Post by bennyp81 on Jun 22, 2005 8:02:32 GMT -8
Ross
User ID: 8743893 Oct 19th 12:37 AM
One thing that this Bus Strike has done is that it has allowed the BRU to come out looking like the "Good Guys". Even the media seems to promote them as the voice of the people. And the BRU is lapping it up. Coming out with nice sound bites and a take no prisoner approach, as it lays all the blame on the MTA. This no doubt will carry over after the strike as the BRU will attempt to tie in the strike with the rail projects being proposed for the county. It will be an uphill battle for sure trying to convince people that the BRU doesn't represent all bus riders and doesn't have their best interest in mind.
Ken Ruben
User ID: 7859123 Oct 19th 3:01 AM
Hi Everyone:
I don't post within the various forums here very often, but I have to agree with Ross 100%.
He has said it all.
Further follow-up from anyone else?
"Ken" Ruben
Chris Ledermuller
User ID: 1718124 Oct 19th 8:55 AM
To anyone who thinks this, I have an interesting post on Kym Richards' message board (www.transit-insider.org) about the BRU and the strike.
The BRU is not going to go away all by itself. Do you want to wait until 2006 to see if the BRU is still relevant? Well, you could do something right now. As I suggested, actively discredit the BRU. Mann deserves it.
Chris Ledermuller
User ID: 1606604 Oct 19th 12:49 PM
Discredit the BRU for the good of transit
I heard the Bus Riders Union publicity stunt on the radio today.
The BRU, or as I now like to call them, Bolshies 4 Buses, said that the MTA deliberately caused this strike in order to shut down service and save money, which will be diverted to light rail.
Never mind that all news accounts accurately reported that the ATU walked away from the bargaining table before the strike even began, and real transit advocates know that the rank and file just parrot whatever Premier Mann and his Politburo tell them.
There's no better time than now to publicly discredit the Bus Riders Union. This position on the strike is just one round of ammo, but there are others that have been around for years.
With transit in public consciousness because of the Gold Line opening and the strike, I am sure people would enjoy the opportunity to see the BRU in an environment where Mann does not control his own press.
What it would take is an op-ed, or even a letter to the editor in LA Weekly or the more radical Change Links (media where the BRU have most of its sympathizers). Dress the BRU down.
The Op-Ed should not be rhetorical. It should be prosecutorial. The difference between the two is that a rhetorical piece (pointing out the flaws in the opponent's argument) uses ambiguity to challenge certainty. That's fine if the BRU and the real transit advocates would have a collegial debate. It won't happen.
A prosecutorial approach acknowledges the fact that the there are two opposing parties, and that there must be a clear winner and loser.
Whereas the rhetorical approach can only shed light and spread knowledge and does not really have a winner and loser, the prosecutorial approach has a clear objective in mind (i.e., can the district attorney obtain a conviction against the accused).
Here is the difference between the two approaches:
Rhetorical
"If you believe X to be true, then how come your behavior shows you to do action Y which is directly in opposition to your beliefs."
Put in something like abortions are wrong in X, and "But you're a doctor who has performed abortions and in fact advocates them for eugenics" in Y.
Prosecutorial
"You did X to Y with Z."
If you ever seen a criminal trial, you know how this goes. The prosecutors are certain about the who, the whom, the what, where, how and why. The prosecutor is not trying to show the accused the crime. The prosecutor is trying to persuade the jury.
Now why such a harsh approach to the BRU? Because the rhetorical approach is fine when the debates' participants have mutual respect for one another, and they are debating for the best idea.
This is fine within SoCaTA meetings. The BRU, on the other hand, has a binary mentality. It's us (BRU) versus them (anyone not meeting the BRU's standards), and it extends into all of its thinking. Only the BRU's ideas are right; everyone else's is wrong (complete certainty in both cases).
Now then. This piece is not to show the error of the BRU's ways, no matter how many. They won't acknowledge them. They'll just attack you. It is to show that the BRU does not have the authority to speak for the riders, and does not deserve the public's trust.
The BRU does not deserve trust because it will-fully spreads misinformation. The BRU does not check facts that it asserts, in which case it is ignorant and does not make a credible case for itself or the positions it takes.
This is a milder charge. The more serious charge is that the BRU does have facts and knowledge about transit, and yet still makes these statements despite knowing their falsity.
This is fraud.
The BRU has been making fraudulent statements to the public and its own members who believe that the BRU leadership is honest to them.
Examples, many as they are, include this press conference, "Want to go to Disneyland?" and telling their members that with enough agitation, the BRU will get a 50 cent fare, $20 monthly pass, no rail lines and beaucoup wages for union MTA workers and it is sustainable.
The problem is that the BRU does not educate its members or the public on the operational aspects of transit. The BRU believes that lawsuits and edicts alone will accomplish their goals.
The Soviet Union tried that with its centrally planned economy and it failed. Just like the Consent Decree is failing riders. The problem is not that MTA is stonewalling the goals of the decree, but that the decree is unsustainable.
MTA cannot control factors outside of its operations (traffic congestion, boarding delays, etc.) that cause standees, and just buying more buses will not reduce the number of standing passengers.
The BRU does not know operations (ignorance) or hides this fact from the public (fraud).
No other organization that presents itself this badly would be given any credibility. Would Consumers Union be taken seriously if it attacks every product that comes before it by saying that the goods are produced by evil capitalists to take away money from unsuspecting shoppers? No.
It employs a staff who researches laws that benefit consumers and takes products and puts it through rigorous laboratory testing. You could reasonably say that Consumers Union has credibility because it knows the mechanics of consumerism.
Considering the BRU's record of falsity, the BRU has no credibility. So, ladies and gentlemen of the jury, look at the organization with suspicion. Case closed.
This is the kind of thing I am talking about. I hope I was able to make a persuasive case to you. And it would be interesting to get the word out about Bolshies 4 Buses.
*****************
Write catransit@yahoo.com if you can help us.
Lawrence
User ID: 9913923 Oct 19th 3:05 PM
Los Angeles Daily News
Saturday October 18 2003
"At a news conference Saturday near Koreatown, members of the Bus Riders Union urged the MTA to end the transit strike. The advocacy group has long criticized the MTA for what it says is disproportionate transit spending geared to wealthy suburban commuters over of inner-city riders of color."
Advocacy group my foot. They are more like a radical group that goes to MTA meetings yelling and screaming. These BRU idiots really think that the MTA can end this current transit strike and get the trains and buses back in service by waving a magic wand? Wasn't the BRU responsible for the MTA not being able to raise fares for eight long years, just enough to put this transit agency further in the red?
Yes Chris, we must discredit this bunch of hypocritical radicals.
Jerard
User ID: 1069864 Oct 19th 3:16 PM
Aren't the BRU and Neil Silver good friends?
Because, I think the timing of the Strike and BRU rather suspicious.
I know of Neil Silver's need to get re-elected but I'm wondering if the BRU's outbursts are in Response to the upcoming Federal Decision of the Consent Decree and Silver also using the strike to help his Buddy Eric Mann stir some doubt to D.C.?
Just a thought.
Personally, I feel if they want to play hardball, give them what they want in the short term and then Lay them off immediately following the singing on the line. So ATU can't play the bully to the Transit dependant Public and MTA.
Bart Reed
User ID: 1606604 Oct 19th 7:17 PM
Jerard: WRONG! The BRU and Neil Silver have nothing to do with one another. Neil told me that he donated to BRU back in 1996, but they have not spoken since.
As Chris has explained above and from what I know from personal experience, Eric Mann and BRU don't have any ongoing relationships with ATU or UTU.
There is absolutely nothing suspicious about the ATU strike timing. Neil and the ATU applied for a 60 day cooling off period, not the MTA.
Neil Silver could have extended the cooling off period like the UTU Rail and Bus Operators did. But Neil is under pressure, as his health fund is on the brink of bankruptcy and he ran out of time to put more pressure on MTA.
He told me on Sept. 18 that he would settle the health issue by passing state legislation that Assemblymember Fabian Nunez carried this session.
One problem got in the way: Arnold on Oct. 7.
The Consent Decree decision has been out for review and comment by both MTA and the BRU. Both sides will respond to Special Master Donald Bliss and Bliss will issue a new decision that will require MTA to put more rush hour trips into service. BRU will ask for more and MTA less.
The BRU is responding in ways that it knows how:
TV and Radio theatrics. And when the non-beat reporters are filling in at the local papers, the BRU is getting some ink.
If I had 5 to 8 skilled guys helping Dennis, Mike and myself pressing the transit users point of view, you'd see Transit Coalition with a lot higher profile. But, we are all volunteers. And we don't have much budget.
Sending out faxes and talking on the cell phone
don't seem like much, but when the phone bill and the unbudgeted extra cell phone minutes come in, there is an extra $100 to $200 to cover. We can use even your small donations (or generous ones) to help us meet ends, if you don't have time to volunteer to pitch in to help us run the fight.
Transit Coalition has been approaching the radio and television stations to present our point of view. So far, we were on the Bill Handel show on KFI on Tuesday morning and on KFI news Tuesday night. Transit Coalition had our OpEd piece by A. Dennis Lytton in the Friday Daily News.
Jerard, you have little understanding of the issues. No one plays hardball with the ATU and comes out alive. At some point the strike will be settled and the mechanics will be part of the unified family once again. When there is a signed ATU/MTA agreement, no one could possibly lay off or replace a Union member except for legal cause.
If you want to play a part in the citizens and transit advocates putting organized pressure on both parties, I suggest you throw your contact information at us: CAtransit@yahoo.com and plan to attend our Brainstorming Session this Friday at Philippe the Original near Union Station.
Frankly, we need all the help we can get!
Þ--Þ--Þ
Jerard
User ID: 1069864 Oct 19th 11:54 PM
Oh yeah, the legal cause could be a simple petition by actual transit dependant riders that are inconvienced by the strike that can become a lawsuit, or laying off a Union employee because of Bad character,(Hey maybe I'm wrong, but crap at least I'm trying to think of something)
Actually I have a lot more understanding at what's at stake and at the issues at hand that is why I asked the question.
I mean if we don't outsmart or at least fight then they'll keep repeating this charade every 3 years, then the concept lines we think of and sending/handing out flyers for will be null and void because the public will grow tired of the foolishness and will not support any more funding to build any new lines/improvements because about every 2 to 3 years there will be service interruptions.
Right now, I am finishing my Architecture and Urban Planning degree here in Chicago, so that's part of the reason why I have been just a posted name on the screen and not a physical body you can see and conversate with directly. I too am also busy working 25 hours a week and going to School Full-Time, but I still get the word across to my family and friends in the LA area to write letters to the Times, the local councilmemebers and other elected officals in their area to voice their say and get the thing moving. I'm also trying to start up a couple of websites showing some ideas similar to www.metrosilverline.org
I've sent in my letters to Mayor Hahn and other officals before and during the strike asking them to put an end to this strike, as well as other transit related issues regarding the Green Line Extension.
I'll be in LA, December 12th, so use me when you can, I've sent my contact info via so drop me a reply on what you all will be Brainstorming.
Thanks.
PaulC
User ID: 8228423 Oct 20th 12:16 AM
Hey Jerard, which school do you go to in Chicago?
Paul
Jerard
User ID: 1069864 Oct 20th 12:20 AM
Illinois Institute of Technology
Jerard
User ID: 1069864 Oct 20th 12:21 AM
a.k.a to Art/Architecture Buffs as the "Houses that Mies built and now Rem Koolhaus is trying to destroy"
PaulC
User ID: 8228423 Oct 20th 12:28 AM
How's Chicago now? I havent been there in the longest. Is there still a lot of steet life? I mainly remember Michigan Ave, but how about now? still a lot of people walking along the streets like NYC? I've heard the CTA isnt doing that good of a job these days.
Paul
Bart Reed
User ID: 1606604 Oct 20th 12:54 AM
Jerard:
I wasn't attempting to be mean. I would be more than happy to bring you up to speed. I would be more than happy to talk with you over the phone and bring you up to speed. (free nationwide nights and weekends!) But we struggle as a non-profit to just get the basic needs taken care of.
Fighting a union or bringing a petition takes lots of financial backing. And lots of bodies organized to show political clout.
Any kind of legal petition or litigation is going to cost in the $100,000 + territory. Even with a ton of volunteers, it costs plenty to hire staff members to get things rolling. L.A. is a costly town and even volunteers have living overhead.
The sad part is that most of L.A. is still motorists and they just don't care about mass transit like we do. Tune in to John and Ken or Larry Elder and hear the bashing. No one calls in to defend transit at all. Even the English language newspapers have cut back on their coverage from that of the year 2000 strike.
There is a lot of uphill work to be accomplished.
We are brainstorming again this Friday, Oct. 24 at Philippe the Original.
You bet there is a ton of stuff we need to get done. The reality is that the users of transit:
the working poor and the choice riders have absolutely no say in the purchase of labor.
Labor wants every cent it can get and management wants to keep costs under control. Since we don't run transit at breakeven, we need ever increasing tax subsidies to retain existing service.
Many here and heavily at some of the other discussion boards don't understand basic transit
economics and how urban transit systems function.
For example, with the State and Federal Govt. not throwing in any Capital Funding, MTA will not be able to expand the rail network. And, if we put a 6-1/2 cent sales tax on the ballot, so L.A. County can save itself, some will fight the idea to the death, so we stand still.
In the Los Angeles market, it would take several years to replace the mechanics if the MTA would ever try to replace anyone. But than the 5,000 member Rail and Bus Operators Union would also refuse to work. To rehire and retrain 7,000 skilled workers would take years.
The Los Angeles Herald Examiner is a good example.
It took a skilled workforce to produce the paper. It took years to bring the paper back, but it was never more than 1/3 the original pre-strike size.
In the end, the replacement workers voted to go union again and the paper eventually died.
Overall, Los Angeles is a Labor strong city in certain elements and public transit is one with close to 100 years of organized labor. The elected officials would never allow any strike breaking to go on for any length of time.
With the strong management of MTA CEO Roger Snoble, the MTA executive team will learn that the future needs to be a cultural change with the workforce. And that will take years.
Þ--Þ--Þ
Jerard
User ID: 1069864 Oct 20th 1:15 AM
[to PaulC:]
Michigan Avenue is filled with Suburbanites on the Weekend but is dead of true Chicagoans on the Weekdays, mostly Tourists.
Also the Condo and Loft developments are out of control that's another reason Chicago feels dead during the Weekdays because of the $$$ pushing everyone away.(Warning of Excess loft/condo developments Downtown :-) )
The Northside along Clark, Halsted and Belmont Streets are alive 24/7, despite the Yuppies.
CTA will hike fares in January, at the same time giving some officials a quiet pension/fund packages. Also Mayor Daley and the CTA board are planning new O'Hare and Midway Express Rail lines as well as a Circle Line, info on the project can be found at this site:
www.chicago-l.org/plans/CircleLine.html
The plan will cost close to $1.1 Billion Dollars and will serve the heart of the Emerging Yuppieville (tons of new centers/facilities being built up along the route) as well as bring Suburbanites closer to Michigan Avenue via Transit and workers closer to Jobs.
Speaking of Strikes, the CTA transit operators performed a "quiet strike" by reducing Service on the Northside but not totally eliminating service altogether. This way the strike was kept hush-hush to the national media and the Bus Drivers got what they rightfully deserve, which ironically was more funding for Healthcare,(CTA mechanics and Operators are making Half of what LA is getting and their cost of living is about the same)
Jerard
User ID: 1069864 Oct 20th 1:26 AM
I was just suggesting the layoffs because the Drivers and Mechanics will realize they have a good thing and will wimper under the pressure because they know they can't work anywhere else even for the Municipal operators because of possible "blackballing".
In other words "Hustling the Muscle", put a firm nuse around the neck and make them realize if they fight it they choke and they won't survive because it's there only livelihood for a long period of time. So you won't be replacing tons of workers you could actually re-hire them back at a lower rate.
I understand the Politics and $$$ involve in it, but if we keep shying away from stuff like this then this monster will just grow bigger and stronger before there will be no more MTA or Public to devour. I mean if we could convince the NFL to try and get Expo Line Built and funded I think there a lot of organizations and Corporations willing to fight this cause.
My Math Teacher at Hamilton H.S. told me before I left for school:
"That the biggest risks you take are the one's you never take."
Just some final thoughts before I head to bed.
Good Night and God Bless.
Roberto
User ID: 1223124 Oct 20th 4:14 AM
The main reason the BRU gets so much press and attention is because they ALWAYS take the time publicly voice their opinion on all issues. Chris is right, in order to be more effective, we have to ALL take the time to write to the media and voice our opinions.
The BRU understands the power of the press, and they know that their crazy antics will result in big-time media coverage. The drums and bright jackets are not irrelevant oddities, in terms of publicity, they are a stroke of genius.
Just from my personal experience over the past year, I found out just how effective writing letters can be. Since so few people in L.A. actually take the time to do it, if you regularly put together well-written, logical essays, and send them off to the right places, you will eventually see big results.
I never would have believed it before, I thought taking the time to write a letter was a waste since the one person that read it would probably just throw it away or delte it. How wrong I was.
Chris Ledermuller
User ID: 1718124 Oct 20th 7:08 AM
If you want to know how the BRU manipulates the press, I talk about it briefly on another long post I wrote on Kym's message board (www.transit-insider.org).
I figured out how Eric Mann operates. It's long, and I wrote it in a way that was factual and did not resort to calling him names.
Once you figure out the way the BRU operates, use the information against them. It would have to change its tactics or dissolve. Let's see if Eric Mann is up to the challenge.
PaulC
User ID: 1745694 Oct 20th 2:16 PM
[to Jerard:]
So the housing prices are out of control huh. That sucks. You would still think that because of the Condos and lofts there would still be a lot of street life. Sad I guess. So whats so go about these other strees tat your talking about? never have been on them myself. I dont mind the Yuppies. Do you know if Loyola of Chicago is a good school?
Paul
User ID: 8743893 Oct 19th 12:37 AM
One thing that this Bus Strike has done is that it has allowed the BRU to come out looking like the "Good Guys". Even the media seems to promote them as the voice of the people. And the BRU is lapping it up. Coming out with nice sound bites and a take no prisoner approach, as it lays all the blame on the MTA. This no doubt will carry over after the strike as the BRU will attempt to tie in the strike with the rail projects being proposed for the county. It will be an uphill battle for sure trying to convince people that the BRU doesn't represent all bus riders and doesn't have their best interest in mind.
Ken Ruben
User ID: 7859123 Oct 19th 3:01 AM
Hi Everyone:
I don't post within the various forums here very often, but I have to agree with Ross 100%.
He has said it all.
Further follow-up from anyone else?
"Ken" Ruben
Chris Ledermuller
User ID: 1718124 Oct 19th 8:55 AM
To anyone who thinks this, I have an interesting post on Kym Richards' message board (www.transit-insider.org) about the BRU and the strike.
The BRU is not going to go away all by itself. Do you want to wait until 2006 to see if the BRU is still relevant? Well, you could do something right now. As I suggested, actively discredit the BRU. Mann deserves it.
Chris Ledermuller
User ID: 1606604 Oct 19th 12:49 PM
Discredit the BRU for the good of transit
I heard the Bus Riders Union publicity stunt on the radio today.
The BRU, or as I now like to call them, Bolshies 4 Buses, said that the MTA deliberately caused this strike in order to shut down service and save money, which will be diverted to light rail.
Never mind that all news accounts accurately reported that the ATU walked away from the bargaining table before the strike even began, and real transit advocates know that the rank and file just parrot whatever Premier Mann and his Politburo tell them.
There's no better time than now to publicly discredit the Bus Riders Union. This position on the strike is just one round of ammo, but there are others that have been around for years.
With transit in public consciousness because of the Gold Line opening and the strike, I am sure people would enjoy the opportunity to see the BRU in an environment where Mann does not control his own press.
What it would take is an op-ed, or even a letter to the editor in LA Weekly or the more radical Change Links (media where the BRU have most of its sympathizers). Dress the BRU down.
The Op-Ed should not be rhetorical. It should be prosecutorial. The difference between the two is that a rhetorical piece (pointing out the flaws in the opponent's argument) uses ambiguity to challenge certainty. That's fine if the BRU and the real transit advocates would have a collegial debate. It won't happen.
A prosecutorial approach acknowledges the fact that the there are two opposing parties, and that there must be a clear winner and loser.
Whereas the rhetorical approach can only shed light and spread knowledge and does not really have a winner and loser, the prosecutorial approach has a clear objective in mind (i.e., can the district attorney obtain a conviction against the accused).
Here is the difference between the two approaches:
Rhetorical
"If you believe X to be true, then how come your behavior shows you to do action Y which is directly in opposition to your beliefs."
Put in something like abortions are wrong in X, and "But you're a doctor who has performed abortions and in fact advocates them for eugenics" in Y.
Prosecutorial
"You did X to Y with Z."
If you ever seen a criminal trial, you know how this goes. The prosecutors are certain about the who, the whom, the what, where, how and why. The prosecutor is not trying to show the accused the crime. The prosecutor is trying to persuade the jury.
Now why such a harsh approach to the BRU? Because the rhetorical approach is fine when the debates' participants have mutual respect for one another, and they are debating for the best idea.
This is fine within SoCaTA meetings. The BRU, on the other hand, has a binary mentality. It's us (BRU) versus them (anyone not meeting the BRU's standards), and it extends into all of its thinking. Only the BRU's ideas are right; everyone else's is wrong (complete certainty in both cases).
Now then. This piece is not to show the error of the BRU's ways, no matter how many. They won't acknowledge them. They'll just attack you. It is to show that the BRU does not have the authority to speak for the riders, and does not deserve the public's trust.
The BRU does not deserve trust because it will-fully spreads misinformation. The BRU does not check facts that it asserts, in which case it is ignorant and does not make a credible case for itself or the positions it takes.
This is a milder charge. The more serious charge is that the BRU does have facts and knowledge about transit, and yet still makes these statements despite knowing their falsity.
This is fraud.
The BRU has been making fraudulent statements to the public and its own members who believe that the BRU leadership is honest to them.
Examples, many as they are, include this press conference, "Want to go to Disneyland?" and telling their members that with enough agitation, the BRU will get a 50 cent fare, $20 monthly pass, no rail lines and beaucoup wages for union MTA workers and it is sustainable.
The problem is that the BRU does not educate its members or the public on the operational aspects of transit. The BRU believes that lawsuits and edicts alone will accomplish their goals.
The Soviet Union tried that with its centrally planned economy and it failed. Just like the Consent Decree is failing riders. The problem is not that MTA is stonewalling the goals of the decree, but that the decree is unsustainable.
MTA cannot control factors outside of its operations (traffic congestion, boarding delays, etc.) that cause standees, and just buying more buses will not reduce the number of standing passengers.
The BRU does not know operations (ignorance) or hides this fact from the public (fraud).
No other organization that presents itself this badly would be given any credibility. Would Consumers Union be taken seriously if it attacks every product that comes before it by saying that the goods are produced by evil capitalists to take away money from unsuspecting shoppers? No.
It employs a staff who researches laws that benefit consumers and takes products and puts it through rigorous laboratory testing. You could reasonably say that Consumers Union has credibility because it knows the mechanics of consumerism.
Considering the BRU's record of falsity, the BRU has no credibility. So, ladies and gentlemen of the jury, look at the organization with suspicion. Case closed.
This is the kind of thing I am talking about. I hope I was able to make a persuasive case to you. And it would be interesting to get the word out about Bolshies 4 Buses.
*****************
Write catransit@yahoo.com if you can help us.
Lawrence
User ID: 9913923 Oct 19th 3:05 PM
Los Angeles Daily News
Saturday October 18 2003
"At a news conference Saturday near Koreatown, members of the Bus Riders Union urged the MTA to end the transit strike. The advocacy group has long criticized the MTA for what it says is disproportionate transit spending geared to wealthy suburban commuters over of inner-city riders of color."
Advocacy group my foot. They are more like a radical group that goes to MTA meetings yelling and screaming. These BRU idiots really think that the MTA can end this current transit strike and get the trains and buses back in service by waving a magic wand? Wasn't the BRU responsible for the MTA not being able to raise fares for eight long years, just enough to put this transit agency further in the red?
Yes Chris, we must discredit this bunch of hypocritical radicals.
Jerard
User ID: 1069864 Oct 19th 3:16 PM
Aren't the BRU and Neil Silver good friends?
Because, I think the timing of the Strike and BRU rather suspicious.
I know of Neil Silver's need to get re-elected but I'm wondering if the BRU's outbursts are in Response to the upcoming Federal Decision of the Consent Decree and Silver also using the strike to help his Buddy Eric Mann stir some doubt to D.C.?
Just a thought.
Personally, I feel if they want to play hardball, give them what they want in the short term and then Lay them off immediately following the singing on the line. So ATU can't play the bully to the Transit dependant Public and MTA.
Bart Reed
User ID: 1606604 Oct 19th 7:17 PM
Jerard: WRONG! The BRU and Neil Silver have nothing to do with one another. Neil told me that he donated to BRU back in 1996, but they have not spoken since.
As Chris has explained above and from what I know from personal experience, Eric Mann and BRU don't have any ongoing relationships with ATU or UTU.
There is absolutely nothing suspicious about the ATU strike timing. Neil and the ATU applied for a 60 day cooling off period, not the MTA.
Neil Silver could have extended the cooling off period like the UTU Rail and Bus Operators did. But Neil is under pressure, as his health fund is on the brink of bankruptcy and he ran out of time to put more pressure on MTA.
He told me on Sept. 18 that he would settle the health issue by passing state legislation that Assemblymember Fabian Nunez carried this session.
One problem got in the way: Arnold on Oct. 7.
The Consent Decree decision has been out for review and comment by both MTA and the BRU. Both sides will respond to Special Master Donald Bliss and Bliss will issue a new decision that will require MTA to put more rush hour trips into service. BRU will ask for more and MTA less.
The BRU is responding in ways that it knows how:
TV and Radio theatrics. And when the non-beat reporters are filling in at the local papers, the BRU is getting some ink.
If I had 5 to 8 skilled guys helping Dennis, Mike and myself pressing the transit users point of view, you'd see Transit Coalition with a lot higher profile. But, we are all volunteers. And we don't have much budget.
Sending out faxes and talking on the cell phone
don't seem like much, but when the phone bill and the unbudgeted extra cell phone minutes come in, there is an extra $100 to $200 to cover. We can use even your small donations (or generous ones) to help us meet ends, if you don't have time to volunteer to pitch in to help us run the fight.
Transit Coalition has been approaching the radio and television stations to present our point of view. So far, we were on the Bill Handel show on KFI on Tuesday morning and on KFI news Tuesday night. Transit Coalition had our OpEd piece by A. Dennis Lytton in the Friday Daily News.
Jerard, you have little understanding of the issues. No one plays hardball with the ATU and comes out alive. At some point the strike will be settled and the mechanics will be part of the unified family once again. When there is a signed ATU/MTA agreement, no one could possibly lay off or replace a Union member except for legal cause.
If you want to play a part in the citizens and transit advocates putting organized pressure on both parties, I suggest you throw your contact information at us: CAtransit@yahoo.com and plan to attend our Brainstorming Session this Friday at Philippe the Original near Union Station.
Frankly, we need all the help we can get!
Þ--Þ--Þ
Jerard
User ID: 1069864 Oct 19th 11:54 PM
Jerard, you have little understanding of the issues. No one plays hardball with the ATU and comes out alive. At some point the strike will be settled and the mechanics will be part of the unified family once again. When there is a signed ATU/MTA agreement, no one could possibly lay off or replace a Union member except for legal cause...
Oh yeah, the legal cause could be a simple petition by actual transit dependant riders that are inconvienced by the strike that can become a lawsuit, or laying off a Union employee because of Bad character,(Hey maybe I'm wrong, but crap at least I'm trying to think of something)
Actually I have a lot more understanding at what's at stake and at the issues at hand that is why I asked the question.
I mean if we don't outsmart or at least fight then they'll keep repeating this charade every 3 years, then the concept lines we think of and sending/handing out flyers for will be null and void because the public will grow tired of the foolishness and will not support any more funding to build any new lines/improvements because about every 2 to 3 years there will be service interruptions.
Right now, I am finishing my Architecture and Urban Planning degree here in Chicago, so that's part of the reason why I have been just a posted name on the screen and not a physical body you can see and conversate with directly. I too am also busy working 25 hours a week and going to School Full-Time, but I still get the word across to my family and friends in the LA area to write letters to the Times, the local councilmemebers and other elected officals in their area to voice their say and get the thing moving. I'm also trying to start up a couple of websites showing some ideas similar to www.metrosilverline.org
I've sent in my letters to Mayor Hahn and other officals before and during the strike asking them to put an end to this strike, as well as other transit related issues regarding the Green Line Extension.
I'll be in LA, December 12th, so use me when you can, I've sent my contact info via so drop me a reply on what you all will be Brainstorming.
Thanks.
PaulC
User ID: 8228423 Oct 20th 12:16 AM
Hey Jerard, which school do you go to in Chicago?
Paul
Jerard
User ID: 1069864 Oct 20th 12:20 AM
Illinois Institute of Technology
Jerard
User ID: 1069864 Oct 20th 12:21 AM
a.k.a to Art/Architecture Buffs as the "Houses that Mies built and now Rem Koolhaus is trying to destroy"
PaulC
User ID: 8228423 Oct 20th 12:28 AM
How's Chicago now? I havent been there in the longest. Is there still a lot of steet life? I mainly remember Michigan Ave, but how about now? still a lot of people walking along the streets like NYC? I've heard the CTA isnt doing that good of a job these days.
Paul
Bart Reed
User ID: 1606604 Oct 20th 12:54 AM
Jerard:
I wasn't attempting to be mean. I would be more than happy to bring you up to speed. I would be more than happy to talk with you over the phone and bring you up to speed. (free nationwide nights and weekends!) But we struggle as a non-profit to just get the basic needs taken care of.
Fighting a union or bringing a petition takes lots of financial backing. And lots of bodies organized to show political clout.
Any kind of legal petition or litigation is going to cost in the $100,000 + territory. Even with a ton of volunteers, it costs plenty to hire staff members to get things rolling. L.A. is a costly town and even volunteers have living overhead.
The sad part is that most of L.A. is still motorists and they just don't care about mass transit like we do. Tune in to John and Ken or Larry Elder and hear the bashing. No one calls in to defend transit at all. Even the English language newspapers have cut back on their coverage from that of the year 2000 strike.
There is a lot of uphill work to be accomplished.
We are brainstorming again this Friday, Oct. 24 at Philippe the Original.
You bet there is a ton of stuff we need to get done. The reality is that the users of transit:
the working poor and the choice riders have absolutely no say in the purchase of labor.
Labor wants every cent it can get and management wants to keep costs under control. Since we don't run transit at breakeven, we need ever increasing tax subsidies to retain existing service.
Many here and heavily at some of the other discussion boards don't understand basic transit
economics and how urban transit systems function.
For example, with the State and Federal Govt. not throwing in any Capital Funding, MTA will not be able to expand the rail network. And, if we put a 6-1/2 cent sales tax on the ballot, so L.A. County can save itself, some will fight the idea to the death, so we stand still.
In the Los Angeles market, it would take several years to replace the mechanics if the MTA would ever try to replace anyone. But than the 5,000 member Rail and Bus Operators Union would also refuse to work. To rehire and retrain 7,000 skilled workers would take years.
The Los Angeles Herald Examiner is a good example.
It took a skilled workforce to produce the paper. It took years to bring the paper back, but it was never more than 1/3 the original pre-strike size.
In the end, the replacement workers voted to go union again and the paper eventually died.
Overall, Los Angeles is a Labor strong city in certain elements and public transit is one with close to 100 years of organized labor. The elected officials would never allow any strike breaking to go on for any length of time.
With the strong management of MTA CEO Roger Snoble, the MTA executive team will learn that the future needs to be a cultural change with the workforce. And that will take years.
Þ--Þ--Þ
Jerard
User ID: 1069864 Oct 20th 1:15 AM
[to PaulC:]
Michigan Avenue is filled with Suburbanites on the Weekend but is dead of true Chicagoans on the Weekdays, mostly Tourists.
Also the Condo and Loft developments are out of control that's another reason Chicago feels dead during the Weekdays because of the $$$ pushing everyone away.(Warning of Excess loft/condo developments Downtown :-) )
The Northside along Clark, Halsted and Belmont Streets are alive 24/7, despite the Yuppies.
CTA will hike fares in January, at the same time giving some officials a quiet pension/fund packages. Also Mayor Daley and the CTA board are planning new O'Hare and Midway Express Rail lines as well as a Circle Line, info on the project can be found at this site:
www.chicago-l.org/plans/CircleLine.html
The plan will cost close to $1.1 Billion Dollars and will serve the heart of the Emerging Yuppieville (tons of new centers/facilities being built up along the route) as well as bring Suburbanites closer to Michigan Avenue via Transit and workers closer to Jobs.
Speaking of Strikes, the CTA transit operators performed a "quiet strike" by reducing Service on the Northside but not totally eliminating service altogether. This way the strike was kept hush-hush to the national media and the Bus Drivers got what they rightfully deserve, which ironically was more funding for Healthcare,(CTA mechanics and Operators are making Half of what LA is getting and their cost of living is about the same)
Jerard
User ID: 1069864 Oct 20th 1:26 AM
In the Los Angeles market, it would take several years to replace the mechanics if the MTA would ever try to replace anyone. But than the 5,000 member Rail and Bus Operators Union would also refuse to work. To rehire and retrain 7,000 skilled workers would take years.
I was just suggesting the layoffs because the Drivers and Mechanics will realize they have a good thing and will wimper under the pressure because they know they can't work anywhere else even for the Municipal operators because of possible "blackballing".
In other words "Hustling the Muscle", put a firm nuse around the neck and make them realize if they fight it they choke and they won't survive because it's there only livelihood for a long period of time. So you won't be replacing tons of workers you could actually re-hire them back at a lower rate.
I understand the Politics and $$$ involve in it, but if we keep shying away from stuff like this then this monster will just grow bigger and stronger before there will be no more MTA or Public to devour. I mean if we could convince the NFL to try and get Expo Line Built and funded I think there a lot of organizations and Corporations willing to fight this cause.
My Math Teacher at Hamilton H.S. told me before I left for school:
"That the biggest risks you take are the one's you never take."
Just some final thoughts before I head to bed.
Good Night and God Bless.
Roberto
User ID: 1223124 Oct 20th 4:14 AM
The main reason the BRU gets so much press and attention is because they ALWAYS take the time publicly voice their opinion on all issues. Chris is right, in order to be more effective, we have to ALL take the time to write to the media and voice our opinions.
The BRU understands the power of the press, and they know that their crazy antics will result in big-time media coverage. The drums and bright jackets are not irrelevant oddities, in terms of publicity, they are a stroke of genius.
Just from my personal experience over the past year, I found out just how effective writing letters can be. Since so few people in L.A. actually take the time to do it, if you regularly put together well-written, logical essays, and send them off to the right places, you will eventually see big results.
I never would have believed it before, I thought taking the time to write a letter was a waste since the one person that read it would probably just throw it away or delte it. How wrong I was.
Chris Ledermuller
User ID: 1718124 Oct 20th 7:08 AM
If you want to know how the BRU manipulates the press, I talk about it briefly on another long post I wrote on Kym's message board (www.transit-insider.org).
I figured out how Eric Mann operates. It's long, and I wrote it in a way that was factual and did not resort to calling him names.
Once you figure out the way the BRU operates, use the information against them. It would have to change its tactics or dissolve. Let's see if Eric Mann is up to the challenge.
PaulC
User ID: 1745694 Oct 20th 2:16 PM
[to Jerard:]
So the housing prices are out of control huh. That sucks. You would still think that because of the Condos and lofts there would still be a lot of street life. Sad I guess. So whats so go about these other strees tat your talking about? never have been on them myself. I dont mind the Yuppies. Do you know if Loyola of Chicago is a good school?
Paul