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Post by carter on Sept 26, 2011 20:21:33 GMT -8
I listened in on the LA City Council Ad Hoc Downtown Stadium Committee hearing this morning, in which AEG presented some preliminary thoughts about its stadium transpo plan. The big highlight is that an AEG rep announced that it is in serious talks with Metro and LA City about adding a second platform for the Blue/Expo Pico Station and removing a lane of Flower to do so. Streetsblog live tweeted the event and has more details there: twitter.com/lastreetsblogcarter, I saw that tweeted this morning too. Was there any mention of the expanded station being grade separated from at least the pedestrian flow? RT No, they didn't mention grade separation. They didn't really divulge much beyond the "one more platform."
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Post by bluelineshawn on Sept 27, 2011 7:36:58 GMT -8
carter, I saw that tweeted this morning too. Was there any mention of the expanded station being grade separated from at least the pedestrian flow? RT What do you mean by grade separated? If you mean move the station above or below ground, that's just not a reasonable solution. Not only would it cost a huge amount of money, but the blue and expo lines would need a bus bridge for a couple of years while it is built. To me, the most reasonable solution is to build another platform south of Pico for southbound trips and use the existing platform for northbound trips. Currently there are three lanes on Flower south of Pico. To build a platform one of the three lanes would need to be removed. But it's not as bad as it sounds because currently the far right lane is used for parking. Even at rush hour IIRC. If you eliminate parking for the length of the station (it's probably only 10 spaces or so with all of the driveways and restrictions) we're back to the same number of lanes that exist now. If anything is done to grade separate, it should be for pedestrians by building a pedestrian tunnel under (or a bridge over) Flower. That allows the trains to keep running (mostly). But I don't think even that will be necessary. Having boarding on opposite sides of Pico will greatly improve pedestrian flow.
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Post by metrocenter on Sept 27, 2011 7:44:24 GMT -8
This is great news. Guessing that they liked my idea of a southbound only platform south of Pico. If they build a new southbound-only platform, does it make sense to make the existing platform northbound-only? It certainly would be easy to do: they would just put up a barrier/fence along the western edge of the existing platform, preventing access to the southbound train. Doing this would be very good for crowd management. Before an event, you would have two smaller flows of people arriving, physically separated from each other. And after an event, you'd have two separate waiting areas, each as large as a full platform. A key component of this (which is still a question-mark) is how to redesign the crossings at Pico and 12th Street for the large pedestrian flows. They might want to add a separate pedestrian-crossing phase into the traffic light cycle, for event days.
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Post by rubbertoe on Sept 27, 2011 8:53:39 GMT -8
carter, I saw that tweeted this morning too. Was there any mention of the expanded station being grade separated from at least the pedestrian flow? RT What do you mean by grade separated?...If anything is done to grade separate, it should be for pedestrians by building a pedestrian tunnel under (or a bridge over) Flower. That allows the trains to keep running (mostly). But I don't think even that will be necessary. Having boarding on opposite sides of Pico will greatly improve pedestrian flow. A pedestrian bridge so Blue Line riders don't need to cross the tracks is exactly what I meant. If they build a new platform for Southbound trains South of Pico, then a pedestrian bridge there isn't required since no one will be crossing the tracks to get to the new platform. Where the bridge is really needed is for the NB platform, especially if it is a small platform like the current one. You don't want thousands of people trying to cross a track after the game, just at the precise time that you are also trying to move large numbers of trains down the track. It just doesn't work. The first event at the Coliseum where the Expo line is used will demonstrate this, I may even take some video to document what happens. There was some discussion here a few weeks ago about having one or two pedestrian bridges connecting the station directly to the NW corner of Pico and Figueroa. That gets the people off street level, making vehicle access easier too as well as helping the trains move more freely. RT
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Post by carter on Sept 27, 2011 10:31:55 GMT -8
carter, I saw that tweeted this morning too. Was there any mention of the expanded station being grade separated from at least the pedestrian flow? RT What do you mean by grade separated? If you mean move the station above or below ground, that's just not a reasonable solution. Not only would it cost a huge amount of money, but the blue and expo lines would need a bus bridge for a couple of years while it is built. To me, the most reasonable solution is to build another platform south of Pico for southbound trips and use the existing platform for northbound trips. Currently there are three lanes on Flower south of Pico. To build a platform one of the three lanes would need to be removed. But it's not as bad as it sounds because currently the far right lane is used for parking. Even at rush hour IIRC. If you eliminate parking for the length of the station (it's probably only 10 spaces or so with all of the driveways and restrictions) we're back to the same number of lanes that exist now. If anything is done to grade separate, it should be for pedestrians by building a pedestrian tunnel under (or a bridge over) Flower. That allows the trains to keep running (mostly). But I don't think even that will be necessary. Having boarding on opposite sides of Pico will greatly improve pedestrian flow. The AEG rep specifically mentioned taking a lane of Flower to build the second platform.
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Post by rubbertoe on Sept 27, 2011 11:03:39 GMT -8
That seems more logical to me than a new platform South of Pico. South of Pico would require taking a bunch of buildings down, versus just removing a lane from Flower.
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Post by JerardWright on Sept 27, 2011 12:38:05 GMT -8
This is great news. Guessing that they liked my idea of a southbound only platform south of Pico. If they build a new southbound-only platform, does it make sense to make the existing platform northbound-only? It certainly would be easy to do: they would just put up a barrier/fence along the western edge of the existing platform, preventing access to the southbound train. Doing this would be very good for crowd management. Before an event, you would have two smaller flows of people arriving, physically separated from each other. And after an event, you'd have two separate waiting areas, each as large as a full platform. A key component of this (which is still a question-mark) is how to redesign the crossings at Pico and 12th Street for the large pedestrian flows. They might want to add a separate pedestrian-crossing phase into the traffic light cycle, for event days. That can be a very important component, this may include closing off Flower Street between 12th and Pico to handle this pedestrian flow.initially. Also by having the second platform on Flower Street, that would reduce the potential conflicts by 50% as that there's not longer the need to have everyone crowd onto one platform. Long answer Metrocenter is yes, that there's a benefit to this as when the Regional Connector comes into play as this can enable one platform to be for North and East bound destinations (Union Station, SG Valley, Eastside) and one for South and West bound destinations (Long Beach and West LA/Santa Monica). So its a solution to one micro scale problem (Farmers Field) and a Macro scale (Regional Connector boarding)
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Post by JerardWright on Sept 27, 2011 12:44:21 GMT -8
well, certainly double-decker cars would be possible, as this Tokaido Line train shows. They get most of their "second deck" by being built lower to the ground, and aren't that much taller than the regular trains, to avoid bumping the roof of tunnels... (or 7th/ Metro station). Note that there are obvious differences: Japanese train service blurs the line between commuter rail and "metro rail"; the double-decker cars are marked as Green Cars (higher class, reserved); the Tokaido Line includes rapid, express trains that skip stops (fewer stops means more time to head for the exit of a double-decker car). It seems like other solutions might be tried. Moving excess passengers from the Blue Line onto a Vermont or Harbor Freeway rail or bus line, for example. What about the articulation of our LRV's? That might be the joint that will make building a rail car like this problematic. However, building that parallel relief line is the tried and true way to solve this problem, in addition to adding more mid-point destinations such as development of Washington, Florence, Compton(in the works) as satellite activity centers so that you have an improved density of riders only needing to travel a shorter trip distance.
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Post by James Fujita on Sept 27, 2011 13:38:48 GMT -8
Jerry Brown today signed the bill to speed up Farmers Field planning.
In exchange for speeding up environmental challenges (something that sounds like it might be useful for Expo Rail, Crenshaw, the Purple Line, HSR, etc.), AEG has to give more consideration to mass transit in constructing the stadium.
I would love to see a second platform at Pico Station. That would certainly help with both NFL games and all sorts of events at Staples Center, LA Live, LACC, etc.
Some auto traffic would end up on Fig, but that street is bigger and wider than Flower anyways.
And again, I would reiterate there really ought to be either a pedestrian bridge or tunnel to keep pedestrians/ trains/ traffic flowing near the stadium.
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Post by bluelineshawn on Sept 27, 2011 13:54:29 GMT -8
This is great news. Guessing that they liked my idea of a southbound only platform south of Pico. If they build a new southbound-only platform, does it make sense to make the existing platform northbound-only? It certainly would be easy to do: they would just put up a barrier/fence along the western edge of the existing platform, preventing access to the southbound train. Doing this would be very good for crowd management. Before an event, you would have two smaller flows of people arriving, physically separated from each other. And after an event, you'd have two separate waiting areas, each as large as a full platform. Yes, that's exactly what I meant.
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Post by bluelineshawn on Sept 27, 2011 14:03:09 GMT -8
A pedestrian bridge so Blue Line riders don't need to cross the tracks is exactly what I meant. If they build a new platform for Southbound trains South of Pico, then a pedestrian bridge there isn't required since no one will be crossing the tracks to get to the new platform. Where the bridge is really needed is for the NB platform, especially if it is a small platform like the current one. You don't want thousands of people trying to cross a track after the game, just at the precise time that you are also trying to move large numbers of trains down the track. It just doesn't work. The first event at the Coliseum where the Expo line is used will demonstrate this, I may even take some video to document what happens. There was some discussion here a few weeks ago about having one or two pedestrian bridges connecting the station directly to the NW corner of Pico and Figueroa. That gets the people off street level, making vehicle access easier too as well as helping the trains move more freely. RT Riders would indeed be required to cross the tracks to board a new southbound-only platform. It would be located just west of the existing southbound track. I don't think that it will be an issue because they would cross with the light and it's at an intersection already. If it is an issue, I guess that they might be able to add a pedestrian bridge, but the platform would have to be significantly larger to avoid the overhead lines. I'm not sure how feasible that is.
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Post by bluelineshawn on Sept 27, 2011 14:04:32 GMT -8
What do you mean by grade separated? If you mean move the station above or below ground, that's just not a reasonable solution. Not only would it cost a huge amount of money, but the blue and expo lines would need a bus bridge for a couple of years while it is built. To me, the most reasonable solution is to build another platform south of Pico for southbound trips and use the existing platform for northbound trips. Currently there are three lanes on Flower south of Pico. To build a platform one of the three lanes would need to be removed. But it's not as bad as it sounds because currently the far right lane is used for parking. Even at rush hour IIRC. If you eliminate parking for the length of the station (it's probably only 10 spaces or so with all of the driveways and restrictions) we're back to the same number of lanes that exist now. If anything is done to grade separate, it should be for pedestrians by building a pedestrian tunnel under (or a bridge over) Flower. That allows the trains to keep running (mostly). But I don't think even that will be necessary. Having boarding on opposite sides of Pico will greatly improve pedestrian flow. The AEG rep specifically mentioned taking a lane of Flower to build the second platform. Yes. And so did I. I was attempting to detail which lane I hope that they mean.
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Post by bluelineshawn on Sept 27, 2011 14:08:43 GMT -8
That seems more logical to me than a new platform South of Pico. South of Pico would require taking a bunch of buildings down, versus just removing a lane from Flower. Isn't that what I already described? I suggested that a new platform be installed south of Pico for southbound-only traffic by removing one of the existing traffic lanes.
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Post by bluelineshawn on Sept 27, 2011 14:13:04 GMT -8
If they build a new southbound-only platform, does it make sense to make the existing platform northbound-only? It certainly would be easy to do: they would just put up a barrier/fence along the western edge of the existing platform, preventing access to the southbound train. Doing this would be very good for crowd management. Before an event, you would have two smaller flows of people arriving, physically separated from each other. And after an event, you'd have two separate waiting areas, each as large as a full platform. A key component of this (which is still a question-mark) is how to redesign the crossings at Pico and 12th Street for the large pedestrian flows. They might want to add a separate pedestrian-crossing phase into the traffic light cycle, for event days. That can be a very important component, this may include closing off Flower Street between 12th and Pico to handle this pedestrian flow.initially. Also by having the second platform on Flower Street, that would reduce the potential conflicts by 50% as that there's not longer the need to have everyone crowd onto one platform. Long answer Metrocenter is yes, that there's a benefit to this as when the Regional Connector comes into play as this can enable one platform to be for North and East bound destinations (Union Station, SG Valley, Eastside) and one for South and West bound destinations (Long Beach and West LA/Santa Monica). So its a solution to one micro scale problem (Farmers Field) and a Macro scale (Regional Connector boarding) I don't think that Flower will need to be closed. But I do think that they will need to look at off platform ticketing like you suggested way back when and like they do at many Expo stations. Something on the sidewalks on both sides of Flower and maybe even at the stadium.
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Post by rubbertoe on Sept 27, 2011 14:51:38 GMT -8
A pedestrian bridge so Blue Line riders don't need to cross the tracks is exactly what I meant. If they build a new platform for Southbound trains South of Pico, then a pedestrian bridge there isn't required since no one will be crossing the tracks to get to the new platform. Where the bridge is really needed is for the NB platform, especially if it is a small platform like the current one. You don't want thousands of people trying to cross a track after the game, just at the precise time that you are also trying to move large numbers of trains down the track. It just doesn't work. The first event at the Coliseum where the Expo line is used will demonstrate this, I may even take some video to document what happens. There was some discussion here a few weeks ago about having one or two pedestrian bridges connecting the station directly to the NW corner of Pico and Figueroa. That gets the people off street level, making vehicle access easier too as well as helping the trains move more freely. RT Riders would indeed be required to cross the tracks to board a new southbound-only platform. It would be located just west of the existing southbound track. Shawn, I'm not getting this at all. If they build a new platform that is South of the current platform, keep the tracks where they currently are, and take a lane of Flower to locate the new platform, I don't see how anyone would need to cross the tracks when using that new platform. See pic below. The new platform is shown in red. Anyone using that platform and going to Staples will not be crossing any tracks..
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Post by bluelineshawn on Sept 27, 2011 16:19:34 GMT -8
You are correct. Riders wouldn't necessarily need to cross the tracks to get to from the platform to Farmers Field or Staples. Only those heading east or boarding from the east side would need to cross the tracks. But some riders will need to cross the tracks. That's all that I meant. Sorry for the confusion.
But your shot does show what I mean about removing a lane, yet not effecting traffic. You can see cars parked on the far west side of Flower. Get rid of that parking and another lane becomes available to replace the one being removed.
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Post by roadtrainer on Sept 27, 2011 18:50:58 GMT -8
You are correct. Riders wouldn't necessarily need to cross the tracks to get to from the platform to Farmers Field or Staples. Only those heading east or boarding from the east side would need to cross the tracks. But some riders will need to cross the tracks. That's all that I meant. Sorry for the confusion. But your shot does show what I mean about removing a lane, yet not effecting traffic. You can see cars parked on the far west side of Flower. Get rid of that parking and another lane becomes available to replace the one being removed. I’ve read about your ideas for a track alignment, which is interesting, but what is really needed for Farmer’s Field is a good old fashion Wye! It is the entrance for the Farmer’s Field Station, look at article I got from Wikipedia.Com. It makes sense that trains can be parked there during the lay over between the Monday through Friday rush hour and for the big Games I.E. Lakers, Kings, Clippers, and the future L.A Football team. Wye (rail) From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia A Wye or triangular junction, in rail terminology, is a triangular shaped arrangement of rail tracks with a switch or set of points at each corner. In mainline railroads, this can be used at a rail junction, where three rail lines join, in order to allow trains to pass from any line to any other line. Wye's can also be used for turning railway equipment. By performing the railway equivalent of a three point turn, the direction of a locomotive or railway vehicle can be swapped around, leaving it facing in the direction from which it came. Where a Wye is built specifically for turning purposes, one or more of the tracks making up the junction will typically be a stub siding. Tram or streetcar tracks also make use of triangular junctions and sometimes have a short triangle or Wye stubs to turn the car at the end of the line.
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Post by erict on Sept 27, 2011 18:54:23 GMT -8
If they (AEG) do decide to build a new side station (a great idea) would it only be opened during special events or would it be always in operation? I would hope that this Pico 2 station would be open all of the time, since the current station is really small.
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Post by LAofAnaheim on Sept 27, 2011 20:46:51 GMT -8
If they (AEG) do decide to build a new side station (a great idea) would it only be opened during special events or would it be always in operation? I would hope that this Pico 2 station would be open all of the time, since the current station is really small. How would this work with the Regional Connector? Also, when people are taking the Expo/Blue Line trains and they want to go to 7th street/Metro Center to transfer to the Red, Purple or Gold (via subway), does that mean they have to wait for every other train?
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Post by James Fujita on Sept 27, 2011 23:11:06 GMT -8
A special station seems like a tricky proposition. If it's open all the time, there are times on the LACC/ Staples Center/ Farmers Field/ L.A. Live calendar where the ridership from special events would not be enough to justify running every second/ third/ fourth train to the wye instead of to/ from 7th/ Metro and beyond on the Regional Connector. If it's only open for special events, which events are special enough (Anime Expo boasts 100,000 attendance, would that be enough?); who would decide when to operate the station? Who pays for the extra trains? Incidentally, a pedestrian bridge wouldn't have to be that tall. I hope we're not confusing the bridges built at Amtrak stations for freight railroad clearance with something similar to what they have at 7th/ Metro.
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Post by LAofAnaheim on Sept 28, 2011 8:35:10 GMT -8
There are more people, especially between the hours of 5 pm to 8 pm, wanting to go to other destinations than LA Live!, Staples Center or Farmers Field. Creating a new wye station will cause havoc and confusion. Also, imagine if you were at Culver City station and wanting to get to 7th street/Metro Center station. Now, you'll have to wait for every other Expo Line train to get to your destination. I just cannot fathom building a wye or new station being any benefit at all. For people who cannot walk 2 blocks......that's just unhealthy.
The SF Giants stadium is 6 blocks from Caltrain, Wrigley Field's station entrance is a walk around the stadium, Yankees stadium requires a 2-3 block walk, etc.......... How lazy do we have to be to build a station to cut down on a 2 block walk?
I agree with others on the pedestrian bridge concept. That I can fully support and would love to advocate for. A nice pedestrian bridge between 12th/Flower up to Figueroa/12th would be a good experience. That makes clear sense.
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Post by erict on Sept 28, 2011 17:17:59 GMT -8
Why would side stations make a difference beyond helping Pico? Northbound trains would board on the current station, and southbound on the new station. The current center station would be open only on one side. Where would the wye be? Maybe I am missing something obvious.
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Post by Gokhan on Feb 4, 2012 11:21:48 GMT -8
Stabbing at Metro Blue Line 7th Street/Metro Center Station
At approximately 2:03 p.m. this afternoon, a stabbing occurred at the Metro Blue Line (MBL) 7th/Metro Station. It appears that two male black adults had a verbal confrontation which escalated to a physical altercation. One of the combatants produced a knife and stabbed the other. The suspect ran off, possibly making his exit by running on the track and then running toward the Metro Red Line. A witness apparently saw the suspect throw something in a trash can on the MBL platform. A knife was discovered in the trash can by Los Angeles County Sheriff’s Department (LASD) deputies. The victim was transported to County USC Medical Center with non-life threatening wounds. LASD deputies have the 7th/Figueroa entrance of the MBL station closed and are re-routing patrons to other entrances. Minor delays in service are reported. Media Relations responded to the scene. No media reported at the location; however calls from KCBS/KCAL News have been received. Stories may air later today.
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Post by metrocenter on Feb 23, 2012 10:52:58 GMT -8
Blue Line out of service for much of the morning. Major power outage at 5:40 AM today at Long Beach Yard. Most service was restored by 9:00 AM.
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Post by roadtrainer on Feb 24, 2012 11:58:47 GMT -8
"Im trying tyro remember, But 'a while back Metro debated on purchasing a "a diesel powered rescue train" but they changed their minds. They could have used it yesterday to pull train sets out of the powerless Blue line yard, and up to the main line where there was power. I bet they are kicking themselves now!
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Post by joshuanickel on Feb 24, 2012 15:17:15 GMT -8
"Im trying tyro remember, But 'a while back Metro debated on purchasing a "a diesel powered rescue train" but they changed their minds. They could have used it yesterday to pull train sets out of the powerless Blue line yard, and up to the main line where there was power. I bet they are kicking themselves now! Doesn't the truck that metro uses to tow trains already have the ability to without using the OCS? They have used it most recently on the expo line when testing clearance issues.
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Post by roadtrainer on Feb 24, 2012 23:09:31 GMT -8
I wondered about that too, but the trains have an upward grade climb to the main line, I don't know if the truck can pull that amount of weight. Does anyone know about this truck? Is it capable? Sincerely The Roadtrainer
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Post by bluelineshawn on Mar 26, 2012 18:25:59 GMT -8
More blue line power problems after two days of rain (but none today). As bad or worse than last month. I also saw a stalled train yesterday right outside the train yard and we single tracked from just south of Artesia Station until Wardlow. From The SourceDue to several equipment issues throughout entire line, Metro customers are advised to anticipate significant delays today when traveling on the Blue Line.
As of 3:30 p.m., trains are serving ALL stations. Additionally, trains both ways are sharing the northbound track at the following stations: Florence, Slauson and Vernon. This is creating a significant delay due to train congestion and rush hour crowds.
Here is the current service plan in place for affected customers:
Blue Line is running according to the following schedule, subject to delays:
Every 10 min between 7th/Metro and Washington Every 20 min between Washington and Florence Every 10 min between Florence and LB Transit Mall Every other southbound train will turn around at Washington due to limited single track capacity Every other northbound train will turn around at Florence due to limited single track capacity Bus shuttles will be provided for passengers on trains that turn around Power has been restored and trains are sharing one track between Grand and 7th/Metro stations.
Bus shuttles (20 have been requested) are in place between Washington and Florence stations to supplement limited train capacity. Follow train and station announcements for these bus shuttles.
All Blue Line passengers between Long Beach and Imperial/Wilmington should consider using the Silver Line as an alternate.
Silver Line up-charge will be WAIVED for affected Blue Line passengers. To use the Silver Line from 7th/Metro, walk to Flower/7th in front of The Coffee Bean, board Silver Line “Artesia Transit Center”, exit at Harbor Fwy/I-105 Station and transfer to Green Line trains upstairs. To use the Silver Line from Imperial/Wilmington, board the Green Line towards Redondo Beach, exit at Harbor Fwy, and proceed downstairs to the Northbound Express bus stop. Green Line passengers who normally use the Blue Line to travel Downtown may also consider the following alternates:
Norwalk – Use Line 460 Long Beach Boulevard – Use Line 760 Harbor Fwy – Use Silver Line or 450. Express upcharges WAIVED today. Crenshaw – Use Line 710 or 757 to Purple Line Hawthorne – Use Line 740 Aviation/LAX – Use LADOT Commuter Express 438 (Rush Only) Please allow extra travel time, especially when connecting to Metrolink trains or other lines.
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Post by Gokhan on Mar 27, 2012 18:40:00 GMT -8
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Post by rubbertoe on Apr 3, 2012 5:28:07 GMT -8
According to the LA Times today, the EIR for the proposed downtown stadium will be released Thursday. All 10,000 pages of it. The story said that there is $2.5 million slated for freeway improvements, and $10 million for light rail improvements. We will know in 2 days what that $10 million proposes to do. Also, the guy with the $$$ is now saying that he is willing to buy an entire team versus the 50% he was previously pitching. I guess the fact that a sports team in LA just sold for $2,000,000,000 brought things into a better focus for him RT
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