Orange Line Noho terminus

[blueridge]

I've been using the Orange Line a lot lately and it is really a great line. (Yes it would be better if it were Light Rail, but it's still a great option for getting across the valley to the Red Line.) However, every time I get off at Lankershim and have to cross the street I have to shake my head. It just makes no sense that there isn't an entrance to the Noho station on the west side of Lankershim. I remember that this was being looked at. Is there any update in regards to this actually being built?

[erict]

The MTA should bundle this project in with the extension to Chatsworth - although it probably will add 20 million or so to the cost. After the MTA's bleak update to the LRTP it seems there is little money for anything till 2035.

[Transit Coalition]

Zev did not want to provide this betterment, as he believes
that a developer should pay the $15 million or so to open
up the west side of the portal.

This project may also be in the Metro Small Starts Grant
that is slowly moving through the Federal System.

Every so often this issue come up at the Metro Board
meeting, so maybe there will be an answer in a few years.

[blueridge]

Thanks for the answer Bart. Wow $15 or even $20 million? I remember when they were building the original Noho station in that area. Lankershim at that point was completely trenched and covered with iron plates. In fact the plates ran all the way up to the Ford dealership. I would think the station would have been built with a west of Lankershim portal in mind and it wouldn't cost that much to add an entrance to the station. I know there are ADA concerns that would require another elevator, but $15 to $20 million....I'm not doubting your figure as you are well-versed on this stuff but that just seems crazy. I ALMOST agree with Zev!

[erict]

I just made that number up - I have no idea what it would actually cost.

[tonyw79sfv]

I find it amusing that there are two entrances/exits for the Universal City station, making it easy to transfer to Metro Rapid 750; but for a station with more transfers, North Hollywood, it requires walking across Lankershim at-grade (everything about the Orange Line is about being at grade, except freeways and rivers). Surely, Rapid 750 was part of the Universal City station from day one when it opened while the Orange Line started 5 years after North Hollywood station.

One thing I noticed about transfers in the Metro Rail system, each new transfer point that gets made, the older ones have easier transfers. Metro Red/Blue Lines (1993) - lines are both underground and a couple stair steps away; Metro Blue/Green Lines (1995) lines are both outdoors (one under the freeway, the other in the middle) but still a couple stair steps a way; Metro Red/Gold (2003) - no connector is really made, you walk through existing Union Station corridors and walk deep into the Red Line station, Gold is outdoor under shade and Red is indoors; Metro Red/Orange Lines (2005), the worst transfer, Red is indoors and is an existing station, Orange is a shaded platform, but you must cross busy Lankershim to get there, if it rains, Lankershim becomes a river, same deep walk into the Red Line platform. Expo and Gold Line eastside would use the same existing transfer. I would be curious as to how worst the next transfer station will be.

[Mac]

I think it would turn into a transfer station that they have in Beijing. From line 2(subway) you would walk up tons of stairs(most exits/entrances don't have escalators, even if they do, they have them going only in 1 direction all day, which makes no sense), cross two busy streets(lets just say, your chances of getting run over is 10x more than it is on the busiest street of America. Red light= go yellow light=go green light=go) Then you would have to climb another set of stairs to line 13(elevaded) No need to go to 24 hour fitness after that!

[norm]

If you haven't noticed, the Planning and Programming Committee agenda is going to approve plans for a major TOD at Lankershim & Chandler which will include a passage way from the Orange line to the Red Line.

[whitmanlam]

I'm shocked there hasn't been any planning for extending the Orange Line east ward to Burbank Media Center, or at least to Burbank Metrolink station.

It should be a no-brainer, Burbank is the natural terminus for this Orange Line.

[erict]

Yes but they just finished the lovely park and bike path along that unused rail line. It could easily be changed in the future to an orange line extension.

[kingsfan]

Why that would be crazy, extending the orange line to Burbank. Next think you know they'll end the Green line at LAX.

[LAofAnaheim]

From what I remember in the Transit Coalition meetings, $110 or $190 million has been earmarked for a north/south transitway in the valley, and this money has to be allocated by 2009. That's why the MTA is working diligently on the Orange Line extension to Chatsworth.

[kenalpern]

...and whaddaya know, kingsfan? We might just very well see that LAX/Green Line extension!

[blueridge]

norm said:

If you haven't noticed, the Planning and Programming Committee agenda is going to approve plans for a major TOD at Lankershim & Chandler which will include a passage way from the Orange line to the Red Line.

This is good news!!! Looking over the document above answered a few questions for me. Yes the Noho station was built with KOPs (I sound like I know what I'm talking about now!) or "knock out panels" that allow for additional portals to be added. According to the site plan, the Orange Line terminus would move east of Lankershim under a parking deck. According to the requirements from MTA the terminus must stay where it is. No big deal, I'm sure this will be worked out and there will be a better transfer between the Orange Line and Red Line. Also, the way I read it, the transportation aspects of this project must be accomplished in Phase 1. So, this looks like an exciting TOD for Noho. Hopefully it will get built someday.

[wad]

whitmanlam said:

I'm shocked there hasn't been any planning for extending the Orange Line east ward to Burbank Media Center, or at least to Burbank Metrolink station.

Do you mean the mall in downtown, or where all the studios are at? If it's the former, it's only two blocks from the train station.

[erict]

I think that the mean continuing the Orange line on Chandler until it reaches the metrolink station in Burbank next to the 5 fwy.

[Tony Fernandez]

If the Orange Line was ever converted to light rail then to continue west it should go underground and follow Burbank Blvd.

[Mac]

Hey, not just burbank, we could even extended to Glendale and Pasadena. People can take Orange line from Pasadena to work at the Studios at Burbank.

[wad]

You're on the right wavelength, Mac.

Just thinking out loud, but why not a cross-Valley busway, connecting the western San Fernando Valley with the eastern San Gabriel Valley. The Foothill Gold Line is not going to have great ridership to begin with, but what about another busway miracle like on the Orange Line?

[kenalpern]

Others know more than I do about this, but such an idea is already being explored by folks in Metro and in the Glendale/Burbank city governments.

[Mac]

wad said:

You're on the right wavelength, Mac.

Just thinking out loud, but why not a cross-Valley busway, connecting the western San Fernando Valley with the eastern San Gabriel Valley. The Foothill Gold Line is not going to have great ridership to begin with, but what about another busway miracle like on the Orange Line?

Well, i think that it should be turned into a rail line. The Orange line is at its limited capacity, plus it is also starting to slow down at bit. But just think about it: A Chatsworth-Burbank-Pasadena line, that would be really nice. And of course you can't miss out on Bob Hope Airport.

[tonyw79sfv]

I'm sure Metro would have made the Orange Line a light rail line if it weren't for the homeowner's association and NIMBY's. Well, to the NIMBY's who thinks light rail is an intrusion, how does the CNG engines sound to you? The Orange Line is popular, it's helping to mitigate traffic (there was some study that showed that it did make a dent on the 101 traffic), connects colleges, helps people use their cars less (the Orange Line is kind of a Red Line park & ride shuttle), bridges the gap between busy corridors like Reseda, Sepulveda, and Van Nuys to the Red Line and Metro Rail system. NIMBYs have to get over it, oppose a good solution like public transportation, then those people can rot in their own traffic-inducing smog. Now only if LADOT can cooperate and make the traffic signals give real priority to the Orange Line (but give other buses on perpendicular routes a chance to go through), so that it can be as fast as the Blue or Gold Line. One solution to provide more capacity on the Orange Line is not just higher frequency or larger buses, it's making the end to end trip faster so that people get to their destination faster, hence, the need for better traffic signaling.

[kenalpern]

...and as light rail gets approved in the Westside, the Eastside, the SGV and elsewhere, perhaps the SFV will realize that its Orange Line could be upgraded to a light rail.

Such a realization and potential transit mode change will, however, occur over 10-20 years.

[dasubergeek]

mac said:

Hey, not just burbank, we could even extended to Glendale and Pasadena. People can take Orange line from Pasadena to work at the Studios at Burbank.

There's already a Commuter Express that does exactly this for 90c instead of $1.25. It's a great deal more comfortable -- the only issue being it runs only during commute times.

[Mac]

Here is my Plan for a orange line Light rail to union station, to pasadena. I'm not very sure what route is the best through silver lake.
The map is a bit oversized so hers the link
i191.photobucket.com/albums/z260/mac412626/Orangelineeast.jpg?t=1190689142

[whitmanlam]

I was just wondering...
would it be possible to add overhead electric wires on high capacity busways like the Orange Line and El Monte busway, and to run Trolley buses instead of those juggernaut fuel guzzlers we currently run.

I'm thinking with electric buses, maybe we can have 80 or 100' vehicles for added capacity. These can carry more passengers than the currrent articulated buses.
Maybe they can be double articulated with electric overhead power to save on Natural gas.

[erict]

I personally think that the SFV deserves a bus line instead of a rail line. I guss it could be electric, but it seems the residents would most likly fight that. The valley girls and boys did there best to oppose, oppose, oppose - anything the MTA came up with. Even getting the busway built went through several lawsuits. I think we should move on and focus on other parts of the city that EMBRACE rail, such as the Westside(finally), the Eastside, Santa Monica, the SGV and Downtown.

[tonyw79sfv]

Not to pick a fight, but the SFV embraces public transportation more. There's more people on the Orange Line than on the present Gold Line. It's not the Valley as a whole that opposes rail, it's the few powerful people who don't speak on behalf of the Valley, especially the East San Fernando Valley; but they got the money and power to do what they want. Run a rail line where people of the SFV won't mind, on Van Nuys Blvd, following the route of the 761, and you'll encounter fewer opposition. You can see that the 233/761 is the only Valley corridor with artics running on both Local and Rapid lines (like Vermont). The 761 carries a lot of transit dependants and a few well to do people, like me, and this is where you'll find support for rail, not in the area "south of the (Ventura) Boulevard". West and South San Fernando Valley are tied to the same mentality as the Westside and are the ones ruining better transportation for the San Fernando Valley.

[wad]

whitmanlam said:

I'm thinking with electric buses, maybe we can have 80 or 100' vehicles for added capacity. These can carry more passengers than the currrent articulated buses.
Maybe they can be double articulated with electric overhead power to save on Natural gas.

You're talking about a beast that does not exist, and when Metro specs it out, a vehicle costs more than a rail car.

Another problem is that once you get to something of that length, it's going to need rails. There are about a dozen guided busways in the world that have grooves to stabilize wheels.

This is not needed. The advantage of a busway is to utilize a common guideway and trunk up service while having infrequent service on branches. Metro pissed away this opportunity with the Orange Line.

See MetroRiderLA's Miami Option to see how the Orange Line could still be converted to such a busway.

[whitmanlam]

I guess it's how you define success. On one hand, they built something useful with a smaller budget for a very critical region of the Valley.

On the other hand, they will need to ramp up service, either by running more frequent buses, or purchasing those Curitaba double articulated buses I talked about.

It's a smash hit with people who already ride buses. But for the people who are trying it for the first time: it's a crowded, bumpy, and slow ride. It might create a negative picture for the rest of Metro, and such commuters could leave the big Orange, and go back to the 101 freeway shuffle.

Electrification will only help reduce fuel consumption. Spend some of that money saved, to run more bus service ??

How about an Express bus that skips every other Orange Line stop ?