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Post by coasterfreak18 on Jun 26, 2015 0:27:50 GMT -8
If it does become an issue, is there anything that can be done from this point forward to expand the space between the train/train tracks and the overpass?
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Post by Gokhan on Jun 26, 2015 11:26:37 GMT -8
If it does become an issue, is there anything that can be done from this point forward to expand the space between the train/train tracks and the overpass? Well, we will still have three new stations east of this point. They could rename the line Expo Short Line or Air Short Line (after the historic name). It would be a nightmare if the P3010 didn't fit. The bridge would have to be entirely removed; Sawtelle Blvd would have to be lowered, and a new bridge would have to be built, costing $50 million and taking two years. Let's hope that the clearance is more than what appears in the picture. It could be a parallax effect because we're looking from a very low point. If it's less than 14.0 ft, the Kinki Sharyo P3010 or the AnsaldoBreda P2550 may not fit, as they are 12.5-ft-tall.
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Post by Gokhan on Jun 26, 2015 11:29:58 GMT -8
The construction taking place at the Palms Station right now is surreal. There are 100 pickup trucks parked on National Blvd and 100 construction workers are working on finishing the Palms Station over the weekend for Monday's event. I am starting to think more and more that the Palms Station will open this summer. If they had built the line with this speed, it could have been built in six months.
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Post by Gokhan on Jun 26, 2015 14:33:00 GMT -8
If it does become an issue, is there anything that can be done from this point forward to expand the space between the train/train tracks and the overpass? Well, we will still have three new stations east of this point. They could rename the line Expo Short Line or Air Short Line (after the historic name). It would be a nightmare if the P3010 didn't fit. The bridge would have to be entirely removed; Sawtelle Blvd would have to be lowered, and a new bridge would have to be built, costing $50 million and taking two years. Let's hope that the clearance is more than what appears in the picture. It could be a parallax effect because we're looking from a very low point. If it's less than 14.0 ft, the Kinki Sharyo P3010 or the AnsaldoBreda P2550 may not fit, as they are 12.5-ft-tall. Metro says the bottom of the contact wire is 14 ft from the top of the rail. This probably puts the bridge at around 15 ft from the top of the rail then -- same as the I-10 bridge over Flower St. So, apparently, it's just a parallax and there is sufficient clearance. It sounds like it will be OK and let's hope so.
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Post by joshuanickel on Jun 26, 2015 14:52:14 GMT -8
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Post by bobdavis on Jun 26, 2015 18:36:26 GMT -8
We had a similar clearance question on the Gold Line in Monrovia, only it was side clearance rather than overhead room that was the concern. I had posted a photo of the line looking west from California Ave. on Trainorders.com, and someone thought it would be a tight fit for the LRVs to pass one of the overhead support poles. A day or two later, I was back in Monrovia, and, making sure there were no test trains or construction equipment nearby, took the tape measure I keep in the car and determined that there was plenty of room and just the camera angle made it look close.
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Post by culvercitylocke on Jun 26, 2015 21:43:29 GMT -8
The construction taking place at the Palms Station right now is surreal. There are 100 pickup trucks parked on National Blvd and 100 construction workers are working on finishing the Palms Station over the weekend for Monday's event. I am starting to think more and more that the Palms Station will open this summer. If they had built the line with this speed, it could have been built in six months. What's the event?
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Post by fissure on Jun 26, 2015 22:22:49 GMT -8
I am starting to think more and more that the Palms Station will open this summer. Partial opening wasn't studied in the EIR, so they'd have to do a supplement to it to allow that to happen. Based on how long those studies seem to take, it won't be done before the end of the year even if they started today.
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Post by roadtrainer on Jun 27, 2015 4:47:36 GMT -8
The rail fans of this page know more than The designers of this rail system at Sawtelle. everyone agreed that the road should have been lowered and the bridge be built lower.... now we see what genius has done.... probably no 3010 on the line!
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Post by darrell on Jun 27, 2015 13:18:56 GMT -8
It looks like only a couple of inches between the 750 V DC OCS contact wire and the A/C unit. There is hardly a foot between the A/C unit and the bridge. That puts the height of the bridge from the top of the rail at about 13 ft. Now, here is the shocker: P3010 is a-whole-foot-taller than the P865!!!See the Page 32 of the Metro Rail design criteria (PDF file). Height measured to where? It's rather prominent on the new LRVs where the actual carbody stops and everything above that is just side trim and upper nose trim to conceal the rooftop mechanical equipment and pantograph. Same for the Breda cars.
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Post by darrell on Jun 27, 2015 13:38:31 GMT -8
I also brightened the shadows a lot in this photo from the last page here to see the OCS and bridge girders, FWIW.
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Post by Gokhan on Jun 27, 2015 13:39:07 GMT -8
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Post by Gokhan on Jun 27, 2015 13:41:53 GMT -8
I am starting to think more and more that the Palms Station will open this summer. Partial opening wasn't studied in the EIR, so they'd have to do a supplement to it to allow that to happen. Based on how long those studies seem to take, it won't be done before the end of the year even if they started today. I'm not sure if that really precludes a partial opening. Would you have to do an EIR to partially operate the line every time there was an accident or breakdown blocking the tracks? In any case, it would be no more than a CE (categorical exemption), which could be done in a month.
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Post by Gokhan on Jun 27, 2015 13:43:27 GMT -8
The rail fans of this page know more than The designers of this rail system at Sawtelle. everyone agreed that the road should have been lowered and the bridge be built lower.... now we see what genius has done.... probably no 3010 on the line! From what Metro says, the bridge soffit is about 15 ft from the top of rail, which sounds probably sufficient.
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Post by Gokhan on Jun 27, 2015 13:50:07 GMT -8
Height measured to where? Static car height from top of the roof-mounted equipment to top of railNippon Sharyo P865/P2020 11.50 ft Siemens P2000 12.17 ft Ansaldo Breda P2550 12.50 ft Kinki Sharyo P3010 12.50 ft See the manual. Dynamic car height (such as on an angled bridge like at Sawtelle Blvd) is higher than the static car height.
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Post by Gokhan on Jun 28, 2015 12:03:30 GMT -8
In any case, I think the clearance between the roof-mounted equipment (A/C) and OCS contact wire will be as little as six inches with the Nippon Sharyo P3010. Adding 7% to the static height because of the 7% grade there results in 13.4 ft. Even with a 15.0 ft bridge soffit, assuming the contact wire is 1 ft below, it results in a clearance of 0.6 ft between the wire and A/C. Scary with 750 V DC and thousands of amperes -- a megawatt electric explosion in the making that would really scare the passengers!!!
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f ron
Full Member
Posts: 222
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Post by f ron on Jun 28, 2015 16:06:22 GMT -8
In any case, I think the clearance between the roof-mounted equipment (A/C) and OCS contact wire will be as little as six inches with the Nippon Sharyo P3010. Adding 7% to the static height because of the 7% grade there results in 13.4 ft. Even with a 15.0 ft bridge soffit, assuming the contact wire is 1 ft below, it results in a clearance of 0.6 ft between the wire and A/C. Scary with 750 V DC and thousands of amperes -- a megawatt electric explosion in the making that would really scare the passengers!!! No doubt it would be terrifying! I was checking the passage yesterday and noticed that one of the lines (the upper of the two) is encased in a sheath. I'm assuming that it's meant as an insulator in the event there is an extreme compression of the cable. If my assumption is correct then the line designers recognize that even with what they believe is adequate clearance, some kind of worst case scenario failsafe is required. Again, assuming I understand the purpose of this sheath. Can anyone tell me if such a thing is installed in other tight squeezes or is this a unique device?
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Post by Gokhan on Jun 29, 2015 13:05:11 GMT -8
Upper sheath wouldn't protect against a short between the contact wire (bottom wire) and the roof-mounted A/C units, which is what I am worried about. Perhaps the pantograph pushes the contact wire high enough so that it doesn't touch the A/C units despite the minimal clearance.
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Post by Gokhan on Jun 29, 2015 13:14:49 GMT -8
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Post by culvercitylocke on Jun 29, 2015 15:13:30 GMT -8
Where's the fare gates?
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Post by Gokhan on Jun 29, 2015 15:37:33 GMT -8
They are currently in the rolls of papers on the table.
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Post by joshuanickel on Jun 29, 2015 17:55:28 GMT -8
Things like the fare gates and the ticket vending machines will most likely be one of the last things installed right before opening.
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Post by Gokhan on Jun 29, 2015 18:22:03 GMT -8
The news of the PR event will be on NBC Channel 4.
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Post by RMoses on Jun 29, 2015 21:16:20 GMT -8
Station Plaza is a prime candidate for graffiti, hope they have taken anti measures.
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Post by TransportationZ on Jun 30, 2015 8:10:48 GMT -8
Station Plaza is a prime candidate for graffiti, hope they have taken anti measures. Just looking at all those clean flat surfaces and thinking about the field day the graffiti artists will have makes me cringe.
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Post by John Ryan on Jun 30, 2015 10:08:45 GMT -8
How long will Expo run at 12 minute peak headways?
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Post by bzcat on Jun 30, 2015 10:23:56 GMT -8
My guess is 12 minutes until Fall 2016. Metro adjust scheduled twice a year so if service begin in Spring, that schedule will stick until the next service change in Fall. By that time, Metro should have enough new rail cars to start 5 minute headways.
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Post by masonite on Jun 30, 2015 11:17:54 GMT -8
My guess is 12 minutes until Fall 2016. Metro adjust scheduled twice a year so if service begin in Spring, that schedule will stick until the next service change in Fall. By that time, Metro should have enough new rail cars to start 5 minute headways. It would be 6 minute headways until the Regional Connector opens in approx. 2020. I'm not so worried about the 12 minute headways for 6-7 months. That is what we have now and seems to work fine.
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Post by Gokhan on Jun 30, 2015 12:15:31 GMT -8
Things like the fare gates and the ticket vending machines will most likely be one of the last things installed right before opening. Yes, installing the barriers now would make the construction access very difficult. The workers would need a TAP card. TVMs can't be installed until the line is operational because they would attract robbers.
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Post by Gokhan on Jun 30, 2015 12:16:50 GMT -8
Station Plaza is a prime candidate for graffiti, hope they have taken anti measures. Just looking at all those clean flat surfaces and thinking about the field day the graffiti artists will have makes me cringe. Let's hope not. The Metro grand pylon and artwork have been wrapped again. There is a security guard there 24/7.
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