so what do you do now?

[jejozwik]

take a look at the comments on this page.

im at a loss at this point, and im outnumbered

[spokker]

It's the same crowd that will buy SUVs now that gas prices are going down a little bit. Never mind that the days of cheap gas are over.

You won't get anywhere with them.

[nickv]

There's one thing in online newspaper "comments" (not to be confused with letters to the editor) I see that is common: A bunch of complaining, finger-pointing and criticizing...So you're not alone. Of course when something does go wrong, I think one of the best ways to deal with it is to do something about it for the good of others and the community..., even if its just writing a letter or talking with the manager of the shift.

[jejozwik]

ok, this one is just too amazing not to share with you guys

People actually do use Ontario airport. It's one of the most efficient airports in all of California, and it's chosen by both Federal Express and UPS as an air entry point for this very reason.

California's freeways are remarkable for the efficient transportation that they are. Of course, they do get crowded during peak times, but even the most optimistic rapid transit options do not compete with the total volume of traffic moved by even the simplest 8 lane freeway.

It's very popular to malign the freeways in LA, but they really are masterpieces of design. For one, they require far less actual real estate space than the equivalent rail line requires for the same volume of passengers. Subways can't be used for commercial shipping, and the total end to end time for transit is still less for cars than it is for public transit with its inefficient transfer points. Transfer points increase delays by at least 30% in typical large city setups.

The Subway to the Sea is a lot like carbon sequestration, or planting a tree. It makes you feel good, and you really think it's doing the right thing, but economically it is a failed concept. Modern transportation is individualized - the freeways need to be made just slightly larger, and we need to encourage more avenues for individual transport, such as flying cars.

how do people like this exist?

[James Fujita]

I'm actually glad to see transit fans reading messages like these, because although they may be extremely misguided and misinformed if not entirely off-the-wall and "out of touch with reality", they do serve a useful purpose, which is: they shock us out of our complacency.

the transit coalition message board is a great place for like-minded transit lovers to discuss policy and plan strategies, as well as propose great new rail lines that desperately need to be built, but there is an insular "ivory tower" aspect to it.

the sad reality of it is that not everyone supports mass transit, some people are in denial of the $4.50 gas, some people are addicted to their cars and SUVs, some people are in denial of traffic and smog. and some people may be completely unaware of how uninformed they actually are.

then, there are the anti-tax folks, the people who look at the price tag first, the ones who "know the cost of everything but the value of nothing"

some folks are beyond our reach: they probably played with Matchbox cars as kids, had the hottest hot rod as teens and they've never been to San Francisco or Tokyo or even to San Diego and taken the subways and trolleys of the world. the bus is what their maid rides because "she has to", transit is something to be "forced" into.

there are still millions of others we can reach: the business traveler who took the train in London or Paris, the tired commuter who wants a solution — any solution, the environmentalist who hates smog, the senior who remembers the Red Cars. maybe they aren't on our side, but they can be reached.

but keep reading the caveman opinions. they remind us of how big of a hill we have to climb, and they provide us with plenty of myths and misconceptions to counteract.

[erict]

I don't see stupidity as a good thing at all. I think it is ignorance fueled by a society addicted to gasoline and cars. Just look how many car commercials are on a regular TV show. Have you ever see a mass transit commercial? Obviously everyone is not going to love mass transit, but I think most people see the need for a change.

[jejozwik]

ive only ever seen one, its for madrid and its awesome

www.peliculasponder.com/2004/content/directors/gi_01.htm

[nickv]

I doubt the writer will see this response, but I don't think that his/her arguments are sound. If anybody's looking for answers, here's my view:

California's freeways are remarkable for the efficient transportation that they are. Of course, they do get crowded during peak times, but even the most optimistic rapid transit options do not compete with the total volume of traffic moved by even the simplest 8 lane freeway.

1. Try taking a drive from the South Coast Plaza area into Lake Elsinore during the Friday afternoon rush hour via SR-91. The SR-55, 91 and I-15 are at least 8 lanes wide each, yet even with the 91 Express Toll Lanes, a one way trip can last up to 2 to 2 1/2 hours. That's because the 91 is a parking lot through Santa Ana Canyon from 2PM to about 8PM on Fridays.

A 3-seat ride via mass transit is just less than 2 hours, end-to-end; that's with two transfers. Both RTA and Metrolink are reliable with OTP.

Ride via Mass Transit:
OCTA 464: Leave South Coast Plaza at 3:37PM,
arrive at Santa Ana Depot at 4:04PM
(about 15 minutes before the train departs)

METROLINK IEOC: Leave at 4:22PM,
arrive at North Main Corona at 5:00PM.

RTA 206: Leaves five minutes after train arrives (about 5:05PM).
Arrives at Lake Elsinore Park & Ride at 5:35PM.

2. Watch this video. The high speed choo-choo can travel faster than 65 MPH:



3. Let's talk about costs and stress. Take for example a Christmas shopping trip to the LA area. Try to match a round trip $18.25 Metrolink Weekends ticket (from Oceanside TC to LAUS with the EZ-Pass) to a car trip from Oceanside to LA. The LA destinations are Broadway Ave, the food court near 7th st Metro Station, the gift shop at the LA Cathedral, the Kodak Theater Mall, and Little Tokyo. It can't be done; just parking at 3-4 spots alone would cost around $20.00.

On the way back, try taking a nap or reading a book while behind the wheel.

It's very popular to malign the freeways in LA, but they really are masterpieces of design. For one, they require far less actual real estate space than the equivalent rail line requires for the same volume of passengers.

Ummm... a Metro Red/Purple Line alignment is about 1/2 the width of narrow 6 lane SR-110 through South Pasadena. A triple-track regional rail alignment is about 1/2 the width of an 8 lane freeway. Just look at a satellite map.

Subways can't be used for commercial shipping, and the total end to end time for transit is still less for cars than it is for public transit with its inefficient transfer points. Transfer points increase delays by at least 30% in typical large city setups.

Well, one of the things the TTC would support are timed transfers. OCTA and Metrolink have good system where the shuttles wait for their connecting trains to show up. The same goes for Amtrak buses and would probably hold true for CA HSR.

I do understand that there are shopping centers out there that are so car-centric that a pedestrian would have to cross over gardens and parking lots to access the stores, making commercial shopping difficult for transit riders. However, that is something that can be fixed. Part of that is called transit-oriented development or smarth growth.

The Subway to the Sea is a lot like carbon sequestration, or planting a tree. It makes you feel good, and you really think it's doing the right thing, but economically it is a failed concept. Modern transportation is individualized - the freeways need to be made just slightly larger, and we need to encourage more avenues for individual transport, such as flying cars.

Take a ride on Line 720 (chances are the bus will be SRO) and observe both the pedestrian and car traffic...and the 720 is not a "little old" bus route that runs every hour. The 720 uses state of the art articulated buses that run so fequently that all one has to do is show up at a Line 720 bus stop and look at a real-time sign indicating when the next bus will show up.