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Post by metrocenter on May 17, 2011 10:54:37 GMT -8
Mr. Hawthorne might want to consider the following:
(1) Construction is not yet finished, it will look much better when it's done.
(2) Expo Park is also tore up, in front of the Natural History Museum, and this of course contributes to the division between it and the school.
(3) USC has been somewhat disconnected from its surroundings, due to the numerous walls and fences, so it's not fair to lay all the blame on Expo.
(4) The black fences were requested for safety reasons, there's no way around them, so what's the point in whining about them?
I anticipate that USC and Expo Park will adapt to the Expo Line over the next few years, improving their respective entrances and creating better connections to the stations.
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Post by jamesinclair on May 17, 2011 12:24:22 GMT -8
(4) The black fences were requested for safety reasons, there's no way around them, so what's the point in whining about them? . Fallacy. "The TSA was requested for safety reasons, there's no way around them, so what's the point in whining about them? " See how thats not right?
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Post by metrocenter on May 17, 2011 12:41:41 GMT -8
(4) The black fences were requested for safety reasons, there's no way around them, so what's the point in whining about them? . Fallacy. "The TSA was requested for safety reasons, there's no way around them, so what's the point in whining about them? " See how thats not right? I don't see the fallacy. They have been installed already, and they are not likely to be removed. So what good is it going to do to bemoan their existence, from a practical standpoint? If you want a meaty socio-political statement in urban design, Irvine's the place to go. The entire city's design is intended to discourage walking and gathering. USC is an even closer example. It is turned inward, with walls and fences keeping out "the rabble". The fences along Exposition are not onerous symbols of authoritarianism. They are just fences, meant to keep stray pedestrians off the tracks.
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Post by James Fujita on May 17, 2011 13:39:57 GMT -8
Everything is relative.
I may not agree with every tactic that the TSA has employed, but I do believe that a degree of security is needed at our airports, and yes even at train stations. These measures do not have to be onerous, and they should not hamper the daily flow of transit, but they do need to be enough to deter the crazies who are still out there.
On the scale of reckless abandon vs. authoritarian control, a fence does not rank very high IMHO.
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Post by bobdavis on May 17, 2011 13:50:31 GMT -8
It's the nature of critics to bemoan things, whether anything can or should be done about them is beside the point. I think of pop music critics who belittle some artists because their particular style of music isn't in keeping with said critic's ideas, but who can sell out large venues because "real people" like their songs. Likewise, architecture critics may rave over some new building because some famous architect designed it, while a "normal person" might look at the structure and say, "That's not a thing of beauty. It's a @#$% eyesore! I wouldn't hire that guy to design a tool shed!" Getting back to railway design: It is probably true that many of us on this board are just delighted to see any rail construction in Southern California, and are not too concerned about the aesthetic elements of these projects.
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Post by spokker on May 17, 2011 17:32:36 GMT -8
From the Hawthorne Article:
And the street doesn't?
To me, a street is an unpredictable barrier. A rail line is a predictable barrier that, as long as you follow safety precautions, you'll be able to cross safely.
With cars in the equation, even if you use the crosswalk, only cross on the walk signal and look both ways, you are very much at risk while crossing a street.
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Post by jamesinclair on May 17, 2011 18:18:21 GMT -8
Fallacy. "The TSA was requested for safety reasons, there's no way around them, so what's the point in whining about them? " See how thats not right? I don't see the fallacy. They have been installed already, and they are not likely to be removed. So what good is it going to do to bemoan their existence, from a practical standpoint? If you want a meaty socio-political statement in urban design, Irvine's the place to go. The entire city's design is intended to discourage walking and gathering. USC is an even closer example. It is turned inward, with walls and fences keeping out "the rabble". The fences along Exposition are not onerous symbols of authoritarianism. They are just fences, meant to keep stray pedestrians off the tracks. There are many solutions. Adding more legal crossing points, for one, is quite easy. Another is completely removing the fence. If roads with 50mph speed limits dont have fences between the sidewalk and the traffic, then why should a slower rail line? We're talking about light rail here, not HSR (which absolutely should be fenced). And yes, I agree that USC is not walking or bike friendly...even though thats what all the students do. They're expected to make a car materialize when they step off campus. And recent changes in the name of pedestrian safety have only made things work (the two diagonal crossings do everything they can to screw over the pedestrian). My main complain with the fencing in the area is that the main crossing does NOT line up with the USC corridor NOR does it line up with the path inside the park. Why is that? And of course, as someone mentioned above, the crossing by figueroa is horrible, because someone decided that when building a rail line, we need to shrink sidewalks and widen roads. What!?
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Post by James Fujita on May 17, 2011 18:41:44 GMT -8
My main complain with the fencing in the area is that the main crossing does NOT line up with the USC corridor NOR does it line up with the path inside the park. Why is that? To the best of my knowledge, the two paths have never lined up: The Exposition Park path perfectly lines up the rose garden with the back entrance to the museum, but it doesn't line up with anything outside the park. Trousdale comes in at an odd angle to Exposition Boulevard (it's roughly the same angle as the streets to the north of USC and the same angle as Figueroa), and the two paths were never designed to meet from the very beginning. Add to that the underground trench as Expo Rail turns the corner, and that makes it hard to make the crossing meet both USC and Expo Park very well.
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Post by LAofAnaheim on May 17, 2011 19:29:58 GMT -8
And of course, as someone mentioned above, the crossing by figueroa is horrible, because someone decided that when building a rail line, we need to shrink sidewalks and widen roads. What!? Yeah, apparently it's "traffic mitigation", which, in itself, is a fallacy. Making a road bigger just allows for more car space. It's like we expand rail lines to increase ridership, isn't it the same ideology when you widen roads/freeways? Hence I chuckle when I hear that a widening will "reduce traffic". No, you are just making more room for more cars. Flower street has now been widened to 3 lanes south of Washington to Jefferson due to the Expo Line as well. Un f'n believable.
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Post by carter on May 18, 2011 9:30:45 GMT -8
And of course, as someone mentioned above, the crossing by figueroa is horrible, because someone decided that when building a rail line, we need to shrink sidewalks and widen roads. What!? Watch out fellas, because IIRC the plan is to do the same thing on Overland to mitigate traffic. They'll shave off some of the parkway and make it three lanes in each direction, which of course would do nothing to solve congestion in the long run, but merely tempt more people to drive through the area. Time to start agitating for bike lanes and other traffic mitigation measures, otherwise it's one step forward and one step back.
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Post by darrell on May 19, 2011 9:26:59 GMT -8
Photo last night of a gleaming three-car Expo train with bored security guard...
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Post by Justin Walker on May 19, 2011 9:38:17 GMT -8
Photo last night of a gleaming three-car Expo train with bored security guard... I wonder when they've been sneaking these cars out to the Expo Line. When I passed that location on Tuesday, only two cars were parked there.
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Post by bobdavis on May 19, 2011 12:27:11 GMT -8
Three cars! This is definitely a step upward in the testing program. It looks like 231 (the original Expo test car) is closest to the camera. Anyone note the numbers of the other two? Extra points if one is 238 (the first test car on the Gold Line) or 301 or 302 (the cars originally designed for "automated" operation on the Green Line.
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Post by Gokhan on May 19, 2011 12:43:59 GMT -8
Aha! Someone needs to get out there and shoot videos of three-car trains.
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Post by darrell on May 19, 2011 18:29:06 GMT -8
Three cars! This is definitely a step upward in the testing program. It looks like 231 (the original Expo test car) is closest to the camera. Anyone note the numbers of the other two? Extra points if one is 238 (the first test car on the Gold Line) or 301 or 302 (the cars originally designed for "automated" operation on the Green Line. Yes, the closest car is 231. The middle car is 249, and the far car is 233 (from zooming in on my original photos).
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Post by bobdavis on May 19, 2011 20:02:39 GMT -8
Thanks for the update--I've ridden all three on the Gold Line.
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Post by thanks4goingmetro on May 20, 2011 15:03:43 GMT -8
Nice! Shot of that 3 car train non-action. When will we see some actual train testing, as it trains sailing down the tracks to anywhere? Or even flashing lights and gates going down?
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Post by Gokhan on May 21, 2011 13:05:11 GMT -8
Here are day shots from yesterday of the three-eyed monster parked immediately east of Watt Way, west of Trousdale. This thing is now huge and it's hard to miss. LOL
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Post by metrocenter on May 22, 2011 17:10:19 GMT -8
On Friday I drove part of the route, hoping to snap some interesting pictures. But really there was nothing worth photographing. Stations looked the same. Flower/Washington was still closed. Nothing notable, other than a bit more foliage. So I stopped at Chano's for a burrito and went home.
It's like they say: a watched pot never boils. So to avoid frustration, I'm going to stop watching this project for awhile. This is what I had to do with the Eastside Gold Line project, when it kept getting delayed.
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Post by Gokhan on May 22, 2011 19:44:07 GMT -8
Supposedly they will finish everything except train testing on June 15. It's hard to believe though.
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adamv
Junior Member
Posts: 51
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Post by adamv on May 22, 2011 22:52:05 GMT -8
Supposedly they will finish everything except train testing on June 15. It's hard to believe though. Mostly, I just pass the La Brea station and marvel at the sisyphus-like task of keeping that structure graffiti free. Fresh tags on every pillar today. They might as well break down now, and just have someone muralize the whole thing.
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K 22
Full Member
Posts: 117
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Post by K 22 on May 23, 2011 7:36:03 GMT -8
Here are day shots from yesterday of the three-eyed monster parked immediately east of Watt Way, west of Trousdale. This thing is now huge and it's hard to miss. LOL This shot is fantastic. The train just seems to belong there. It fits in very well.
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Post by carter on May 23, 2011 8:22:16 GMT -8
Supposedly they will finish everything except train testing on June 15. It's hard to believe though. Mostly, I just pass the La Brea station and marvel at the sisyphus-like task of keeping that structure graffiti free. Fresh tags on every pillar today. They might as well break down now, and just have someone muralize the whole thing. How about security cameras?
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Post by Gokhan on May 23, 2011 13:14:16 GMT -8
Apparently they will do night train testing this evening, 5 - 10 pm, between Vermont Avenue and Culver City.
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Post by thanks4goingmetro on May 23, 2011 14:02:12 GMT -8
It's going to be glorious seeing that three car Siemens pull into LaCienega Station tonight.
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Post by Gokhan on May 23, 2011 15:09:36 GMT -8
Well, it's almost time for the picture takers to head there.
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Post by carter on May 23, 2011 15:14:19 GMT -8
Well, it's almost time for the picture takers to head there. I can't make it myself. Take lots of good ones, folks.
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Post by jamesinclair on May 23, 2011 15:33:27 GMT -8
Supposedly they will finish everything except train testing on June 15. It's hard to believe though. Mostly, I just pass the La Brea station and marvel at the sisyphus-like task of keeping that structure graffiti free. Fresh tags on every pillar today. They might as well break down now, and just have someone muralize the whole thing. I think 3 cops + paddy wagon can do the trick
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Post by LAofAnaheim on May 23, 2011 22:47:40 GMT -8
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Post by thanks4goingmetro on May 24, 2011 2:38:21 GMT -8
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