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Post by Transit Coalition on Dec 23, 2007 22:21:14 GMT -8
It interesting to note that the first set of newly rebuilt monorails are on the Disneyland property. Here is a newspaper report, with photos There are a group of folks who absolutely think that Monorail is the urban transit form of the future. Looking at the chart in the above link, you can see that each car seats 24. After the recent Alt Car Expo, where the Monorail Enthusiasts presented, I had a friend come by our booth and I asked him what he thought of the monorail group presentation. To keep it short and sweet, his answer was: "Faith Based Transit." We have some guys that want to put a monorail down Wilshire Blvd.instead of extending the Purple Line subway. You can see that there are a lot more unanswered questions, despite claims of faster, better and cheaper. |
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Post by roadtrainer on Dec 25, 2007 9:58:22 GMT -8
;D The first time I went to Disneyland back in the early 1960's and I saw the Mono-rail for the first time up close and I was immediately taken into dream land and visioned the Monorail going all over Southern California, but the "Loco" Transit Authority ( the L.A.M.T.A.) dubbed it a toy and ignored it all together. I believed this is where the seed of public transit interest was planted in my heart. Through the years L.A. has had several transit projects on the ballot and every one of them failed because gas was cheap and public opinion was against it. And when the Visionary Baxter Ward got the Ël Camino train going the press killed it by calling it "the Ward Cho-Cho" and the short lived commuter Train run by the Southern Pacific was derailed by the press too! And who can forget the offer to build a Mono-Rail System and the M.T.A. turned that one down too! Then there was an offer to build a Mono-Rail through Century City. And you know the story! Turned down again! Is it any reason why we have so many NIMBY's out there? It is because earlier generations have been mule sighted, mule brained and pig headed!! sincerely The Roadtrainer  |
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Post by Elson on Dec 25, 2007 23:16:09 GMT -8
I know I'm preaching to the choir, but a good friend of mine was a part-time Monorail operator at Disneyland for a few years, he'd tell me stories about breakdowns, the tires going bad (yes, those are rubber tires rolling against the sides of the rail) and the occasional small fire(!)...Not the kind of things I'd want in an urban rail system...especially when you don't have the luxury of stepping off the train onto a walkway or onto the ground.
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Post by nickv on Dec 26, 2007 11:03:51 GMT -8
The last several times I rode the Disneyland Monorail, very few people boarded/alighted at the hotel/DT Disney. They got off and on at the Tomorrowland Station; so even the Disneyland Monorail appears to be used mainly for sightseeing rather than transportation between DT Disney and Tomorrowland. The Disneyland Railroad on the other hand appears to be the other way; it appears most people use it to get around the park.
I agree with Elson and TTC; advocate and extend the subway on Wilshire.
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Post by Elson on Dec 26, 2007 11:58:59 GMT -8
The last several times I rode the Disneyland Monorail, very few people boarded/alighted at the hotel/DT Disney. They got off and on at the Tomorrowland Station; so even the Disneyland Monorail appears to be used mainly for sightseeing rather than transportation between DT Disney and Tomorrowland. The Disneyland Railroad on the other hand appears to be the other way; it appears most people use it to get around the park. I agree with Elson and TTC; advocate and extend the subway on Wilshire. Well not to defend the monorail, but the one at Disneyland only has three stations, with but one in the park (Tomorrowland), whereas the railroad is entirely inside the park and has 4 stops serving all corners Monorails are perfect for closed-loop systems like amusement parks, fairgrounds and airports, but are totally inflexible for everyday urban transit. |
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Post by bobdavis on Dec 26, 2007 22:00:44 GMT -8
This news item was also reported on the Trainorders.com website. I sent a reply there, and I'll repeat one of my comments: Anyone who advocates so-called monorails (monobeam is more accurate) should go to Chicago and visit the Howard St. interlocker at 4:30 pm, then report back how you'd do the same operation with "monorail".
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Post by faithbasedtransit on Dec 29, 2007 15:46:06 GMT -8
I know I'm preaching to the choir, but a good friend of mine was a part-time Monorail operator at Disneyland for a few years, he'd tell me stories about breakdowns, the tires going bad (yes, those are rubber tires rolling against the sides of the rail) and the occasional small fire(!)...Not the kind of things I'd want in an urban rail system...especially when you don't have the luxury of stepping off the train onto a walkway or onto the ground. The choir has been invaded!  I don't know about your friend's experiences, but I do know that the Walt Disney World system operates most days at 99.9% reliability. On bad days it's around 99.8. The technology also is so reliable that all twelve of their trains can be online during busy season, something unheard of with most rail transit operations. Most systems have trains down for maintenance at all times. This kind of reliability isn't just in Disney either, which carries 100,000 - 200,000 passengers a day. Most monorails around the world have this kind of reliability percentage as well. |
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Post by faithbasedtransit on Dec 29, 2007 15:49:34 GMT -8
Monorails are perfect for closed-loop systems like amusement parks, fairgrounds and airports, but are totally inflexible for everyday urban transit. This is hard to swallow, having studied monorails in person all over the world. Folks, there ARE true transit monorails outside of theme parks and like it or not, more will be built! |
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Post by spokker on Feb 28, 2008 22:52:57 GMT -8
The "new" monorail, which is really just one of the old trains refurbished, has had major problems and will probably not even start running until next year. According to MiceAge.com the train can't even navigate the turns and grinds up against the beam. Apparently they used outdated blueprints or something. Read the most recent update for more info. To quote the author of MiceAge, where's Bob Gurr when you need him?
While I don't appreciate the Disneyland Monorail bashing (it's a wonderful system, though poorly mismanaged in recent years), anybody who is seriously advocating monorail or maglev public mass transit systems is part of the problem, not the solution. Let private developers build monorails for their malls, theme parks, and zoos. If public funds were used on a monorail in Los Angeles I would be horrified.
Even Disney has lost faith in monorails, and has not extended their Disney World network since the 80s, if I recall correctly. Instead, busses carry people between MGM, Animal Kingdom, the water parks, Downtown Disney, and the many hotels not served by the monorail. It's a shame really.
By the way, the Disneyland Monorail system only has two stops, not three.
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Post by nickv on Feb 29, 2008 1:19:36 GMT -8
Same goes for Disneyland. Instead of monorail trains, the resort built dedicated tramways and uses rubber wheel trams (now we've got "tram-rapid-transit") to move the people quickly from the parking lots to the front gates.
Rubber wheel trolley buses are used to transport people from the remote lots.
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Post by kenalpern on Feb 29, 2008 7:03:13 GMT -8
Interesting point, Nick. Can we come up with any documents or plans that support this, and put the "1950's dream of Walt Disney" to rest? My suspicion is that if Walt Disney were magically brought back to the world of the living, and was educated on modern rail technology, he'd support conventional rail technology.
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Post by spokker on Feb 29, 2008 17:47:02 GMT -8
My suspicion is that if Walt Disney were magically brought back to the world of the living, and was educated on modern rail technology, he'd support conventional rail technology. He supported both. He built a conventional rail transportation system around his entire park. He spent a lot of time at the Orange Empire Railway Museum running the trains with Ward Kimball. He is probably the most famous rail enthusiast in the world. I'm not saying monorails are great for public transit. In fact I said quite the opposite, that anybody who supports that is doing the world a great disservice. What I do support are monorails in theme parks, especially Disney parks. They don't perform a public service, instead they entertain and delight, which justifies the high cost of monorail systems. Trams are so much less "magical" than a sleek monorail. When Walt Disney supported monorails running through LA the rail system was in shambles. Now that our public officials have decided to build light rail and a subway, it would be stupid to build monorails. We should add on, expand, and improve the system we already have. |
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Post by bobdavis on Jul 6, 2008 18:37:44 GMT -8
Latest update on the Disneyland Monorail: in today's LA Times (Section B, P 4) there's a report on the new "Mark VII" train, which apparently isn't ready for prime time. So it's not just the Gold Line Breda cars that are having difficulties.
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Post by spokker on Jul 7, 2008 11:34:13 GMT -8
While the monorail can navigate the track (it still breaks down often), they are only running it when the temperature is cool enough. That means it's only operating in the morning and at night during the Summer.
The problem is that they designed the windows in a way so people couldn't stick their hands out of the cabin. Of course, this meant less airflow in the center cars that don't have AC. Only the end cones have AC.
Since they realized how hot it was getting inside the monorail they've installed air scoops on the top of the roof of the train to increase air flow. It helps, but it still gets really hot inside the train.
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Post by kenalpern on Jul 7, 2008 11:41:35 GMT -8
The article, towards its end, quoted a UCLA professor who commented how monorails were good for amusement parks but didn't match up to standard rail and buses for more widespread use.
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Post by kenalpern on Jul 5, 2009 8:28:56 GMT -8
I'm writing from Disney World, where I'm shocked and horrified to learn that we missed being on a Disney Monorail crash (one fatality, the driver) by a mere few minutes. Yikes!
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Post by darrell on Jul 5, 2009 10:11:35 GMT -8
I'm writing from Disney World, where I'm shocked and horrified to learn that we missed being on a Disney Monorail crash (one fatality, the driver) by a mere few minutes. Yikes! Yikes! is right. Here's coverage from CBS12: BREAKING NEWS: Fatal monorail accident at Disney
July 5, 2009 - 7:54 AM
Two monorail trains at Disney World crashed this morning, killing the conductor of one of the trains, according to the Orange County Sheriff's Office. No guests at the park were hurt. The accident happened at the Magic Kingdom transportation center at about 1 a.m.
WKMG in Orlando is reporting that the man who died is married with five children and no one was in his train at the time. For unknown reasons, he missed the warning indicators that another train was parked ahead of him. The driver and about six park guests aboard that train were not hurt. Monorail conductors are aware of other trains ahead by visual identification or a white strobe light.
Disney released the following statement:
"Our hearts go out to the family and fellow cast members who lost a co-worker and a friend. Safety of our guests and cast members is our top priority. We will work with law enforcement to determine what happened." |
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Post by spokker on Jul 5, 2009 11:48:33 GMT -8
It's the first fatal accident in the history of the WDW monorail system.
I don't support building monorails in our cities as a solution to congestion, but it isn't because of safety concerns, that's for sure.
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Post by kenalpern on Jul 5, 2009 18:51:44 GMT -8
This happened around 2 a.m., not 1 a.m.--My family and I took the monorail at about 1 a.m. or so, as the park was closing, and I assure you that nothing was afoot. I'm sorry as heck about the poor driver. Monorail, as with LRT, as with automobile/traffic arrangements and the airlines, have disasters from time to time.
The whole thing is just sad...
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Walt Disney World monorail crash kills employee
AP .Sun Jul 5, 6:09 pm ET
LAKE BUENA VISTA, Fla. – Two monorail trains crashed early Sunday morning in the Magic Kingdom section of Walt Disney World, killing one train's operator, emergency officials said.
Disney said it was the first fatal crash in the monorail's 38-year history in the park.
The transit system, which shuttles thousands of visitors around the sprawling resort each day, was shut down while authorities investigated the holiday weekend wreck.
The monorail operator died at the scene of the crash, which happened around 2 a.m., said Bo Jones, deputy chief for Reedy Creek Fire Department. The other train operator was uninjured, but was taken to a hospital because he was emotionally shaken. Jones said five park guests were treated at the scene, though the Orange County Sheriff's office said six were treated.
"To see the accident, to see the scene of what had happened and the fact that there was a life that was lost, it was very sad. It was very somber," Jones said.
Disney's senior spokesman Michael Griffin identified the driver as 21-year-old Austin Wuennenberg. Griffin would not discuss how long Wuennenberg had been with Disney or the circumstances surrounding the crash. Disney officials also declined to discuss how the monorail system operates.
"They are extremely rare," Griffin said of accidents at the park. "The safety of our guests and cast are a top priority above all else."
It is unclear what caused the crash, Jones said. Orange County Sheriff's officials are investigating.
A spokeswoman for Stetson University in nearby DeLand confirmed that Wuennenberg was a student at the school. A woman standing in front of Wuennenberg's home in Kissimmee declined to comment Sunday afternoon and directed questions to Disney officials, saying the family wanted "private time to grieve."
One of Wuennenberg's former Stetson classmates, Brandon Ross, said the 21-year-old had scheduled his classes around his Disney job and took precautions if he was working a night shift. Ross said his friend would make the hour-long drive from DeLand to the Orlando area the day before his shift so he wouldn't be tired when he operated the train.
"He seemed to be a pretty safe person," said Ross, 22. "He's not reckless at all."
Wuennenberg studied computer science, said Ross, who sometimes asked for his help on school projects and called him smart and talented. "He was really good with computers."
Jones said the crash happened at the park's ticket and transportation center. About a dozen guards wearing blue Disney security uniforms guarded the monorail station Sunday morning and prevented visitors from approaching.
Griffin would not comment on a video posted on the Web site of Orlando TV station WKMG. The clip, apparently shot by a guest at the park, shows a man pounding on the door to the driver's compartment after the crash.
"This is such a close-knit community," Griffin said. "Our hearts go out to Austin's family. It's a sad day here."
Catherine McKenna, 45, and her family were visiting the theme park from Ireland. The family had planned to use the monorail to travel to the Magic Kingdom last Friday but said they were told the train was broken. They took a ferry but returned on the monorail later that day.
"It's very sad," McKenna said. "You would be very afraid to use it again."
Disney spokeswoman Zoraya Suarez said the park had boosted other forms of transport — such as ferries, boats and buses — for visitors Sunday.
"Our guests are getting around fine," Suarez added.
Seventeen-year-old Ethan Meus, visiting from Dubuque, Iowa, said he and his family took the monorail to dinner at a resort hotel Saturday night. Meus watched the Magic Kingdom fireworks from the monorail on the way back to his hotel and said he didn't notice any problems with the train.
"It's pretty shocking to hear that a driver was killed," Meus said.
"You would think it would be so safe," said 20-year-old Lauren Shoebottom, who was visiting the park from London. "You don't expect it on holiday, do you?"
Griffin issued a statement offering condolences to the employee's family and saying the monorail was closed.
"It's a bit shocking," said 22-year-old Danielle Williams, of London. "Disney seems so perfect."
Associated Press contributor Amy Green reported from Lake Buena Vista, Fla.
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Post by darrell on Oct 13, 2010 8:01:35 GMT -8
Here's a well-timed drive-by photo of the Disneyland monorail from Harbor Blvd. yesterday....  |
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I don't know about your friend's experiences, but I do know that the Walt Disney World system operates most days at 99.9% reliability. On bad days it's around 99.8. The technology also is so reliable that all twelve of their trains can be online during busy season, something unheard of with most rail transit operations. Most systems have trains down for maintenance at all times. This kind of reliability isn't just in Disney either, which carries 100,000 - 200,000 passengers a day. Most monorails around the world have this kind of reliability percentage as well.
