|
Post by Philip on Mar 2, 2012 1:33:10 GMT -8
What's worse is that the incompetence of this project will only make it harder for the public to believe that Metro projects aren't some kind of political boondoggle (which is tough when you have a line that goes $250 million+ over budget). On the bright side, it looks like my prediction for an opening on August 15, 2012 is looking to be the closest guess for revenue service.
|
|
|
Post by matthewb on Mar 2, 2012 1:59:33 GMT -8
|
|
|
Post by jamesinclair on Mar 2, 2012 2:36:57 GMT -8
We need to bring back the stocks and tomatos. Public shaming may not open the line faster, but it will be more respectful than how the officials have treated the transit riding public.
|
|
|
Post by Gokhan on Mar 2, 2012 8:34:42 GMT -8
Festival of Books is only for two days and hardly matters. An opening to Culver City in May would be wonderful, much better than an opening to La Cienega in April.
If the line can't open to Culver City before the end of July, it would be really, really bad, as they would lose another academic year at USC.
|
|
|
Post by metrocenter on Mar 2, 2012 8:48:31 GMT -8
Well, if there was ever any silver lining, its the fact that the line will open to Culver City instead of Expo/La Cienega, which is truly a "nowhere destination". Yes, if it ever opens. After all the delays, opening to La Cienega would be a very bad idea.
|
|
|
Post by LAofAnaheim on Mar 2, 2012 8:56:07 GMT -8
Well, if there was ever any silver lining, its the fact that the line will open to Culver City instead of Expo/La Cienega, which is truly a "nowhere destination". Yes, if it ever opens. After all the delays, opening to La Cienega would be a very bad idea. Saying if it ever opens is impossible. Remember in 1998 when voters stopped subway drilling funding and left the Red Line in limbo? Or when the funding wasn't available to connect the Blue Line to Gold Line (i.e. the original Pasadena Blue Lien extension?) Didn't the Gold Line and Red Line eventually open? The train WILL open due to its significant progress. That's not a question.
|
|
|
Post by metrocenter on Mar 2, 2012 9:18:29 GMT -8
Saying if it ever opens is impossible. * sarcasm*
|
|
|
Post by rubbertoe on Mar 2, 2012 9:41:30 GMT -8
Yes, if it ever opens. After all the delays, opening to La Cienega would be a very bad idea. Saying if it ever opens is impossible. Remember in 1998 when voters stopped subway drilling funding and left the Red Line in limbo? Or when the funding wasn't available to connect the Blue Line to Gold Line (i.e. the original Pasadena Blue Lien extension?) Didn't the Gold Line and Red Line eventually open? The train WILL open due to its significant progress. That's not a question. While you would think thats it's a certainty that the line will open, recent history doesn't provide any concrete evidence that this is indeed an absolute true conclusion. Remember, there was information discussed on this board way back in December, to the effect that there were problems with the junction. The curbed article states the following: Construction Authority CEO Rick Thorpe said "I think optimistically we're a few days away in solving [the Blue Line signal issue].")So, back in December the CEO said that optimistically the issue was about to be solved. You don't say things like that unless you actually "understand" what the problem is, because to fix a problem you need to understand what the problem is. Pretty simple. The fact that we are now 3 months later in March, and the junction is still not working, either shows that: 1) the CEO really didn't understand what was going on back in December, or 2) the technical people reporting to him were not telling him the whole story. The curbed story then goes on to say that: " Littman would not elaborate on the signal issues." I don't get this at all. What does withholding information from the public accomplish? Aren't we the people paying for this expensive infrastructure investment that is sitting idle for months on end with no opening date in sight? If they were aware of a problem in December, and weren't able to fix it in 3 months, what rationale basis is there to believe that they are going to be able to fix the problem now? If you are in over your head, you get help figuring things out. This isn't rocket science. If they couldn't figure it out in a couple weeks back in December, they should have brought in an outside consultant who could figure it out. Having the entire $750 million light rail line sitting idle for an indefinite period is absolutely unacceptable. That someone isn't demanding to know what is going on and making it public is an additional outrage. IMHO. RT
|
|
|
Post by simonla on Mar 2, 2012 10:28:29 GMT -8
A commenter on Curbed said that when the Expo Line is abandoned, we can at least turn the elevated portions into a High Line-like park. Funny, yet sad.
|
|
|
Post by LAofAnaheim on Mar 2, 2012 10:54:29 GMT -8
Saying if it ever opens is impossible. Remember in 1998 when voters stopped subway drilling funding and left the Red Line in limbo? Or when the funding wasn't available to connect the Blue Line to Gold Line (i.e. the original Pasadena Blue Lien extension?) Didn't the Gold Line and Red Line eventually open? The train WILL open due to its significant progress. That's not a question. While you would think thats it's a certainty that the line will open, recent history doesn't provide any concrete evidence that this is indeed an absolute true conclusion. Remember, there was information discussed on this board way back in December, to the effect that there were problems with the junction. The curbed article states the following: Construction Authority CEO Rick Thorpe said "I think optimistically we're a few days away in solving [the Blue Line signal issue].")Please do tell of an example where a rail line was 95% done and was never opened. I can give you the flip side...Red Line was still completed to North Hollywood after Prop A was passed to ban local funding for tunneling and the federal subway drilling ban. Gold Line was still completed even after the debacle as well. But, please, let me know of a situation where 95% of the line was done and still never opened. I just cannot think of one example.....
|
|
|
Post by Gokhan on Mar 2, 2012 10:58:40 GMT -8
I think the best approach would be to spend some money and get a team of best experts on train signaling systems from all over US and the world. They could solve the problem in a few days.
But the approach by Expo Authority has always been that we will never spend any extra money unless it's absolutely necessary and the contractor should spend that the money if they want to. At the end of the day, Expo Authority always loses and they end up spending millions of dollars instead of a few hundred thousand.
Perhaps part of the reason why the junction is taking so long to fix is because Metro doesn't want to open the line to La Cienega. The problems with the junction could be nothing but bluffing -- a decoy aimed at public and the politicians -- after all.
|
|
|
Post by rubbertoe on Mar 2, 2012 12:31:44 GMT -8
Please do tell of an example where a rail line was 95% done and was never opened. I just cannot think of one example..... The Naples tram to San Paolo stadium was built (in 1990) and sat unused for a decade (as of 2002) due to poor construction, official corruption and bribes. The line was supposed to open around 2007. Not sure if it is currently operating or not: ac-support.europe.umuc.edu/~jmatthew/naples/METROtable.htmlI can certainly appreciate your point, given that rails in the ground represent something that would be quite stupid to turn back on once it is nearly done. Don't underestimate what gross incompetence can lead to though... Outside of the rail arena, there are too many examples to even begin listing. Generally government initiated software projects that are worked on for years, only to be finally cancelled after it is discovered that either nothing had actually been accomplished, or the cost to finish it was way beyond the allowable budget, or the system would have been obsolete from day 1 even if it were finished. Expo Phase 1 doesn't appear to be falling into any of those categories, as long as it doesn't rain too hard RT
|
|
|
Post by Gokhan on Mar 2, 2012 12:45:42 GMT -8
Please do tell of an example where a rail line was 95% done and was never opened. I just cannot think of one example..... The Naples tram to San Paolo stadium was built (in 1990) and sat unused for a decade (as of 2002) due to poor construction, official corruption and bribes. The line was supposed to open around 2007. Not sure if it is currently operating or not: ac-support.europe.umuc.edu/~jmatthew/naples/METROtable.htmlI can certainly appreciate your point, given that rails in the ground represent something that would be quite stupid to turn back on once it is nearly done. Don't underestimate what gross incompetence can lead to though... Outside of the rail arena, there are too many examples to even begin listing. Generally government initiated software projects that are worked on for years, only to be finally cancelled after it is discovered that either nothing had actually been accomplished, or the cost to finish it was way beyond the allowable budget, or the system would have been obsolete from day 1 even if it were finished. Expo Phase 1 doesn't appear to be falling into any of those categories, as long as it doesn't rain too hard RT Expo won't be canceled unless World War III erupts or there is a Magnitude 8 earthquake in Los Angeles, which will tear down the line completely. Nevertheless, let me give another example of a public project that was canceled due to bad PR: Superconducting Super Collider (canceled by the Republicans after the cost rose to $14 billion from the original $4 billion)
|
|
|
Post by erict on Mar 2, 2012 14:44:53 GMT -8
Perhaps part of the reason why the junction is taking so long to fix is because Metro doesn't want to open the line to La Cienega. The problems with the junction could be nothing but bluffing -- a decoy aimed at public and the politicians -- after all. I think this is the actual case, they are trying to save some $$ by not opening the line until it is complete.
|
|
|
Post by Gokhan on Mar 2, 2012 15:25:55 GMT -8
Perhaps part of the reason why the junction is taking so long to fix is because Metro doesn't want to open the line to La Cienega. The problems with the junction could be nothing but bluffing -- a decoy aimed at public and the politicians -- after all. I think this is the actual case, they are trying to save some $$ by not opening the line until it is complete. It would complicate the testing too.
|
|
|
Post by wad on Mar 3, 2012 4:04:33 GMT -8
Please do tell of an example where a rail line was 95% done and was never opened. Cincinnati's subway tunnels.
|
|
|
Post by Alexis Kasperavičius on Mar 3, 2012 7:45:25 GMT -8
Two systems by the same design firm: Cincinnati (on top) and Boston with an almost identical style. Cincinnati ran out of money near the end and could never get the political will to finish it. It's not incompetence per se, it's politics. Don't ever assume it can't happen here...
|
|
|
Post by Gokhan on Mar 3, 2012 11:58:29 GMT -8
^^ Interesting.
|
|
|
Post by Gokhan on Mar 3, 2012 12:01:04 GMT -8
Culver City train test runs start twelve days from today. Exciting... It looks like there is no need to first open the line to La Cienega any more.
|
|
|
Post by Gokhan on Mar 4, 2012 21:15:12 GMT -8
If the Culver City Station can open around May, it will be much better than the La Cienega Station opening in April. It will be a blessing.
If the La Cienega Station opened in April, LA Times, LA Weekly, etc. would attack the Expo Line ruthlessly: "Delayed for two years but going to nowhere."
I much rather prefer opening a fully functioning healthy line than one people will scorn from Day One.
|
|
|
Post by Gokhan on Mar 5, 2012 13:58:42 GMT -8
Interesting:
There was a fire truck with sirens and lights heading eastbound on Exposition Blvd. At the same point, there was a Nippon - Sharyo train heading eastbound just west of Exposition and Rodeo Boulevards (Gramercy Place). The "Train" signal was flashing and the fire truck did not run the red light and waited for the train to pass. After the train passed, the fire truck ran the red light.
|
|
|
Post by Gokhan on Mar 5, 2012 14:05:41 GMT -8
Interesting: There was a fire truck with sirens and lights heading eastbound on Exposition Blvd. At the same point, there was a Nippon - Sharyo train heading eastbound just west of Exposition and Rodeo Boulevards (Gramercy Place). The "Train" signal was flashing and the fire truck did not run the red light and waited for the train to pass. After the train passed, the fire truck ran the red light. Hm, I wonder what would happen with a poorly trained fire-truck driver who doesn't pay attention to the Train signal... You can't really see the train when it is coming from behind you, which is what the configuration is at this very oblique crossing.
|
|
|
Post by rubbertoe on Mar 6, 2012 7:14:39 GMT -8
The LAUSD parking lot at Farmdale was paved yesterday. See Dwight's photos on Flicrk for details. Anybody know when they are going to pave the Culver City lot? That might be worth checking out.
RT
|
|
|
Post by matthewb on Mar 6, 2012 8:59:55 GMT -8
|
|
|
Post by Gokhan on Mar 6, 2012 12:34:30 GMT -8
The slowest part of the construction at Farmdale is the automatic train protection (ATP) and train signals, which is at the small building just east of the crossing. It will be a while until it finishes.
They still have to do some concrete construction at the Culver City Station plaza. Parking lot is easy I think -- just some asphalt pavement.
|
|
|
Post by Gokhan on Mar 7, 2012 12:46:41 GMT -8
LAofAnaheim's hi-rail truck has finally moved. It turned out that it was there for installing the Culver City Station artwork, which has now been installed using the crane on the truck. The Culver City Station is now almost ready for the train test runs, which are being planned to start around March 16.
This Saturday they will repave National Boulevard at Washington Boulevard, which will then look like a brand-new environment. It has been a war zone surrounded with K rails. It will look much, much different on Sunday. It will be interesting to see.
Elsewhere, they are working on the landscaping improvements and Farmdale Station.
|
|
|
Post by jamesinclair on Mar 7, 2012 13:26:33 GMT -8
Less art, more revenue service please.
|
|
|
Post by rajacobs on Mar 7, 2012 13:34:06 GMT -8
Regarding the Blue Line/ Expo Line junction, Steve Hymon wrote today on thesource.metro.net: The junction has to be able to handle trains running in both directions at very close intervals; the Blue Line already is running every six minutes during peak hours. Needless to say, that junction needs to work flawlessly for reasons of both efficiency and safety. I know a lot of people are asking when the Expo Line will open. The short answer: No date has been set yet as testing of the line and the Automatic Train Protection system at the junction continues. To repeat: It can’t just work great. It has to work flawlessly.
thesource.metro.net/2012/03/07/on-transportation-march-7-column/#more-37706
|
|
|
Post by rajacobs on Mar 7, 2012 13:40:59 GMT -8
Regarding the bikepath between Jefferson and National/Washington, since the bikepath is on the north side of the tracks with no tunnels to the south, efficient acces to the Hayden track is denied. The only alternative from the east is to exit the bike path at Jefferson and proceed along National or the sidewalk (?!) west, and from the west to proceed along the sidewalk or city streets south of Washington. I would love to have seen a tunnel at the Media Tower. Hymon notes: ...it’s nice to see some progress being made on the bike path running on the north side of the tracks in Culver City. The path should offer an easy way for areas residents and workers to reach both the Venice/Robertson and La Cienega stations.
thesource.metro.net/2012/03/07/on-transportation-march-7-column/#more-37706
|
|
|
Post by bluelineshawn on Mar 7, 2012 16:25:12 GMT -8
That part is just silly. Name one thing that runs flawlessly on Metro. Nothing does. He's trying to trivialize the difficulties by implying that it works really well when it obviously does not even work acceptably.
|
|