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Post by exporider on May 31, 2018 9:54:12 GMT -8
"It seems that single bore should save more money."
Why should single bore save operating costs? You need more platform space and more escalators/elevators to operate a stacked station so it seems logical that the operating costs should be higher.
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Post by bzzzt on May 31, 2018 12:36:21 GMT -8
"It seems that single bore should save more money." Why should single bore save operating costs? You need more platform space and more escalators/elevators to operate a stacked station so it seems logical that the operating costs should be higher. I should've specified - I was meaning that the construction cost should be cheaper - stations are a sizeable chunk of the construction budget, and by not doing utility relocation, road mitigation, nor a mezzanine, then the single bore cost should be more than 2% cheaper than the cost for dual bore. |
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Post by culvercitylocke on May 31, 2018 16:54:54 GMT -8
"It seems that single bore should save more money." Why should single bore save operating costs? You need more platform space and more escalators/elevators to operate a stacked station so it seems logical that the operating costs should be higher. I should've specified - I was meaning that the construction cost should be cheaper - stations are a sizeable chunk of the construction budget, and by not doing utility relocation, road mitigation, nor a mezzanine, then the single bore cost should be more than 2% cheaper than the cost for dual bore. its not cheaper because the public is getting scammed. It should be significantly cheaper and faster, but the firms bidding on construction want as artificially long a construction schedule as they can possibly extort out of the public, since the employees get paid more the longer the schedule lasts. So even if a single bore regional connector could be done in four years, in all likelihood, the only single bore bids would all have eight year schedules indistinguishable from eight year dual bore schedules. Until we get some strong arm state control over the outrageous ever escalating rent seeking by the contractors, we are never going to have reasonable infrastructure spending of any kind. Just look at the red line, 17 miles, 14 stations, including tunneling under a mountain range, all built for 5.5 billion by 2000, equivalent to 8 billion taking into account eighteen years of inflation. Yet if that project were to be built today, the bids would not be less than thirty four billion, and all that extra money would be wasted. And everyone would argue we should spend it because nothing can be done about costs. Which is just bs. |
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Post by bzzzt on Jun 1, 2018 15:43:13 GMT -8
Sounds like a big opportunity for an outsider ... that has the spirit and hunger of a startup .... a vertically integrated subway constructor company .... the Boring Company.
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Post by metrocenter on Jun 5, 2018 15:09:25 GMT -8
It's just tough. Every day, I take a look at the work being done at the stations and on Flower Street. And in my naïve eyes, it looks like very little activity is going on. Like, very little activity. Especially when compared to all the skyscrapers being built all over Downtown, each with dozens of workers working simultaneously to get their projects done as quickly as possible.
I wonder what kind of incentive there is for them to accelerate the project. Probably there isn't any.
Oh well, it's my problem. Maybe I'll feel better when they finally break open the knockout panels at 7th/Metro, or begin construction of the new tunnel under Alameda/Temple. Or when I see pictures of actual stations materializing (rather than holes in the ground).  |
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Post by numble on Aug 29, 2018 20:29:56 GMT -8
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Post by metrocenter on Sept 2, 2018 21:40:43 GMT -8
In May, Metro held a public celebration marking 50% completion. So, I’m unclear how in July, two months later, the project could be only 47.7% complete. |
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Post by numble on Sept 2, 2018 22:13:34 GMT -8
In May, Metro held a public celebration marking 50% completion. So, I’m unclear how in July, two months later, the project could be only 47.7% complete. The other projects use construction progress as the main barometer. For the Regional Connector, they use design+construction. So design+construction progress is at 50.9%, but you can find the construction progress in the progress reports (47.7% at end of July). Compare the progress percentage descriptions in the Regional Connector report to the Purple Line Segment 1: |
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Post by metrocenter on Sept 4, 2018 9:20:18 GMT -8
^ Oh yeah, my bad. By the way 'numble', thanks for the links to the project update documents: they are greatly appreciated!
This morning I saw that Metro is now doing significant work on the 'Eastside' branch entrance, to the east of Little Tokyo station. The entrance ramp was being dug out, and trucks were hauling off tons of dirt.
EDIT: I see from the progress report document that Metro is hoping to "Complete WYE Phase 2 excavation" by 24 September. (I suspect that this corresponds with what I observed this morning.)
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Post by numble on Sept 26, 2018 15:42:32 GMT -8
The August progress report is out: media.metro.net/projects_studies/pm/images/report_pmo_connector_2018-08.pdfOverall design and construction progress is at 52.1%, construction progress is at 49% (up from 47.7% in July) They are predicting completion in October 2021, 5 months ahead of the revised schedule of April 2022. They think testing and activation will take longer and be more difficult than previously thought: |
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Post by bzcat on Sept 26, 2018 16:23:26 GMT -8
How would testing work for the RC?
I guess they will have north bound revenue trains end their service at 7th St Metro Center then run empty to Union Station and Pico/Aliso and then what? Those trains continue empty all the way to Sierra Madre and East LA? And for south bound, revenue trains will have to end revenue service at Pico/Aliso and Union Station and run empty to Santa Monica and Del Amo?
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Post by numble on Sept 26, 2018 21:53:45 GMT -8
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Post by joemagruder on Sept 27, 2018 10:12:28 GMT -8
I should know, but... Where will the north leg of the First Street Connector Wye actually go? Where will the north portal be? Is there a map/drawing anyplace?
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Post by bzcat on Sept 27, 2018 15:54:07 GMT -8
I dind't realize there will be a phased opening with Expo (the new Gold) line opening for revenue service first. That greatly simplifies the testing process. Trains coming from East LA will end revenue service at Pico/Aliso and continue empty to 7th St Metro Center where it will resume revenue service to Santa Monica. How that will work with the Blue line still having to turn around at the crossover remains to be seen. Later on, when the new Gold line (Santa Monica to East LA) is already in regular revenue service, the testing for the new Blue line (Long Beach to Azusa) should be fairly simple. |
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Post by metrocenter on Oct 10, 2018 10:09:18 GMT -8
I posted this description of the cutovers elsewhere, will repost here:
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Post by metrocenter on Oct 10, 2018 10:23:10 GMT -8
I should know, but... Where will the north leg of the First Street Connector Wye actually go? Where will the north portal be? Is there a map/drawing anyplace? has some useful (but low-res) plan images which might be useful to you. Also, see this 2011 presentation for a map showing the north portal. In summary: the north leg will head to Union Station, just like it does now. However, the new corridor will be in a cut-and-cover tunnel, travel under Temple Street, and then emerge from a portal just north of Temple Street. The document addresses how construction at Temple Street will go down: |
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Post by metrocenter on Oct 10, 2018 10:42:59 GMT -8
The latest copy of the Regional Connector status is from July. It is here.I was incorrect. Previously, numble had posted a link to the August status report. |
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Post by fissure on Oct 11, 2018 8:56:59 GMT -8
Is the 2021 date for the LT<->LAUS segment, then? Do we know how much earlier the rest will open?
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Post by metrocenter on Oct 11, 2018 10:04:58 GMT -8
Is the 2021 date for the LT<->LAUS segment, then? Do we know how much earlier the rest will open? The August status report's chart of critical path indicates that construction will complete in November 2021, with pre-revenue operations completing (and revenue operations beginning) in winter 2022. |
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Post by numble on Oct 19, 2018 16:01:39 GMT -8
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Post by metrocenter on Oct 29, 2018 10:33:43 GMT -8
The 52.9% figure is for overall project progress (design+construction). For comparison, the Crenshaw Line's overall progress is 87.3%, and the Purple Line Section 1's overall progress is 42.1%. Construction-only progress is at 49.9%. |
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Post by numble on Nov 16, 2018 16:59:27 GMT -8
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Post by metrocenter on Nov 21, 2018 13:35:47 GMT -8
Only 0.6% increase in construction completeness. At that rate, it will take nearly 7 more years to complete this project! Kidding aside: the report says that they are still projecting Winter 2022 for start of revenue service. That's 3.5 years from now. |
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Post by numble on Dec 24, 2018 15:42:19 GMT -8
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Post by metrocenter on Jan 3, 2019 9:35:43 GMT -8
Project is 54.2% complete (design and construction), which is 0.6% progress versus 53.6% progress in October. As I said before, 0.6% per month, with 45.8% left, works out to 77 months to go. At that rate, the project will not be complete until May 2025. If they want to hit their current target of November 2021, they need to average 1.4% progress per month. I realize that projects speed up and slow down. It's not a straight line. But this is extremely slow progress. It's pretty concerning. The graph on page 11 confirms this. Progress should be speeding up at this time. Instead, it is slowing down. |
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Post by metrocenter on Jan 3, 2019 9:45:17 GMT -8
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Post by metrocenter on Jan 17, 2019 13:49:22 GMT -8
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Post by jahanes on Jan 23, 2019 15:51:33 GMT -8
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Post by numble on Feb 7, 2019 16:19:04 GMT -8
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Post by metrocenter on Feb 8, 2019 10:08:38 GMT -8
That chart says it all. Progress is decelerating, rather than accelerating. And that trend isn't new: it's been doing so since 2017.
A flat line would mean no progress at all. We're getting closer and closer to flat. As I pointed out before, if they don't do something soon to change the trend, we're looking at 2025 for project completion.
Hopefully they will resolve whatever issues they're having with concreting.
Currently, the critical path item for 2019 is the "Flower North Guideway Structure". This is the physical cut-and-cover tunnel under Flower Street. At this point, any delay in finishing that tunnel structure will delay delivery and installation of tracks, and will thus delay project completion.
Until last August, the critical path item for 2019 was considered to be the Historic Broadway station and SEM cavern. Clearly, Metro is now more concerned about a delay with the Flower Street tunnel.
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