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Post by wad on Aug 24, 2012 3:10:20 GMT -8
Thanks, joshuanickel.
Well, at least Rapid 20 won't be a threat to Line 534.
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Post by LAofAnaheim on Aug 24, 2012 7:32:09 GMT -8
I actually don't think the schedule is that bad. They are trying to encourage the people who live in SM to take Expo. This is just a test. Give them 6 months to see how ridership does and watch them add service to it. Trust me, with 15 minute service from SM to Expo, people will take it. Plus there is Saturday Service. Here is a link to download a PDF of the schedule: bigbluebus.com/WorkArea/DownloadAsset.aspx?id=695No, it is pretty horrible. There is more congestion going west to Santa Monica in the mornings and the reverse in the evenings. This pitiful Rapid 20 schedule actually is in reverse of the more common commute pattern via the 10 freeway. Instead of being a 1 direction line, why can't they be 2 directions at morning/night? I'm still hoping this is not the final schedule, but if it is, this was pathetic.
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Post by bzcat on Aug 24, 2012 9:26:15 GMT -8
Big Blue Bus's primary mission is to serve the resident of Santa Monica. This schedule reflect that... they are giving people who live in Santa Monica a real alternative to the Rapid 10, which can be slower due to street running portion on Santa Monica Blvd and Bundy. The last bus leaves Expo at 9pm... that's not bad for a brand new express bus line.
Also, the revised schedules for Rapid 12 and #12 are not out yet. But I have a feeling Rapid 20 will interline with Rapid 12. From an operational standpoint, this is a lower risk way to try out Rapid 20. The proposed Rapid 20 route is currently the route that empty buses take to start the Super 12 service in the morning, and deadhead back to Santa Monica in the evening. BBB has found a creative way to add new service without significantly increasing the driver hours or total run time.
Rapid 12 will have an unbalanced schedule with more buses going north in the morning and more buses going south in the evening. The uneven headway would result in lots of empty buses deadheading back to/from Santa Monica to/from Expo station depending on morning of evening. If you interline Rapid 12 with Rapid 20, the Rapid 20 buses in the morning will do a turn as extra north bound Rapid 12 instead of going home. In the evening, some of the Rapid 12 buses will do the turn for Rapid 20 at Expo Station and go back to Santa Monica instead of UCLA.
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Post by LAofAnaheim on Aug 24, 2012 9:55:27 GMT -8
Big Blue Bus's primary mission is to serve the resident of Santa Monica. This schedule reflect that... they are giving people who live in Santa Monica a real alternative to the Rapid 10, which can be slower due to street running portion on Santa Monica Blvd and Bundy. The last bus leaves Expo at 9pm... that's not bad for a brand new express bus line. Also, the revised schedules for Rapid 12 and #12 are not out yet. But I have a feeling Rapid 20 will interline with Rapid 12. From an operational standpoint, this is a lower risk way to try out Rapid 20. The proposed Rapid 20 route is currently the route that empty buses take to start the Super 12 service in the morning, and deadhead back to Santa Monica in the evening. BBB has found a creative way to add new service without significantly increasing the driver hours or total run time. Rapid 12 will have an unbalanced schedule with more buses going north in the morning and more buses going south in the evening. The uneven headway would result in lots of empty buses deadheading back to/from Santa Monica to/from Expo station depending on morning of evening. If you interline Rapid 12 with Rapid 20, the Rapid 20 buses in the morning will do a turn as extra north bound Rapid 12 instead of going home. In the evening, some of the Rapid 12 buses will do the turn for Rapid 20 at Expo Station and go back to Santa Monica instead of UCLA. I don't think that's sound logic to exclude a morning service to Santa Monica and evening service from Santa Monica to Expo station. That's like saying "Rapid 10 should not pick up LA residents in the morning to go to Santa Monica because it doesn't serve Santa Monica residents". It's illogical. Rapid 20 is a very exciting service and I've been telling everybody here about it. But to make it a 1 direction service and totally avoid the prime commute (more commuters go to Santa Monica in morning than other way...board a BBB #10 and you will see) is plain dumb. It's setting up the Rapid 20 for failure at the onset. I'll e-mail BBB because I think this is very illogical of them to create this great new service and totally avoid the high demand directional service. I hope they fix this schedule.
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Post by bzcat on Aug 24, 2012 10:08:31 GMT -8
You are not listening because you are so fixated on your particular circumstance.
Rapid 10 offers both directional service because BBB only has to deadhead 3 buses (i.e. the ~5am departure from Downtown LA) and they charge a premium for this service. And it is busy both ways.
Rapid 20 exists because BBB already deadheads about 12 buses to Robertson/Venice for the Super 12 in the morning. They are just making the deadhead run a revenue service now.
Do you understand this is just making lemonades with lemons situation? If BBB adds full on 2-way service to Rapid 20, it will have to add more buses, hire more drivers, or cut service from somewhere else in the system. Is this setting up Rapid 20 for failure? No, BBB has to run these buses empty to Venice/Robertson if there is no Rapid 20 so it is all gravy. At least in the short term.
If Rapid 20 proves to be popular, then it is much easier to justify expanding it into 2-way service.
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Post by TransportationZ on Aug 24, 2012 12:00:57 GMT -8
Well, it depends on how you look it. For example, look at the Rapid 7. I rode it on Wednesday in the afternoon headed towards Santa Monica.
Absolutely Empty. there were five people max in this big large 60-BRT. Buses headed back towards Wilshire/Western were filled to the brim. Though, the Rapid 7 is kind of an oddity since most of it's ridership is SMC, so people are commuting towards SM instead of towards Downtown LA.
I too am bit disappointed. I wish they could have atleast given a few trips from Culver City in morning just like they gave 4 or 5 trips from SM in the evening.
Atleast it isn't as bad as Foothill transit's express buses. They will have trips only in the peak direction only and then when you look at I-10 or I-210 in the early morning, you will see tons of FT buses deadheading 15+ miles just to start revenue trips from the east. Seems like a waste if you ask me. I'm sure there are atleast a few good people who would appreciate one of those Reverse-peak trips, especially since the buses have to go that way anyway.
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Post by LAofAnaheim on Aug 24, 2012 12:20:12 GMT -8
You are not listening because you are so fixated on your particular circumstance. Rapid 10 offers both directional service because BBB only has to deadhead 3 buses (i.e. the ~5am departure from Downtown LA) and they charge a premium for this service. And it is busy both ways. Rapid 20 exists because BBB already deadheads about 12 buses to Robertson/Venice for the Super 12 in the morning. They are just making the deadhead run a revenue service now. Do you understand this is just making lemonades with lemons situation? If BBB adds full on 2-way service to Rapid 20, it will have to add more buses, hire more drivers, or cut service from somewhere else in the system. Is this setting up Rapid 20 for failure? No, BBB has to run these buses empty to Venice/Robertson if there is no Rapid 20 so it is all gravy. At least in the short term. If Rapid 20 proves to be popular, then it is much easier to justify expanding it into 2-way service. This is not about MY situation........the demand for more bus service is going to Santa Monica in the morning and leaving Santa Monica in the evening. Ride the Big Blue Bus #10 and Rapid #7 (as pointed above), there's where the ridership/demand is for the service hours. Once you see Rapid 20 with handful of people running a service solely using the wrong service direction, it will be bound for failure.
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Post by carter on Aug 24, 2012 12:53:40 GMT -8
You are not listening because you are so fixated on your particular circumstance. Rapid 10 offers both directional service because BBB only has to deadhead 3 buses (i.e. the ~5am departure from Downtown LA) and they charge a premium for this service. And it is busy both ways. Rapid 20 exists because BBB already deadheads about 12 buses to Robertson/Venice for the Super 12 in the morning. They are just making the deadhead run a revenue service now. Do you understand this is just making lemonades with lemons situation? If BBB adds full on 2-way service to Rapid 20, it will have to add more buses, hire more drivers, or cut service from somewhere else in the system. Is this setting up Rapid 20 for failure? No, BBB has to run these buses empty to Venice/Robertson if there is no Rapid 20 so it is all gravy. At least in the short term. If Rapid 20 proves to be popular, then it is much easier to justify expanding it into 2-way service. This is not about MY situation........the demand for more bus service is going to Santa Monica in the morning and leaving Santa Monica in the evening. Ride the Big Blue Bus #10 and Rapid #7 (as pointed above), there's where the ridership/demand is for the service hours. Once you see Rapid 20 with handful of people running a service solely using the wrong service direction, it will be bound for failure. LAofA and bzcat: I think you guys are not quite on the same page so I'm going to intervene. I think what bzcat is saying is that this new Rapid 20 service could very well be costing BBB basically nothing because there are already #12 buses running from downtown SM to Culver City Station in the morning so that they can start their #12 run up to UCLA from there. The only difference is that now, instead of those #12 buses having headsigns that read "not in service," they'll read "Rapid 20" and will be accepting paying customers. LAofA is saying that this service doesn't match the travel needs of transit riders using the Expo Line. That's absolutely true in a vacuum; however, the reality (based on conversations I've had with BBB planners) is that BBB has no additional money right now to provide the kind of service that LAofA is suggesting. So in this real-world scenario in which there is zero funding for additional service, there's nothing wrong with Big Blue Bus taking low-hanging fruit -- making buses available to passengers that would otherwise be running empty. LAofA says this service plan for the Rapid 20 is "bound for failure;" but how do we define success and failure here? If it's just "ridership," then maybe the Rapid 20 won't be a "success." But the only measure that really matters in this environment (no additional funding available) is ridership per additional dollar invested. In this case, the denominator in the rider/dollar ratio is basically zero! It's free capacity -- a driver and a bus already driving on the freeway to Culver City Station. So I know the Rapid 20 isn't going to be the most useful possible service, but it seems to be basically the only one that BBB can offer right now without cutting back other services. And given that Metro buses already service the corridor that the Rapid 20 will, I think it's hard to justify cutting other services to provide Rapid 20 rides from CC Station to downtown SM But that's certainly a more meaningful debate to have than debating the current Rapid 20 schedule versus a hypothetical one that doesn't account for real-world financial constraints.
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Post by bzcat on Aug 24, 2012 16:24:06 GMT -8
You are not listening because you are so fixated on your particular circumstance. Rapid 10 offers both directional service because BBB only has to deadhead 3 buses (i.e. the ~5am departure from Downtown LA) and they charge a premium for this service. And it is busy both ways. Rapid 20 exists because BBB already deadheads about 12 buses to Robertson/Venice for the Super 12 in the morning. They are just making the deadhead run a revenue service now. Do you understand this is just making lemonades with lemons situation? If BBB adds full on 2-way service to Rapid 20, it will have to add more buses, hire more drivers, or cut service from somewhere else in the system. Is this setting up Rapid 20 for failure? No, BBB has to run these buses empty to Venice/Robertson if there is no Rapid 20 so it is all gravy. At least in the short term. If Rapid 20 proves to be popular, then it is much easier to justify expanding it into 2-way service. This is not about MY situation........the demand for more bus service is going to Santa Monica in the morning and leaving Santa Monica in the evening. Ride the Big Blue Bus #10 and Rapid #7 (as pointed above), there's where the ridership/demand is for the service hours. Once you see Rapid 20 with handful of people running a service solely using the wrong service direction, it will be bound for failure. It can't be a failure by definition because any passenger on Rapid 20 is net positive for BBB. Those buses are going to be dispatched whether or not there is Rapid 20 so it can't "fail". It can only achieve marginal success or great success.
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Post by bzcat on Aug 28, 2012 9:56:49 GMT -8
The revised Local 12 and Rapid 12 schedule is out. It looks like the East bound Rapid 20 will make a left turn at Venice Blvd to begin north bound Local 12 service without layover, except for the 7:40 am Rapid 20 arrival, which will begin service as north bound Rapid 12.
In the afternoon, about every 3rd Local 12 will turn make the turn around at Expo station as Rapid 20, performing a revenue service back to Santa Monica instead of deadheading empty on the freeway.
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Post by Gokhan on Aug 29, 2012 9:30:06 GMT -8
New safety feature (vertical rods) at the Vermont Station:
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Post by Gokhan on Aug 29, 2012 9:41:28 GMT -8
There was some sheriff activity between Crenshaw and Expo/Rodeo this morning and the train was going very slowly, stopping at some crossings. I don't know if the gates were malfunctioning or there was some criminal activity. Very disturbingly, with the gates down for a long time and the signal preemption at Expo/Rodeo making the cars wait for a long time because of the very the slow trains, there was one guy going east on Exposition and he was trying to cross at red light in front of our train going east!
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Post by Gokhan on Aug 29, 2012 17:51:54 GMT -8
Close-up of the new safety features at Vermont Station consisting of pavement stickers and vertical rods:
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Post by darrell on Aug 29, 2012 21:53:39 GMT -8
Close-up of the new safety features at Vermont Station consisting of pavement stickers and vertical rods: Overdue, but glad they finally did something like this. I remember we talked here about how exposed the original design left pedestrians, in contrast to other cities' median stations. Here were two images from San Jose (1st at Karina, I think from Google Maps Streetview):
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Post by wad on Aug 30, 2012 3:28:31 GMT -8
It can't be a failure by definition because any passenger on Rapid 20 is net positive for BBB. Those buses are going to be dispatched whether or not there is Rapid 20 so it can't "fail". It can only achieve marginal success or great success. Not great with those schedules, and the Rapid 20 is boxed in. As you said, these are really repositioning trips; think of how cruise liners will go one way during the spring (Mexico/California to Pacific Northwest) and back during the fall. It's not like there will be a clamor for these particular trips; Big Blue Bus just does these to turn in or out buses according to its schedules. Then again, Line 9 could serve as a replacement for Metro Line 534 by extending north to Trancas Canyon and east to the Expo Line. At least that would have bidirectional service at a predictable rhythm.
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Post by matthewb on Aug 30, 2012 5:06:11 GMT -8
New safety feature (vertical rods) at the Vermont Station: Very nice. On the other hand, that Arco station is just begging to be torn down and replaced by a mixed use development.
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Post by gatewaygent on Aug 30, 2012 13:06:08 GMT -8
Wouldn't the parcel that the Arco station is on now make a better subway Station when the Vermont Corridor is built?
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Post by bobdavis on Aug 30, 2012 18:09:35 GMT -8
When gasoline gets up to $8 or $10 a gallon, we won't need so many gas stations, but I doubt that the ARCO will be replaced by a subway station in my lifetime.
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Post by bluelineshawn on Aug 30, 2012 20:34:21 GMT -8
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Post by matthewb on Aug 31, 2012 0:27:11 GMT -8
Wouldn't the parcel that the Arco station is on now make a better subway Station when the Vermont Corridor is built? It should be possible to have a subway station below a mixed use development. This is how it's done in most cities I've been to with underground rail, e.g. London, Paris, New York, Chicago, San Francisco. I'm sure there are exceptions even in those cities, but it should be possible to have a station without needing a huge empty plaza around it.
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Post by Alexis Kasperavičius on Aug 31, 2012 3:48:50 GMT -8
Art got to visit his alma mater and pitch the Expo line! Let's see how it goes this weekend. Who's going?
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Post by transitfan on Aug 31, 2012 7:19:02 GMT -8
Go Trojans!! ;D
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Post by Gokhan on Aug 31, 2012 12:34:48 GMT -8
A safety problems was identified. There are no pavement "WAIT HERE" signs at Jefferson in combination with lack of left-turn traffic lights, which results in cars standing on the rails there.
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Post by Gokhan on Aug 31, 2012 12:37:49 GMT -8
They have an extensive game-day plan, with trains running every 6 minutes in each direction and staff/sheriff queuing people for platform access. The maximum number of people each split platform can handle is 250 and they will send out people in batches.
There will be barricades stopping the trains and/or people before they cross and there will be a 5 - 15 MPH speed limit along USC.
Note that 6 minutes is the best light-rail can do because of platform capacity and they cannot have any more frequent trains with light-rail.
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Post by Gokhan on Aug 31, 2012 12:39:34 GMT -8
Metro is very unhappy with Expo Authority, which has left Phase 1 unfinished as a mess and they are trying to have them finish the line. There are still tons of problems along the line.
Currently they have zero (0) spare cars for the Expo/Blue Lines. If one more car breaks down or has an accident, there will be service delays.
In good news, Kinki Sharyo is expected to deliver the first batch of cars in mid-2015 or earlier and they have never missed a delivery and Expo Phase 2 and Gold Line Phase 2 are both expected to open in late 2015.
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Post by Gokhan on Aug 31, 2012 15:21:35 GMT -8
The following e-mail was just sent to the entire USC community:
From: DPS Notification Subject: [dps-l] Important Metro Rail Safety Info
The Metro line is up and running with several crossings near campus. Rail crossings can be hazardous for members of the USC community in cars, on foot, or on bicycles. Please be aware and cross with care! Specifically: - Obey all traffic signals; if the light is red or the illuminated hand is red, stop and wait; do not begin to cross once the countdown timer has started; never try to dash across the tracks and beat the light. - Always look both ways when crossing; a train can be coming from either direction. - If there is a flashing orange train sign, it means there is a train coming and it may be there in seconds. - Never ride a bike or skateboard or drive a vehicle on the train tracks or train platform. Our goal is to ensure everyone's safety at USC. Let's all take precautions to avoid any accidents this year. USC Campus Safety Committee Metro Safety
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Post by jamesinclair on Aug 31, 2012 18:46:00 GMT -8
Nice to see the plastic cone things at Vermont, but still a major planning fail.
Should have been from the start a concrete waiting median with hard bolalrds. Those orange pieces of plastic wont stop an SUV from killing a crowd.
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Post by Alexis Kasperavičius on Sept 1, 2012 18:31:03 GMT -8
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Post by Gokhan on Sept 1, 2012 21:36:53 GMT -8
Nice! So, now, waving at the trains is the new USC-football tradition!
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Post by joemagruder on Sept 2, 2012 13:58:29 GMT -8
What were Expo Line passenger loads like yesterday? Did many take the train to/from the game?
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