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Post by Transit Coalition on Nov 28, 2015 8:33:02 GMT -8
I think I'd take the word of an official public notice from Metro. I suppose they could be checking for a failed loop at the terminal by running trains like they did a few weeks ago, but I doubt it. The staff member was the testing manager. I would be very surprised if he didn't know what was going on. The notices don't need to be accurate in technical details -- it also doesn't hurt to put the scope of the notice larger than the actual work. I also don't think that the spring 2016 ROD on the notice is accurate any more. Driving home last night, I heard ads on various radio stations, not just one station, advising drivers to watch out for trains at surface grade crossing intersections from Santa Monica to points towards West Los Angeles. This is the weekend of more testing. The Source. Metro. Heads up! Expo Line testing in Santa Monica on SaturdayBY STEVE HYMON ON NOVEMBER 27, 2015 • ( LEAVE A COMMENT ) This is a very similar test to the one that ran a few weeks ago — and this test is scheduled to run only from 5 a.m. to 10 a.m. on Saturday. Here’s the official notice:
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Post by Gokhan on Nov 28, 2015 13:52:51 GMT -8
I have a theory regarding why metro might call this a repeat and expo wouldn't but it doesn't matter I suppose. It was the Metro staff who said that, not Expo.
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Post by Gokhan on Nov 29, 2015 19:42:20 GMT -8
I have a theory regarding why metro might call this a repeat and expo wouldn't but it doesn't matter I suppose. It was the Metro staff who said that, not Expo. According to a couple of videos posted on Hello Expo Facebook page, The Source was inaccurate and the Metro staff member in charge of managing the testing was accurate. They were apparently testing the 6th Street interlock -- a failed ATP track loop in the interlock (a rectangular-loop-shaped antenna in the track that communicates with an antenna under the train) the staff mentioned.
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Post by bluelineshawn on Nov 29, 2015 20:46:12 GMT -8
It was the Metro staff who said that, not Expo. According to a couple of videos posted on Hello Expo Facebook page, The Source was inaccurate and the Metro staff member in charge of managing the testing was accurate. They were apparently testing the 6th Street interlock -- a failed ATP track loop in the interlock (a rectangular-loop-shaped antenna in the track that communicates with an antenna under the train) the staff mentioned. Thanks. But there are a few other videos on that same page that state that there was (or at the time will be) headway testing. It's possible that both were done but at different times. They had trains running frequently for the USC game by 10am or so. Perhaps before that they did the headway testing and after 10am they did the interlock testing.
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Post by bzcat on Nov 30, 2015 17:27:33 GMT -8
I was near DTSM station on Saturday morning. Looked like they were running the trains pretty often. I didn't timed the headways but it was definitely more than one train doing clearance or ATP testing but also not as frequent as it should be if they were doing a full blown headway testing. So in conclusion, they were doing some sort of testing... I know, this was not a very informative post
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Post by tramfan on Dec 7, 2015 9:36:43 GMT -8
Sunday Morning at 5AM trains were passing by at Military. When I went on my weekly photo report after my bike ride they were testing trains extensively at the DTSM station. They were testing the positive train control into the station that does not allow them to go faster than 11 mph. As they were going between 17th Street station and DTSM station I filmed them and it took an awful long time before the train was going through the lights at Lincoln and even 7th Street. The Metro safety officials told me that the PUC did not want the trains to interrupt the normal cycle of the traffic lights because it would disrupt the flow of traffic. I hope this was only for the testing and not for regular service because this would add significant time to the schedule.
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Post by Gokhan on Dec 7, 2015 13:31:32 GMT -8
Sunday Morning at 5AM trains were passing by at Military. When I went on my weekly photo report after my bike ride they were testing trains extensively at the DTSM station. They were testing the positive train control into the station that does not allow them to go faster than 11 mph. As they were going between 17th Street station and DTSM station I filmed them and it took an awful long time before the train was going through the lights at Lincoln and even 7th Street. The Metro safety officials told me that the PUC did not want the trains to interrupt the normal cycle of the traffic lights because it would disrupt the flow of traffic. I hope this was only for the testing and not for regular service because this would add significant time to the schedule. That would be 10 MPH, not 11 MPH. The only ATP presets are 0, 10, 25, 35, 45, and 55 MPH. It wouldn't surprise me if there was no priority for the trains. Cars rule here, and they come even before people.
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Post by Gokhan on Dec 7, 2015 17:12:13 GMT -8
According to the board-meeting presentation posted on Expo Web site, prerevenue operation (frequently running trains) will begin sometime next week. This also means that an official revenue-operation date (ROD) should be announced soon; however, this could be delayed until the handover of the Stewart Yard in late December/early January.
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Post by masonite on Dec 7, 2015 19:05:12 GMT -8
According to the board-meeting presentation posted on Expo Web site, prerevenue operation (frequently running trains) will begin sometime next week. This also means that an official revenue-operation date (ROD) should be announced soon; however, this could be delayed until the handover of the Stewart Yard in late December/early January. If the Gold Line is a guide, they handed over the line to Metro in Sept. and the opening date was announced a full month later at the Metro Board Meeting in late October.
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Post by RMoses on Dec 7, 2015 22:31:38 GMT -8
According to the board-meeting presentation posted on Expo Web site, prerevenue operation (frequently running trains) will begin sometime next week. This also means that an official revenue-operation date (ROD) should be announced soon; however, this could be delayed until the handover of the Stewart Yard in late December/early January. www.buildexpo.org/wp-content/uploads/ITEM-7a-DEC-3-2015-.pdf
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Post by Gokhan on Dec 7, 2015 23:18:58 GMT -8
If the Gold Line is a guide, they handed over the line to Metro in Sept. and the opening date was announced a full month later at the Metro Board Meeting in late October. That's correct. I was going to correct my post. According to the Metro CEO, ROD will be announced within 30 days of the handover/prerevenue start, not right after. So, it should be announced as early as around January 13.
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Post by bzcat on Dec 8, 2015 10:52:09 GMT -8
According to the board-meeting presentation posted on Expo Web site, prerevenue operation (frequently running trains) will begin sometime next week. This also means that an official revenue-operation date (ROD) should be announced soon; however, this could be delayed until the handover of the Stewart Yard in late December/early January. www.buildexpo.org/wp-content/uploads/ITEM-7a-DEC-3-2015-.pdfDocument says Santa Monica City Council may request Expo Authority to build fence next to tracks between 17th Street station and the terminus (i.e. the entire street running portion). This seems to run contrary to the vision that Santa Monica City Council had when they initially pushed for street running in Downtown (instead of elevated viaduct). Also, anyone in the know can provide updates on if Santa Monica will grant signal preemption or priority to the train? I remember we talked about it way back and someone said Santa Monica has approved it and the transportation department is working on it with Expo. But so far, I'm not seeing any evidence of signal preemption or priority with the test train in any of the Santa Monica crossings.
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f ron
Full Member
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Post by f ron on Dec 8, 2015 11:22:28 GMT -8
Is there clearance to run a fence 'next to the tracks' along that segment? That's a tight squeeze.
Seems like the only place one could conceivably run a fence is along the sidewalk yet there's parking along the sidewalk so how would that work?
Any fence that would impede pedestrians would need to be at least 5' or otherwise it gets hopped. So not really a fence so much as a cage. It's hard to see the aesthetically minded Santa Monica going for something like this.
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Post by Gokhan on Dec 8, 2015 14:52:31 GMT -8
No, the fence will not be outside the tracks. It will be a single median fence between the two tracks so that people don't attempt crossing the street. The right-of-way otherwise will not be secluded like in ATP sections.
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Post by joshuanickel on Dec 9, 2015 10:37:15 GMT -8
Document says Santa Monica City Council may request Expo Authority to build fence next to tracks between 17th Street station and the terminus (i.e. the entire street running portion). This seems to run contrary to the vision that Santa Monica City Council had when they initially pushed for street running in Downtown (instead of elevated viaduct). Also, anyone in the know can provide updates on if Santa Monica will grant signal preemption or priority to the train? I remember we talked about it way back and someone said Santa Monica has approved it and the transportation department is working on it with Expo. But so far, I'm not seeing any evidence of signal preemption or priority with the test train in any of the Santa Monica crossings. Is there clearance to run a fence 'next to the tracks' along that segment? That's a tight squeeze. Seems like the only place one could conceivably run a fence is along the sidewalk yet there's parking along the sidewalk so how would that work? Any fence that would impede pedestrians would need to be at least 5' or otherwise it gets hopped. So not really a fence so much as a cage. It's hard to see the aesthetically minded Santa Monica going for something like this. No, the fence will not be outside the tracks. It will be a single median fence between the two tracks so that people don't attempt crossing the street. The right-of-way otherwise will not be secluded like in ATP sections. I would imagine that they would take the fence that they have already installed at 9th, 10th, 12th ,Euclid, and 15th and extend it the whole length of the ROW. Here is a picture of the fence that they have already installed: www.ipernity.com/doc/expo-line/39895264
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Post by Gokhan on Dec 9, 2015 12:05:23 GMT -8
I hope they improve on that because that railing, which is not a fence, is absolutely useless in deterring people from crossing the street.
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Post by RMoses on Dec 9, 2015 14:00:37 GMT -8
I hope they improve on that because that railing, which is not a fence, is absolutely useless in deterring people from crossing the street. The metal railing as pictured is in place at "T intersections" on Colorado to encourage drivers to turn right.
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Post by joshuanickel on Dec 9, 2015 18:37:29 GMT -8
Document says Santa Monica City Council may request Expo Authority to build fence next to tracks between 17th Street station and the terminus (i.e. the entire street running portion). This seems to run contrary to the vision that Santa Monica City Council had when they initially pushed for street running in Downtown (instead of elevated viaduct). Also, anyone in the know can provide updates on if Santa Monica will grant signal preemption or priority to the train? I remember we talked about it way back and someone said Santa Monica has approved it and the transportation department is working on it with Expo. But so far, I'm not seeing any evidence of signal preemption or priority with the test train in any of the Santa Monica crossings. Is there clearance to run a fence 'next to the tracks' along that segment? That's a tight squeeze. Seems like the only place one could conceivably run a fence is along the sidewalk yet there's parking along the sidewalk so how would that work? Any fence that would impede pedestrians would need to be at least 5' or otherwise it gets hopped. So not really a fence so much as a cage. It's hard to see the aesthetically minded Santa Monica going for something like this. No, the fence will not be outside the tracks. It will be a single median fence between the two tracks so that people don't attempt crossing the street. The right-of-way otherwise will not be secluded like in ATP sections. I would imagine that they would take the fence that they have already installed at 9th, 10th, 12th ,Euclid, and 15th and extend it the whole length of the ROW. Here is a picture of the fence that they have already installed: www.ipernity.com/doc/expo-line/39895264I hope they improve on that because that railing, which is not a fence, is absolutely useless in deterring people from crossing the street. I hope they improve on that because that railing, which is not a fence, is absolutely useless in deterring people from crossing the street. The metal railing as pictured is in place at "T intersections" on Colorado to encourage drivers to turn right. Here is the staff report being presented to the city council this coming Tuesday, December 15th: Safety Enhancements for the Exposition Light Rail Project in the City of Santa Monica
Apparently Metro staff collected data between September 2015 and November 2015 documenting a large number of pedestrians, bicyclists, and skateboarders trespassing in the guideway on Colorado Avenue. They list a total of 2,788 incidents of pedestrians, 503 bicyclists, and 153 skateboarders trespassing in the guideway. They are proposing a fence down the center of the tracks between 7th Street and 15th Court (West Station Entrance at 17th Street Station). Between 7th Street and 5th Street, the fence would be placed along the sidewalk. This section has the crossovers so it can not be put between the tracks. The centerline track fence would be 42" in height and be in a similar style of one that is used on Pico Blvd in Santa Monica and is also similar to the existing green fence along the Expo Row: The sidewalk railing would be a simple railing like what is on Colorado currently. They are looking at recycling the existing railings at 9th, 10th, 12th ,Euclid, and 15th to be used for this section. They hope to have the fence finished before the train enters revenue operation. Until that time, the staff report also talks about the possibility of a temporary fence being installed until the permanent fence can be finished.
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andop2
Junior Member
Posts: 70
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Post by andop2 on Dec 10, 2015 9:44:10 GMT -8
I drove along Colorado last night, and workers were installing a temporary orange "mesh" fence in the center of the the ROW all along Colorado (at least between 16th and Lincoln).
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Post by joshuanickel on Dec 10, 2015 10:42:25 GMT -8
I drove along Colorado last night, and workers were installing a temporary orange "mesh" fence in the center of the the ROW all along Colorado (at least between 16th and Lincoln). Yes, a temporary fence is being installed because pre-revenue testing will be beginning shortly and there will be trains running more constantly. That orange fence will remain in place until the permanent fence is installed. They need a fence because they have had too many issues of people walking or riding along or across the tracks. Here are the numbers that Metro has reported since the middle of September: Safety Enhancements for the Exposition Light Rail Project in the City of Santa Monica
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andop2
Junior Member
Posts: 70
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Post by andop2 on Dec 10, 2015 11:59:48 GMT -8
I drove along Colorado last night, and workers were installing a temporary orange "mesh" fence in the center of the the ROW all along Colorado (at least between 16th and Lincoln). Yes, a temporary fence is being installed because pre-revenue testing will be beginning shortly and there will be trains running more constantly. That orange fence will remain in place until the permanent fence is installed. They need a fence because they have had too many issues of people walking or riding along or across the tracks. Here are the numbers that Metro has reported since the middle of September: Safety Enhancements for the Exposition Light Rail Project in the City of Santa MonicaOf major concern is the number of scofflaws who routinely turn left illegally across the ROW on Colorado (there was one car ahead of me last nighgt that turned left onto Lincoln). I've observed it every time I travel on Colorado. EVERY TIME! I don't know how this will be deterred. I am almost certain there will be at least one crash during the testing phase. Perhaps flashing "TRAIN! TRAIN!" signs will deter some, but it won't deter all. They will need bright red "NO LEFT TURN" signs illuminated at all times (like during rush hour on Alvarado), but even then someone is going to ignore the warnings and pay the consequences....
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Post by RMoses on Dec 10, 2015 12:02:13 GMT -8
Auto vs Train accident per SMFD @ 7th and Colorado just now.
A flat-bed semi attempted to turn left (south) illegally while westbound on Colorado directly in front of the train proceeding west; first train car derailed.
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Post by johanragle on Dec 10, 2015 14:29:41 GMT -8
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Post by RMoses on Dec 10, 2015 20:17:37 GMT -8
Very ironic the first collision in Santa Monica involved a lumber truck a block away from Fisher Lumber.
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Post by johanragle on Dec 11, 2015 9:23:19 GMT -8
Was Fisher Lumber Southern Pacific's last paying freight customer on the old Air Line? Edit: Yep, it sure was.
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Post by Gokhan on Dec 11, 2015 14:36:15 GMT -8
Fisher Lumber was between 16th and 14th Streets. That's where the Air Line ended (14th St) after Southern Pacific sold the western portions of the line. They were the last customers in the western segment of the line and they protested against the abandonment. The eastern segment (east of Culver Junction [Venice/Robertson]) was abandoned about a year or so later. Fisher Lumber got out of business in the 2000s and sold its land to Santa Monica.
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Post by Gokhan on Dec 11, 2015 14:37:54 GMT -8
It would be sad if one of the brand-new P3010 light-rail cars got into an accident.
I wish Southern Pacific hand't sold the private right-of-way west of 17th St.
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Post by Gokhan on Dec 14, 2015 15:50:27 GMT -8
I saw Sheriff cars guarding the Bagley Avenue crossing but there were no test trains running at all. So, headway testing hasn't quite started.
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f ron
Full Member
Posts: 222
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Post by f ron on Dec 14, 2015 16:11:29 GMT -8
There were maybe a dozen passes through the Northvale Trench today. The first train came through around 9 am. The second came through about two hours later. The closest thing to head way testing came between Noon and 1pm. There was a flurry of activity then that came pretty close to 10 - 20 minute intervals. There were a few more passes in the second half of the day.
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Post by johanragle on Dec 15, 2015 0:05:19 GMT -8
It would be sad if one of the brand-new P3010 light-rail cars got into an accident. I wish Southern Pacific hand't sold the private right-of-way west of 17th St. Who wouldn't want to take a train ride up to Malibu? Sure would beat PCH traffic.
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