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Post by bluelineshawn on Mar 19, 2012 13:36:03 GMT -8
Nice video of simultaneous northbound and southbound Expo trains at the junction! As you know, the tricky situation is when there is the simultaneous arriving at the junction of a northbound Expo train +a southbound Blue Line train or/and a northbound Blue Line train (two or three trains, with the nortbound Expo train crossing the track of one or two Blue Line trains)
Therefore, I would like to see reports or videos of the above.Do they have coordination of the trains further down the line? If so, this is exactly the kind of situation they would purposefully avoid. It's much better for a blue line train to spend a little bit more time at Grand or Pico, and/or for an expo line train to dwell a bit longer at 23rd street. Yeah that'd be something that they would try and avoid. Maybe not so much for the junction but because they can't run two NB trains too close and turn them at 7th/metro. But I can see it happening since currently the blue line trains are scheduled to meet at the junction. Having a NB expo train also show up will certainly happen from time to time. What I suspect they will do is use the signals to hold trains just like everywhere else in the world.
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Post by Gokhan on Mar 19, 2012 13:47:59 GMT -8
Well, apparently CPUC approved the junction on Friday, which means that the line could technically open as early as on Sunday, April 15, 2012, after the FTA-required four-week prerevenue operation, which started on Sunday, March 18, and is currently taking place, is completed. I will let you know if I find out more. Source? That was an indirect Metro source. I just asked Rick about it and will pass the info when he replies.
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Post by Gokhan on Mar 19, 2012 15:12:05 GMT -8
By the way, Rick told me that they are currently doing the "systems safety verification reports" at the Culver City Station and they are slightly behind schedule (March 15 expected completion) in doing this so that the trains could start running there. He thinks that the orange coil of interduct for the communications cables on the hi-rail truck on the aerial structure may be for Farmdale and only being stored there. He is also saying that some late changes to the fire life-safety equipment have happened and as a result the rest of the work will be finished in May or perhaps slightly later, which I personally translate as putting the expected opening day of the Culver City Station in ... May or perhaps slightly later.
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Post by Gokhan on Mar 19, 2012 16:14:26 GMT -8
Rick just told me that the junction has not been certified by CPUC yet but they hope it will be by the end of the week.
He is also saying that they are still working out other issues too.
I guess an April 15, 2012, opening is now becoming unrealistic. I doubt they would have a grand-opening day during the Festival of Books, which is the following weekend, either.
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Post by bluelineshawn on Mar 19, 2012 17:05:57 GMT -8
I just spent an hour watching trains at the junction and 7th/metro and the blue line schedule has really taken a hit. Like I had said years ago trains are really bunching. Some are 3 minutes apart and then there can be 8-12minute gaps for several trains in a row. Some trains are packed and others relatively empty. But it's exciting to see!
And Expo trains are not running every 12 min during rush hour. They just don't have enough trains. Perhaps this is one of those "other issues"?
Fwiw I'm still hearing mid-April but perhaps not even a Sunday (which is hard to believe). I think that metro is really pushing to make things happen (safely of course).
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Post by Gokhan on Mar 19, 2012 17:30:54 GMT -8
So, what is the platform arrangement? Separate for departures and arrivals? Separate for Expo and Blue?
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Post by bluelineshawn on Mar 19, 2012 18:21:41 GMT -8
So, what is the platform arrangement? Separate for departures and arrivals? Separate for Expo and Blue? Nope. Everyone will exit on platform 1 and everyone will board on platform 2. Just like the blue line used to operate during rush hour for a few years until last year. The difference is that will be all the time now and not just rush hour.
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Post by bluelineshawn on Mar 19, 2012 18:50:55 GMT -8
Also regarding what happens when NB expo trains meet SB blue line trains at the junction, there are signals about 50 meters on either side of Washington that hold the trains and the train dispatcher must decide which one goes first. Today when it happened, it was the blue line that went first even though the Expo train got there slightly ahead. I don't know if this is done from the new "tower" inside of 7th/metro or at the RCC. There was a guy in the tower and he has lots of computer equipment and monitors so he must be doing something.
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Post by Gokhan on Mar 19, 2012 21:21:24 GMT -8
Thanks for the nice reports, Shawn!
It sounds like the junction is being controlled manually, as Rick said.
I think the guy at 7th/Metro is doing the manual switching of the junction.
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Post by Gokhan on Mar 19, 2012 21:21:45 GMT -8
So, what is the platform arrangement? Separate for departures and arrivals? Separate for Expo and Blue? Nope. Everyone will exit on platform 1 and everyone will board on platform 2. Just like the blue line used to operate during rush hour for a few years until last year. The difference is that will be all the time now and not just rush hour. Nice, that's how I wanted it to be!
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Post by Gokhan on Mar 20, 2012 12:49:29 GMT -8
Prerevenue operation was in full force today, they now seem to be running only three-car trains, which makes sense as some of them run on the Blue Line as well. I saw two three-car Nippon Sharyo's and one three-car Siemens coming from the opposition direction in ten minutes while I was driving.
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Post by Gokhan on Mar 20, 2012 12:51:12 GMT -8
Finally I got a video clip of a westbound train at the Exposition Boulevard / Rodeo Boulevard / Gramercy Place oblique rail crossing, which terrifies metrocenter, LAofAnaheim, and others: ... Heck, the crossing I fear the most (Expo/Rodeo, LOL) is more confusing than this would be. ... ... I'll make a bold prediction, but I wouldn't be surprised if a dangerous car-train accident happens at Exposition-Rodeo. That looks to be a dangerous cross section with the road split. Out of all the sections that need crossing arms, that should be the highest priority. If you don't know what I'm talking about, I suggest you drive to Exposition/Rodeo west of Vermont and you'll see what I mean. metrocenter, LAofAnaheim, and others, any comments?
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Post by James Fujita on Mar 20, 2012 17:10:32 GMT -8
Let's see a video where you're in the first car at the crossing, rather than behind it.
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Post by Gokhan on Mar 20, 2012 17:17:40 GMT -8
Let's see a video where you're in the first car at the crossing, rather than behind it. LOL Yes, that's what I want, too. Although, I would probably be 10 yards behind the WAIT HERE line if I saw the train coming.
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Post by tobias087 on Mar 20, 2012 22:43:59 GMT -8
I think that crossing is going to be the source of many accidents in years to come
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Post by jamesinclair on Mar 20, 2012 23:05:00 GMT -8
Today when it happened, it was the blue line that went first even though the Expo train got there slightly ahead. In Boston, order of trains at junction depends on 1) Ridership of line 2) Necessary adjustments needed in schedules. So if blue is running late, it would be allowed through first.But ordinarily, expo would go first as it carries more people. Of course, in Boston theres a man in a booth pushing a button. No idea how an automated system could respond to things like that.
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Post by matthewb on Mar 21, 2012 2:40:53 GMT -8
Today when it happened, it was the blue line that went first even though the Expo train got there slightly ahead. In Boston, order of trains at junction depends on 1) Ridership of line 2) Necessary adjustments needed in schedules. So if blue is running late, it would be allowed through first.But ordinarily, expo would go first as it carries more people. Of course, in Boston theres a man in a booth pushing a button. No idea how an automated system could respond to things like that. At its core, it's a well studied problem. It doesn't differ in principle from a process scheduler on your computer, or a bank of elevators for that matter. I can imagine them opting for a simpler solution, though, just because it's one less thing to screw up.
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Post by Gokhan on Mar 21, 2012 17:38:26 GMT -8
Fun read. Complete e-news here.
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Post by bluelineshawn on Mar 21, 2012 18:30:53 GMT -8
Cool article!
Anyone know what's going on with the small overnight train yard that was supposed to be built at Washington and Long Beach Ave? It looks like nothing has been done. Did they decide to instead store all of the trains in the blue line yard?
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Post by transitfan on Mar 22, 2012 8:23:16 GMT -8
Cool article! Anyone know what's going on with the small overnight train yard that was supposed to be built at Washington and Long Beach Ave? It looks like nothing has been done. Did they decide to instead store all of the trains in the blue line yard? Hmm, interesting. With all the hoopla about when the line will open, that's kinda been forgotten about (at least on this board, I assume that MTA hasn't forgotten about it) I guess they will start off running out of the Blue Line yard (Division 11). The Expo Line will be based there officially until the Santa Monica yard opens with phase 2. There's no reason they can't run Expo trains from Div. 11, the problem will be the long deadhead. Maybe they can stage a couple of trains at Culver City station (whether the line opens from there or from La Cienega) and maybe on the tail tracks at 7th St/Metro Center. I suspect some of the trains may pull out from Div. 11 as a Blue Line train, operate to 7MC, then switch to an Expo Line for the rest of the day, but who knows what MTA's plans are.
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Post by Gokhan on Mar 22, 2012 9:48:34 GMT -8
Cool article! Anyone know what's going on with the small overnight train yard that was supposed to be built at Washington and Long Beach Ave? It looks like nothing has been done. Did they decide to instead store all of the trains in the blue line yard? Hmm, interesting. With all the hoopla about when the line will open, that's kinda been forgotten about (at least on this board, I assume that MTA hasn't forgotten about it) I guess they will start off running out of the Blue Line yard (Division 11). The Expo Line will be based there officially until the Santa Monica yard opens with phase 2. There's no reason they can't run Expo trains from Div. 11, the problem will be the long deadhead. Maybe they can stage a couple of trains at Culver City station (whether the line opens from there or from La Cienega) and maybe on the tail tracks at 7th St/Metro Center. I suspect some of the trains may pull out from Div. 11 as a Blue Line train, operate to 7MC, then switch to an Expo Line for the rest of the day, but who knows what MTA's plans are. I think the storage yard at the tail tracks just north of Washington Blvd and Long Beach Ave was completely canceled and they will use Division 11 for all Expo Line train storage. Although, there is still storage space for a single train there I think. They need the tail tracks at 7th/Metro to turn the trains around, as they use different platforms for departures and arrivals. I don't know if there is space for storage there north of the switch. They would need at least 600 ft of track north of the switch if they need to store trains there. There is obviously no place to store trains in Culver City, as train testing there will begin soon. Once Phase 2 opens, Expo will have its own yard at Stewart and Exposition in Santa Monica for storage and basic maintenance.
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Post by Transit Coalition on Mar 22, 2012 10:10:03 GMT -8
Official Announcement:
Arthur T. Leahy, Metro CEO just announced that Full Pre-Revenue service will start Sunday, March 25, 2012. The opening date is still to be determined, but will be announced next week. [/color]
Bart! @ the Metro Board Meeting.
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Post by Gokhan on Mar 22, 2012 10:27:42 GMT -8
Well, let's hear more details. For the Gold Line Eastside Extension, the opening day was exactly six weeks after the start of the "full" prerevenue operation.
It would suck if they open the La Cienega Station on May 6 and then open the Culver City Station on June 3.
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Post by Gokhan on Mar 22, 2012 11:15:23 GMT -8
Well, let's hear more details. For the Gold Line Eastside Extension, the opening day was exactly six weeks after the start of the "full" prerevenue operation. It would suck if they open the La Cienega Station on May 6 and then open the Culver City Station on June 3. If they do a 12-week prerevenue operation with the Expo Line as they said before, this would put the opening date on June 17 and then the Culver City Station can open as well. Bart, did you get to talk to Art and ask him about the length of the prerevenue operation and Culver City Station?
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Post by Gokhan on Mar 23, 2012 9:42:36 GMT -8
Expo Line PR event involving politicians is currently taking place. They will probably announce the start of the prerevenue operation. There is a lot of security (sheriff deputies) along the line. The train will arrive at the La Cienega Station soon and there will be a TV-news coverage of the interviews and speeches that will take place there. At least the CBS news truck was there. Therefore, tune in to your local CBS channel tonight for the news. Meanwhile everyone's favorite station gets its grand pylons. LOL I am disappointed with the pace of the work at the Culver City Station. They are in fact using the orange cable on the hi-rail truck by the platform, as the coil is getting smaller. This work should have been finished 8 days ago. They are now putting lighting poles in the parking lot, which still needs to be paved.
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dane
Junior Member
Posts: 59
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Post by dane on Mar 23, 2012 9:55:40 GMT -8
AV says opening to public April 28!!!
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dane
Junior Member
Posts: 59
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Post by dane on Mar 23, 2012 9:58:57 GMT -8
That info is per official Metro twitter...
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Post by rubbertoe on Mar 23, 2012 10:00:04 GMT -8
AV says opening to public April 28!!! 2012? Sent from my DROID RAZR using ProBoards
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dane
Junior Member
Posts: 59
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Post by dane on Mar 23, 2012 10:00:32 GMT -8
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Post by rubbertoe on Mar 23, 2012 10:01:55 GMT -8
Story on the Source now.
Sent from my DROID RAZR using ProBoards
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