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Post by joemagruder on May 10, 2017 6:39:29 GMT -8
Would this reduce the needed number of equipment sets by two?
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Post by bzcat on May 10, 2017 11:33:25 GMT -8
Amazing that it took this long for Blue line to get signal synchronization. Still no preemption though.
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Post by jdrcrasher on May 10, 2017 18:38:30 GMT -8
Niiice
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Post by bluelineshawn on May 10, 2017 19:11:25 GMT -8
1. No way that this saves 10 min from DTLB to DTLA 2. 80-90% of riders don't travel to DTLB and will see no benefit
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Post by exporider on May 10, 2017 21:01:17 GMT -8
Reality check: 10 minute time savings isn't credible if the signal synchronization is limited to Long Beach. The current travel speed on the LB portion of the Blue Line is ~7 miles in ~21 minutes = ~20 MPH. Cutting ten minutes off this travel time would result in average speeds of ~40 MPH in Long Beach, which would be impossible without closing all six stations between Del Amo and DT LB. Even cutting five minutes would be a stretch, since this would increase the average speed to ~30 MPH, which is the average speed of the Red Line subway.
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Post by bluelineshawn on May 11, 2017 19:58:23 GMT -8
Reality check: 10 minute time savings isn't credible if the signal synchronization is limited to Long Beach. The current travel speed on the LB portion of the Blue Line is ~7 miles in ~21 minutes = ~20 MPH. Cutting ten minutes off this travel time would result in average speeds of ~40 MPH in Long Beach, which would be impossible without closing all six stations between Del Amo and DT LB. Even cutting five minutes would be a stretch, since this would increase the average speed to ~30 MPH, which is the average speed of the Red Line subway. Correct but it's even worse than that. There aren't any traffic lights between wardlow and del amo so don't count that station as there are no improvements to be made. Same for willow to wardlow which already has synchronized signals. It's really just south of wardlow.
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Post by metrocenter on May 12, 2017 7:28:02 GMT -8
^ South of Willow, not south of Wardlow.
The speed-up will not have a major impact on most users. But it should save a few minutes for riders boarding either in Downtown, or at Anaheim or PCH stations. That stretch is painfully slow, far worse than bus or car (or maybe even bike).
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Post by cygnip2p on May 12, 2017 10:04:23 GMT -8
He wasn't implying that it will cut 10 minutes off of the scheduled travel time, but off of the trips that used to get trapped by lights in DTLB and spend an extra 10-20 minutes sitting.
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Post by exporider on May 13, 2017 9:27:02 GMT -8
So the schedule times would stay the same as now? That doesn't sound like a travel time improvement, but a schedule adherence improvement. Regardless, any improvement would be welcome on the Blue Line, where ridership has fallen below 70,000 average weekday riders for thew first time in an decade.
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Post by bluelineshawn on May 13, 2017 12:11:48 GMT -8
^ South of Willow, not south of Wardlow. Thanks. That's what I meant, but mistyped.
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Post by bluelineshawn on May 13, 2017 12:21:24 GMT -8
He wasn't implying that it will cut 10 minutes off of the scheduled travel time, but off of the trips that used to get trapped by lights in DTLB and spend an extra 10-20 minutes sitting. Technically not an "extra" 10 minutes since that time was already built into the schedule. The extra 10 minutes the trip takes now is due to train bunching and stopping at signals on both Washington and flower which used to be much less frequent. And I'm going to call it now. It's impossible to save 10 minutes from DTLB to willow by signal synchronization. It's only a 14 minute trip on the schedule now. Maybe they can save 3-4 minutes and 6-7 minutes somewhere else, but something is missing. This is good news but it has no affect for 90% of riders and metro is overstating the impact.
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Post by masonite on May 13, 2017 15:30:55 GMT -8
He wasn't implying that it will cut 10 minutes off of the scheduled travel time, but off of the trips that used to get trapped by lights in DTLB and spend an extra 10-20 minutes sitting. Technically not an "extra" 10 minutes since that time was already built into the schedule. The extra 10 minutes the trip takes now is due to train bunching and stopping at signals on both Washington and flower which used to be much less frequent. And I'm going to call it now. It's impossible to save 10 minutes from DTLB to willow by signal synchronization. It's only a 14 minute trip on the schedule now. Maybe they can save 3-4 minutes and 6-7 minutes somewhere else, but something is missing. This is good news but it has no affect for 90% of riders and metro is overstating the impact. Just to be clear, Metro did not say anything about the 10 minute savings (at least that I am aware of). It was from a tweet from Mayor Garcia of Long Beach. The synchronization is more from the City of Long Beach than Metro, but coordination was needed. Overall, it is good that whatever government agencies are taking time travel seriously. The Blue Line continues to bleed ridership as it is now down below 70k a weekday as of April, which is the lowest in more than a decade. Hopefully, this spurs other operational improvements along the Blue Line and the rest of the system. Faster travel times also reduces operational costs since less trains are needed for the same headways. I'd much rather see this rather than longer headways at night to save money.
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Post by bluelineshawn on May 14, 2017 13:52:36 GMT -8
Mayor Garcia is a Metro board member. IIRC from reading board materials Metro was investigating ways to save 10 min on the blue line commute and I guess this is the solution.
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Post by metrocenter on May 17, 2017 7:59:23 GMT -8
In case you hadn't seen it, Urbanize.la is running a series of articles on Metro's latest efforts to improve and speed up the Blue Line.
Today's article is all about the idea of creating express service in the middle of the line. As the article points out, this stretch is already the fastest part of the line. So overall it may not have much impact. Moreover, there may be other projects that offer more "bang-for-your-buck".
The previous article tackled how to improve the shared Flower Street segment. This part of the Blue Line has the most ridership of any segment: plus, the Expo Line uses it as well. Thus the impact on riders is huge. And, it is painfully slow. Ideas range from grade-separating the ROW (either underground or elevated) to giving the line signal priority, to closure of crossings and left-turns.
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Post by cygnip2p on Jun 26, 2017 10:20:32 GMT -8
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Post by thanks4goingmetro on Jul 6, 2017 10:46:22 GMT -8
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Post by JerardWright on Jul 15, 2017 4:42:08 GMT -8
Here's the key issues with the joint operation most of which has nothing to do with the junction; 1) Operators aren't turning trains fast enough at 7th Street Metro Center terminal. A key staff member at Metro indicated that the operational approach when they separated the lines instead of interlining the operations, eliminated the flexibility and quickness of turning back these trains because each line has a different set of operators and with the 6 minute headways of Expo Line this has compounded the problem. One going back to the interlined operations will help immensely as this will speed the turning back of trains. Longer term in 2020 the Regional Connector or at minimum the pocket tracks and new cut and cover tunnel on Flower Street will help the turn around problem as trains move through and don't get stuck. The Red/Purple Line has routine delays of service at Union Station at rush hour because of this same exact problem and the whole line is underground, that solution is widening the turnback tunnel in preparation of the Purple Line extension. 2) The signal delay for cars turning left onto 18th Street & 10 East on-ramp signals that is where the back up occurs. Closing that on-ramp and prohibiting left turns on to 18th Street from Flower will improve reliability immensely because now trains only have to deal with one signal 18th Street rather than two 18th Street and the 10 East on ramp. This not only helps the trains it helps move Flower Street more effectively because that bottleneck is removed. 3) Reliability of the Siemens trains that routinely get stuck in the tunnel and cause most of the back ups and delays, Newer trains and mid-life rehab of these trains will help with that reliability. 4) The delays through Long Beach are because of no signal preemption and/or priority enabling minor streets to hold the trains. The signal preemption and priority will improve by the service by 3-5 minutes alone. If they eliminated the Loop with a more streamlined route like two ways down Long Beach Blvd and terminal station maybe even an extension to the LB Convention Center/Shoreline Village and Pike that would also improve the operation of the trains and speed up an additional 2-3 minutes because the route operations are much simpler. If there is any crossing that needs separation in Long Beach, it is Willow Street. It's the busier station and the spot where there's multiple signals in a short distance, one for crossing Long Beach Blvd and the other at Willow Street about 500' away. 5) With the express service idea because most of my friends who used to ride the Blue Line at my home station Wardlow now drive their cars and park and ride on the Silver Line because it is a slightly faster and more pleasant trip even though it is a higher fare. With that in mind, I think a Metrolink extension from Downtown Union Station to Del Amo Station should be considered here as well. The bulk of the Blue Line ridership drops off to serve these potential riders after Del Amo Station during the peak period because of the large parking facility. This would be faster to implement and serve more customers and because most of the Blue Line from Del Amo to Washington has freight trains running parallel through it on a daily basis (one to three trains a day) this is a perfect service extension that can serve a larger regional benefit to riders. If a track is converted for the light rail to operate on a dedicated express track, this would actually add more delays and operational headaches to the shared Expo/Blue line even if the line is underground because now more trains are running through an already constrained alignment. So using Metrolink is a good way to add another entry to Downtown LA. If the express tracks were combined with the Eco Rapid Corridor serving a new route into Downtown LA that would provide the needed relief and added capacity into Downtown LA. Don't get me wrong, I think the junction and new underground station for Pico/Staples Center/Convention Center is needed however this needs to be thought of more comprehensively as an extension of the Flower Street tunnel from Convention Center all the way to Jefferson/USC with a re-configuring of the Blue Line on Washington Blvd using the eastern portion of the Expo Right of Way with new bridges and underpasses in that area will be cheaper and serve more riders and get more Federal/State grants, not just the piece meal approach that the Metro motion presents itself in. IN NEXT WEEK'S SAFETY AND OPERATIONS COMMITTEE - REPORT BACK ON THE BLUE LINE EXPRESS AND OTHER ISSUES, this is just a taste the rest can be found on the link below RECEIVE AND FILE response to Motion 37 (February 2017) on Blue Line Improvements. ISSUE At the February 2017 Planning and Programming and Construction Committee Meetings, Metro’s CEO was asked to provide an update in July 2017 in response to Motion 37 regarding the evaluation of short-term and long-term Metro Blue Line (MBL) improvements, graffiti deterrence program, last MBL stop re-imagination efforts, and the MBL Express concept. DISCUSSION Improving the speed and reliability of the Blue Line requires a multi-pronged approach. Currently, travel time through the Flower Street and Washington Boulevard corridors are governed by traffic signals at intersections that are synchronized to allow trains to operate non-stop between stations. However, this is only achievable if the trains can maintain the design speeds along each corridor and an even spacing based on the scheduled headway (6 minute on both the Blue and Expo Lines). At the Washington/Flower junction (Wye), the Blue Line speed is also restricted by the tight curvature of the track which limits operating to no more than 10 miles/hour southbound and 5 miles/hour northbound. In addition, with a combined headway of 3 minutes between the Blue and Expo Lines, the terminal operations at 7th/Metro Center requires that arriving trains alight customers, reposition to the departing track, load passengers, and depart within three minutes of the preceding train. In an ideal operating environment, trains would consistently run at the maximum designed speed, evenly spaced, without delay. However, operating issues (e.g. operational delays and vehicle reliability), and at-grade street issues (e.g. illegal left turns by motorists in front of trains and pedestrians violating traffic signals across tracks in downtown Los Angeles and Long Beach), all contribute to a real life scenario where any one of these issues can cause a delay. One delayed train causes a domino effect on all subsequent trains, resulting in inconsistent service along the entire line. A. Evaluate and Implement Short-term Blue Line and Expo Line Improvements To address the operating issues impacting speed and reliability on the Blue and Expo Lines, staff has implemented a series of short range operational improvements, including: • Ensure On-Time Train Arrivals/Departures at Terminals - Rail Operations and Security staff have been assigned to the Blue and Expo Line platforms at 7th/Metro Center to ensure that trains arrive and depart within the 3 minute combined headways. Task Force responsibilities include monitoring train movements, managing personnel, expediting passenger boarding and alighting, providing customer announcements, and restoring service when a delay occurs. • Install Safety Gate at 18th St On-Ramp to I-10 - Vehicles accessing eastbound I-10 freeway at 18th St from southbound Flower St. must make a left turn across the Metro rail tracks. Although this movement is protected by a dedicated left turn lane with signals and active ‘train approaching’ warning signs, there have been several incidences where vehicles cross the tracks illegally in front of oncoming trains. To avoid collisions, Operators are required to make a safety stop prior to the on-ramp before proceeding. This delay results in trains missing the green signal to proceed through the Washington/Flower junction. To address this safety concern, a gate arm is currently being installed, as part of a pilot project, at the vehicular left turn pocket lane to prevent illegal left turns. Should this improvement prove successful in reducing accidents, the positive (safety) stop order will be lifted allowing trains to operate through the junction without delay. • Qualify All Blue and Expo Line Operators to Work Both Lines - Previously, Blue and Expo Line operators were only trained to work the line they were assigned to. This practice does not allow the flexibility to re-route a train to either line to restore service when trains arrived at 7th/Metro Center out of sequence. As of June 2017, all Blue and Expo Line operators have been qualified to work both lines providing the opportunity to dynamically re-route trains to either destination when needed. • Deploy Blue Line Security Surge - Starting March 20, 2017, additional Security staff was assigned to patrol Blue Line trains and Blue Line stations. This “security surge” is focused on monitoring and reducing several common customer conduct issues, including harassment, loud music, and vendors. The added security presence has been well received, and is currently being deployed throughout the rest of the rail network. • New Cars on Blue Line - As of June 1, 2017, 9 Kinkisharyo P3010 rail cars have been assigned to the Blue Line. As more of these new cars are in service along the line, fleet reliability, one of the major causes of delay, is expected to improve Blue Line service as well as the customer experience. Vehicle maintenance issues currently account for about 35% of lost revenue service hours on the Blue Line. After implementing these operational improvements, Blue Line train speeds and travel time have improved between Washington Station and 7th/Metro Center. From January to April 2017, average peak hour speeds increased as much as 11%, depending on the time of day and direction of travel, which results in an actual travel time savings of up to 1.7 min along the segment. In order to achieve greater improvements in speed and reliability along the entire Blue Line, staff has engaged with the cities of Los Angeles and Long Beach to evaluate and implement short term signal, street, and intersection improvements along at-grade street running segments. Metro and Los Angeles Department of Transportation (LADOT) staff met in early May 2017 to discuss opportunities to increase speeds and reduce delays along Washington Bl., Flower St., and through the Washington/Flower junction by considering various short, mid and long term signal and street improvements. For the short term, both agencies agreed to develop and evaluate scenarios for signal timing, priority and pre-emption, select street closures, restrict left turns at selected intersections that improve rail operations and minimize impacts to vehicular and pedestrian circulation and delays. These scenarios will also consider access to and from new developments along Flower St. and future rail operating scenarios post-Regional Connector implementation. Metro is also coordinating with the City of Long Beach on its Traffic Signal Synchronization Project (TSSP) which is scheduled to begin construction in fall 2017 and will be completed by the end of the calendar year. When completed, the TSSP is anticipated to reduce travel time and delay along Long Beach Bl. through downtown Long Beach.
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Post by bzcat on Jul 17, 2017 12:32:27 GMT -8
WP1 doesn't address the vehicle traffic problem so it's pointless.
WP2 eliminates Expo vehicle traffic problem but leave Blue line as is... which is politically unacceptable. Plus it just moves the junction issue to north of Pico station instead of south.
WP3 eliminates the junction issue and most of the vehicle traffic problem - although curiously leaves a section of north bound Expo and Blue tracks at grade in mixed traffic in order to reuse the existing at grade Pico station for northbound train. I understand the split aerial and underground solution for each direction... so Metro can grade separate the junction. How much more would it cost to put the north bound Pico station underground too?
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Post by fissure on Jul 17, 2017 23:26:15 GMT -8
I'm not convinced that the flat junction itself is the source of most of the pain; the problems are due to stopping for cars. The junction at the other end of the line in Little Tokyo is flat, so why was that allowed if it was so problematic? Chicago runs a whole lot more service through the Loop with flat junctions than this stretch will ever have.
It's not clear why 4-tracking the station is so important. Even with all the development in South Park, it's still going to be a lot less busy than 7th Street. Since it would likely be cut-and-cover given the length, it would naturally have 2 side platforms anyway, which could be made wide enough to fit whatever crowd they're expecting.
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expo
Junior Member
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Post by expo on Jul 18, 2017 10:45:32 GMT -8
So how do we push for W6 + P2?
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Post by thanks4goingmetro on Jul 18, 2017 14:23:41 GMT -8
They've done a lot of the same thinking that I've done. I found that what might be most cost effective and least painful to build could be elevating the tracks from Pico station to an aerial flat wye junction and placing the Pico station on the elevated section as well as Grand station (slightly north of the junction, Expo picks up a new stop), this would put the aerial ramps on the existing sites of the current stations. More time and money could be saved by using prefabricated bridge segments once the support piles are drilled and cast. Then we'd have Blue & Expo Line trains emerge from the regional connector to bridge structure until after the lines diverge at Washington Blvd. That looks most like W5+P1 hypothetically.
Guess they could also just elevate the intersection of Washington and Flower for cars and leave the trains at ground level... Probably the cheapest option, but it won't win any awards for pedestrian friendliness though.
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Post by exporider on Jul 19, 2017 12:02:03 GMT -8
The cheapest option, which should be considered in the short-term, is to give full signal priority to the LRT lines at the Washington/Flower intersection. This can be accomplished for virtually no cost as a beta test. Run this test for a month and observe how much better the trains run, and how much worse the traffic congestion is. Perform a simple analysis of the travel time results to determine whether the overall impact is a net benefit to the multi-modal travel market.
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Post by erict on Jul 20, 2017 6:56:35 GMT -8
How about the idea (I've heard this before, I think) of abandoning the San Pedro & Grand/LATTC stations and re-routing the Blue line down Alameda St. or in that area. It won't be cheap, but it also won't be disruptive to Washington Blvd. I'm not sure what the ridership at San Pedro station is, but I doubt it's that large. Expo could stay as it is, minus the Blue Line interference. Flower/Washington would then replace Grand / LATTC. The upside is that the Fashion / Arts districts can get station or two, perhaps under or above ground. Really, the only loss is the San Pedro station, which I see as not very busy to begin with - and LATTC is a in a different location but still close. Just a thought.
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Post by Philip on Jul 20, 2017 9:22:04 GMT -8
That route is already a potential place for the Santa Ana/Artesia line.
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Post by bzzzt on Jul 20, 2017 11:19:39 GMT -8
The cheapest option, which should be considered in the short-term, is to give full signal priority to the LRT lines at the Washington/Flower intersection. This can be accomplished for virtually no cost as a beta test. Run this test for a month and observe how much better the trains run, and how much worse the traffic congestion is. Perform a simple analysis of the travel time results to determine whether the overall impact is a net benefit to the multi-modal travel market. ^^^ yep. I'd say run signal priority over every cross street all the way down to USC.
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Post by metrocenter on Oct 24, 2017 6:20:59 GMT -8
Metro has installed a small gate at the intersection of 18th and Flower, for cars turning left from Flower onto the freeway. Workers were standing next to it this morning, presumably making sure that it was working properly.
The gate is red and quite short, and is connected to a yellow box. Honestly it looks more like a gate from a parking garage, rather than something you'd see on a public street. (Sorry no picture.)
Hopefully it will do some good, in the time before someone inevitably crashes through it.
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expo
Junior Member
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Post by expo on Oct 24, 2017 10:56:08 GMT -8
Really that on-ramp should be removed completely.
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Post by metrocenter on Mar 21, 2018 19:14:43 GMT -8
Tonight's 35+ minute delay, due to a brokedown train at Florence and then shared track running, shows what we really need on the Blue Line. Unfortunately, this sort of thing happens all too often. A single broken vehicle shouldnt be able to take down the entire line.
Tomorrow the Metro Board will allocate $90+ million to the Blue Line improvement project. The Blue Line needs more crossovers and passing tracks. Unfortunately, it doesnt look like we'll be getting anything like that. Instead, the money is mostly to handle deferred maintenance - aging tracks, aging signals, aging junctions - plus new fare gates.
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Post by bluelineshawn on Mar 26, 2018 13:03:32 GMT -8
And the blue line will be shut down for 8 months. Crazy. Was metro incompetent before or incompetent now? No other option.
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Post by Philip on Mar 27, 2018 0:24:42 GMT -8
I honestly can't think of a single thing about Metro that's improved since Phil Washington became CEO. Might be time for new leadership.
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