Mac
Full Member
Posts: 192
|
Post by Mac on Sept 27, 2007 17:40:01 GMT -8
Wow, another tunnel and overpass on Bunker hill. Just add a streetcar trolley tunnel and Bunker hill will start looking like Swiss cheese. Does your proposed tunnel go over or under the 2nd and 3rd St. tunnels ? To be honest with you, I don't really know. All I was doing was throwing ideas out, since a subway would be very deep, and a at-grade rail would cause traffic jams, plus I don't think it could climb that hill. But bunker definitly needs some sort of a rail connection. Btw, sorry about the bad grammer on that other post
|
|
|
Post by JerardWright on Sept 27, 2007 20:53:58 GMT -8
Wow, another tunnel and overpass on Bunker hill. Just add a streetcar trolley tunnel and Bunker hill will start looking like Swiss cheese. Well that's what happens when cities plan a Metropolis on top of steep hills. Any planner if they started from scratch would have made that residential. Wait a minute, LA did that once before the CRA came in and bulldozed everything.
|
|
Mac
Full Member
Posts: 192
|
Post by Mac on Sept 30, 2007 16:10:12 GMT -8
Yep, Bunker hill was actually a residential area, and that is when Angels Flight came in. But now that it is full of skyscrapers, plus a steep hill, its gonna be hard making a route through there.
|
|
|
Post by whitmanlam on Oct 1, 2007 15:10:25 GMT -8
Bunker Hill is really not a good place for Office Buildings. It poses myriad problems in terms of parking, freeway access, and pedestrian access. Bunker Hill used to have L.A.'s largest collection of Victorian homes, similar to Highland Park and Angelino Heights. But alas, the developers cared nothing for history...
Imagine, if we preserved those homes on Bunker Hill, we could have our own little slice of San Francisco.
|
|
|
Post by bluelineshawn on Oct 8, 2007 19:04:20 GMT -8
Whitman, I don't think that the subway under Bunker Hill would have to stay at the same grade for the entire trip. I would imagine that it will be inclined specifically because it's so deep. Old news, but I just saw where the Downtown Connector received the highest score in the preliminarily performance analysis for the Long Range Transportation Plan. Anyone have any insight into how real this designation will end up being?
|
|
|
Post by kenalpern on Oct 9, 2007 5:24:31 GMT -8
Politically and economically, I envision this Connector being #1 behind the Crenshaw Project in the Metro LRTP.
|
|
norm
New Member
Posts: 11
|
Post by norm on Oct 14, 2007 4:51:08 GMT -8
|
|
|
Post by tonyw79sfv on Oct 14, 2007 5:12:20 GMT -8
Wow, Metro is really getting the ball rolling, with the studies for the Westside, Crenshaw, and now this! We're finally adding more pieces to Damien's dream map.
|
|
|
Post by kenalpern on Oct 14, 2007 10:30:35 GMT -8
From the Metro DTC Website:
"Early environmental scoping meetings have been scheduled to provide the public with the opportunity to comment on the scope of the Alternatives Analysis (AA):
Tuesday, November 6, 2007 11:30am -1:30pm Central Library, Meeting Room A 630 W. 5th St., Los Angeles, CA 90071
Wednesday, November 7, 2007 6:00-8:00pm Japanese America National Museum 369 E. First St., Los Angeles, CA 90012
Comments may also be submitted via phone, mail, or email. Visit Contact Us for more information. All comments must be received by the end of the early scoping period, Nov. 21, 2007."
|
|
|
Post by kenalpern on Oct 14, 2007 10:31:48 GMT -8
Dunno about you, folks, but I find the number of meetings for this to be appallingly few and insufficient to serve the needs of those to benefit from a DTC. Shouldn't meetings in Pasadena, Long Beach, the Westside and Eastside be scheduled as well, if this is truly a Regional, and not just a Downtown, Connector?
|
|
|
Post by bluelineshawn on Oct 14, 2007 10:49:02 GMT -8
Exactly! Don't sell it as a downtown project. Sell it as a project that will benefit the entire region because that's what it is.
|
|
|
Post by erict on Oct 14, 2007 12:16:21 GMT -8
|
|
|
Post by bluelineshawn on Oct 14, 2007 15:39:09 GMT -8
That study has a map showing potential routes. I think that we can throw out the two northernmost east-west routes because they don't connect to the Little Tokyo Station. Then we can throw out the southernmost route because it's too far from the many of the Bunker Hill employment centers and especially the new Grand Avenue development. That leaves the 2nd and 1st street alignments of which 1st street provides the best connections to both the employment centers, Grand Avenue, and the red/purple lines. A no-brainer I think. One thing of note is that the alignment on 2nd (and maybe 3rd?) would have to be underground so at least they're looking in the right direction.
|
|
|
Post by JerardWright on Oct 14, 2007 17:31:00 GMT -8
That study has a map showing potential routes. I think that we can throw out the two northernmost east-west routes because they don't connect to the Little Tokyo Station. Then we can throw out the southernmost route because it's too far from the many of the Bunker Hill employment centers and especially the new Grand Avenue development. That leaves the 2nd and 1st street alignments of which 1st street provides the best connections to both the employment centers, Grand Avenue, and the red/purple lines. A no-brainer I think. Well portion of the Northernmost route can be utilized such as an Aliso or Temple Street section running from Los Angeles Street east as an elevated that splits the DTC into two routes, one heading to Union Station and beyond the other to Little Tokyo without having to demolish the existing station all of the routes don't have to connect to Little Tokyo or Union Station. Actually because of the topography of Bunker Hill, a 2nd Street alignment can transition from Underground into an elevated. Same thing could occur for First Street with some modifications to the busy boulevard. I don't feel a transfer point at Civic Center is absolutely neccessary beause one or two transfer points will already be connected to the system one at the very user friendly and simple 7th Street/Metro Center the other at Union Station which will follow in the direction of service of the Red/Purple Lines which is to the West of 7th/Metro Center station.
|
|
|
Post by kenalpern on Oct 14, 2007 20:40:07 GMT -8
I'm not going to lie to you: I don't know the topography and street maps of Downtown, because I make it my business (like so many right now, maybe most people) to stay away from there whenever possible because of traffic and parking.
Still, looking at this map, doesn't the Flower to First, or Flower to Temple, alignments look the simplest and most reasonable. I sincerely believe that Bunker Hill and City Hall and key business and City/County political buildings must be accessed with this a single alignment.
Based on $$$ and the political desire to move forward to the Wilshire Subway, I don't honestly believe that more than one alignment can be pursued at a time...in other words, I do believe that more than one DTC is indicated, but the single best alignment that allows for 30-60 second headways is what must be pursued.
I don't care whether it's a subway or elevated, but the headways mean much more to me than the $$$ because the issues of regional light rail operations and regional ridership are much more important for such a vital Connector than short-term financial costs.
In short, where do Long Beach, Eastside, Westside, Mid-City and Pasadena residents want to go, and which key stops are most needed that relate to current Downtown development?
|
|
|
Post by LAofAnaheim on Oct 14, 2007 22:14:01 GMT -8
In short, where do Long Beach, Eastside, Westside, Mid-City and Pasadena residents want to go, and which key stops are most needed that relate to current Downtown development? Personally...you need to connect LA Live/Staples (Pico Station), Grand Avenue development/Disney Concert Hall (new Bunker Hill Station) on the DTC. Of course, I'm expecting the DTC to have transfer stations at 7th Street/Metro & Civic Center for the businesspeople. That would draw a serious number of riders. I live in South Park, so having the connector would give me a 1-seat ride to Pasadena Old Town...that would be awesome!
|
|
|
Post by LAofAnaheim on Oct 14, 2007 22:25:33 GMT -8
Isn't all these studies happening b/c Villairaigosa asked for $10M in studies over a year or 2 ago and Gloria Molina got really upset about it?
|
|
|
Post by kenalpern on Oct 15, 2007 5:46:14 GMT -8
This is a great example of learning that all politicians have their high points and their flaws. Villaraigosa decided to raise the bar, and pushed for studies, while Molina (a victim of the past where the bar was kept low and expectations were stuck waaaaay down) had a problem with them, even though these studies are as critical as $$$ for these projects to become reality. Villaraigosa was certainly the right person to push for the next generation of new rail projects.
On the other hand, Molina had some very serious and appropriate questions as to the $$$ to operate these new lines, and when it came to raising fares she had some very realistic answers but Villaraigosa absolutely did not. Molina was certainly the right person to end the Consent Decree and to approach a long-overdue rise in fares when that obstacle occurred.
Both of them deserve credit for being the right leaders for the right time, despite my strong differences with some of their opinions and approaches. Right now, Pam O'Connor is the right person for the right time, and I expect her leadership at Metro for this year to ensure that Expo (both Phase I and Phase II) move along from the study phase to the reality phase.
|
|
|
Post by damiengoodmon on Oct 15, 2007 8:28:22 GMT -8
Wow, Metro is really getting the ball rolling, with the studies for the Westside, Crenshaw, and now this! We're finally adding more pieces to Damien's dream map. Much of the map (85%) was simply putting all of these studies and discussion topics together on the same canvass. Absent vocal and continuous advocacy by the very people reading these messages these studies too will sit on a shelf beside the old ones. It's going to take letter writing, phone calls and good old fashion boots on the ground to make these lines a reality. Let's do it!
|
|
|
Post by kenalpern on Oct 15, 2007 10:54:11 GMT -8
I agree with Damien, but with the following caveat: expect these "no-brainer projects" to take years to become reality, and I mean years of steady fighting, time expenditures and periodic downturns. There are plenty of "no-brainer" politicians, unfortunately, and their priorities and logic aren't where they always ought to be.
For example, Prop. 1B passed--halleluyah! Then the state took away the Gas Tax Spillover Fund--huh? I still have confidence, though, that traffic and increased public awareness will fix everything sooner or later...but don't expect these fixes to come when they ought to.
Stay in for the long haul, but we can definitely make it clear that NO ONE gets elected who doesn't address the economic, environmental and quality of life issues of L.A. County that can get fixed by transportation projects.
|
|
|
Post by whitmanlam on Oct 22, 2007 14:35:57 GMT -8
----------- Big Time Meetings on the Subject of "The Connector" ------ Public Invited to Participate in Metro Regional Connector Transit Corridor Study Meetings in November * Public Comment Requested The Los Angeles County Metropolitan Transportation Authority (Metro) will be conducting two meetings in November to obtain public comment on the agency’s Regional Connector Transit Corridor Study, which will analyze various transit alternatives for the possible connection of the Metro Gold Line , Metro Blue Line and Expo Line through downtown Los Angeles. The study’s purpose is to consider various transit modes, alignments and station location options for an area that encompasses approximately two square miles of downtown Los Angeles, including the communities of Little Tokyo, the Arts District, the Historic Core, the Toy District, Bunker Hill, the Financial District, the Jewelry District, and the Civic Center. The public is invited to the following upcoming public meetings to learn about alignment and mode options and to provide comments: * Tuesday, November 6: Central Library, Meeting Room A, 630 W. 5th Street, downtown Los Angeles, 11:30 a.m. – 1:30 p.m. *Formal presentation begins at 12 p.m. * Wednesday, November 7: Japanese American National Museum, Central Hall, 369 E. 1st Street, downtown Los Angeles, 6 – 8 p.m. *Formal presentation begins at 6:30 p.m. By studying the project now, Metro seeks to accommodate expected ridership increases when the Metro Gold Line Eastside Extension opens in 2009 and the Expo Line opens in 2010 and to support the resurgence of downtown Los Angeles as a business, cultural and residential hub. Today, the Metro Blue Line terminates at Metro Center at 7th Street and Wilshire Boulevard. A few short miles away, the Metro Gold Line starts at Union Station, heading north towards the San Gabriel Valley. Currently there is no direct means for riders traveling from Long Beach to Pasadena to reach their destinations without transfers. Previous studies have shown that the connection of light rail lines in downtown would increase system utilization, improve transit accessibility for downtown residents, and, ultimately, improve mobility throughout the region. Metro’s Alternatives Analysis (AA) study is the first step in the environmental clearance process. After the completion of the AA, the Metro Board of Directors will evaluate whether to move the project forward with further environmental review. The meetings will provide the public a first opportunity to learn about the several alternatives in detail and provide input. Metro will provide a review of the proposed project goals and objectives, present opportunities to speak with project representatives, display maps and photographs of various transit alternatives and allow the public’s submission of written and verbal comments. Those unable to attend the meetings may also submit their input by phone, fax, mail, or e-mail by contacting : Ms. Dolores Roybal Saltarelli, Project Manager, Metro, Mail Stop: 99-22-2, One Gateway Plaza, Los Angeles, CA 90012. Phone: 213-922-7277. Fax: 213-922-3005. E-mail: roybald@metro.net. Comments must be received by November 21, 2007. For more information or information in additional languages, call 213-922-7277. To obtain a project area map, visit www.metro.net/regionalconnector. Metro-189
|
|
|
Post by JerardWright on Nov 17, 2007 20:41:48 GMT -8
LA DOWNTOWN NEWS
Looking for a Connection Some See Proposed Transit Project as Downtown's Missing Link by Anna Scott
Depending on who you ask, Downtown Los Angeles in 15 years - with the completion of L.A. Live, the $2 billion Grand Avenue plan and thousands of residential units - could either be a quagmire of congestion or a model of urban planning.
The Gold Line currently runs from Pasadena to Union Station, and is being extended to East L.A. A new plan for a Downtown Regional Connector would help people navigate between the Gold, Blue and coming Expo lines. Hoping to contribute toward the latter, the Los Angeles County Metropolitan Transportation Authority is in the early stage of planning a project that would connect the four light-rail lines that will eventually traverse Downtown, creating more direct routes throughout L.A.
The Downtown Regional Connector would create a link between the Gold Line, which opened in 2003 and connects Pasadena to Union Station; the upcoming Gold Line Eastside Extension, which will continue the route through East L.A., with completion expected in 2009; the Blue Line, which runs between Long Beach and a station at Seventh and Flower streets; and the future Expo Line, which will also feature a Seventh and Flower stop as it stretches to Culver City.
Metro officials recently launched a study of various options for the proposed connector, including an aboveground or at-grade light-rail or a subway. The study area encompasses approximately two square miles, roughly bounded by the 101 and 110 freeways, Alameda Street and Seventh or Ninth streets.
The proposal is estimated to cost between $250 million and $800 million, said Metro project manager Dolores Roybal, who added that no attempts have yet been made to identify funding sources. The system is likely at least 10 years away, she said.
Nonetheless, at a series of public meetings held by Metro over the past few weeks, the proposal has generated serious discussion Downtown, where many view the connector as a potentially vital counterpart to the neighborhood's multitude of development projects.
"We think it's very important to ensure that proposed routes maximize Downtown development and revitalization efforts," said Veronica Perez Becker, vice president of legislative affairs for the Central City Association. "We also feel that anything that makes transportation work more effectively and that recognizes Downtown as a transportation hub is a good thing."
A Long Haul
The Downtown connector was originally conceived nearly two decades ago as an extension of the Blue Line north to Pasadena, but was abandoned in the early 1990s because of a lack of funding.
The proposal was retooled to fit subsequent light-rail expansions, including the construction of the Gold Line. Metro conducted an initial feasibility and cost study of the current proposal in 2004, and the agency's board approved funding for a full-fledged study last year.
Earlier this month, Metro officials held two informational meetings - both Downtown - on the project. They also participated in a discussion at last week's Downtown Los Angeles Neighborhood Council meeting.
There, community members questioned how the Downtown Connector would gel with developments underway in the area, particularly the Grand Avenue plan, which is expected to create 2,600 new housing units, plus retail and a hotel.
In response, Roybal said Metro is looking into building a station on Bunker Hill, adjacent to the project. In a separate interview, Beatrice Hsu, vice president of development for Related Cos., said that the developer is working closely with Metro and "would be very interested in having a stop somewhere in the vicinity of the project."
Others questioned whether officials are considering how the Downtown Connector might complement a proposed Red Car trolley that would run along First Street to Broadway, Olympic Boulevard and Figueroa Street. That system "would start to be the backbone of transportation Downtown," said DLANC President Russell Brown at last Tuesday's meeting.
Despite questions, area stakeholders have generally expressed enthusiasm about the Downtown Regional Connector.
"It's an absolutely necessary piece of the puzzle for regional connectivity," said Downtown resident and gallery owner Bert Green. "It has to be done; it's a plan for the next 100 years."
Perez Becker of the Central City Association said she expects that "if they make it easier to do so, more people will come through and to Downtown."
Looking Ahead
Metro officials expect to produce a final report on the Downtown Connector, with preferred routing options, by July 2008, said Roybal.
If the Metro board approves the report, officials can then begin an environmental study, which could take up to three years. They would also start to look for funding at that point.
"On a very aggressive schedule," said Roybal, riders can expect the connector to be running in seven to 10 years. While Metro has endured, and continues to face, major funding challenges across the board, officials, at least for now, seem dedicated to the Downtown Connector.
"It's extremely important to establish connectivity," said Diego Cardoso, a Metro executive officer and a city planning commissioner.
"We're talking here about the future of Los Angeles," he said. "We're talking about the future of Downtown."
Contact Anna Scott at anna@downtownnews.com.
page 3, 11/19/2007
|
|
|
Post by bluelineshawn on Nov 17, 2007 20:49:46 GMT -8
I hope that it doesn't really end up taking 7-10 years to build a 1.8 mile connector with 2 stations. They should be able to build it in 2 years of real construction and 2 years of planning, reports, and design. No reason that we shouldn't have the connector finished 5 years from now assuming that there's money for it.
|
|
|
Post by nicksantangelo on Nov 18, 2007 12:46:39 GMT -8
Shawn: I am hoping the Grand Avenue folks realize that the best time to build the Connector would be concurrent with groundbreaking on THEIR project. Of course that hinges on the money. If only these corporate types were convinced/obligated into providing congestion remediation via the Connector, we might be able to gather the money for it sooner than 7-10 years. The project is certainly large enough to request a piece for transit.
|
|
|
Post by bluelineshawn on Nov 18, 2007 13:07:06 GMT -8
I had hoped the same thing for the connector, but with the Grand Avenue groundbreaking only a month away I can't see that happening.
|
|
|
Post by kenalpern on Nov 19, 2007 6:42:14 GMT -8
The big question, of course, is whether or not any deals will be or already have been made to ensure that the developments are compatible with any future rail construction.
|
|
Mac
Full Member
Posts: 192
|
Post by Mac on Nov 19, 2007 14:05:47 GMT -8
We seriously need this connector, and we can't waste time on this...10 years is way too long. And hopefully, the development is compatible. All our lines will be lackin some ridership until this connector is finished.
|
|
|
Post by kenalpern on Nov 19, 2007 20:59:59 GMT -8
Yes, Mac, very true, and this will become paramount by 2009-2010 when not two but four light rail lines reach Downtown but not each other. I suppose Red Line ridership will go up though, huh, since everyone will be connecting to it!!! )
|
|
|
Post by roadtrainer on Nov 20, 2007 19:02:30 GMT -8
;D The best alignment for the DTC is a branch off the Blue Line at Washington Blvd. Why? do you ask? Because when the thousand in the Westside realize that they got an alternate to the Pat Brown Freeway (the TEN, don't you know). They will pack out the cars on the Expo Line and so will the people from the Crenshaw District. Thus creating a nightmare at the 7 street Metro station . Wisdom says that if 1/3 to1/2 of the blue Line trains went to Union Station via Alameda Ave. and hooked in the the Eastside Gold Line. Then the big strain at 7th st. will be eliminated. Image Going to Union Station without having to go up Flower St. and then to the Red Line. Wouldn't it be wonderful? 8-)Sincerely The Roadtrainer
|
|
|
Post by erict on Nov 20, 2007 19:39:10 GMT -8
I think that a DTC down Alameda is a great idea that should be studied. However, (I think) it would only be useful if there is first a continuation of the blue/expo line to the gold through downtown and bunker hill. First the DTC - then the Alameda Express (in the year 2050).
|
|