Alexis Kasperavičius on Apr 7, 2010 0:18:22 GMT -8
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Post by rajacobs on Apr 7, 2010 1:55:15 GMT -8
...I really like these 2 knock-off signs! And yes, Gokhan, it's also my impression that the leadership of CHHA ...active membership too, has become a stoggy self-selecting bunch, out-of-touch with their community. The "Neighbors working with Neighbors" bunch represents future Cheviot leadership, perhaps just beginning to cut their teeth. I'm looking forward to watching the interplay betwen the two groups.
But back to the the signs--very well done!
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Post by Gokhan on Apr 7, 2010 11:48:11 GMT -8
An Expo supporter, who lives in the heart of Cheviot Hills, was handing out this flyer at the Cheviot Hills Homeowners' Association meeting last night. The NFSR leaders were very hostile to him. This morning he found out that his house had been vandalized with toilet paper.
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Post by Alexis Kasperavičius on Apr 7, 2010 14:43:30 GMT -8
Wouldn't you know it, ANOTHER Expo group has formed: Neighbors For Smarter Rail ( www.SmarterRail.org) - and they have posters too! You can download them all at their web page ( www.SmarterRail.org) in PDF format. Funny how the world works sometimes!
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Post by redwings105th on Apr 7, 2010 14:50:59 GMT -8
Toilet paper...... how mature. That'll help them in their cause. And by help I mean in a bad way.
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Post by Gokhan on Apr 7, 2010 15:16:35 GMT -8
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Post by Gokhan on Apr 7, 2010 15:42:26 GMT -8
Make sure to call (310) 919-0919 and listen to the Expo message.
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Post by rajacobs on Apr 7, 2010 17:35:10 GMT -8
This afternoon I got to talking with a mother of a 2 year old who lives just south of the Expo ROW and just west of Overland. I asked her what she thought of the Expo line coming thorugh the neighborhood.
She said she knows a lot of people are against it but that she hadn't made up her mind. She said that the line could bring a lot of "riff-raff" in and lower property values because of the "accompanying noise problem." She said that "the Overland Elementary School" was very concerned and didn't want it, but that it might be nice for the "ditch" west of Overland to be filled with something practical.
I note a study done on prior to building the Blue Line that rebutted the "riff-raff" issue and added, "What are the bad guys gonna do, ride up on a train with cameras to a station with cameras, rob a house and carry the loot back to the station and the train with cameras and go home?" Regarding noise, I informed her of the sound walls that are planned. Regarding property values, I pointed to property values increasing in other locales where trains were introduced.
Walking away, unnoticeably I shook my head and thought that CHHA and company has laid quite a blanket of propaganda that has reached even this mother.
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Post by Gokhan on Apr 8, 2010 15:53:26 GMT -8
She doesn't sound as bad as some others. NFSR is certainly doing everything to scare them as much as possible.
I used to talked to a mother (of an infant) in the past, who lived in Cheviot Hills but away from the tracks. She hated the idea of light-rail because she thought her kid would get distracted by the trains at Overland Elementary and never learn anything as a result.
My take: If your kid is so easily distracted and/or has so much hard time learning, he/she is a lost cause anyway.
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Post by trackman on Apr 8, 2010 20:29:20 GMT -8
She doesn't sound as bad as some others. NFSR is certainly doing everything to scare them as much as possible. I used to talked to a mother (of an infant) in the past, who lived in Cheviot Hills but away from the tracks. She hated the idea of light-rail because she thought her kid would get distracted by the trains at Overland Elementary and never learn anything as a result. My take: If your kid is so easily distracted and/or has so much hard time learning, he/she is a lost cause anyway. I wonder if her concern is at all valid afer she considers teh age of her child and how old they will be in 2015... and then how long they'd by subjective to those loud LRV's going by? You wrote that their child was an enfant... how old are they now?
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Post by metrocenter on Apr 8, 2010 21:48:48 GMT -8
Anybody who has lived near a light-rail train (as I have) knows, you get used to the sound of trains going by real quick. Especially children, who are far more adaptable than us grown-ups to things like this.
In San Francisco, I had Muni trains going by every few minutes. Visitors would ask me if those trains were annoying to me. Of course, to me they had become nothing more than background sounds, no more annoying than the sounds of cars going by or people talking on the street.
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Post by Transit Coalition on Apr 8, 2010 21:53:46 GMT -8
Subject: Report on the Cheviot Hills Homeowners meeting and a new website To: All Expo Line supporters and information seekers, A brief report follows on the Cheviot Hills Homeowners' Association annual general election meeting held April 6, at which past and present members of the CHHA gave out a flyer urging residents not to pay their dues but to use their time and energy, instead, to work with the emerging coalition of neighbors from Rancho Park, Cheviot Hills, West of Westwood, and West LA on mitigations to the at-grade Phase II of the Expo Line (see ROWneighbors@gmail.com - but for the new website, read to the end). In the meeting, the President Kevin Hughes commented that he had been shown the flier in advance and asked about passing it out, and that he thought it important that those with opposing viewpoints had the opportunity to present them. What follows comes from those who handed out flyers (thanks to John Mackel, Meg Sullivan, and Karen Leonard) and one who attended the meeting. Both the flyer-distributors and the attender thought the crowd was very small; we put it at about 75 people (and not all were paying dues and voting, or so they told us). But the target population is 1400 households, and the alleged membership is about 600; certainly the attendance was less than at past General Meetings (usually about 250). A fair number going in said they lived next to the right of way. The opening speaker was Councilman Paul Koretz, who said he planned to speak mostly about the DWP situation and the City's budget problem. He had a flier that his office had prepared about that for handing out at the meeting. Most people willingly accepted the fliers at the front door. Only a few walked past and barked out the slogan "Build it right or NOT AT ALL!" A very few still said "build it on Venice." However, an equal number of folks said they were in favor of the light rail. Some were guarded about who was around when they said it. "It is a shame that the atmosphere is so poisoned that people feel they can't express their own opinions," said a flyer distributor. There was a stack of lawn signs for sale. We saw three sold before the meeting, chiefly those that are intended to provoke the folks on Motor by claiming the Expo line project would dump more traffic on it. Those who started handing out flyers at 7 pm were accosted by a couple of the NFSR leaders who tried to intimidate them by demanding their names and pushing them to other positions on the sidewalk. Meg and John introduced themselves politely and held their ground. In the meeting, balloting proceeded for a new Board but the new President was not decided then (Kevin Hughes will be stepping down). One person asked Councilmember Koretz how the light rail project could be expedited, how it could be built as soon as possible; the answer was cautiously phrased, with Koretz mentioning 2015 as the tentative completion date. It was announced that CHHA has already contributed $33,000 to the lawsuit against the FEIR's certification and CHHA has been asked for $10,000 more in matching fund contributions. The person who attended was amazed at the level of hostility and vehement opposition to the light rail project. NOW, YOUR REWARD for reading all this is to gain access to a snazzy parody of the NFSR website. Enjoy the visuals and listen to the phone message too! The person or persons who designed and produced this is/are unknown to the sender of this email, by the way, and remember that it is a parody! And access it again next week, apparently there will be additions. Access this new Website, supporting Expo, under the name Smarter Rail. cheers, Karen Leonard
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Post by Gokhan on Apr 8, 2010 22:38:36 GMT -8
She doesn't sound as bad as some others. NFSR is certainly doing everything to scare them as much as possible. I used to talked to a mother (of an infant) in the past, who lived in Cheviot Hills but away from the tracks. She hated the idea of light-rail because she thought her kid would get distracted by the trains at Overland Elementary and never learn anything as a result. My take: If your kid is so easily distracted and/or has so much hard time learning, he/she is a lost cause anyway. I wonder if her concern is at all valid afer she considers teh age of her child and how old they will be in 2015... and then how long they'd by subjective to those loud LRV's going by? You wrote that their child was an enfant... how old are they now? I think the young lady's daughter will be in the fourth grade in 2015. But she also wanted to have another child. It wasn't clear whether she was concerned that the kids would be looking at the window and go "Hey, trainnnn! ;D ;D," or they would be listening to the bells and go "Hey, trainnnn! ;D ;D," or both. My take is that people are way too concerned these days.
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Post by bobdavis on Apr 8, 2010 23:42:01 GMT -8
That comment about trains distracting children in schools takes me back to my childhood in Monrovia. I think it was when I was in 5th grade that Pacific Electric started running the gravel train past Monroe School around 1:30 PM. I didn't notice the trolley cars, but the freight train had to stop for a stop sign at the end of street running on Olive Ave., with hissing of air brakes and much clanking and rattling. Whatever was under discussion would be totally lost to me. BUT--the Expo Line will have welded rail and modern electric railway cars; much quieter!
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Post by rajacobs on Apr 9, 2010 13:48:52 GMT -8
I can remember just about falling asleep in class. A train going past might have kept my eyes open! \
But seriously, the walls that Overland Elementary has built should be effective in blocking most of the noise and prevent interruptions.
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Post by Gokhan on Apr 9, 2010 14:02:25 GMT -8
Here the NIMBYs go again. Whether it's Fix Expo or NFSR, they all sound the same -- loud and obnoxious. They won't shut up until all legal challenges are dismissed. This one is from the mouth of Ms. Terri Tippit, President of NFSR and President of West of Westwood Homeowners' Association.As you may recall a few weeks we commented on how 3 years ago when the 4 HOAs president met to discuss the impact Light Rail AT GRADE would have on their members and how to address those concerns we made sure that the name we chose for our group would not include FRIENDS in it. We wanted to be sure there would be NO CONFUSION with them and Friends4Expo. F4E was formed 20 years ago by a person who lived in Santa Monica and was working for a company that was lobbying to get Light Rail to Santa Monica the fastest, cheapest way possible --even though it stopped at 17th Street. There is another group that works along side them called the Transit Coalition. We found it quite curious that members of Friends4Expo, Transit Coalition, and Light Rail for Cheviot decided to form a group and called it Neighbors Working With Neighbors For The Neighborhood. .We warned you to beware that they had absolutely NOTHING to do with NFSR. Well you listened. I guess it really frustrated them that they could not get your attention. Now they've come up with NFSR--Neighbors for Smart er Rail at smart errail.org. Where we made sure we were not associated with them they seem to want to be associated with us. They are a few people scattered around LA and we are hundreds strong. They see the lawnsigns going up. They know that people are opening up their homes to coffees so that their neighbors can learned the impact light rail AT GRADE will have on this community. They realize the only way to get your attention is to seem they are part of us. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and their message is clear: AT GRADE can be mitigated, AT GRADE will not impact the children at Overland's safety or learning environment (I guess bells and whistles are not a distraction), make the streets wider so you can queue more cars while waiting for the train to pass. Don't worry about emergency vehicles "we will insist that the city maximize integration of dispatch methods with the line". Do they realize that the city is going broke and response time will be impacted and we don't need to add to that time by having the trucks fight the increase traffic? Response vehicles can run red lights they cannot run into a train . Do they know that 8 days a month we do not have paramedics at FS92 on Pico and they are dispatch north, south, east and west of us, do they know they did not study ANY TRAFFIC EAST OF OVERLAND including where our station is located? We believe that AT GRADE cannot be properly mitigated especially when Build Expo has said at many meetings that Expo will NOT decrease traffic in OUR area but will increase it (we have it on tape). The "Neighbors" group was passing out flyers at the Cheviot Hills HOA meeting Tuesday night asking people NOT to pay their HOA dues. We contacted one of the eleven signers who sits on a HOA board north of National who said he was unaware that the flyer would contain that wording and would not have had agreed to have his name on the flyer. You would think with only 11 signers they would get their ok before distributing the flyer. The good news is that it upset the HOA members. They bought a couple of dozen lawn signs that night and others called and requested them. I guess that's when "Neighbors" decided the only way to get your attention was to copy NFSR logo and website because that they know that is what you have come to trust. You know NFSR has your back and is doing all it can to make sure that this community is properly mitigated from the impact Expo will have on all of us. So let's keep the donations coming in, let's get more lawn signs up, let's have more coffees to educate our community, let's get our message out loud and clear: Build it Right or Don't Build it!Ms. Terri Tippit, President, NFSR, and President, West of Westwood Homeowners' Association E-mail: wowhoa@verizon.net
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Post by metrocenter on Apr 10, 2010 9:35:01 GMT -8
Whatever. The Expo Line has thousands of supporters across the southland, and when it opens it will have tens of thousands of patrons. This tiny group of homeowners is far louder than it is significant.
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Post by Gokhan on Apr 10, 2010 9:58:57 GMT -8
They also have false allegations about Friends 4 Expo. Friends 4 Expo is entirely grassroots and its roots go to its predecessors in the 60s - 80s. No one in F4ET has ever advocated Expo because of a private or government sponsor.
On the other hand, Ms. Terri Tippit has always been against Expo. Expo is probably the reason why she got into neighborhood organizing (West of Westwood HOA, Westside Neighborhood Council, etc.) in the first place.
NFSR was formed by Ms. Terri Tippit a few years back shortly after when Expo was getting started on the Phase 2 Alternatives Analysis and DEIR. I remember at a Cheviot Hills HOA meeting a friend of hers in the Westside NC was trying to sell it as "Grassroots Organization!... Join Grassroots Organization!... New Grassroots Organization!..." He sounded like a street salesman. There is nothing grassroots about NFSR. It was founded by a few fanatics who cannot take the idea of light-rail in their neighborhood for one reason or another. Then they have gathered some support through their campaign of fear. Note that initially their slogan was "Build it on Venice," which has now become "Build it underground."
Just like Fix Expo, no matter how much fear they try to spread about at-grade light-rail, it's standard everywhere, and all their allegations about at-grade light-rail are false.
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Post by jdrcrasher on Apr 10, 2010 10:16:14 GMT -8
^ Never underestimate the political power of some of these NIMBY trolls.
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Post by roadtrainer on Apr 10, 2010 15:30:12 GMT -8
What will cause Ms. Terri and her group of Nimby's to fail? People like you and me who will start financial boycott of the Cheviot Hills area! And i have already started, i will not stop my bus in that neighborhood for a lunch or dinner! And i am spreading the word!
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Post by Alexis Kasperavičius on Apr 11, 2010 12:12:12 GMT -8
Hmm, another poster has been made by those folks - and now instructions for making big posters at Kinkos! www.smarterrail.org
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Post by Transit Coalition on Apr 11, 2010 13:39:58 GMT -8
Hmm, another poster has been made by those folks - and now instructions for making big posters at Kinkos! www.smarterrail.orgThis type of mischief is making the NIMBY kings and queens very unhappy. They have accused Transit Coalition and Light Rail for Cheviot in writing that we are behind these pranks. We all knew that they weren't bright enough to understand parody. And we've been accused of putting on this satire, when it is being done independently by a third party that is an Expo fan. Go figure! Are there any attorneys out there that want to help the light rail cause? If the NIMBY's sue, they sue to intimidate. We'd sure be happy to accept some donations for our cause.
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Post by jeisenbe on Apr 11, 2010 20:42:41 GMT -8
What, they are going to sue for copyright infringement? Political ads are copied by opposing groups all the time. Parody and political speech are both strongly protected by the constitution.
Whoever is putting out this stuff out to make a sign for Santa Monica too. "15 minutes to the beach, no parking required" sounds even better than "Downtown in 30 minutes".
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Post by Transit Coalition on Apr 13, 2010 21:44:29 GMT -8
Hmm, another poster has been made by those folks - and now instructions for making big posters at Kinkos! www.smarterrail.orgThis type of mischief is making the NIMBY kings and queens very unhappy. They have accused Transit Coalition and Light Rail for Cheviot in writing that we are behind these pranks. We all knew that they weren't bright enough to understand parody. And we've been accused of putting on this satire, when it is being done independently by a third party that is an Expo fan. Go figure! Are there any attorneys out there that want to help the light rail cause? If the NIMBY's sue, they sue to intimidate. We'd sure be happy to accept some donations for our cause. Now the Smarter Rail website made it onto Streetsblog! Feel free to make a comment.
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Post by rajacobs on Apr 14, 2010 8:45:49 GMT -8
A 6 mile walk weaving all through Cheviot Hills allowed me to observe only 1 NFSR sign (of the original Expo fear-mongering type). It was in the Calif. Country Club Estates section just north of Manning and east of Motor.
It's pretty clear to me that Cheviot Hills as a community, rather than the organization and self-appointed spokespersons, isn't very involved with this hullabaloo over nothing. In it's face, factual, published, supported information would be helpful.
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Post by Gokhan on Apr 14, 2010 8:53:15 GMT -8
A 6 mile walk weaving all through Cheviot Hills allowed me to observe only 1 NFSR sign (of the original Expo fear-mongering type). It was in the Calif. Country Club Estates section just north of Manning and east of Motor. It's pretty clear to me that Cheviot Hills as a community, rather than the organization and self-appointed spokespersons, isn't very involved with this hullabaloo over nothing. In it's face, factual, published, supported information would be helpful. I've thought NFSR is mainly in the Terriland, not the Colleenland. Did you walk in the Terriland as well?
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Post by metrocenter on Apr 14, 2010 9:56:34 GMT -8
I've seen two signs near the ROW west of Westwood (ROW WOW, he he). It makes me question how deep this group's support really is.
One thing that annoys me is how the media continues to repeat some variation of the following: "NFSR is a coalition of four HOA groups, which represent a total of 5000 homeowners". The clear implication is that 5000 homeowners are members of NFSR and therefore support NFSR's cause. Even in the best (worst) case, it is not true that every member of these HOAs is anti-Expo and supports Tippit & Co.
Clearly, the strategy of "smarterrail" is to expose this lack of unanimity within the HOAs. I'm sure that a good percentage of the residents of NFSR-land (aside from Terri Tippit) have actual jobs, and therefore actual commutes - commutes that would be made a lot easier by Expo.
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Post by rajacobs on Apr 14, 2010 23:43:29 GMT -8
Gokhan, I have no clue where Tippit and Heller live!
Walking the streets in Cheviot Hills, as my wife and I do nearly every night, I see virtually no NFSR signs. Where they exist, they are west of Manning and immediately north and south of the ROW west of Overland (except for one just east of Manning on Patricia I believe. Cheviot Hills proper is virtually untouched.
This suggests that Tippit and a few others, motivated by G-d knows what blind need to defend their enclave from riff-raff, are doing a reasonable job organizing and radicalizing some residents adjacent to the ROW but ignoring their upper middle class peer constituency—which is probably largely unmoved and disinterested in the shenanigans. The poor attendance at the Cheviot Hills Home Owners Assoc meeting adds some credence to this thought.
…I just wish that homeowners in very expensive homes could see what I saw—the equivalent of million dollar plus homes lining a road that a light rail line traversed after coming through a very bad part of town. No crime coming up the tracks, high-salaried folks taking the train. This works; it really works! As a matter of fact, the upper middle class community had rail from the very beginning—Shaker Heights, Ohio, from 1920s into the 1970s and forward. The community is still a great place to live. Those large homes that would dwarf many Cheviot Hills never became rundown …the people are very happy with their train.
Tippit, Heller, and whomever seem to have targeted more middle class folks, ironically, the ones who could profit from rail transportation. I am anticipating, despite some success confusing media outlets with propaganda, in time the legitimate need for Westside rail will grab hold among the middle class folks who NFSR targets, just as the need for rail has taken root among much of the city’s leadership. (It might be helpful to list the media outlets feeding on the propaganda so it can be corrected.)
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Post by Alexis Kasperavičius on Apr 15, 2010 3:28:11 GMT -8
Has anyone seen any "smarter" rail signs up, anywhere?
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Post by metrocenter on Apr 15, 2010 7:26:02 GMT -8
On their website, NFSR's website has a 7-item list of talking points. Near the top of the list is fear: 2. Stations and parking lots have the highest crime rates in transit environments—our community will have 2 stations with parking lots, at Westwood and Sepulveda, less than ½ mile apart, operating 22 hours a day. The number of buses on Westwood Boulevard will double, further impacting area traffic. Parking will be removed on Overland, Westwood and Sepulveda. Westwood will lose many of the scenic liquid amber trees lining the boulevard. These people are fear-mongering to gain support. Of course they don't mention the transients, trash and overgrown weeds that (until recently) filled the ROW.
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