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Post by bluelineshawn on Aug 17, 2007 22:04:23 GMT -8
MTA linkI don't know about all of the numbers, but the blue line numbers for the weekend look off. The weekend ridership has been noticeably lower, yet the statistics show that the numbers are relatively unchanged. There's just no way that is accurate. I don't know how they do their estimating, but something is off. I haven't ridden many weekdays, but it seemed very much like normal so that part of the stats seems correct. Anyone have any input for the other lines?
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Post by masonite on May 15, 2009 9:12:44 GMT -8
April ridership numbers came out and bus ridership continues to decline while rail ridership continues to soar (293k boardings) with most of that ridership coming on the Red/Purple line. Looks like the Gold Line numbers continue to perk up now with an almost respectable 24k riders a day. Any thoughts on why rail ridership is holding up so much better over the last year or two vs. bus ridership?
I am not too surprised by this given the advantages of rail, but given the criticisms from people like Prof. Moore who will say we have spent this much more money, but don't have anymore overall riders, I don't really think this is a good thing. We need to keep our bus ridership relatively steady even as we add new rail capacity and ridership.
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Post by ieko on May 15, 2009 12:31:33 GMT -8
Well, if I had to guess I'd say it was because generally people really prefer trains over busses, so they'd rather walk or drive to a rail station instead of take the bus. Not to mention save time if the bus service isn't frequent.
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Post by erict on May 15, 2009 14:24:14 GMT -8
When the rail numbers hit 500,000 per pay, rail will be treated very differently. But that is a long way off... One day rail and bus will be equal.
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Post by masonite on May 15, 2009 14:39:12 GMT -8
When the rail numbers hit 500,000 per pay, rail will be treated very differently. But that is a long way off... One day rail and bus will be equal. I agree. I always thought we don't even really have a rail system (just a few rail lines) until we get to that magical half million mark. We'll need the Purple Line extension to get there though. On a positive note, we should pass San Francisco for 2nd largest light rail network after Boston as soon as Expo to Crenshaw opens (maybe even with Eastside Gold). Another area where we really fall short is in Commuter Rail compared to other Metro areas. We have a huge network, but such spotty service our ridership is low. Hopefully, we can add some more service on our lines including late evening so people don't feel stranded and this number can really soar. |
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Post by bluelineshawn on May 15, 2009 16:59:32 GMT -8
When the rail numbers hit 500,000 per pay, rail will be treated very differently. But that is a long way off... One day rail and bus will be equal. I agree. I always thought we don't even really have a rail system (just a few rail lines) until we get to that magical half million mark. We'll need the Purple Line extension to get there though. On a positive note, we should pass San Francisco for 2nd largest light rail network after Boston as soon as Expo to Crenshaw opens (maybe even with Eastside Gold). Another area where we really fall short is in Commuter Rail compared to other Metro areas. We have a huge network, but such spotty service our ridership is low. Hopefully, we can add some more service on our lines including late evening so people don't feel stranded and this number can really soar. I think that we'll have a real rail system when Expo opens to Santa Monica. We'll have lines that go North, East, South and finally West. Even with buses having more riders for the next 30+ years, that will be the tipping point in public perception where people will start thinking of Metro=trains instead of Metro=buses. Our commuter rail system is lacking in sooo many ways. Most importantly it's by far the least safe commuter system. Even taking away the two huge crashes with 40 fatalities it's still the leader by far. |
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Post by LAofAnaheim on May 16, 2009 10:16:51 GMT -8
Our commuter rail system is lacking in sooo many ways. Most importantly it's by far the least safe commuter system. Even taking away the two huge crashes with 40 fatalities it's still the leader by far. Besides adding more trains/hours, the Metrolink stops are moreso commuter stations. I've traveled Caltrain a lot and generally there's a lot more stations where you can walk to businesses/homes than you can from Metrolink. Here, it seems everybody wants massive amount of parking. We should make our stations a little more like Fullerton which actually is in its downtown district. |
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Post by bluelineshawn on May 16, 2009 11:43:39 GMT -8
Our commuter rail system is lacking in sooo many ways. Most importantly it's by far the least safe commuter system. Even taking away the two huge crashes with 40 fatalities it's still the leader by far. Besides adding more trains/hours, the Metrolink stops are moreso commuter stations. I've traveled Caltrain a lot and generally there's a lot more stations where you can walk to businesses/homes than you can from Metrolink. Here, it seems everybody wants massive amount of parking. We should make our stations a little more like Fullerton which actually is in its downtown district. That's why it's called commuter rail. It's not much different than the LIRR, for example. Most people outside the urban area drive to the station. And aside from commuter rail, look at WMATA and BART. They have massive amounts of people that drive to stations as well. |
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Post by masonite on May 16, 2009 13:18:53 GMT -8
Besides adding more trains/hours, the Metrolink stops are moreso commuter stations. I've traveled Caltrain a lot and generally there's a lot more stations where you can walk to businesses/homes than you can from Metrolink. Here, it seems everybody wants massive amount of parking. We should make our stations a little more like Fullerton which actually is in its downtown district. That's why it's called commuter rail. It's not much different than the LIRR, for example. Most people outside the urban area drive to the station. And aside from commuter rail, look at WMATA and BART. They have massive amounts of people that drive to stations as well. I have to agree with LA of Anaheim here. I understand we will have a lot of stations that are just surrounded by fields of parking. However, we don't have a big enough downtown to warrant all of our stations being like this. We need more people on Metrolink going to other destinations besides Downtown LA especially those just on the Metrolink system. This is especially important with additional service on some of these lines like Orange County. Otherwise we are leaving too much on the table. We have this huge 512 mile system that is not being utilized nearly enough. Chicago Metra is smaller in size yet has 7 times the ridership as an example. Granted they are more downtown centric city, but they have more around their stations than we do. I am hoping this can be addressed in the future with smarter development and more TOD. We'll see. |
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Post by masonite on May 17, 2009 10:17:34 GMT -8
I agree. I always thought we don't even really have a rail system (just a few rail lines) until we get to that magical half million mark. We'll need the Purple Line extension to get there though. On a positive note, we should pass San Francisco for 2nd largest light rail network after Boston as soon as Expo to Crenshaw opens (maybe even with Eastside Gold). Another area where we really fall short is in Commuter Rail compared to other Metro areas. We have a huge network, but such spotty service our ridership is low. Hopefully, we can add some more service on our lines including late evening so people don't feel stranded and this number can really soar. I think that we'll have a real rail system when Expo opens to Santa Monica. We'll have lines that go North, East, South and finally West. Even with buses having more riders for the next 30+ years, that will be the tipping point in public perception where people will start thinking of Metro=trains instead of Metro=buses. Our commuter rail system is lacking in sooo many ways. Most importantly it's by far the least safe commuter system. Even taking away the two huge crashes with 40 fatalities it's still the leader by far. I'd agree Expo to Santa Monica will be an important step, but I really can't say we'll have a functioning respectable rail system until we have the DTC and an airport connection as well as a subway that actually serves the major destinations on the Westside instead of the stub that is the current Purple Line. With Expo and Eastside Gold it is going to be painful not having a DTC. Expo doesn't really serve many key areas directly. Downtown Santa Monica and USC yes, but downtown Culver City is only a partial yes and it doesn't serve any other major dense areas like Westwood, Century City or Miracle Mile, which is where transit is really needed especially with a direct transfer to Metrolink at Union Station for all the commuters living out East. |
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Post by tonyw79sfv on May 17, 2009 16:10:32 GMT -8
The same can be said of the Orange Line vs. Ventura (Metro Rapid 750); the Orange Line, like Expo, exists due to legacy ROWs, but there is less attractions compared to Ventura Blvd or Wilshire Blvd (Metro Rapid 720, and in the future Purple Line). In fact, it's no coincidence after the NoHo Red Line extension opened, Ventura and Wilshire have our first Rapid bus lines (complete with station canopies). To really connect LA area attractions, we'd need to run subway lines on the same corridors as the currently established Rapid Lines; with the limitations of trying to appease everyone, this will not happen in full as we have spent three decades putting up a downtown to Hollywood line (Red Line) and an uncompleted Wilshire line (Purple Line). Our best bet to making our rail system of more use is to either build it near attractions or build attractions near it. Expo will at least hit downtown Santa Monica and Exposition Park, the Orange Line hits the Warner Center area and the two community colleges; but with developers like Caruso putting attractions (The Grove & Americana) away from Metro Rail (ironically, both are on Rapid 780), we'll not realize a good system and we'll still need buses to make that last mile connection.
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Post by bluelineshawn on May 17, 2009 17:21:06 GMT -8
masonite, we agree I think. I'm just saying that Expo will be the tipping point (ie greater that 50% there), not that we'll be all the way there.
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Post by masonite on May 17, 2009 20:26:33 GMT -8
masonite, we agree I think. I'm just saying that Expo will be the tipping point (ie greater that 50% there), not that we'll be all the way there. I agree. Expo will fill in the one major area that is missing from the MetroRail system, but like we talked about there are still big holes. However, I feel like we will never feel like we have a complete system. Hopefully, soon we feel like we have the grounds for a good basic system and are just making necessary additions to it, but we're not there yet. |
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