Warner Center station after rail?

[joequality]

So when the Orange Line becomes light rail, what happens to the Warner Center station in terms of alignment? The new Canoga Park station is directly in the ROW so I see no problem, yet WC and surrounding streets seem a bit crowded. Would it be something akin to the Blue in LB where it's only one track? Omit the station altogether?

[roadtrainer]

Hello Joe;
If and when the line is converted to light rail it will be another engineering marvel! The artic's running alongside of the current right a way. Then the buses has to be rerouted around the freeway underpasses and a tempoary bridge over the L.A. River. Can tracks be pre-assembled and laid down over night and allow the Orange line buses to continue in the day time? It could be done, but you would need a shutdown of 7:pm and the construction workers quiting by 5am. Impossible you say? Naww, the Gold line at grade crossings in the Pasadena area were completed in the space of a weekend! It will be a engineering Marvel and we who like watching Metro projects being built better get your motor homes in order,get ready to camp out! Because you will see a lot of building going on.!! Sincerely The Roadtrainer

[wad]

It can be done, but slowly.

First, lay tracks between two stations at a time. Once the tracks are completed, lay a protective hard rubber surface over the tracks so the buses can use the roadway when they are done. Do this until the entire line is completed. This can be a 24-hour job, as the buses can simply leave the right of way between construction zones.

The hard rubber roadway is existing, and has been used by the military to create artificial bridges and safe roadways for tanks and other vehicles (the rubber roads can not be lifted or tampered with to hide mines or IEDs).

[Elson]

Since the Orange Line is a bus, it can operate while a rail line is being built. In certain sections, the ROW is wide enough to contain a double track rail *and* a two-lane busway with room to spare. Some segments might have to be temporarily detoured, but it's still possible.

[kenalpern]

Whether it remains a Busway or gets converted to LRT (my personal preference is the latter option), a capital investment that includes grade separation to enhance speed, safety and capacity is one that's needed on this line.

Still, a smarter and more needed investment would be to spruce up Metrolink service and upgrade the Harbor Subdivision to create the fastest, smartest rail transit from the Valley to LAX...a project that would be infinitely better for Valley residents than a 405 Busway ever would with respect to long-distance commuting.

[wad]

kenalpern said:

Still, a smarter and more needed investment would be to spruce up Metrolink service and upgrade the Harbor Subdivision to create the fastest, smartest rail transit from the Valley to LAX...a project that would be infinitely better for Valley residents than a 405 Busway ever would with respect to long-distance commuting.

I disagree.

Look at a map. You would be "boomeranging" Valley riders to the airport through an unnecessary trip through downtown L.A.

The FlyAway buses are already popular. The parking lot at the Van Nuys Airport is often full. A busway on the 405 makes this an even more attractive service. Plus, it has someting the Metrolink proposal would never have: a direct door-stop service to all LAX terminals, along with luggage service.

A 405 MIS is necessary and ought to be one of the top 5 priorities in L.A. County. The low-grade option would be a Harbor Freeway-style Transitway between Sylmar and LAX. And if you think people would not want to board a bus here, think again. There's no fast alternative to local buses (one primary reason why Harbor Transitway is a persistent failure is that the Blue Line is just a few miles east), and it already has a brisk following among peak-hour commuters. Busways would add more value to these trips.

The mid-range option would be light rail, but parallel to the freeway. The highest ridership would be routes along Van Nuys and Westwood boulevards.

The gold-medal option would be the rail route above, but fully grade-separated. If the line can generate over 50,000 boardings, it would be necessary and proper to build it as heavy rail the first time.

The difference between these services is that the airport is treated as a discrete destination. If the goal is to capture the air passenger market, build the busway. If the goal is to string together the destinations between Sylmar and LAX as a general purpose line, build rail.

[tonyw79sfv]

If the 405 busway comes to fruition, they ought to make it 4+ carpools to speed buses through and not get bogged down by hybrids. Even the 3+ rule on the El Monte Busway doesn't help. If we can't get rail, at least make buses appear to run faster by giving them more open roads.

[joequality]

Sounds like the conversion would be rather interesting, but I was specifically refering to how they would lay tracks to get to/from Warner Center, since its on the street and not part of the bus "path".

[Elson]

tonyw79sfv said:

If the 405 busway comes to fruition, they ought to make it 4+ carpools to speed buses through and not get bogged down by hybrids. Even the 3+ rule on the El Monte Busway doesn't help. If we can't get rail, at least make buses appear to run faster by giving them more open roads.

New hybrids are no longer granted the privilege of using HOV lanes, which is why used Priuses with the yellow stickers are selling for higher than market value. By the time the 405 Busway opens, only pre-2007 single occupancy hybrids will be using them.

[Elson]

joequality said:

Sounds like the conversion would be rather interesting, but I was specifically refering to how they would lay tracks to get to/from Warner Center, since its on the street and not part of the bus "path".

It all depends whether the Orange Line gets extended to Chatsworth Metrolink. Regardless, it would go on a short stretch of street running like Washington Blvd, Long Beach Blvd or Marmion Way (hopefully not as slow...)

[whitmanlam]

Is there any word or rumor on extending the Orange Line East to Burbank.

An Orangeline from Burbank media center to Warner Center... Faaaantastic... Smokin' !!!

[tonyw79sfv]

whitmanlam said:

Is there any word or rumor on extending the Orange Line East to Burbank.

An Orangeline from Burbank media center to Warner Center... Faaaantastic... Smokin' !!!

Not with the new bike path in the city of Burbank already completed, and the apartments east of the Red Line parking lot, it will be impossible to continue the Orange Line as it's own path, it would have to go on the streets in mixed traffic, which would defeat the purpose of making it a line separate from traffic (except Warner Center). There was also talk of the Orange Line continuing to Burbank Airport; that too would require it to go into mixed traffic. However, if that route came about, the Orange Line would link Fry's Electronics in Woodland Hills to the one in Burbank .

Having the Orange Line terminate at the Red Line station guarantees a bus is waiting for Red Line passengers to transfer; the buses would pick up passengers every 4 minutes instead of being bunched up if it arrives at the Red Line station from being in mixed traffic. Currenly, the Orange Line is slower than it was more than a year ago; it took 48 minutes to go from NoHo to Warner Center. The timetables shows it's only a 40 minute trip. If a subway ran from NoHo to Warner center, it would take 28 - 29 minutes.

[gibiscus]

The Warner Center stub could be extended to Thousand Oaks...

[wad]

gibiscus said:

The Warner Center stub could be extended to Thousand Oaks...

There's nothing to extend. The roads are already there.

What could be done is to move the existing hub, which is just a roadway, to Canoga Avenue and build an off-the-road bus boarding and fare control area. Not only would buses have their own land, but passengers would pay their fares before getting on the buses.

[wad]

tonyw79sfv said:

There was also talk of the Orange Line continuing to Burbank Airport; that too would require it to go into mixed traffic.

Metro defines Burbank Airport as Thornton Avenue and Hollywood Way. The buses would not go to the terminals.

The right of way through Burbank may not be productive, but connecting downtown Burbank with the Red Line would certainly be, as you'd get Metrolink and bus transfers there. It may even go as far as Glendale, Eagle Rock and Pasadena.

[macross287]

I decided to revive this topic since the Orange Line has now been extended to the Chatsworth Metrolink Station.

In my opinion the warner center street running portion of the Orange Line should become a street car/shuttle connecting the several office parks with canoga station. This would eliminate the awkward split service the Orange Line is currently using and a street car/shuttle would provide more direct service to the office parks than what the Warner Center Transit Hub currently provides.

Also the Transit Hub should be moved from Warner Center to the Canoga Station where a bus turnaround could be built for the local services.

[Elson]

Let's do a ridership survey first. Where do most passengers get on/off past Canoga -- Warner Center or Chatsworth? The winner will get the rail alignment and the loser will get a shuttle bus.

[LAofAnaheim]

Warner Center is a prime destination and it probably gets more ridership than the 4 new stations that opened. Why make it inconvenient by dropping the Warner Center segment?


Streetcars make sense for dense areas, not in open space places. Not every section of LA should get streetcars. Only downtown, Hollywood and Santa Monica/Venice make sense.

[Elson]

Jul 15, 2012 21:40:43 GMT -8 LAofAnaheim said:

Warner Center is a prime destination and it probably gets more ridership than the 4 new stations that opened. Why make it inconvenient by dropping the Warner Center segment?


Streetcars make sense for dense areas, not in open space places. Not every section of LA should get streetcars. Only downtown, Hollywood and Santa Monica/Venice make sense.

That's a funny thing to say, because several decades ago, LOTS of "open space places" in Southern California had streetcars

I think lots of other places could get streetcars. Maybe not as sophisticated as the one planned for DTLA, but a simple point-to-point one might do the job. The revival Red Car trolley in San Pedro has been proposed to be extended into the central business district area. The modern "streetcar" in the Seattle/Portland mold is a public/private partnership, and if the businesses of a certain area want to fork over enough dough to get it built there, why not?

Thats why studies are done by actual planners. Warner Center is much more dense today than it was 20 years ago, who's to say it, or any other area will look the same 20 years from now?

[macross287]

I found this rather old Draft City Plan for developments in Warner Center (from 2008).

cityplanning.lacity.org/eir/WarnerCntrRegionalCore/DEIR/Appendices/Appendix_A1_Attacments.pdf

On Page 21. The Plan discusses changes to Orange Line Service in the area with a 3 phase approach

Phase 1: A fourth station is added in the vicinity of Oxnard and Variel Street.
Phase 2: Add a modern streetcar or other transit system that will 1) provide local access within Warner Center, 2) reduce the amount of parking required so that development can occur at a higher density, and 3) serve as a "development magnet."
Phase 3: If the Orange Line transitions from bus to light rail and three bus stations (Canoga, Warner Center and the new Variel Station) are eliminated, the combined Orange Line Rail Station, Owensmouth Transit Hub, and streetcar will maintain transit service throughout Warner Center.

I guess the city considers it likely that the street running portion of the Orange line may be dropped when the Orange Line is eventually converted to Light Rail.