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Post by carter on Mar 8, 2011 16:11:32 GMT -8
This will be a boon to the Rapid 7, which is already one of the best bus lines in LA, especially when you add in the new articulated buses. I might actually be able to get a seat among all the SMC students I caught a glance of one of the new articulated BBB driving on the 10 last week. They look great in the BBB livery.
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Post by carter on Jun 7, 2011 12:24:10 GMT -8
Has there ever been consideration given to running express buses from the Culver City Expo station to Santa Monica?
This could be in the form of some special 733s that would make their regular East West trip from DTLA to Culver City Expo station and then hop on the 10 Freeway the rest of the way, thus mimicking Phase 2 (sort of). Or just have those buses continue running down Venice, but with fewer stops.
Not sure it's practical -- for instance, the BBB 10 would probably still be the fastest LA-SM ride, even with Expo + express connection -- but I just thought I'd open it up discussion. Apologies if it's already been hashed out.
Thanks for your thoughts.
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Post by LAofAnaheim on Jun 7, 2011 12:43:43 GMT -8
Has there ever been consideration given to running express buses from the Culver City Expo station to Santa Monica? This could be in the form of some special 733s that would make their regular East West trip from DTLA to Culver City Expo station and then hop on the 10 Freeway the rest of the way, thus mimicking Phase 2 (sort of). Or just have those buses continue running down Venice, but with fewer stops. Not sure it's practical -- for instance, the BBB 10 would probably still be the fastest LA-SM ride, even with Expo + express connection -- but I just thought I'd open it up discussion. Apologies if it's already been hashed out. Thanks for your thoughts. Actually..I've been thinking about this a lot recently. I take the Big Blue Bus 10 daily from 9th/Grand to Santa Monica/Cloverfield. I work at the Yahoo! Center, so the Bergamont Station is going to be huge for me as it will be walking distance from my office. And I live 2 blocks from 9th/Grand. But yeah, when the Expo Line opens to Culver City (disregarding an early open to La Cienega), eventhough a new option of Expo Line --> Big Blue Bus 5 will somewhat replicate the route, the time will still take longer than the BBB 10 Freeway Express. I think Big Blue should run a shorter express route in addition to the current BBB 10. Pick up from Venice/Robertson and get on the 10 freeway and then exit Bundy as usual. When Expo opens to Santa Monica, both express buses can be eliminated and the money can be put to alternative routes.
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Post by wad on Jun 8, 2011 3:53:05 GMT -8
Has there ever been consideration given to running express buses from the Culver City Expo station to Santa Monica? You mean like Line 534? This could be in the form of some special 733s that would make their regular East West trip from DTLA to Culver City Expo station and then hop on the 10 Freeway the rest of the way, thus mimicking Phase 2 (sort of). Or just have those buses continue running down Venice, but with fewer stops. Until the late 1990s, Metro used to run a branch of Line 33 that was called Line 436. It would run from Venice to Culver City, I don't recall if it was local or limited, and then went by the 10 to downtown L.A. It was canceled primarily because it lost too much time on the freeway, and some of those trips would operate as 33s outbound and be late for the start of their runs. After it was canceled, midday 333 service happened soon after.
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Post by transitfan on Jun 8, 2011 7:14:54 GMT -8
IIRC, the 436 made all stops on Venice (I know for a fact that its predeccesor, the 604 did, as I rode it to get to USC during my first year in L. A., when I lived on Bagley Ave in Palms). It ran "closed door" in downtown LA, but ran in regular service along Venice Blvd and Main St. I know a couple of times I boarded it at Venice/La Cienega to get to Bagley when it arrived before the 75. It was actually better, because since it was supplementing the 75 service, it had "free running time" from Venice/Grand to the end of line, so it didn't have to drag if it was running hot like the 75 would. I think it had it's own schedule, i.e. the paddles would say "604" (and later 436) on them, though they would interline with the 33 (there was one I saw back in the day that went back to Santa Monica as an 83 Limited. That cleared up a major mystery for me, as I was learning about the bus run numbers, and had figured out that on the 83, runs 1-30 were Div. 2, 31-60 were D6, and 61-99 were D7. I would see a D6 bus (usually a 5400-series TDH-5301) running on the 83 with a low run #, and I would be like WTH? Then after seeing the paddle, I knew it was a line 60X run working its way back to D6 via the 83)
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Post by LAofAnaheim on Jun 8, 2011 9:16:22 GMT -8
Well..I can understand the logistical pain of a shortened 10 Rapid Express between Venice/Robertson and Bundy drive, but I fear the Big Blue Bus 5 will be a long journey between Venice/Robertson to Santa Monica due to the Century City stop. Maybe BBB should run 2 Big Blue Bus 5 routes. One in the current format (i.e. Venice/Robertson --> Century City --> Santa Moncia) and a 2nd version that runs Venice Robertson --> Olympic boulevard --> 26th street --> Colorado boulevard. How about that?
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Post by bzcat on Jun 8, 2011 11:28:12 GMT -8
Two things...
1. Any Culver City to Santa Monica express service will be temporary in nature as the Expo line is supposed to open all the way by 2015 (not holding my breath)
2. In the meanwhile, I think the most logical service supplement is rush hour Rapid 5:
Non-stop service between Venice/Robertson station and Ave of Thes Stars/ Constellation (skipping all stops on Robertson), and then only selected stops on Olympic until Downtown Santa Monica. This should shave about 10 minutes off the run time.
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Post by carter on Jun 8, 2011 11:48:53 GMT -8
Two things... 1. Any Culver City to Santa Monica express service will be temporary in nature as the Expo line is supposed to open all the way by 2015 (not holding my breath) 2. In the meanwhile, I think the most logical service supplement is rush hour Rapid 5: Non-stop service between Venice/Robertson station and Ave of Thes Stars/ Constellation (skipping all stops on Robertson), and then only selected stops on Olympic until Downtown Santa Monica. This should shave about 10 minutes off the run time. When I posed the question, this is basically the conclusion I had in my head. But it was still interesting to hear all the ideas. Wad, I wonder if Metro would consider re-routing 534 to hop on the 10 at Robertson instead of La Cienega to pick up the Expo terminus. Hmm...
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outthere15
New Member
Take back the rails
Posts: 33
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Post by outthere15 on Jun 28, 2011 14:36:33 GMT -8
When Expo opens Phase I in the fall, what will be the best connector to take to get from the La Cienega station to the Kaiser Hospital (WLA Medical Center) located just north of the 10 Freeway? It is bounded by three streets, Venice Blvd, Cadillac Ave and La Cienega Blvd. It is between Fairfax and La Cienega so I suppose it could be approached from all sides.
?
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Post by bzcat on Jun 28, 2011 16:34:21 GMT -8
I'm going to go out on a limb and say Kaiser will probably provide some type of shuttle.
But otherwise, 105/705 seems to be the best bet.
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outthere15
New Member
Take back the rails
Posts: 33
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Post by outthere15 on Jul 5, 2011 5:59:57 GMT -8
The Kaiser Hospital employs thousands of people and generates more than a million trips a year, a perfect opportunity to take cars of the streets if it is handled well. Does anyone know who to contact to talk about this?
Mark
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Post by Alexis Kasperavičius on Jul 5, 2011 9:31:07 GMT -8
The Kaiser Hospital employs thousands of people and generates more than a million trips a year, a perfect opportunity to take cars of the streets if it is handled well. Does anyone know who to contact to talk about this? Mark Hi Mark, Welcome to the board! One commonly repeated claim is that Expo and/or any other rail line will take cars off the street. Unfortunately it's not true. Study after study shows that rail has little effect on traffic - and if you hang your hat on that claim you can easily be shot down. What rail offers is another transportation method that bypasses traffic - allowing people to get where they need to go more efficiently and, in many cases, faster than cars. Especially during rush hour. Traffic is like a gas. It continues to expand, completely filling all available space. Making more roads temporarily alleviates the problem, but traffic expands to fill the new space which actually makes it worse in the long run. More roads = more traffic. In Los Angeles, it will continue to get more congested over time regardless of other transportation options. Offering people another option to get somewhere ensures the city continues to be livable and functional - and bypass the growing traffic mess we have. At some point we will no longer be able to stomach the constant freeway additions and road widening and will have to stop. Rail is a delightfully simple, pleasant, and green alternative to driving. -- As for Kaiser, consider their benefits: - Employees get to work on time more often.
- No need to build, maintain and staff as many parking lots.
- Transit access to their hospital makes it more attractive for potential employees and patients.
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Post by darrell on Jul 5, 2011 10:41:05 GMT -8
The Kaiser Hospital employs thousands of people and generates more than a million trips a year, a perfect opportunity to take cars of the streets if it is handled well. Does anyone know who to contact to talk about this? Mark The existing Metro 105 / 705 bus lines on La Cienega look like a fine connection between the La Cienega Expo station and Kaiser. Similarly the 33 / 733 provides a reasonably-good connection from the Culver City Expo station, but with a walk up from Venice to Kaiser. Kaiser could also run its own shuttle if it chose to. Expo Authority Government/Community Relations Manager Gaby Collins ( gcollins@exporail.net ) could be a good person to talk to for more.
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Post by LAofAnaheim on Jul 5, 2011 10:46:33 GMT -8
The Kaiser Hospital employs thousands of people and generates more than a million trips a year, a perfect opportunity to take cars of the streets if it is handled well. Does anyone know who to contact to talk about this? Mark Hi Mark, Welcome to the board! One commonly repeated claim is that Expo and/or any other rail line will take cars off the street. Unfortunately it's not true. Study after study shows that rail has little effect on traffic - and if you hang your hat on that claim you can easily be shot down. What rail offers is another transportation method that bypasses traffic - allowing people to get where they need to go more efficiently and, in many cases, faster than cars. Especially during rush hour. Traffic is like a gas. It continues to expand, completely filling all available space. Making more roads temporarily alleviates the problem, but traffic expands to fill the new space which actually makes it worse in the long run. More roads = more traffic. In Los Angeles, it will continue to get more congested over time regardless of other transportation options. Offering people another option to get somewhere ensures the city continues to be livable and functional - and bypass the growing traffic mess we have. At some point we will no longer be able to stomach the constant freeway additions and road widening and will have to stop. Rail is a delightfully simple, pleasant, and green alternative to driving. -- 150% agree Alex. I just came back from Moscow and there were roads with 20 lanes!!!! And guess what......there was traffic! More traffic than Los Angeles!!! Oh, and there Metro system carries daily 11 million, with a Metro population of 9 million. The whole claim that "building more lanes = decreasing traffic" is an absolute fallacy. And the claim that Metro "removes cars" is also absolutely false. If that's the case, there would be no traffic in Moscow, which is by far the worst traffic I have ever ever seen! It puts the 405 to shame.
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Post by jeisenbe on Jul 5, 2011 15:04:13 GMT -8
150% agree Alex. I just came back from Moscow and there were roads with 20 lanes!!!! And guess what......there was traffic! More traffic than Los Angeles!!! Oh, and there Metro system carries daily 11 million, with a Metro population of 9 million. Yeah, the Moscow subway system makes it possible for the city to function, despite terrible traffic. The subway system is very heavily used. Without it, there is no way you could have 9 million people living and working in that area. (Well, you could do it with light rail or BRT and very few cars, in theory, but it still requires transit) Los Angeles manages to have 10 or 20 million people in one metro area (depending on how you draw the lines), because it's spread out and people just don't try to get from one side of the metro area to the other all that often (When is the last time you went to San Clemente or Santa Clarita or Redlands?), and we have dozens of huge freeways and huge wide streets to manage it. In contrast, Moscow functions more like one big city, because people have a way to get across the city reliably, at all hours.
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Post by bzcat on Apr 4, 2012 9:36:06 GMT -8
I just emailed BBB to ask them if they plan to modify their Expo service plan to start at La Cienega station on April 28... will report back when I hear something.
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Post by carter on Sept 13, 2012 17:49:26 GMT -8
Anyone had a chance to take the new BBB 5 route to Expo? Haven't had a chance myself and I'm curious to see how that's working out.
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Post by LAofAnaheim on Sept 13, 2012 19:55:28 GMT -8
Anyone had a chance to take the new BBB 5 route to Expo? Haven't had a chance myself and I'm curious to see how that's working out. I've taken it. It's a loonnnnngggggg journey from Santa Monica to Expo Station as the diversion to Century City takes a big chunk of time. Granted, that was the original route, so the new "diversion" is the Expo station. Hence, why the Rapid 20 is MESSED UP. People on Facebook are even noticing this service is going the WRONG WAY in peak periods. Significant ridership would happen if there were even a handful of rush hour buses that went west in the morning and east in the evening. Taking Route 5 and 12 to Expo station take a minimum of 1 hour each.
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Post by bzcat on Sept 14, 2012 11:08:31 GMT -8
I've taken BBB5 a few times from Century City to Expo station and it works as advertized. I don't think BBB seriously believed a lot of people would take it all the way from Santa Monica to Expo as there are faster buses for that (733 and 534 for example); but my anecdotal observation is that quite a few people are doing that in both directions.
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Post by ieko on Sept 14, 2012 17:00:43 GMT -8
I think something we've all overlooked here is that, Metro 534 is Rapid 20, without the cache.
So essentially, Big Blue Bus decided to run a service it knew was duplicative and not useful..
Also, there's nothing wrong with the speed of Line 5, it's primary job is to cover Olympic Bl. The real problem is the street grid in that area is angled so that north-south streets are moving away from Culver City (running NE-SW). That makes it pretty hard to design north-south transit service that connects to east-west service, and doesn't duplicate (creating good high frequency opportunities because of exclusivity) and gets you to Culver City.
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Post by Philip on Jan 22, 2013 16:21:07 GMT -8
Does anyone have any particular wishes for bus re-routes once Phase 2 is open?
Some obvious ones would be routing the 4/704 and 20/720 to 4th/Colorado.
The only other one I can think of is extending the 761 to serve Expo/Westwood or Expo/Sepulveda.
I'm not that familiar with BBB, so I can't speak to any of those.
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Post by Dan Wentzel on Jan 22, 2013 16:37:47 GMT -8
At the moment, I'm still wishing the 780 went down to LaCienega/Jefferson.
I have a feeling the 534 will be cut back to the 234 and run between Malibu and Downtown Santa Monica only.
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Post by transitfan on Jan 23, 2013 6:22:41 GMT -8
At the moment, I'm still wishing the 780 went down to LaCienega/Jefferson. I have a feeling the 534 will be cut back to the 234 and run between Malibu and Downtown Santa Monica only. That may very well occur, but it would have to be a different route number, as there already is a 234 line (serving Sepulveda Blvd in the SF Valley). I wonder if MTA would consider a truncated 534 an east-west line or a north-south line (there is a case for both). If east-west, could be 134, north-south...
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Post by transitfan on Jan 23, 2013 6:23:48 GMT -8
More likely, they would just pawn it off to Big Blue Bus. ;D
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Post by bzcat on Jan 23, 2013 11:27:53 GMT -8
One bus change coming next month is BBB will add a new stop for Rapid 20 at National/Venice to allow people to connect to Expo rather than riding all the way to the layover point on Robertson, which involves a longer walk to the Expo station.
For phase 2, I think these are the BBB changes that will need to happen:
Re-route Line 4 from current terminus/turn around point at Westwood/Pico to Westwood/Expo so it offers 1-bus connection to the VA.
Line 8/12/Rapid 12 will need to have new stops on Westwood/Expo.
Re-route Line 5 to use Cloverfiled instead of 26th St so it can serve the Bergamot Station properly.
Rapid 20 will no longer be necessary so BBB will have to figure out another way to position the Rapid 12 buses at Venice/Robertson.
New Rapid 14 should be added for Bundy/Centinela corridor. Start at Fox Hills Transit Center, serves the Expo station at Olympic/Bundy, terminates at Sunset/Barrington.
Re-route Line 6 and 11 to serve 17th Street/SMC station.
Re-route Crosstown Ride to serve 17th Street in both directions rather than 1-direction loop on 14th and 20th Street. Transfers to 17th Street/SMC station.
Re-route "nanny shuttle" Line 13 to serve Palm Station and start PM service at Westwood station instead of Westside Pavilion. Add new reverse direction service (currently only 1-direction peak hour service).
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Post by bzcat on Jan 23, 2013 11:39:05 GMT -8
If BBB doesn't want to improve Line 13 (they tried to kill it several times already), then I propose that LADOT introduce the first DASH line on the Westside.
2-direction loop
Start Palms Station National Blvd South bound Palms Blvd Motor Ave North bound National Blvd West bound Westwood Blvd North bound Westwood/Expo Station Pico Blvd East bound Manning/Motor Ave/Pico (former BBB Line 13 route) Beverwill Dr South bound Castle Heights Ave South bound National Blvd South bound End Palms Station
The reverse direction bus follows the same route, but just in the opposite direction.
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Post by LAofAnaheim on Jan 23, 2013 12:32:29 GMT -8
I think Rapid 10 should be eliminated upon the completion of the Expo Line. I use the Rapid 10 nearly everyday to travel between work and home, but once the Expo Line is running, there is no need for duplicative service. It was like when Metro terminated Line 1 when the Red Line started or the freeway express that served Long Beach before the Blue Line. There is no more need for this service. Rapid 10 has been great, I still call it the most reliable and dependable bus service.
However, I think the resources of Rapid 10 should be moved to either increase service on Line 5 and 7.
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Post by RMoses on Jan 23, 2013 16:02:24 GMT -8
I occasionally take the last #10 bus in the evening from the Flower stop, I am in SM under 30 min, when Expo can do that you can eliminate the bus.
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Post by TransportationZ on Jan 23, 2013 16:32:33 GMT -8
I think Rapid 10 should be eliminated upon the completion of the Expo Line. I use the Rapid 10 nearly everyday to travel between work and home, but once the Expo Line is running, there is no need for duplicative service. It was like when Metro terminated Line 1 when the Red Line started or the freeway express that served Long Beach before the Blue Line. There is no more need for this service. Rapid 10 has been great, I still call it the most reliable and dependable bus service. However, I think the resources of Rapid 10 should be moved to either increase service on Line 5 and 7. Not necessarily. I for one, would love to see a Downtown LA - Long Beach express bus. I'm sorry, it was great to get people on the Blue Line back then but the line has been in place for over 20 years and it's beginning to show it's capacity limitations. The Silver Line already demonstrates this. If I need to go to Green Line from downtown LA, a Silver Line will get me to the Green Line faster than the Blue Line ever could. Not to mention, it's allot of the Long Beach people that are saturating the trains at rush hour. They aren't entering or exiting the train to give seats/space for local travelers. Same thing for the Rapid 10. Long Term, after the excitement of rail getting to Santa Monica cools down and trains start to become Blue Line crowded then a Rapid 10 might look nice again.
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Post by davebowman on Jan 23, 2013 16:36:09 GMT -8
From where I live in Santa Monica (near Arizona and 26th), after Expo Phase 2 is complete it will still be much faster to take BBB #10 to downtown LA Civic Center for jury duty, when you factor in the additional time it would take to walk to Bergamot Station, the slowness of the Expo Line on Flower, and the necessity to transfer to the Red Line absent the Downtown Connector. And the BBB #10 drops you off right at the entrance to the Superior Court building.
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