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Post by pithecanthropus on Nov 9, 2014 21:56:46 GMT -8
I recently moved to North County, and have ridden the Sprinter a few times. As far as I've been able to observe it seems to be a success with the public, and is heavily used especially at commuting times. Moreover, although most of us would have preferred electric traction, the diesel-powered motors have more than adequate acceleration. When you're aboard, it's easy to forget you're riding in a diesel-powered train. As far as scheduling is concerned, the Sprinter seems to have hit the sweet spot between an urban rail line running at least as often as every ten minutes, and a commuter rail line with headways at least the greater part of an hour, if not more. In the spectrum from LRT to HRT--always somewhat subjective in any case--the Sprinter seems squarely in the middle, neither one nor the other, exactly.
I'm wondering if the Sprinter model could be used elsewhere in SoCal to introduce new rail service or flesh out existing routes. In the case of the Sprinter with 14-odd stops, half-hour headways, and an end-to-end run time of just under an hour, it seems to work fine with the route being mostly only one set of tracks, with a very limited number of passing tracks, or whatever the RR term for that is. (I think three passing areas are necessary and sufficient for the Sprinter.) It does seem that Sprinter-type trains would be cheaper to buy and operate, though with some definite downsides. For one thing the coaches are less comfortable than on typical commuter trains, which might make them impractical for long commutes. They might operate a little slower, too, but I'm not sure about that. The fact that single tracking would work for some new routes, though, would be a huge bonus.
Any thoughts? Has this been looked into?
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Post by masonite on Nov 10, 2014 0:09:52 GMT -8
I recently moved to North County, and have ridden the Sprinter a few times. As far as I've been able to observe it seems to be a success with the public, and is heavily used especially at commuting times. Moreover, although most of us would have preferred electric traction, the diesel-powered motors have more than adequate acceleration. When you're aboard, it's easy to forget you're riding in a diesel-powered train. As far as scheduling is concerned, the Sprinter seems to have hit the sweet spot between an urban rail line running at least as often as every ten minutes, and a commuter rail line with headways at least the greater part of an hour, if not more. In the spectrum from LRT to HRT--always somewhat subjective in any case--the Sprinter seems squarely in the middle, neither one nor the other, exactly. I'm wondering if the Sprinter model could be used elsewhere in SoCal to introduce new rail service or flesh out existing routes. In the case of the Sprinter with 14-odd stops, half-hour headways, and an end-to-end run time of just under an hour, it seems to work fine with the route being mostly only one set of tracks, with a very limited number of passing tracks, or whatever the RR term for that is. (I think three passing areas are necessary and sufficient for the Sprinter.) It does seem that Sprinter-type trains would be cheaper to buy and operate, though with some definite downsides. For one thing the coaches are less comfortable than on typical commuter trains, which might make them impractical for long commutes. They might operate a little slower, too, but I'm not sure about that. The fact that single tracking would work for some new routes, though, would be a huge bonus. Any thoughts? Has this been looked into? Yes, I agree we need something between frequent light rail and super infrequent Metrolink. I'd really like to see something like Sprinter on the San Bernadino Line. Instead service is being cut here because SB County doesn't want to fully fund Metrolink. |
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Post by Alexis Kasperavičius on Nov 10, 2014 2:19:38 GMT -8
They use them all over Germany for less travelled routes. It feels kind of like a large bus on rails and fills the need.
I bet schedulers would love to have them available as they are so much less expensive to run than a full train consist. Metrolink could probably use a few to allow off-hours servicing of a route, but they may not have considered it.
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Post by hooligan on Nov 10, 2014 9:02:35 GMT -8
on the Santa Ana ROW orange county is already used to Metrolink
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Post by Alexis Kasperavičius on Nov 10, 2014 9:52:34 GMT -8
Here's a nice video of some original DMU's still in service:
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Post by Transit Coalition on Nov 10, 2014 9:59:11 GMT -8
I recently moved to North County, and have ridden the Sprinter a few times. As far as I've been able to observe it seems to be a success with the public, and is heavily used especially at commuting times. Moreover, although most of us would have preferred electric traction, the diesel-powered motors have more than adequate acceleration. When you're aboard, it's easy to forget you're riding in a diesel-powered train. As far as scheduling is concerned, the Sprinter seems to have hit the sweet spot between an urban rail line running at least as often as every ten minutes, and a commuter rail line with headways at least the greater part of an hour, if not more. In the spectrum from LRT to HRT--always somewhat subjective in any case--the Sprinter seems squarely in the middle, neither one nor the other, exactly. I'm wondering if the Sprinter model could be used elsewhere in SoCal to introduce new rail service or flesh out existing routes. In the case of the Sprinter with 14-odd stops, half-hour headways, and an end-to-end run time of just under an hour, it seems to work fine with the route being mostly only one set of tracks, with a very limited number of passing tracks, or whatever the RR term for that is. (I think three passing areas are necessary and sufficient for the Sprinter.) It does seem that Sprinter-type trains would be cheaper to buy and operate, though with some definite downsides. For one thing the coaches are less comfortable than on typical commuter trains, which might make them impractical for long commutes. They might operate a little slower, too, but I'm not sure about that. The fact that single tracking would work for some new routes, though, would be a huge bonus. Any thoughts? Has this been looked into? Yes, I agree we need something between frequent light rail and super infrequent Metrolink. I'd really like to see something like Sprinter on the San Bernardino Line. Instead service is being cut here because SB County doesn't want to fully fund Metrolink. They use them all over Germany for less traveled routes. It feels kind of like a large bus on rails and fills the need. I bet schedulers would love to have them available as they are so much less expensive to run than a full train consist. Metrolink could probably use a few to allow off-hours servicing of a route, but they may not have considered it. Read more: transittalk.proboards.com/posts/recent#ixzz3Igf9GRWMThe Sprinter and the Blue Line are both 22 miles long. The Sprinter has a fraction of the ridership of the Blue Line (87,000 vs. 8,300). The decision was to use economical equipment for a small ridership route. The DMU equipment was probably the best decision in this case. Metrolink is a different situation. The San Bernardino route is nearly 57 miles long. Peak hour trains dictate equipment usage, as ridership is north of 700 per trip. There would be ZERO cost savings in buying and providing off-peak hour train sets, such as the DMU suggestions mentioned here. Yes, industry professionals have looked into this idea. New Metrolink Board Members bring this type of idea up all the time. It just ends up costing hundreds of thousands of dollars additional on the crew and operations side, so the idea is addressed and retired. The cutting of San Bernardino service is purely political and was directed to stick it to LA Metro, as LA Metro pays a proportion of the costs to operate the line. San Bernardino could have completely increased revenue, if they created a series of through trains with the Antelope Valley line and folks could get conveniently from the SF Valley to the San Gabriel Valley. The revenue on the Amtrak service from Santa Barbara to San Diego is far higher than trains that terminate at Union Station. For example, there is an issue of storage at the terminals. You just can't have a DMU sitting there and park a six car train set. One of these two train sets would have to be moved to a storage yard and the other train set would have to be prepared and tested. The elapsed time to do such as move could take up to an hour. Metrolink off peak trains sometimes have 15 minute turns, so the idea falls apart. This is the same reason that train sets are not shortened in the off peak hours, as this take very expensive crew time. Factually, DMU train sets are not cheaper to purchase. Crew and maintenance costs are exactly the same to operate. Railroad economics are quite different than what would appear to some of the followers of this board. I hope this clarifies. |
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Post by pithecanthropus on Nov 10, 2014 14:05:22 GMT -8
Here's a nice video of some original DMU's still in service: Nice video, thanks for posting. For anyone unfamiliar with North County, or with the Escondido-Oceanside Sprinter in particular, this is a diesel-powered system unlike the electric ones shown here. But I imagine that the overall principles of infrastructure and scheduling would be much the same, e.g. frequency/headway, number and placement of passing zones, and so on. A minor but amusing curiosity on the Sprinter: the recorded station announcements are given in a beautiful English accent. |
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Post by Alexis Kasperavičius on Nov 10, 2014 14:47:15 GMT -8
Factually, DMU train sets are not cheaper to purchase. Crew and maintenance costs are exactly the same to operate. Railroad economics are quite different than what would appear to some of the followers of this board. I hope this clarifies. Very interesting! You're right, I would think that a DMU would cost less to operate that a regular train, although with the crew costs being the same and the problems you mentioned with storage I never considered that it washes out. I have ridden the things here in Germany and it's not exactly pleasant so I wouldn't push for it The diesel engines are quite a loud drone through the entire trip, which you can hear in the video above, and you miss the best part of the train trip—here at least—beer on tap in the dining car!  |
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