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Post by carter on Apr 13, 2011 13:27:29 GMT -8
I'd love to hear someone try to mandate 5 week of "pre-revenue" testing on a new highway, after 4 months of other testing, of course. Well they did film Speed on the 105 before it opened ;D |
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Post by Gokhan on Apr 13, 2011 14:36:31 GMT -8
Railroads and highways are completely different things. A highway is basically a graded and paved surface. Railroads have dozens of electrical and mechanical subsystems and they have to be carefully tested before they can be used.
Also, even if the highways themselves aren't tested, cars go under extensive testing for months before a manufacturer can start selling a particular model line.
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Post by bobdavis on Apr 13, 2011 16:35:25 GMT -8
And railroads, especially rail transit systems, have become more complex over the years, mostly to cut down on the number of people required to run them. Back 100 years ago, a typical streetcar had a type-K controller and straight-air brakes. There was a conductor to take fares, make change, answer questions and change track switches in places where there wasn't an on-duty switchman (or mind the car while the motorman changed the route). No need for ticket-vending machines or elaborate signalling systems. Consider the cars San Francisco Muni started with almost a hundred years ago. They were so simple even a politician (usually the mayor) could run them on ceremonial occasions.
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Post by matthewb on Apr 14, 2011 2:14:13 GMT -8
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Post by crzwdjk on Apr 14, 2011 10:13:32 GMT -8
Ah, so the five weeks is a federal requirement. It's still ridiculous, at least in this case. I think once you've done the systems tests, it's mostly a matter of training the operators and testing the timetable. A five week period makes sense for a city's first line, with brand new trains, operators who haven't driven trains before (due to lack of same, or a line to drive them on), and of course a brand new line. Here, operators can get their basic training on the same exact type of trains on a different line, and Metro can test any new trains on old lines. The only operator training needed would be route familiarization, which shouldn't take that long, and a couple weeks of testing ought to shake out any remaining system integration issues or problems with the timetable. Besides, I don't think passengers are going to be happy that for over a month, half the trains at 7th/Metro and Pico are going to be empty.
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Post by rajacobs on Apr 14, 2011 10:18:30 GMT -8
The requirement for 5 weeks of testing--especially non-revenue testing-- brought to mind the recent comments regarding the Exposition and Rodeo split that lacks crossing arms.
5 weeks ensures a break-in periond for LA drivers to get used to the train without risking on-board commuters!
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Post by Gokhan on Apr 14, 2011 11:59:38 GMT -8
Regarding Exposition/Rodeo, I noticed that there is an LED "Train" signal there that should alert even the most oblivious driver to an approaching train.
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Post by Gokhan on Apr 14, 2011 12:13:21 GMT -8
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Post by theconstantg on Apr 14, 2011 12:21:29 GMT -8
Awesome photos, Gokhan! Those look great!
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Post by rubbertoe on Apr 14, 2011 12:46:37 GMT -8
Gokhan,
Very cool! I have darkened up my Expo ridership color scheme to match the new Metro signage colors.
RT
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Post by metrocenter on Apr 14, 2011 13:03:48 GMT -8
It looks great! Pantone 2995. My only complaint: the silver/gray/white lettering is a little hard to read on that blue. I wish they had included black outline or shadowing on the letters. But that's a tiny complaint. That color really shows up well on the signposts. |
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K 22
Full Member
Posts: 117
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Post by K 22 on Apr 14, 2011 17:19:46 GMT -8
So it's simply "Crenshaw" as opposed to "Expo/Crenshaw"? Surprised by that a little.
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Post by jamesinclair on Apr 14, 2011 17:22:00 GMT -8
I agree that the letters should have a black outline. Id like to see these in person, the first pics look blue, but picture 4 actually looks "aqua".
And to the prior conversation, yes, rail is more complicated, hence the 3 months of electrical/clearance testing. It's the prerevenue testing that doesnt make sense.
Any operator that is not an idiot can figure out where to stop the train after a couple of runs down the line. 2 weeks of pre-revenue testing should be more than enough. Especially since we're talking about open platforms, and not lining up the train doors with platform doors.
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Post by Quixote on Apr 14, 2011 19:21:24 GMT -8
So it's simply "Crenshaw" as opposed to "Expo/Crenshaw"? Surprised by that a little. Shortening it to "Expo" wouldn't be proper. "Exposition" is too long. |
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Post by tonyw79sfv on Apr 14, 2011 20:54:52 GMT -8
Project map still shows "Expo/Crenshaw". I'm curious to see the pylon for Expo/Vermont, as "Vermont" is already taken by the Green Line. Same with Expo/Sepulveda (for phase 2), where "Sepulveda" is taken by the Orange Line.
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Post by Gokhan on Apr 14, 2011 21:10:28 GMT -8
So it's simply "Crenshaw" as opposed to "Expo/Crenshaw"? Surprised by that a little.  |
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Post by roadtrainer on Apr 14, 2011 21:30:06 GMT -8
 let us just be happy that the testing is being done", and to have a well oiled machine started and running well. I would hate to have a system that is being shut down constanly and be reworked to make the train run sufficiently. Heck I want to ride the train right a way but I'm going to have to wait and I want it all certified, so I won't have to listen to NFSR and No- Goodman saying "See I told you Sincerely the Roadtrainer 
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Post by carter on Apr 14, 2011 21:39:16 GMT -8
Project map still shows "Expo/Crenshaw". I'm curious to see the pylon for Expo/Vermont, as "Vermont" is already taken by the Green Line. Same with Expo/Sepulveda (for phase 2), where "Sepulveda" is taken by the Orange Line. There's also Vermont/Sunset, Vermont/Santa Monica, Vermont/Beverly, and Vermont/Wilshire on the Red/Purple Line. And it looks like they're marked as such on the sign-posts.   Crenshaw also has an stop on the Green Line.  My quick thought: I don't think it's that confusing to have stations shortened to just the name of the cross-street. The long form name will always be known as, say, "the Crenshaw Green Line stop" or "the Vermont Expo Line stop." |
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Post by tobias087 on Apr 14, 2011 22:17:00 GMT -8
I'm inclined to agree. "Crenshaw" and "The Expo Line" is enough information to determine a unique location, no matter what other rail lines get built.
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Post by jamesinclair on Apr 14, 2011 22:55:07 GMT -8
A better idea would be to create unique names for each station so it wouldnt be an issue at all.
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Post by matthewb on Apr 14, 2011 23:22:03 GMT -8
New York has multiple stops with the same name. There are 4 different 125th St. stations, for example.
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Post by Gokhan on Apr 15, 2011 7:36:35 GMT -8
It looks like the name is no longer Venice/Robertson but Culver City for the Culver Junction Station. |
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Post by metrocenter on Apr 15, 2011 8:16:56 GMT -8
It looks like the name is no longer Venice/Robertson but Culver City for the Culver Junction Station. Expo status reports are more often referring to the station more and more as "Culver City". But not consistently: they still call it "Venice/Robertson" here. In fact the interactive map on the buildexpo website shows "Venice/Robertson", but when you mouse-over that station, it says "Culver City". LOL Anyway, it does look like "Culver City" is the new name. It seems much more official now that it's on the main map. |
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Post by metrocenter on Apr 15, 2011 8:24:52 GMT -8
Project map still shows "Expo/Crenshaw". I'm curious to see the pylon for Expo/Vermont, as "Vermont" is already taken by the Green Line. Same with Expo/Sepulveda (for phase 2), where "Sepulveda" is taken by the Orange Line. There's also Vermont/Sunset, Vermont/Santa Monica, Vermont/Beverly, and Vermont/Wilshire on the Red/Purple Line. And it looks like they're marked as such on the sign-posts. Crenshaw also has an stop on the Green Line. My quick thought: I don't think it's that confusing to have stations shortened to just the name of the cross-street. The long form name will always be known as, say, "the Crenshaw Green Line stop" or "the Vermont Expo Line stop." Many stations have both a simple name and a longer, more qualified name. The shorter name "Crenshaw" is fine if you're riding the Expo Line, since there really is no confusion with that name (only one Crenshaw station on the Expo Line). But for internal operations, where stations have to be uniquely identified, the station must be referred to as "Crenshaw/Expo", to avoid confusion with the Green Line "Crenshaw" station. The "Vermont" stations are tricky, because you have "Vermont/Wilshire" (which has to be named that, since both of them are very major streets). If you're going to have "Vermont/Wilshire", then you have to have "Vermont/Beverly", for consistency. Ultimately, when the Crenshaw Line opens, Metro will have to post "Crenshaw/Expo" at that station, since there will be many Crenshaw stations all on the same line. |
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Post by tobias087 on Apr 15, 2011 10:35:09 GMT -8
Managed to drive by the Expo Line last night, and it looks like the station pylons are also in place at the Western Station.
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Post by Gokhan on Apr 15, 2011 10:56:32 GMT -8
Here come close-ups of the Expo Line's aqua station pylons. The color choice is great; although, I wonder how easily distinguishable they are from the Blue Line pylons. Using "Crenshaw" instead of "Expo/Crenshaw" was the right way to go because since the pylons are already color-coded, "Expo/Crenshaw" would be like "Expo Expo/Crenshaw," hence redundant. White-translucent-plastic letters are reasonably legible and it looks like they will be lighted at night. West pylon:   East pylon:  East (westbound) split platform:  |
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Post by bzcat on Apr 15, 2011 14:08:01 GMT -8
"Crenshaw" in Expo color is sufficient (in fact my preferred) signage for local identification. Local signage is there so people can find the station. It doesn't need the full name (e.g. "Exposition/Crenshaw").
Obviously, on the map with many other rail lines, you probably need to label it with full name, especially when the Crenshaw line opens.
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Post by jeisenbe on Apr 17, 2011 18:50:54 GMT -8
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Post by spokker on Apr 17, 2011 20:55:58 GMT -8
Hey, look who has street-running light rail with no barriers www.westcoaster.net/images/updates/041910/041910-dca004-sm.jpgAnd Disney is a company afraid of a litigious public. How this got approved, I will never know! The catenary wire isn't strung up yet, but it will be a scaled down replica of the Pacific Electric Red Cars. Pacific Electric has moved into theme parks, while modern light rail has moved into the PE right of way. |
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Post by bobdavis on Apr 17, 2011 21:13:29 GMT -8
Disneyland has had horse-powered streetcars running down Main Street since the 1950's. I would guess that the "tribute" Red Cars won't move much faster.
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let us just be happy that the testing is being done", and to have a well oiled machine started and running well. I would hate to have a system that is being shut down constanly and be reworked to make the train run sufficiently.
