Historical photos of the Crenshaw Line

[Gokhan]

Los Angeles Railway, which operated narrow-gauge (3 ft 6 in) electric streetcars throughout Los Angeles, also ran lines known as the 5 Line and the G Line through the alignment of then Santa Barbara Avenue (now renamed in the honor of Martin Luther King), Leimert Boulevard, Crenshaw Boulevard, Harbor Subdivision right-of-way, and Hawthorne Avenue.

Alan K. Weeks has recently sent me very rare, never-before-seen photos of this predecessor of the Crenshaw Line, which he himself took on Kodachrome slides circa 1954, in which year he was a 22-year-old railfan. I will post these truly remarkable pictures of the Los Angeles history.

[Gokhan]

First the map of the western portion of the Los Angeles Railway lines. You can see that there were more rail lines back then than they have bus lines now. Make sure to follow the route of the Crenshaw Line. It didn't go north of Vernon but instead there was a bus on Crenshaw north of Vernon. Instead it turned toward Santa Barbara Avenue (now King Boulevard) and headed Downtown on Grand Avenue after traversing through the south edge of Exposition Park.

[Gokhan]

(1) Los Angeles Railway, 5 Line, Car 1403, southbound on Leimert at Stocker, 1954/11/20:



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(2) Los Angeles Railway, 5 Line, Car 1532, southbound at 43rd St & Leimert Bl, 1954/11/20:



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(3) Los Angeles Railway, Football Line, up on Santa Barbara Ave (King Blvd), 1954/11/20:



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(4)Los Angeles Railway, 5 Line, Car 1425, southbound at Crenshaw & 54th St, 1954/11/20:



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[Gokhan]

(5) Los Angeles Railway, 5 Line, Car 1402, southbound on Crenshaw Bl at 60th St, 1954/12/15:



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(6) Los Angeles Railway, 5 Line, Car 1402, southbound At Crenshaw Bl & Harbor Subdivision right-of-way, 1954/12/15:



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(7) Los Angeles Railway, 5 Line, Car 1428 Southbound at Crenshaw Bl at Harbor Subdivision right-of-way, 1954/12/15:



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(8) Los Angeles Railway, 5 Line, Car 1423, northbound at Harbor Subdivision right-of-way & Crenshaw Bl, 1955/05/07:



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[Gokhan]

(9) Los Angeles Railways, 5 Line, Car 1414 southbound at Inglewood Park Cemetery, 1954/12/15



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(10) Los Angeles Railways, 5 Line, Car 1430 northbound at Inglewood Park Cemetery, 1955/05/07:



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(11) Los Angeles Railways, 5 Line Inglewood Park Cemetery substation, 1955/10/15:



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(12) Los Angeles Railways, 5 Line, Car 1426 southbound crossing the AT&SF (BNSF) Harbor Subdivision right-of-way, 1954/12/15:



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[Gokhan]

Alan says, "The Hollywood Park Race track Special Operations was a very big movement in passengers. Attendance was good and so was ridership. Even after rail was gone the bus operation was extensive."

(13) Los Angeles Railway, 5 Line, Car 1414, turning south onto Market St, 1955/05/07:



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(14) Los Angeles Railway, 5 Line, Car 1265, southbound on Market St, 19550507:



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(15) Los Angeles Railway, 5 Line, Car 1331, single-track operation at Arbor Vitae St, 1951/05/21:



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(16) Los Angeles Railway, 5 Line, Cars 1427, Race Track Line, up at Arbor Vitae St 1955/05/21:



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[Gokhan]

Robert (Bob) Leabow commented, "Those lights were turned on by the guys at each end. They turn them on manually when a train is in the "block" between Century and Arbor Vita. It is like having two switches at each end of a hall, where you turn the light on at one end and off at the other."

Alan replied, "Interesting that I never noticed the Three White Lights on the Pole in the right of way near Inglewood Park Racetrack. Slide 015. What about Slide 18 ? Two lights and Different.? Bob's explanation must be correct. Kind of a crude block signal system for single track operation. I saw that there was single track operation but did not notice how they did it. Thanks Bob. Too busy taking the picture and trying to keep from getting hit by a car."

Alan later noted, "My comments about signal lights on the Pole in Slide 18 turned out to be an illusion. On closer examination what I thought to be lights on the pole was a sign on building behind the Street car."

Then Alan commented, "Maybe we could save a billion seven on the Crenshaw Light Rail Line. We could re-install the 5 Line that used to run on Crenshaw. I doubt if Riddley-Thomas would except that. He would prefer to waste 1.7 billion on a Crenshaw Subway. Now that he has become a Supervisor he fashions himself as some kind of Transit Expert."

(17) Los Angeles Railway, 5 Line, Car 1430 Arbor Vitae St line-up, 1955/05/21:



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(18) Los Angeles Railway, 5 Line, Cars 1427-1245 at Arbor Vitae St, 1955/05/21:



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(19) Los Angeles Railway, 5 Line, cars at Hollywood Park Race Track, 1955/05/21:



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(20) - Los Angeles Railway, 5 Line, Car 1420, terminal at Hawthorne Ave, 1954/12/15:



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[Gokhan]

Alan concludes, "Well here we are at the last batch. All were taken at the end of the 5 Line in Hawthorne. Slide # 22 & 23 are before and after shots. Slide # 22 had a lot of trash in the track area. I decided to see what I could do with Photo Shop. With time and patience I removed the trash from the slide. Slide # 23 is the cleaned up slide. It took 20 seconds to take the picture and half an hour to scan and edit and clean up the picture. Only ten thousand more to go but I don't intend to scan too many more.

The Southern end of the 5 Line has special memories for me. In 1937 we moved from 67th St. and Figueroa to 54th St. and Ruthelen St. I started Kindergarten at Western Ave. Grammar School. Then I attended Audubon Jr. High School at Lemert and Stocker. I was thrilled to ride the 8 Line on 54th St up to Crenshaw Bl. Then transferred to the 5 Line car which took us to Jr. High. The Northbound 5 Line cars came from Inglewood and were quite full of passengers. I liked to wait until the car filled up and then get up on the first step and hang on to the hand rail. And away we went. Like riding a cable car in S.F. When it was not as crowded I would get near the conductor and he would let me crank the money and tokens thru the hand cranked Johnson fair box. When school let out we formed a long line single file to board the Southbound 5 Line cars. Some time they had a Loader who let us in the front door. Then I would stand next to the Motorman. After the car left the stop one Motorman I knew would let me notch up the controller the last few points. None of this could ever happen today. Great memories."

(21) Los Angeles Railway, 5 Line, Car 1265, Hawthorne Terminal, 1955/05/07:



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(22) - Notice all the trash in the track area:



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(23) Los Angeles Railway, 5 Line, Car 1429, Hawthorne tracks free of trash, 1954/12/15:



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(24) Los Angeles Railway, 5 Line, Car 1420 At Hawthorne Terminal 1954/12/15:



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(25) Los Angeles Railway, 5 Line, Car 319, at terminal in Hawthorne, 1948/08/15:



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(26) Los Angeles Railway, 5 Line, Car 1275, at Hawthorne Blvd & 122nd, 1948/08/15:



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[metrocenter]

Wow, thanks to Gokhan for posting all those, and Alan Weeks for telling such an interesting (albeit sad) story in pictures.

By the way, based on the fact that all the other slides were on the Crenshaw/Hawthorne route, I would guess that slide 19 is at Hollywood Park, not Santa Anita.

About 20 years ago, L.A. was going to install electric bus routes throughout the city. I remember they had an initial set of around 20 routes planned. I'm not sure what happened to that plan, but I remember it was interesting to compare those routes with the trolley line routes of yesteryear.

[jeisenbe]

Great photos.

I had not realized that the Yellow Cars had an exclusive right-of-way in this area. It makes sense; Crenshaw and Leimert and Hawthorne are all very wide streets with wide medians now. But I thought the Yellow Cars were almost all "streetcars" in the sense of sharing the street with automobile traffic.

If only they had left the tracks in place, we would not be having these discussions of 200+ million dollar grade separations, on the site of a previous at-grade light rail line.

[metrocenter]

For people in L.A. who are going hysterical about safety fears, here's a picture of the South Shore Line in Michigan City, Indiana:




(Michigan City has its problems BTW, but I haven't found any safety issues with its street-running interurbans.)

I wouldn't recommend this all the way down Crenshaw, but it certainly would be fine through Park Mesa (Alan Weeks' Slides 4 through 7).

[Gokhan]

Sept 15, 2010 13:05:08 GMT -8 metrocenter said:

For people in L.A. who are going hysterical about safety fears, here's a picture of the South Shore Line in Michigan City, Indiana:

Note that this is street-running heavy rail -- heavy rail in the worldwide, literal sense, referring to heavy commuter or freight trains (as opposed to the US-only sense referring to rapid transit).

It's interesting that some cities even have street-running heavy rail but we're getting opposition to median-running light-rail (with tracks separated from the traffic lanes, therefore not even street-running, and "light-," not even "heavy" rail).

[saltire08]

Sept 15, 2010 14:07:50 GMT -8 Gokhan said:

Sept 15, 2010 13:05:08 GMT -8 metrocenter said:

For people in L.A. who are going hysterical about safety fears, here's a picture of the South Shore Line in Michigan City, Indiana:

Note that this is street-running heavy rail -- heavy rail in the worldwide, literal sense, referring to heavy commuter or freight trains (as opposed to the US-only sense referring to rapid transit).

It's interesting that some cities even have street-running heavy rail but we're getting opposition to median-running light-rail (with tracks separated from the traffic lanes, therefore not even street-running, and "light-," not even "heavy" rail).

The whole safety thing is getting ridiculous. Why don't we buy everyone bubble wrap - maybe then people won't get hurt.

I grew up outside of Philly and some of the SEPTA lines were like the photos of Michigan City. It wasn't a problem at all. Here is an example of one of the SEPTA stations: www.bing.com/maps/?v=2&cp=qn376w8qfj8z&scene=39900883&lvl=2&sty=b&where1=Marcus%20Hook%2C%20PA

It's the Marcus Hook stop. The yellow lines are painted on the ground, with tiny foot platforms that the train doors align with when the train stops. It's not rocket science. When they built this station they probably spent more money on the station sign than they did on the platforms. Is it some architectural masterpiece? No, but it's functional and that's what people care about: get me from A to B as fast as possible.

People flip out so much about little things in this city and it causes everything to come to a grinding halt. We really need to turn the tables and improve the PR of rail, because right now the NIMBYs/Alarmists are much louder. Sure, a lot of what they say makes no sense to people who understand rail, but most citizens don't understand the intricacies of rail.

If the above station was proposed in LA, the amount of angry mail that the Metro Board would receive would fill up the Dodger Stadium parking lot.

[metrocenter]

While I'm a fan of high standards, I often think about other rail systems I've used, where they just literally put some tracks in the street, and that was it. Need a platform for ADA? Fine, then you pour some concrete, and there's your platform. String some wires and add a power substation, and your done.

Up until recently, many NYC subway stations were lit with - get this - incandescent bulbs. I know it sounds cheap, but if a bulb were to blow out, a station attendant could go screw in a new bulb.

When L.A. built its streetcars, you know it didn't cost that much to build. They dug up the street and put in rails. Maybe curbs around the median. Big deal. Rail was cheap to install. You see rail crisscrossing industrial areas all over the Southland, where land values are so low, precisely because it was cheap to do.

Now there are so many systems involved and so many safety features to install, that it's going to cost nearly $2 billion just to build the Expo Line from Downtown LA to Santa Monica.

A big part of it is the contracting system. Everything is contracted out, and the prices get inflated because there are so few players in the marketplace. The result is fiascos like the "Muni Meltdown", which I experienced in San Francisco in the late 90s, where you have systems that are so complicated, that nobody understands how to fix the problems except the contractor.

[saltire08]

Sept 16, 2010 7:49:10 GMT -8 metrocenter said:

While I'm a fan of high standards, I often think about other rail systems I've used, where they just literally put some tracks in the street, and that was it. Need a platform for ADA? Fine, then you pour some concrete, and there's your platform. String some wires and add a power substation, and your done.

Up until recently, many NYC subway stations were lit with - get this - incandescent bulbs. I know it sounds cheap, but if a bulb were to blow out, a station attendant could go screw in a new bulb.

When L.A. built its streetcars, you know it didn't cost that much to build. They dug up the street and put in rails. Maybe curbs around the median. Big deal. Rail was cheap to install. You see rail crisscrossing industrial areas all over the Southland, where land values are so low, precisely because it was cheap to do.

Now there are so many systems involved and so many safety features to install, that it's going to cost nearly $2 billion just to build the Expo Line from Downtown LA to Santa Monica.

A big part of it is the contracting system. Everything is contracted out, and the prices get inflated because there are so few players in the marketplace. The result is fiascos like the "Muni Meltdown", which I experienced in San Francisco in the late 90s, where you have systems that are so complicated, that nobody understands how to fix the problems except the contractor.

Great points. Is there any feasible way to drive costs down specifically related to the contracting?

[bobdavis]

Part of the problem is the proliferation of "ambulance chasing" lawyers (my younger daughter, who is a lawyer, has little use for this segment of her profession). Systems have to be built so that someone can't say year later "You didn't use the 'best practices' and are therefore guilty of negligence." And "contracting" is the way railways have been built since the days of wood-burning steamengines. Eliminate some of the bureaucracy and government regulation, and see costs go down. Another factor is the "build for the ages" mindset. I used to live next to a Pacific Electric line; it was totally worn out after 45 years and PE didn't have the money to rebuild it. The Gold Line looks like it will still be running with minor maintenance long after the half-century mark. The pioneering modern-day light rail line in the US was the San Diego line to San Ysidro. It was built without Federal funding, which made the process a lot quicker. Time-tested cars were imported from Germany, stations were Spartan by present standards, some of the line was single track, and a number of grade separations were built after it opened. Back in the 90's I was on a preview fan trip to the then-new SD Trolley station at Santee. I had a chance to meet State Senator James Mills, who laid the legislative ground work that got the original trolley line built. I mentioned coming from the San Gabriel Valley, and how we were looking forward to what is now the Gold Line. I forget the exact numbers, but he said something like "Way too expensive" and quoted a cost figure (presumably if he were running the project) that was about a quarter or a third of what the line wound up costing.

[Deleted]

Sept 14, 2010 14:06:28 GMT -8 Gokhan said:

First the map of the western portion of the Los Angeles Railway lines. You can see that there were more rail lines back then than they have bus lines now. Make sure to follow the route of the Crenshaw Line. It didn't go north of Vernon but instead there was a bus on Crenshaw north of Vernon. Instead it turned toward Santa Barbara Avenue (now King Boulevard) and headed Downtown on Grand Avenue after traversing through the south edge of Exposition Park.

Geez. I happened to come across this in some railroad research. I hadn't thought about LARy in a long time, Grew up down there...remember the Yellow Carline, the PE Red Cars.
Freaked me out a bit seeing the Yellow Cars on Crenshaw....had to make some calls and then blow up the map a bit. Forgot about the "jog" up north and the line near Leimert. We were further south...110th. Great grandparents live between Lemoli and Yukon. Great Grandad rode the line to work at the bank every day. Probably from Hawthorne Blvd.
I have questions....when was the map printed? Nobody remembers "Cypress Avenue", should be Crenshaw down there south? Only "Cypress" I found is just south of the Los Angeles Municipal Airport, goes a block or so. Just puzzled.
I remember Normandie, Vermont line (clear to Hollywood), but try as I might, cannot recall if Vermont was yellow or red.
Grandfather on Dad's side was a streetcar conductor at one point....I think LARy, but nobody left to ask specifically.
In my research, I find reference to Narbonne. Now on the map I see Cypress. Were they all former names of Crenshaw?
I'll have more.
Good reading..we're going through "light rail transit" up here, after they held the interurban right of way clear for 50 years.....then allowed development....then decided to buy land and build.
Last time I was down that way, the double tracks of the PE still crossed Pacific Coast Highway at the base of Signal Hill.

[bobdavis]

The Vermont line (at least what was left at the end) ran on Vernon and Vermont, and was designated the "V" line. It was one of the last five "Yellow Car" lines and was the only one that didn't go downtown. After the streetcar system quit on March 31, 1963 (also known as Die Day in LA) the V line provided access to Vernon Yard, where the remaining streetcars were stored pending disposal.