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Post by johanragle on Nov 25, 2015 13:26:51 GMT -8
Oh please. The Gold Line is quickly getting into commuter rail territory. Lets quit pretending that it would actually be sustainable for Metrolink to have everyone ride for $1.75 no matter the distance. Heck, Seattle's Central Link light rail(which is much closer to our kind of light rail) already uses distance-based fares. Also, Metrolink is fighting an uphill battle with the member agencies. It's hard to compete when each county subsidizes their own system at much a higher percentage rate from the same pot of money. There's no reason why most of San Bernardino Line shouldn't be double tracked. Metrolink will also be a faster ride than the Gold Line ever will if it goes to Montclair to get to LA. Also, unlike the Gold Line, 83% of Metrolink riders are choice riders. The fact that the member agencies put Metrolink so low on the funding totem pole when it's the most productive in getting cars off the road continues to boggle my mind. How would you suggest Metro adopt distance-based fares, however? They aren't structured like a commuter railroad, so while it makes perfect sense for Metrolink to sell station-to-station roundtrip passes based on distance, I don't see how you can adopt that system-wide on Metro without confusing the hell out of (and pissing off) all the urban transit riders. BRU would have a field day. Cutting the free one-way transfer window down to 1 hour or less might work but even that would make a lot of people unhappy.
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Post by Transit Coalition on Nov 25, 2015 17:25:47 GMT -8
Oh please. The Gold Line is quickly getting into commuter rail territory. Lets quit pretending that it would actually be sustainable for Metrolink to have everyone ride for $1.75 no matter the distance. Heck, Seattle's Central Link light rail(which is much closer to our kind of light rail) already uses distance-based fares. Also, Metrolink is fighting an uphill battle with the member agencies. It's hard to compete when each county subsidizes their own system at much a higher percentage rate from the same pot of money. There's no reason why most of San Bernardino Line shouldn't be double tracked. Metrolink will also be a faster ride than the Gold Line ever will if it goes to Montclair to get to LA. Also, unlike the Gold Line, 83% of Metrolink riders are choice riders. The fact that the member agencies put Metrolink so low on the funding totem pole when it's the most productive in getting cars off the road continues to boggle my mind. How would you suggest Metro adopt distance-based fares, however? They aren't structured like a commuter railroad, so while it makes perfect sense for Metrolink to sell station-to-station round trip passes based on distance, I don't see how you can adopt that system-wide on Metro without confusing the hell out of (and pissing off) all the urban transit riders. BRU would have a field day. Cutting the free one-way transfer window down to 1 hour or less might work but even that would make a lot of people unhappy. Metro can do distance based fares like is done wherever there are distance based fares in the rest of the world. For bus lines, you issue zone check tickets or tap-on/tap-off. For rail you use tap-on/tap-off. Metrolink uses mileage-based fares, so the same could be used for Metro. However, I don't think the political will is available to switch to distance based fares. Even with a new CEO that understands costs and budgets, getting the Board to consent to steps two or three of the fare increase program is unlikely until after the 2016 sales tax election. Measure R.2 could include more subsidizes to delay a fare increase. Unfortunately, there isn't likely to be funds for service increases which have more utility to the ridership. Oh, this comment about the pretty much defunct Bus Riders Union. The parent corporation pretty much deals with anything but bus issues and the group hasn't really been around since the last fare increase. Except for memories of the brand name, the BRU hasn't been to Metro Board or Committees in a long time.
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Post by johanragle on Nov 26, 2015 17:19:15 GMT -8
Unfortunately, there isn't likely to be funds for service increases which have more utility to the ridership. Oh, this comment about the pretty much defunct Bus Riders Union. The parent corporation pretty much deals with anything but bus issues and the group hasn't really been around since the last fare increase. Except for memories of the brand name, the BRU hasn't been to Metro Board or Committees in a long time. I don't support BRU by the way, was just pointing out that a switch to distance-based fares would give them even more ammo than the last fare increase did. On the other hand, the expiration of their last court victory seems to have pretty much neutered them, and good riddance - those meandering routes they forced Metro to prop up were worse than useless. Tap-on, tap-off makes sense, although it would require locking the turnstiles in both directions - and at ungated stations people will still forget, which I guess would mean the system would automatically charge the maximum fare after a certain amount of time has passed. I think a fare change would be tolerable if we could get systemwide 30-minute maximum headways. It'd be nice if people didn't have to wait an hour just because they missed a connection by a couple of minutes.
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Post by joemagruder on Nov 27, 2015 17:19:24 GMT -8
Would the number of people making long trips justify the cost of installing tap on/tap off machines both at stations and on buses? If so, the CalTrain method is simple: CalTrain charges the maximum fare from the boarding station to the end of the line and then reduces that charge if the user remembers to tap off at a station before that end. E.g., if you board at Mountain View you are charged the fare to San Francisco, but if you get off at Milbrae and remember to tap off, the difference is rebated.
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Post by bzcat on Nov 30, 2015 17:04:24 GMT -8
Tap-in/Tap-out is not rocket science. If you don't tap-out, you get charge the daily maximum... so there is plenty of incentive to tap-out. You don't need to gate the entire system.
I don't think there is a question that Metro rail and BRT will need to go to distance-based fare eventually... the imbalance of distance vs. projected ridership on some rail lines will force the decision soon after Regional Connector opens. The real question is should our regular buses have distance based fare? There is a good argument that you should keep a flat fare to speed up boarding/unloading (e.g. like London - tap-in only on buses, no tap-out). But if buses stay with a single fare, we are back to the old problem where people will choose the route that has lowest fare rather than most efficient routing/timing. i.e. people will be back to taking 720 from Whittier to Santa Monica (for flat fare) rather than taking the Gold/Purple line for part of that trip.
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Post by Philip on Nov 30, 2015 22:50:01 GMT -8
I've spent the last month in Sydney, Australia (I'm here on a work and holiday visa). I've had the privilege of riding their train system and it's terrific - a hybrid of what we have with Metro Rail and Metrolink, not unlike the BART system. They even have the equivalent of the TAP card, called the Opal card.
I bring this up because the Sydney system does distance-based fares. However, there are perks - any transfer made within an hour of the previous ride is free. Also, once you've spent $30 AU riding, you no longer get charged any fares. I've also heard this works if you ride at least 8 times (not sure if it counts the free transfer rides). On Sundays, you can ride the whole system for $2.50 AUS.
It's important to also note that Sydney trains and buses require you to tap off when you exit, so they can calculate the distance traveled.
If you ask me, this beats L.A.'s system by a longshot. I think instituting something like this could be feasible as long as they keep the same incentives.
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Post by bobdavis on Dec 4, 2015 0:08:44 GMT -8
I may have commented on this before, but as the Gold Line Foothill Extension approaches opening day, it has crossed my mind again--the station spacings approach "electric suburban" service, like the Metra Electric line going south from Chicago. Back in the ancient times, Pacific Electric had five stops between First Ave. in Arcadia and Myrtle Ave. in Monrovia. Of course, when the line was laid out back in the early 1900s, stops had to be within walking distance--what one observer calls "mass motoring" was in the far future. And elaborate ticket vending machines were not needed because every car had a conductor who could collect fares and make change.
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Post by bobdavis on Dec 15, 2015 0:03:23 GMT -8
From the last GLFE Board meeting of the year: It seems like even though the line has been turned over to Metro, there's still work to be done. According to one of the reports, the contractors had a "punch list" of 3600 (presumably minor but still significant) items and discrepancies to take care of as of a month or two ago. They're now down to between 400 and 500. This has meant that Metro can run test trains only after the day's work has been done. Since the meeting was at 4:00 PM, I went by the Monrovia yard (officially known as Div. 24) and found the same new cars that were there a week or two ago. I also noticed there were large plastic barriers in place on the access tracks along Shamrock Ave. I went by again after the meeting and found the barriers removed and Metro 750 active. I saw 750 leave the yard and head east toward Duarte, but did not give chase.
One of my sources reports that Metro may hold off on testing until the temporary bypass track is in service at the Little Tokyo station. This will be to accommodate the Regional Connector project, and the bypass work was delayed when merchants and other businesses in the Little Tokyo neighborhood didn't want the area disrupted until after the holiday season. It remains to be seen whether this delay will affect the announced March 5 opening day for the Extension.
Just some more examples of the sort of snags that Henry Huntington didn't have to worry about.
Last month I went out to Azusa to see how one of the last segments of construction work was coming. I refer to the northern extension of Citrus Ave., which will go from the Citrus-Foothill curve to the new parking structure and station at the end of the line. The road is in place north of the Gold Line bridges, but only some preliminary grading has been done south of there. The connecting road involves the City of Azusa, probably the City of Glendora, the developers of the housing north of here, and the GLFE. Work is expected to start next month, but it's highly unlikely that it will be done by Mar. 5. There was some concern that if the railway opens while road construction is still in progress, students from the nearby colleges will take shortcuts through the work area, slowing progress and endangering the students. One possibility was running shuttle buses around the back way to the station, but that's still under discussion.
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Post by bobdavis on Dec 16, 2015 1:26:38 GMT -8
I was in Arcadia today and saw Kiewit and Mass Electric workers near the First Ave. grade crossing. This was probably part of the "punch list" program I heard about at the Board meeting. At Div. 24 there was a "new kid in the GLOC": KS car 1012 had joined the fleet.
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Post by bobdavis on Dec 19, 2015 3:06:56 GMT -8
According to the latest report and a GLFE source, daytime testing will begin today (Dec. 19) and continue through Sunday. I will be out next week to verify that weekday testing is also moving into daylight hours. Metro is planning to begin "burn-in" runs for the new Kinki-Sharyo cars soon, and pre-revenue operation is scheduled to start in mid January. This should allow time to work out any snags before the Mar. 5 opening day.
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Post by bobdavis on Dec 19, 2015 17:06:14 GMT -8
More good news from Gold (Line) Country: The Monrovia Santa Fe station, which has been "stabilized" in a state of "arrested decay" should soon be the site of renovation activity. The city of Monrovia has made a lease agreement with a developer that will see restoration work beginning early next year.
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Post by bobdavis on Jan 3, 2016 23:34:24 GMT -8
The Azusa Downtown parking structure is substantially complete, and it looks like it will be ready for service when the line opens in March. I've received a report that the track barriers at the east end of the Sierra Madre Villa station have been removed, indicating that a new phase of the test program is about to begin. Pre-revenue test and operation should begin later this month.
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Post by bobdavis on Jan 8, 2016 23:23:42 GMT -8
Went by the Arcadia station this evening, waited about ten minutes, and Metro 1014 came by eastbound. First time I've seen a KS LRV out on the main line, and since I've seen 1003 in the Div. 24 yard, it means (unless there are gaps) we now have a dozen of the new cars on the property.
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Post by bobdavis on Jan 13, 2016 20:40:18 GMT -8
In today's Pasadena Star-News, an article by Steve Scauzillo reported that the city of Azusa, Rosedale Land Partners and Azusa Pacific University have requested that Metro delay opening the Azusa-Citrus station until the street construction extending Citrus Ave. to the parking structure is completed. This was supposed to have been done in time for the line opening on March 5, but the project involves the Cities of Azusa and Glendora (it's right on the boundary line), the Rosedale project, the Construction Authority and possibly other entities, such as the LA County Road Dept. Last time I looked, work hadn't started on the Citrus extension, and it may not be done until summertime. This means that drivers will have to take the long way around to get to the parking structure, and students on foot may be tempted to walk through the construction area. If Metro agrees to the request, trains will off-load all passengers at the Azusa Downtown station and turn back at the first crossover east of downtown. (I don't have a track diagram handy--they may wind up going to the end of the line, but with no passengers on board.)
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Post by masonite on Jan 13, 2016 22:53:37 GMT -8
In today's Pasadena Star-News, an article by Steve Scauzillo reported that the city of Azusa, Rosedale Land Partners and Azusa Pacific University have requested that Metro delay opening the Azusa-Citrus station until the street construction extending Citrus Ave. to the parking structure is completed. This was supposed to have been done in time for the line opening on March 5, but the project involves the Cities of Azusa and Glendora (it's right on the boundary line), the Rosedale project, the Construction Authority and possibly other entities, such as the LA County Road Dept. Last time I looked, work hadn't started on the Citrus extension, and it may not be done until summertime. This means that drivers will have to take the long way around to get to the parking structure, and students on foot may be tempted to walk through the construction area. If Metro agrees to the request, trains will off-load all passengers at the Azusa Downtown station and turn back at the first crossover east of downtown. (I don't have a track diagram handy--they may wind up going to the end of the line, but with no passengers on board.) Yes, 4 month delay they are talking for that last station.
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Post by bobdavis on Jan 14, 2016 16:40:01 GMT -8
Latest word on the Azusa Citrus station: It will open along with the other stations on March 5. Between now and then, Metro, Citrus Collge and Azusa Pacific U are expected to work out a shuttle-bus arrangement to work around the street construction.
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Post by bobdavis on Jan 31, 2016 22:20:07 GMT -8
I attended the GLFE Board meeting Wednesday night. The March 5 opening day was reconfirmed, and Metro will work with Citrus College and Azusa Pacific to provide shuttle service between the campuses and the terminal station until the Citrus Ave. extension is complete. This is expect to be some time this summer. Pre-revenue testing hasn't begun yet, I'll keep an eye on the line next week.
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Post by John Ryan on Feb 1, 2016 13:23:24 GMT -8
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Post by bobdavis on Feb 5, 2016 0:38:12 GMT -8
While running errands Thursday afternoon, I stopped in Arcadia, Monrovia and Duarte to see what was happening on the Gold Line. Saw 1007 westbound in Arcadia; although I recall some concerns about the heavy grade from Arcadia station to the Santa Anita Ave. overpass, the unit went right up the grade with no apparent strain.
In Monrovia, nothing much moving in the Div. 24 yard, and the highest number visible from outside the fence (I usually have binoculars in the car to read numbers at a distance) was 1016.
In Duarte, I caught 1007 coming back from Azusa, but didn't see any other cars on the line, even though I waited about 20 minutes for another train. Apparently we still haven't moved into full-on pre-revenue testing yet.
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Post by bobdavis on Feb 9, 2016 19:45:58 GMT -8
One of my fellow Trainorders.com subscribers posted a photo of a 2-car Breda train and a BNSF freight side by side in Azusa. Looks like they're ramping up to full pre-revenue testing.
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Post by bzzzt on Feb 9, 2016 21:42:37 GMT -8
The Monrovia maintenance facility was empty or almost empty of any trains tonight. Spotted a one-car train crossing the IBS with some speed at 7pm.
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Post by metroman on Feb 10, 2016 13:21:23 GMT -8
Metro hopes to get 3 KS cars accepted for revenue service by March 5 opening date.
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Post by tramfan on Feb 16, 2016 11:57:54 GMT -8
At Bergamot station this weekend there was the KS 1018 parked (photo at Expoline fan's Ipernity site); this means that 6 3 train car sets are available as of now possibly even tested and ready to go on any line but most likely on Blue and/or Expo.
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Post by bobdavis on Feb 21, 2016 21:37:38 GMT -8
After a few "false alarms", pre-revenue testing started this morning, (Sunday, Feb. 21). I surveyed the line from Azusa to Arcadia and found trains running at varying intervals from 10 to 15 minutes. They were all Bredas; the KS cars were resting in the Monrovia yard (Div. 24). No signs of activity for the road between the Citrus-Foothill curve and the Azusa Citrus station, so it's probably still in the planning stage.
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Post by masonite on Feb 23, 2016 14:53:11 GMT -8
After a few "false alarms", pre-revenue testing started this morning, (Sunday, Feb. 21). I surveyed the line from Azusa to Arcadia and found trains running at varying intervals from 10 to 15 minutes. They were all Bredas; the KS cars were resting in the Monrovia yard (Div. 24). No signs of activity for the road between the Citrus-Foothill curve and the Azusa Citrus station, so it's probably still in the planning stage. Getting very close and it is always exciting to open a new line in Los Angeles. I will have to check it out as the only part of the rail system I have not been on to date is the Gold Line past Old Town Pasadena (Memorial Park). I think in time the cities here in the SGV will really build and properly plan around their rail stations since the rail stations will likely be the only one in their town (Arcadia, Monrovia, etc..) so it will be a point of pride for them. Another good thing about the Gold Line is that it will be a fast 31.5 mph with station stops from Citrus College according to the new time tables. Remember when everyone complained about Marmion Way and how slow that was. Compare that to Expo Phase I which doesn't even average 18 mph or just the section from Vermont to Downtown which averages 14 mph or far less than half than the Gold Line's speed.
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Post by bobdavis on Feb 25, 2016 18:28:01 GMT -8
I was out watching and photographing the Gold Line in Azusa and Monrovia Tuesday afternoon. Still seeing only 2-car Breda trains, but they are running on closer headways than the Pacific Electric ever did (with the exception of big race days at Santa Anita). At the California Ave. crossing in Monrovia, the eastbound trains really "scorch the ballast". After all, back in the Santa Fe days, the passenger trains raced through here at 65 mph. Westbound is not quite as fast, but they still don't waste any time getting to the Monrovia station stop.
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Post by culvercitylocke on Mar 4, 2016 10:12:18 GMT -8
Reminder: grand opening tomorrow (according to npr)
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Post by matthewb on Mar 5, 2016 13:31:55 GMT -8
Just checked "maps and timetables" on metro.net. The "system map" pdf and "go metro" pdf are updated with the extension. Other maps and gif versions are not updated.
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Post by jdrcrasher on Mar 5, 2016 14:29:25 GMT -8
How long are they doing free rides today?
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Post by coasterfreak18 on Mar 5, 2016 14:59:06 GMT -8
How long are they doing free rides today? Noon to midnight.
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