Post by bennyp81 on Jun 23, 2005 9:22:06 GMT -8
EC
User ID: 0234554 Oct 9th [2002] 11:58 PM
Here's the website for the Santa Monica Blvd. project. It makes me cry to see them paving over an existing right of way to make basically a highway.
*sigh*
www.ci.la.ca.us/bpw/Transit_Parkway_Proj.htm
Marty
User ID: 0854544 Nov 20th 12:19 AM
Check out the new renderings they have of the SM Blvd Transit Parkway (see EC's link above). The street between Beverly Hills & the 405 is really going to look like a completely different place. It's a shame that there won't be any rail there, but at least they're finally doing SOMETHING with the street. I used to live @ Westwood & Santa Monica and man, that place was a dump.
A couple of the pictures show dedicated bus lanes, but I'm not sure how long they will run for.
Cliffj
User ID: 9851073 Nov 20th 3:31 AM
EC can you email me? Tried to email you several times but seem to be having trouble.
Cliffj
EC
User ID: 0234554 Nov 20th 9:45 PM
Cliffj which email address the @yahoo or @cox?
Marty
User ID: 0854544 Jan 11th [2003] 1:59 PM
Groundbreaking will be January 31st.
Andrew S
User ID: 0269124 Jan 11th 2:40 PM
And one of the few remaining ROWs will bite the dust. I hope everyone on the Westside is very happy with their wonderful new road.
John
User ID: 9510053 Jan 11th 2:56 PM
Perhaps a busway could be constructed on the new road. I would consider that to be mighty fine.
Robert
User ID: 8952923 Jan 11th 3:13 PM
Andrew,
Yes we are HAPPY with the improvements being made on Santa Monica Boulevard.
Don't you remember, putting in a LRT system down a street takes away travel lanes. I need a place to travel with my SUV that is helping out "those people" that are half way around the world. I don't see why we have to subsidies those transit users anyway, I don't get subsidized for driving my SUV. The solution for all the Westsider's traffic problems is to Extend The 90 Freeway as planned, put in the South Bay Loop off the 405 that travels through Long Beach along 7th till it meets the 22. Double Deck the 405 from the Valley to the 5/405 "Y" in Orange County. Oh, yes, don't forget the plans to extend the Terminal Island Freeway all the way to Down Town Los Angeles. (All of these projects, and more were on the drawing boards in the 60's)
Doing these projects will solve all are transportation problems.
We need to open up more docks for the Oil Tankers. It's a shame that they closed some of those nice Oil Refineries in the South Bay, that would help keep the price of oil down.
For Those that don't have cars or can't drive, Tough Luck, I got my SUV.
NIMBY Bob ;o)
Numan Parada
User ID: 2170744 Jan 11th 4:52 PM
Hah! Silly, silly Bob!
It's funny how ambitions seem to dry up over the years. Personally, I'd be OK with the 90 Freeway, but that's highly unlikely to be built. As for that double-decking, forget it. The "South Bay Loop"? I just heard about that one. That leaves us with the only freeway that Caltrans would seriously consider building (and has at one time adopted): The Terminal Island Freeway (Route 47) to Downtown. That has a better shot of being built, in light of increased traffic in our ports, but that's it.
Saadi
User ID: 9161143 Jan 11th 5:09 PM
Bob the only thing is the owners of chevron enron and halloburton are in our own backyard, not halfway around the world. Believe me a majority of the people in those countries halfway around the world are not getting rich off that oil we so dutifully consume, however our next door neighbors at those companies mentioned definitly are(and in the case of enron were).
Robert
User ID: 8952923 Jan 11th 8:59 PM
Saddi,
That reference was that the SUV's are not gas efficient, and the money for gas goes to the Mid East to help Support the Terrorists. (New controversial ad campaign.)
Bob
Saadi
User ID: 9161143 Jan 11th 9:22 PM
Well the idea behind that whole controversy is a little bit more complicated than that. The benefit of us not using all this oil is that we won't be as dependent on the oil from the middle east, and as a result our government would not feel so compelled to go over and control countries that do not want to be controlled by us. The imperialist west is what is causing terriorist to come over here and blow up buildings.
Robert
User ID: 8952923 Jan 11th 9:53 PM
Saadi,
Is this not also the reason all of us wants to have good transit in Los Angeles, to reduce our requirements on oil?
Bob
Saadi
User ID: 9161143 Jan 11th 10:04 PM
Robert what's your point?
I agree, however earlier you said all the money is going half way across the world, when in fact it is not. It is going into the pockets of the people that are at the top echelon of oil and car companies, most of which reside in america and england. So if we want to lay blame it should first lay at our own feet and at those of the people that further push our foreign policies through.
So in the end that is part of why I support mass transit in los angeles however my point with you was where this money really was going.
Cliffj
User ID: 0812164 Jan 12th 6:41 AM
Saadi,
I believe Bob was making a parody of the new controversial TV ads that says the money from the gas that goes into our SUV's are, after a series of exchanges END UP supporting terroist. Haven't you seen the news stories about how TV stations in some cities (KABC in LA included) are refusing to run the ads? It's a project called The Detroit Project and the commercials are being produced by columnist Arianna Huffington and other Hollywood-types who've traded in their SUV's for environmentally safe hybrid vehicles. So, it's NOT ABOUT BOB....OK?
Roberto
User ID: 9161143 Jan 12th 7:53 AM
Bob's rant was a SATIRE ... but I guess you would have to have seen the commercials to understand.
And in some Middle Eastern countries, they DO get rich off the oil ... why do you think the quality of life in some of those places is almost the same as in Europe, yet the people pay ZERO tax? Other parts of the region don't profit as much because their corrupt leadership squanders all the revenues on war and in building huge monuments to itself.
Saadi
User ID: 9161143 Jan 12th 1:21 PM
Sorry guys but I haven't seen the add, however I love Arianna Hoffington and had heard about them. Reguardless of the "SATIRE" of Bob's statements I don't think it is good to make points that are not factual. There is very few places in the middle east that the quality of life is even remotely close to those freedoms of the west and europe. You are correct about the corrupt leadership, however you aren't speaking of who helped put that leadership in place. In much of the middle east the quality of life has gone down since the west has been involved.
Robert
User ID: 8952923 Jan 12th 7:00 PM
Saadi,
We all need to have some fun now and then. One reason I closed the post with "NIMBY Bob ;o)" was for you and others to take what I said with a grain of salt. Everything that I said has been said before by others, maybe using different words. We have to laugh at ourselves from time to time. I did not intend to offend anyone, just show how ridiculous some of these statements are. Friends kid around with each other. If I did not consider the posters (well most all) on this board friends, I would not have made the above post, and most likely, delete this boards link from my Favorites list.
Saadi, you are a good example of why ABC and many other TV stations are not running the ad. But, on these same stations, the ads made the news, so they got their information across for free.
I would agree with you, when we are stating facts, we should be sure they are correct to the best of our knowledge, by observations, by common logic or by valid reference. We have to know our sources, like we promote rail and have valid facts, but we realize that rail is not valid for every route or corridor. We try to look at the overall cost over the life of the system, not just looking at a snapshot in time in showing costs. We are also aware of other benefits that you can not put an exact cost on in evaluating projects, for example, each transfer loses passengers.
If we can not let our hair down if we have any left, and have some enjoyment with each others posts, then this board would be dull and not worth the time to use it.
Bob
Saadi
User ID: 9161143 Jan 12th 9:42 PM
Bob I agree its nice to have comradery, and don't get me wrong I love this site and our cause as much as the next guy, however I don't think it is a good decision to make false statements on really sensitive topics on the internet, even in jest.
I also think that we can become overly comfortable with our dialogue on this site, partly because we could be sitting in our homes in our underwear writing these responses, however as hard as it is to believe we are still in a very large public forum and I think there needs to be a certain level of formality to this interchange, especially when we are attempting the level of social change that we are. it is not about making it boring but it is about making it accountable and respected.
Marty
User ID: 0854544 Jan 13th 1:26 AM
Andrew, Bob, & Co.
In defense of the Santa Monica Blvd project, that ROW was dead anyway. It used to go from the 405 to WeHo, but much of it is blocked up now with parking garages in Beverly Hills. Either way, it would have had to connect to another part of the rail system to be useful, and there was nothing to connect to.
The entire thing in Beverly Hills would never be used unless tunnelling was done under Santa Monica Blvd in WeHo. The only part that is useful is the section b/w Wilshire/SM and Century City, which could have eventually been used for the Red Line. However this wouldn't have happened for like 20 years anyway, and there will still be plenty of real estate on that roadway if they plan on putting the Red Line there in the future.
If the tracks were more continuous I would also be sad to see them go, but the fact was that it was damn ugly and that it caused traffic nightmares with the left turns b/w Little and Big SMBs. The new boulevard will allow raffic will flow much better and will be an asset to the commnunity. While the roadway will continue to feed LA's car culture, this section of road was just too far off from being used for rail.
They DO plan to use part of the street for dedicated bus lanes and bike lanes. The MTA primarily did this because they wanted to lure John back to the Westside.
ps - Saadi, How'd you know I was sitting at home in my underwear? j/k...
Cliffj
User ID: 0812164 Jan 13th 3:45 AM
HAHAHAHA MARTY!!!
Ken Alpern
User ID: 0923684 Jan 13th 7:39 AM
I agree with Marty--the decision to making a rail line out of the Santa Monica ROW was dead years ago, if not decades ago.
As much as the car culture has hurt L.A. somewhat, this Santa Monica project WILL be an asset to the community in that it is preferred by most local communities and drivers.
Furthermore, it is the closest thing that will ever occur to making the old planned Santa Monica Blvd. "freeway" a reality. If car traffic flows better, there is improved bus and bike service, and that whole lame "big/little Santa Monica" concept is gone, this will serve that region well until the idea of Westside subway service can be revisited.
User ID: 0234554 Oct 9th [2002] 11:58 PM
Here's the website for the Santa Monica Blvd. project. It makes me cry to see them paving over an existing right of way to make basically a highway.
*sigh*
www.ci.la.ca.us/bpw/Transit_Parkway_Proj.htm
Marty
User ID: 0854544 Nov 20th 12:19 AM
Check out the new renderings they have of the SM Blvd Transit Parkway (see EC's link above). The street between Beverly Hills & the 405 is really going to look like a completely different place. It's a shame that there won't be any rail there, but at least they're finally doing SOMETHING with the street. I used to live @ Westwood & Santa Monica and man, that place was a dump.
A couple of the pictures show dedicated bus lanes, but I'm not sure how long they will run for.
Cliffj
User ID: 9851073 Nov 20th 3:31 AM
EC can you email me? Tried to email you several times but seem to be having trouble.
Cliffj
EC
User ID: 0234554 Nov 20th 9:45 PM
Cliffj which email address the @yahoo or @cox?
Marty
User ID: 0854544 Jan 11th [2003] 1:59 PM
Groundbreaking will be January 31st.
Andrew S
User ID: 0269124 Jan 11th 2:40 PM
Groundbreaking will be January 31st.
And one of the few remaining ROWs will bite the dust. I hope everyone on the Westside is very happy with their wonderful new road.
John
User ID: 9510053 Jan 11th 2:56 PM
And one of the few remaining ROWs will bite the dust. I hope everyone on the Westside is very happy with their wonderful new road.
Perhaps a busway could be constructed on the new road. I would consider that to be mighty fine.
Robert
User ID: 8952923 Jan 11th 3:13 PM
Andrew,
Yes we are HAPPY with the improvements being made on Santa Monica Boulevard.
Don't you remember, putting in a LRT system down a street takes away travel lanes. I need a place to travel with my SUV that is helping out "those people" that are half way around the world. I don't see why we have to subsidies those transit users anyway, I don't get subsidized for driving my SUV. The solution for all the Westsider's traffic problems is to Extend The 90 Freeway as planned, put in the South Bay Loop off the 405 that travels through Long Beach along 7th till it meets the 22. Double Deck the 405 from the Valley to the 5/405 "Y" in Orange County. Oh, yes, don't forget the plans to extend the Terminal Island Freeway all the way to Down Town Los Angeles. (All of these projects, and more were on the drawing boards in the 60's)
Doing these projects will solve all are transportation problems.
We need to open up more docks for the Oil Tankers. It's a shame that they closed some of those nice Oil Refineries in the South Bay, that would help keep the price of oil down.
For Those that don't have cars or can't drive, Tough Luck, I got my SUV.
NIMBY Bob ;o)
Numan Parada
User ID: 2170744 Jan 11th 4:52 PM
Hah! Silly, silly Bob!
It's funny how ambitions seem to dry up over the years. Personally, I'd be OK with the 90 Freeway, but that's highly unlikely to be built. As for that double-decking, forget it. The "South Bay Loop"? I just heard about that one. That leaves us with the only freeway that Caltrans would seriously consider building (and has at one time adopted): The Terminal Island Freeway (Route 47) to Downtown. That has a better shot of being built, in light of increased traffic in our ports, but that's it.
Saadi
User ID: 9161143 Jan 11th 5:09 PM
Bob the only thing is the owners of chevron enron and halloburton are in our own backyard, not halfway around the world. Believe me a majority of the people in those countries halfway around the world are not getting rich off that oil we so dutifully consume, however our next door neighbors at those companies mentioned definitly are(and in the case of enron were).
Robert
User ID: 8952923 Jan 11th 8:59 PM
Saddi,
That reference was that the SUV's are not gas efficient, and the money for gas goes to the Mid East to help Support the Terrorists. (New controversial ad campaign.)
Bob
Saadi
User ID: 9161143 Jan 11th 9:22 PM
Well the idea behind that whole controversy is a little bit more complicated than that. The benefit of us not using all this oil is that we won't be as dependent on the oil from the middle east, and as a result our government would not feel so compelled to go over and control countries that do not want to be controlled by us. The imperialist west is what is causing terriorist to come over here and blow up buildings.
Robert
User ID: 8952923 Jan 11th 9:53 PM
Saadi,
Is this not also the reason all of us wants to have good transit in Los Angeles, to reduce our requirements on oil?
Bob
Saadi
User ID: 9161143 Jan 11th 10:04 PM
Robert what's your point?
I agree, however earlier you said all the money is going half way across the world, when in fact it is not. It is going into the pockets of the people that are at the top echelon of oil and car companies, most of which reside in america and england. So if we want to lay blame it should first lay at our own feet and at those of the people that further push our foreign policies through.
So in the end that is part of why I support mass transit in los angeles however my point with you was where this money really was going.
Cliffj
User ID: 0812164 Jan 12th 6:41 AM
Saadi,
I believe Bob was making a parody of the new controversial TV ads that says the money from the gas that goes into our SUV's are, after a series of exchanges END UP supporting terroist. Haven't you seen the news stories about how TV stations in some cities (KABC in LA included) are refusing to run the ads? It's a project called The Detroit Project and the commercials are being produced by columnist Arianna Huffington and other Hollywood-types who've traded in their SUV's for environmentally safe hybrid vehicles. So, it's NOT ABOUT BOB....OK?
Roberto
User ID: 9161143 Jan 12th 7:53 AM
Bob's rant was a SATIRE ... but I guess you would have to have seen the commercials to understand.
And in some Middle Eastern countries, they DO get rich off the oil ... why do you think the quality of life in some of those places is almost the same as in Europe, yet the people pay ZERO tax? Other parts of the region don't profit as much because their corrupt leadership squanders all the revenues on war and in building huge monuments to itself.
Saadi
User ID: 9161143 Jan 12th 1:21 PM
Sorry guys but I haven't seen the add, however I love Arianna Hoffington and had heard about them. Reguardless of the "SATIRE" of Bob's statements I don't think it is good to make points that are not factual. There is very few places in the middle east that the quality of life is even remotely close to those freedoms of the west and europe. You are correct about the corrupt leadership, however you aren't speaking of who helped put that leadership in place. In much of the middle east the quality of life has gone down since the west has been involved.
Robert
User ID: 8952923 Jan 12th 7:00 PM
Saadi,
We all need to have some fun now and then. One reason I closed the post with "NIMBY Bob ;o)" was for you and others to take what I said with a grain of salt. Everything that I said has been said before by others, maybe using different words. We have to laugh at ourselves from time to time. I did not intend to offend anyone, just show how ridiculous some of these statements are. Friends kid around with each other. If I did not consider the posters (well most all) on this board friends, I would not have made the above post, and most likely, delete this boards link from my Favorites list.
Saadi, you are a good example of why ABC and many other TV stations are not running the ad. But, on these same stations, the ads made the news, so they got their information across for free.
I would agree with you, when we are stating facts, we should be sure they are correct to the best of our knowledge, by observations, by common logic or by valid reference. We have to know our sources, like we promote rail and have valid facts, but we realize that rail is not valid for every route or corridor. We try to look at the overall cost over the life of the system, not just looking at a snapshot in time in showing costs. We are also aware of other benefits that you can not put an exact cost on in evaluating projects, for example, each transfer loses passengers.
If we can not let our hair down if we have any left, and have some enjoyment with each others posts, then this board would be dull and not worth the time to use it.
Bob
Saadi
User ID: 9161143 Jan 12th 9:42 PM
Bob I agree its nice to have comradery, and don't get me wrong I love this site and our cause as much as the next guy, however I don't think it is a good decision to make false statements on really sensitive topics on the internet, even in jest.
I also think that we can become overly comfortable with our dialogue on this site, partly because we could be sitting in our homes in our underwear writing these responses, however as hard as it is to believe we are still in a very large public forum and I think there needs to be a certain level of formality to this interchange, especially when we are attempting the level of social change that we are. it is not about making it boring but it is about making it accountable and respected.
Marty
User ID: 0854544 Jan 13th 1:26 AM
Andrew, Bob, & Co.
In defense of the Santa Monica Blvd project, that ROW was dead anyway. It used to go from the 405 to WeHo, but much of it is blocked up now with parking garages in Beverly Hills. Either way, it would have had to connect to another part of the rail system to be useful, and there was nothing to connect to.
The entire thing in Beverly Hills would never be used unless tunnelling was done under Santa Monica Blvd in WeHo. The only part that is useful is the section b/w Wilshire/SM and Century City, which could have eventually been used for the Red Line. However this wouldn't have happened for like 20 years anyway, and there will still be plenty of real estate on that roadway if they plan on putting the Red Line there in the future.
If the tracks were more continuous I would also be sad to see them go, but the fact was that it was damn ugly and that it caused traffic nightmares with the left turns b/w Little and Big SMBs. The new boulevard will allow raffic will flow much better and will be an asset to the commnunity. While the roadway will continue to feed LA's car culture, this section of road was just too far off from being used for rail.
They DO plan to use part of the street for dedicated bus lanes and bike lanes. The MTA primarily did this because they wanted to lure John back to the Westside.
ps - Saadi, How'd you know I was sitting at home in my underwear? j/k...
Cliffj
User ID: 0812164 Jan 13th 3:45 AM
The MTA primarily did this because they wanted to lure John back to the Westside.
HAHAHAHA MARTY!!!
Ken Alpern
User ID: 0923684 Jan 13th 7:39 AM
I agree with Marty--the decision to making a rail line out of the Santa Monica ROW was dead years ago, if not decades ago.
As much as the car culture has hurt L.A. somewhat, this Santa Monica project WILL be an asset to the community in that it is preferred by most local communities and drivers.
Furthermore, it is the closest thing that will ever occur to making the old planned Santa Monica Blvd. "freeway" a reality. If car traffic flows better, there is improved bus and bike service, and that whole lame "big/little Santa Monica" concept is gone, this will serve that region well until the idea of Westside subway service can be revisited.